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Saithe
Caldari
Posted - 2010.09.21 10:19:00 - [391]
 

Not supported. This will kill my fun in empire space when I sit in my Basilisk repping random people fighting, waiting for them to shoot me. So that when they do, I can dock up immediately, change in to my Navy Megathron, undock, and lay waste to them.

TheWarpGhost
Posted - 2010.09.21 17:04:00 - [392]
 

Supported

Ronan Connor
Posted - 2010.09.27 19:32:00 - [393]
 

Edited by: Ronan Connor on 10/10/2010 12:14:41
Supported. Either be part of the opposing force or stay away. I mean common who would have "remote repped" Afghanistan and didnt expect to get aggro from the US?

Dav Varan
Posted - 2010.09.30 18:12:00 - [394]
 

Edited by: Dav Varan on 30/09/2010 19:34:24
I dont get an agression timer for activating a local rep why should remote rep give an agression timer ?

PvP should not be without risk.

Highsec wardec allready provide the safest PvP environment in game.

Easy assesment of enemy forces , Concord providing protection from non war targets.
No chance of getting hotdropped.
No chance of getting bubbled and podded.

Right now neutral RR is one of the few way a defender can turn the tide on an attacker in high sec.


Sorry but I can not support your "I want perfectly predictable PvP" proposal.

Repping is repping whether remote or local and should not give an agression flag.

I really hope ccp do not start designing PvP to accomadate the lowest common denominator the way they did with PvE.



Roland Deschaines
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.09.30 19:08:00 - [395]
 

Yep.

Namyri'el
Amarr
T.O.R.
Posted - 2010.09.30 23:02:00 - [396]
 


Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.10.01 06:54:00 - [397]
 

Edited by: Suitonia on 01/10/2010 06:54:35
Originally by: Dav Varan
Edited by: Dav Varan on 30/09/2010 19:34:24
I dont get an agression timer for activating a local rep why should remote rep give an agression timer ?

PvP should not be without risk.

Highsec wardec allready provide the safest PvP environment in game.

Easy assesment of enemy forces , Concord providing protection from non war targets.
No chance of getting hotdropped.
No chance of getting bubbled and podded.

Right now neutral RR is one of the few way a defender can turn the tide on an attacker in high sec.


Sorry but I can not support your "I want perfectly predictable PvP" proposal.

Repping is repping whether remote or local and should not give an agression flag.

I really hope ccp do not start designing PvP to accomadate the lowest common denominator the way they did with PvE.





Right now, not getting an aggression timer on remote repair is the single most risk-free thing in the game. It allows you to gain significant advantages without risking anything, and it's actually worse in 0.0 and lowsec (dock hugging capitals). There is nothing 'predictable' about it, you can still turn the tides by using neutral remote repair, you just need to do it in a ship that can tank your aggressors for 60 seconds, capable of fighting them back, or organise multiple neutral remote repair characters to keep themselves up.

I implore you to take a look at Dodixie undock for an hour, for quite possibly the best example in the game for how risk free, and how utterly brainless this is. Watch how slaved faction ships get remote repair from untanked Exequror/Guardian alts to bail them out when a canbait goes wrong, and someone actually tries to outplay them, I gurantee you almost every single time, a fight in Dodixie between two prominent PvP corps instantly become brainless stalemates as each side as multiple logistics repairing them.

With the proposed changes, you actually need to strategically plan the use of remote repair, instead of brainless, oh lol im dying alt+tab bull**** which is happening right now.

NetheranE
Posted - 2010.10.01 08:04:00 - [398]
 

Edited by: NetheranE on 01/10/2010 08:09:22
Honestly, this mechanic is a part of EVE. EVE is not a universe where you get to carebear yourself from PvE to PvP.

