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blankseplocked [ISSUE] Neutral/ALT Remote Repping & Aggression
 
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Vharl Ochre
I Heart Chaos
Posted - 2009.11.10 13:33:00 - [301]
 

Fully endorsed. A neutral who involves themselves in someone else's fight is no longer neutral. They should face the consequences of the aggro timer.

Although I wouldn't mind seeing them CONCORD-ed either...

Nilder Shadowfiyah
Caldari
3rd Millennium Group
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2009.11.16 13:32:00 - [302]
 

Maybe only allowing remote transfers to someone in your fleet without aggression timer/CONCORD aggro would be a good fix!

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.11.18 01:57:00 - [303]
 

Fully supporting the idea of activating repping modules counting as aggression and preventing ships from jumping or docking.

But PitBoss, just one question - if you have to divide your attention between two ships, doesn't that mean that the guy you're shooting gets to shoot you for free anyway? Along with any drones that the logistics guy will now be deploying since he's already got the aggression timer?

Marcus Henik
Posted - 2009.11.19 01:42:00 - [304]
 

yes this we need. I would also add usage of buff moduls like sensor remote sensor booster and eccm for the same reasons as remote repping. you interfear in the fight you have just steped into the arena, deal with it and take some risk with the rest of eve.

Gnob Emospat
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:54:00 - [305]
 

Fully supported.\

Combat = Risk. Even medics wear kevlar.




"Life's Rough, Get a F***ing Helmet." ~ Dennis Leary.

sukmanobov
Minmatar
The Priesthood
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:12:00 - [306]
 

Oh-Noes its back.. time to argue with tortugan agin Wink

Slave 775
Ministry of Punishment
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.25 20:47:00 - [307]
 

Im slowly think we Privateers took the wrong way proposing something like this here.

Im pretty sure if we made the empire carebears whine about us, using this bull**** we would already have this change.
Because of poor CCP lose preciouse former WoW customers.



Spasmod
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.12.26 21:31:00 - [308]
 

I'll only support this if it applies ONLY to Outside of alliance/corp logistics

Those in the same alliance/corp should be freely allowed to give each other reps without incurring an agression flag. If you put this into place across the board it will effectively kill the ability to roam in RR gangs (In low-sec at least). Not only will it affect your ability to travel but also it will force a RR gang into committing 100% into a fight with no possible withdrawal options.

Let's look at a hypothetical scenario..

You're roaming in a 10 man RR battleship gang with your corp/alliance mates and your scout finds a hostile fleet of equal or larger numbers camping a gate. Your FC decides to engage said gang. Initially it's all joy and roses as you're easily able to tank the hostile gang and begin to take then down.

Then the hostiles decide to bring in more ships or they decide to hotdrop capitals into the fray (Yes it happens a lot). Now things aren't looking so rosey and you're unable to do significant damage to the opposing fleet so your FC decides to give the order to deagress.

While you're in your cooldown period from deagression, you still need to keep each other alive but.. oh shiiii we've all got an agression timer now and can't even consider jumping though the gate to at least save some of (hopefully most of) our asses and we're all now doomed to lose our ships because eventually we'll sucumbe to the onslaught.

Now please don't take this as a whine because it's not. I'm merely pointing out just 1 of many hypothetical situations where an across the board agression timer for logistics would pretty much kill any chance of an already hard to find good fight.

Feel free to flame me unconditionally if I'm totally wrong here of course, but as far as I can tell, a lot of you guys supporting this aren't really looking at the larger picture of PVP and gang warfare in genaral.

Spas


Commoner
Caldari
The Tuskers
Posted - 2009.12.26 21:38:00 - [309]
 

Originally by: Spasmod
I'll only support this if it applies ONLY to Outside of alliance/corp logistics

Those in the same alliance/corp should be freely allowed to give each other reps without incurring an agression flag. If you put this into place across the board it will effectively kill the ability to roam in RR gangs (In low-sec at least). Not only will it affect your ability to travel but also it will force a RR gang into committing 100% into a fight with no possible withdrawal options.

Let's look at a hypothetical scenario..

You're roaming in a 10 man RR battleship gang with your corp/alliance mates and your scout finds a hostile fleet of equal or larger numbers camping a gate. Your FC decides to engage said gang. Initially it's all joy and roses as you're easily able to tank the hostile gang and begin to take then down.

Then the hostiles decide to bring in more ships or they decide to hotdrop capitals into the fray (Yes it happens a lot). Now things aren't looking so rosey and you're unable to do significant damage to the opposing fleet so your FC decides to give the order to deagress.

While you're in your cooldown period from deagression, you still need to keep each other alive but.. oh shiiii we've all got an agression timer now and can't even consider jumping though the gate to at least save some of (hopefully most of) our asses and we're all now doomed to lose our ships because eventually we'll sucumbe to the onslaught.

Now please don't take this as a whine because it's not. I'm merely pointing out just 1 of many hypothetical situations where an across the board agression timer for logistics would pretty much kill any chance of an already hard to find good fight.

Feel free to flame me unconditionally if I'm totally wrong here of course, but as far as I can tell, a lot of you guys supporting this aren't really looking at the larger picture of PVP and gang warfare in genaral.

Spas




Agreed.

As the original post is put up i'm not gonna support it.

Berendas
Posted - 2009.12.26 22:54:00 - [310]
 

Anyone who doesn't support this in all likelyhood partakes in neutral repping, which is a cheap part of the game that pretty much shouts "I'm a coward!"

Loki Farseer
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.12.27 07:14:00 - [311]
 

Hey PitBoss...

I think this is Laughing and using either your changes or Alekseyev Karrde's won't change a thing except anyone with half a brain will change some lowslots on the RR ship, but again your alliance isn't the... shall we say... brightest bulbs in PVP so not suprised you wouldn't get that.

Quit whining and *****ing about this since your alliance is just as bad as anyone else (about Neutral RR). It's so damn simple to beat honestly anyone that can't figure out how to doesn't deserve the KM. I use it (RR) and I beat people that use it all the time.

Instead of whining about it.. beat it (the RR not what you were thinking of).. Off the top of my head I can think of 4 different ways that don't include a Falcon/Rook. Rolling Eyes

Try thinking instead of whining. Shocked

Captain Mung
Posted - 2009.12.27 07:26:00 - [312]
 