Remote rep as it is, turns the tide in any and all fights. You add the aggression timer, you wreck it for those who do for the heck of doing it. "OH-NOES! He isnt as honourable or as risky a player as i think he should be, NERF HIS PLAYSTYLE!" Even then, many people, especially those in dedicated high sec PvP corps, already have or will get multiple RR dedicted toons and pilots, and will therefore make your new fix obsolete. So what if you shoot my repper, I'll just get the other one to rep him. You still lose. Those who do it are playing a risk-free game, but why do you care? Everything you do in a game cannot have risks to it. What if they put scrams in every PvE mission? No more of that warp-out, rep/cap up, warp back in crap. Stand and fight those rats! What if we had BS rats warping around systems, or considerably threatening rat fleets randomly warping about systems, killing anything they come into lock range with. That would fix those macro miners!

Your propsed reasoning Suitonia, is that the current use of remote rep is not sophisticated enough (in essence). Honestly, if someone takes my can and it says 1v1, it is honoured, if an anonymous person reps either, I expect the opponent and me to de-aggress as the fight is no longer what we had aggreed to. If your idiot enough to not set a mutual aggrement and assume (which makes an ASS-out-of-U-and-ME) that its a 1v1 without rep or corp help, lose your ship and learn your lesson. This mechanic is only truly abused in 1v1s and canbaits.

Regardless of how brainless, or whatever you want to call it, anonymous RR is, Aggression Timers are intended for those who have DIRECTLY engaged in combat with another player within the bounds of CONCORD. If i rep someone fighting, i have not DIRECTLY aggressed and therefore should remain free to dock. I still get aggression, so the other player could simply fly over, bump my RR off station/gate, and proceed with destroying my RR ship. Considering logi ships go from 80-100mil, without fittings, killing that would be much more of an award than the guy using it about 60-70% of the time.

Particularily, I believe Suitonia's arguements of the lack of brains and "strategy" that surrounds the "abuse" of this mechanic are unfair. Just because people do not desire to risk losing ships they have worked hard to get, does not mean you just get to go about and nerf something because its not as noble or risky as what you do, is a terrible reason to do it.

You and a friend go play soccer (or football, my apologies, Canadian here), the idea coming from your friend "hey lets go play soccer!" You two arrive, set up some agreeable nets, and begin playing. Some random comes along and starts playing goalie in your friends net. "WTF OMG SO NOT FAIR, NO STRAT IN THAT!": this is your response. Do you run off to court to get this random's actions outlawed so that "no-more of this bull**** wrecks anyone else's competition", your proposal would be throw out before you got in. Go get your own goalie, or if you believe you can get away with it, beat the **** out his goalie.

These proposed changes will only force people to either slightly organise their RR (PM-hey if i get shot you rep me and vice versa?), or get more RR. Which in the end only really benefits CCP as they get more income through more pilots.

In the instance of what the OP posted about the WT baiting him, shoot the F'ing RR and bump it, when he jumps, turn and kick the other guy's ass. If you cant do that, dont engage.
Rather, just get your own RR and win anyways cause you can kill him. Takes an invited char only about 10 days to fly an Exequror with 3 Medium Remote Armor Repairer II, and the t2 cap mods to make it stable. That makes 11 days of usable free time before you should activate it (PLEX's ftw) and get in an Oneiros/Guardian.

NetheranE
Posted - 2010.10.01 08:23:00 - [399]
 

Originally by: Suitonia
Edited by: Suitonia on 01/10/2010 06:54:35
Originally by: Dav Varan
Edited by: Dav Varan on 30/09/2010 19:34:24
I dont get an agression timer for activating a local rep why should remote rep give an agression timer ?

PvP should not be without risk.

Highsec wardec allready provide the safest PvP environment in game.

Easy assesment of enemy forces , Concord providing protection from non war targets.
No chance of getting hotdropped.
No chance of getting bubbled and podded.

Right now neutral RR is one of the few way a defender can turn the tide on an attacker in high sec.


Sorry but I can not support your "I want perfectly predictable PvP" proposal.

Repping is repping whether remote or local and should not give an agression flag.

I really hope ccp do not start designing PvP to accomadate the lowest common denominator the way they did with PvE.





Right now, not getting an aggression timer on remote repair is the single most risk-free thing in the game. It allows you to gain significant advantages without risking anything, and it's actually worse in 0.0 and lowsec (dock hugging capitals). There is nothing 'predictable' about it, you can still turn the tides by using neutral remote repair, you just need to do it in a ship that can tank your aggressors for 60 seconds, capable of fighting them back, or organise multiple neutral remote repair characters to keep themselves up.

I implore you to take a look at Dodixie undock for an hour, for quite possibly the best example in the game for how risk free, and how utterly brainless this is. Watch how slaved faction ships get remote repair from untanked Exequror/Guardian alts to bail them out when a canbait goes wrong, and someone actually tries to outplay them, I gurantee you almost every single time, a fight in Dodixie between two prominent PvP corps instantly become brainless stalemates as each side as multiple logistics repairing them.

With the proposed changes, you actually need to strategically plan the use of remote repair, instead of brainless, oh lol im dying alt+tab bull**** which is happening right now.


BTW, your attempts of de-douchbaging Dodixie by, initally, getting into fights you were destined to lose, then when someone is nice enough to RR you so that you can start winning or coming even, you shoot them and bring CONCORD down on both of you, is so much more of an lowblow its almost not funny. However, your newest tactic of taking a fleet issue stabber (with what ISK?) and slamming around in an MWD bumping ANYONE that sits on the undock of Dodixie station is such a great way to go about it. Assmoving someone else's assmove doesnt make you a righteous crusader of good-will. It takes you down to their level, if not lower.
If you cannot live with this, there are thousands of other MMO's out there. Maybe Mortal Online, where ANYONE that leaves the town safezone can be killed by ANYONE else is more to your style. Regardless, being a superhero by going about taking justice into your own hands usually only works when you have superpowers. Like a GM. Let them make the decisions based on our opinions and discussion. Until then, the game is the way they believe it should be. Stop biatching, we're not here to do things your way, we're here to play EVE cause here the Universe is Ours.

Dav Varan
Posted - 2010.10.01 15:27:00 - [400]
 

Originally by: Suitonia
Edited by: Suitonia on 01/10/2010 06:54:35
Originally by: Dav Varan
Edited by: Dav Varan on 30/09/2010 19:34:24
I dont get an agression timer for activating a local rep why should remote rep give an agression timer ?

PvP should not be without risk.

Highsec wardec allready provide the safest PvP environment in game.

Easy assesment of enemy forces , Concord providing protection from non war targets.
No chance of getting hotdropped.
No chance of getting bubbled and podded.

Right now neutral RR is one of the few way a defender can turn the tide on an attacker in high sec.


Sorry but I can not support your "I want perfectly predictable PvP" proposal.

Repping is repping whether remote or local and should not give an agression flag.

I really hope ccp do not start designing PvP to accomadate the lowest common denominator the way they did with PvE.





Right now, not getting an aggression timer on remote repair is the single most risk-free thing in the game. It allows you to gain significant advantages without risking anything, and it's actually worse in 0.0 and lowsec (dock hugging capitals). There is nothing 'predictable' about it, you can still turn the tides by using neutral remote repair, you just need to do it in a ship that can tank your aggressors for 60 seconds, capable of fighting them back, or organise multiple neutral remote repair characters to keep themselves up.

I implore you to take a look at Dodixie undock for an hour, for quite possibly the best example in the game for how risk free, and how utterly brainless this is. Watch how slaved faction ships get remote repair from untanked Exequror/Guardian alts to bail them out when a canbait goes wrong, and someone actually tries to outplay them, I gurantee you almost every single time, a fight in Dodixie between two prominent PvP corps instantly become brainless stalemates as each side as multiple logistics repairing them.

With the proposed changes, you actually need to strategically plan the use of remote repair, instead of brainless, oh lol im dying alt+tab bull**** which is happening right now.



Yeah but designing PvP based on what happens at dodixie or jita is a bad idea.
This proposal would ruin the effectiveness of logi cruisers and spider tank setups game wide.

If there a problem outside dod its more to do with lame ass agression flagging rules rather than logi's
Remove aggression flagging for taking from cans ( end of problem ).

I pretty sure what you descibe is as annoying as hell , but at the end of the day the player is not commiting an agressive act.

Whether my reps come from a buddy or from a local fitted rep is irrelevant.

Imagine 2 domis ( rr ) fighting 2 domis ( local reps ) on a gate.

Under the proposed changes.

The local repped domi's can deagress and keep repping for 60 seconds till they can jump out.
The rr domi's cant deagress without switching off there repping.

Basically this proposal would screw over all legitimate uses of logi's and spider tanks and for what?

To make can-baiting an even safer form of predicatable PvP without risk of your target tricking you with a docked logicruiser.









Fragglewump
Posted - 2010.10.07 12:55:00 - [401]
 

gust give the neutral RR ship GCC if they rep someone at war, people pay ISK to be at war so if they want to be involved they should join the corp/alliance they want to help or just or just be able to watch.but hey this got taken to the CSM in 08 and 09 and its still the same **** so i don't think it will change ant time soon CCP wont want to lose money on alts.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Remote_repping_and_aggression_%28CSM%29
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Remote_repair_issues_%28CSM%29

NetheranE
Posted - 2010.10.08 06:08:00 - [402]
 

Originally by: Suitonia
Edited by: Suitonia on 01/10/2010 06:54:35
Originally by: Dav Varan
Edited by: Dav Varan on 30/09/2010 19:34:24
I dont get an agression timer for activating a local rep why should remote rep give an agression timer ?

PvP should not be without risk.

Highsec wardec allready provide the safest PvP environment in game.

Easy assesment of enemy forces , Concord providing protection from non war targets.
No chance of getting hotdropped.
No chance of getting bubbled and podded.

Right now neutral RR is one of the few way a defender can turn the tide on an attacker in high sec.


Sorry but I can not support your "I want perfectly predictable PvP" proposal.

Repping is repping whether remote or local and should not give an agression flag.

I really hope ccp do not start designing PvP to accomadate the lowest common denominator the way they did with PvE.





Right now, not getting an aggression timer on remote repair is the single most risk-free thing in the game. It allows you to gain significant advantages without risking anything, and it's actually worse in 0.0 and lowsec (dock hugging capitals). There is nothing 'predictable' about it, you can still turn the tides by using neutral remote repair, you just need to do it in a ship that can tank your aggressors for 60 seconds, capable of fighting them back, or organise multiple neutral remote repair characters to keep themselves up.

I implore you to take a look at Dodixie undock for an hour, for quite possibly the best example in the game for how risk free, and how utterly brainless this is. Watch how slaved faction ships get remote repair from untanked Exequror/Guardian alts to bail them out when a canbait goes wrong, and someone actually tries to outplay them, I gurantee you almost every single time, a fight in Dodixie between two prominent PvP corps instantly become brainless stalemates as each side as multiple logistics repairing them.

With the proposed changes, you actually need to strategically plan the use of remote repair, instead of brainless, oh lol im dying alt+tab bull**** which is happening right now.


I would like to openly inform you Suitonia that your attempts at "de***ging" Dod have been successful! I was in conversation with a pilot that lost his Scimitar to your righeous crusade of undocking in a t1 cruiser, getting into 1v1s, and when you recieved neutral RR, shooting your neutral RR pilots (this would end up giving her a GCC and transferred that to whoever was repping her, popping both their ships via CONCORD). This pilot lamented that your actions wrecked his interest and capacity to play EVE as he had lost his ship and so his capacity to earn ISK. He is now leaving and will most likely biomass his toon.
Great job at reducing the player count of the game we are each trying to enjoy in our own way.

Ned Black
Posted - 2010.10.08 10:16:00 - [403]
 

What should happen

1. Neutral RR reps an agressed wartarget
2. Neutral RR is clearly no longer neutral, so the previously neutral player gets a personal one sided wardec on their hands (meaning that he appears flasy read as if he stole something) for a week. During this week they other corp may kill the "Neutral" RR as many times as they like. If the other wardec ends the repper is still red blinky for the duration of the week.

If the repper does more repping during the week the week timer is reset.

Rickhart
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.26 18:22:00 - [404]
 

supported

Mister Eskimo
Posted - 2010.11.09 18:47:00 - [405]
 

I support some sort of change, as the current mechanic allows for extreme amounts of exploitation.

Station games indeed see the most egregious use of neutral RR ***giness, but even alts in non-allied corps should suffer some sort of prolonged consequence.

I think at the very least the 1m redock timer should be in place. This would eliminate a vast majority of the opportunistic station gankers, as they are spineless in general and would not engage in such behavior if there was actual risk of them getting their logistic ship popped.

Kwashi
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
Posted - 2010.11.11 06:37:00 - [406]
 

Edited by: Kwashi on 11/11/2010 06:37:42
The bizarre thing is that if the ship being repaired shoots a neutral or a stargate, CONCORD will kill the remote repper ship too.

So the aggression consequence chain is already there and recognized by NPCs. Seems like it would be easy to apply that to gates and stations

The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2010.11.11 09:59:00 - [407]
 

Originally by: NetheranE
I would like to openly inform you Suitonia that your attempts at "de***ging" Dod have been successful! I was in conversation with a pilot that lost his Scimitar to your righeous crusade of undocking in a t1 cruiser, getting into 1v1s, and when you recieved neutral RR, shooting your neutral RR pilots (this would end up giving her a GCC and transferred that to whoever was repping her, popping both their ships via CONCORD). This pilot lamented that your actions wrecked his interest and capacity to play EVE as he had lost his ship and so his capacity to earn ISK. He is now leaving and will most likely biomass his toon.
Great job at reducing the player count of the game we are each trying to enjoy in our own way.


Ask him if I can have his stuff Wink

BTW bump for my thread Laughing


Bubbled
Posted - 2010.11.11 13:50:00 - [408]
 

supported

Maylin Li
Caldari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.11.11 14:23:00 - [409]
 

Originally by: Mister Eskimo
I support some sort of change, as the current mechanic allows for extreme amounts of exploitation.

Station games indeed see the most egregious use of neutral RR ***giness, but even alts in non-allied corps should suffer some sort of prolonged consequence.

I think at the very least the 1m redock timer should be in place. This would eliminate a vast majority of the opportunistic station gankers, as they are spineless in general and would not engage in such behavior if there was actual risk of them getting their logistic ship popped.

Jane Jacobs
Posted - 2010.11.11 16:25:00 - [410]
 

Not supported.
This is the only reprieve from a failing war dec system that needs an overhaul.
War decs are out of hand and need to be changed.
The cost of war dec is too little. It is too easy to declare war against anybody for any reason, and most of the time, the reason is to extort ransom.

The Neutral/Alt remote repping is the last line of defense against griefers. You can not change this without changing the war-dec system and putting more restrictions on declaring war.

Otherwise, just line everyone up in a row like ducks and start picking them off. I mean really how patheticly easy do you want it?
You dont want pvp, all you want are easy targets and easy money through ransoms.

Suggested Fix: 1. stop pvp'ing in empire
2. stop playing station games

Station games are nothing more than a dps race...unless you have a remote repper. Bring a RR into the picture and you actually have to think about tactics and come up with methods to counter the counter attack. Without the neutral RR the agressors (the war-dec griefers) will always win. I assume thats what you want anyway. Easy victims.

Strongly NOT supported. The war-dec system needs to be fixed.

The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2010.11.12 02:56:00 - [411]
 

Originally by: Jane Jacobs
SadSadSadSadSadSadSadSad



You already have a thread to stand on your soap box about the war dec system ...

Please get out of this one to cry your tears ...


Double Dee
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.11.12 07:52:00 - [412]
 

Originally by: The PitBoss
Originally by: Jane Jacobs
SadSadSadSadSadSadSadSad



You already have a thread to stand on your soap box about the war dec system ...

Please get out of this one to cry your tears ...




you weak pathetic little griefer. she has a right to an opinion. just because she doesn't agree with your idea you say she is crying. all you do is exploit alts and play station games.

when have you ever risked anything?!

The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2010.11.12 10:04:00 - [413]
 

Edited by: The PitBoss on 12/11/2010 10:11:41

Originally by: Double Dee
when have you ever risked anything?!


The moment I left my NPC corp ... Leave yours .. then talk to me Wink

EDIT: I really meant post with your main .. not your Cyno Alt ... then talk to me




Double Dee
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.11.12 10:15:00 - [414]
 

Originally by: The PitBoss
Edited by: The PitBoss on 12/11/2010 10:05:09

Originally by: Double Dee
when have you ever risked anything?!


The moment I left my NPC corp ... Leave yours .. then talk to me Wink






my main is part of the nc (northern coalition). i am up a decent way up the ladder too. so you better show some respect or your paltry alliance will be the next snack we decide to obliterate.

do i make myself clear?

*silence*

that's what i thought.

Lusulpher
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.12 10:24:00 - [415]
 

Originally by: Ignition SemperFi
supported as long as its only docking and gate jumping aggression that comes into play.

just like if you rep someone with a GCC, the remote repper gets a GCC.

It shouldn't bring concord though if you rep someone, due to abuse, just the aggression timer.


Supported. Although have to note the use of Carriers on stations for RR in Lowsec and Null...Nothing will remove the advantage the Capitals give if your Logi dies to them under aggression...

So exemption for Lowsec/Null at least.Neutral


The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2010.11.12 16:43:00 - [416]
 

Edited by: The PitBoss on 12/11/2010 16:44:53

Originally by: Double Dee
my main is part of the nc (northern coalition). i am up a decent way up the ladder too. so you better show some respect or your paltry alliance will be the next snack we decide to obliterate.

do i make myself clear?

*silence*

that's what i thought.



Well this is my main ... and I don't write checks with my posts that I'm not willing to pay for in-game ... so keep hiding behind your alt ...

Rolling Eyes ... Any time you want to war dec my alliance .. please feel free ... you know where we hang out ... we enjoy farming your empire dwellers to pay for our real war decs Wink




Jane Jacobs
Posted - 2010.11.13 03:33:00 - [417]
 

Originally by: The PitBoss


Rolling Eyes ... Any time you want to war dec my alliance .. please feel free ... you know where we hang out ... we enjoy farming your empire dwellers to pay for our real war decs Wink




Aha, so we see the truth exposed behind your proposal. All you want to do is make lifestock out of all the empire dwellers. You dont care about the fight. All you want is easy targets, to take out your frustrations from failure in null sec. If you want your war targets in empire to be so easy to kill, why dont you just go shoot rocks with mining lasers?
I hope everyone can see through your manipulation. You dont really care about the game or its mechanics. All you want is easy money.

Your proposal makes it perfectly clear that the war dec system is only good for exploiting newbies and industrialists. It only makes it legal for higher skillpoint players to exploit the lower SPs. You must feel like a big man to run around and ransom defenseless people. Way to go, such a sense of accomplishment you must have. I bet the rats in missions fight back more than most of the people you try to target.

This proposal is not only a bad one for high sec, but it would also negatively affect null sec. This relationship between null sec and the farming of empire for funds through the war dec system needs to be examined. It points to the glaring failure of the war dec mechanics.

The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2010.11.13 03:40:00 - [418]
 

Originally by: Jane Jacobs

... magic 8-Ball says ...


::yawn:: Rolling Eyes

What do you read into this? ... let me help ... you're boring me and running my thread off topic ... please leave Wink

BTW: Post with your main ... dec us .. or STFU ... please choose one


Zelot Blueice
XTC Cartel

Posted - 2010.11.13 06:19:00 - [419]
 

Gonna have to support this one.

Thieving Monkey
Posted - 2010.11.20 06:37:00 - [420]
 

Supported to the max!


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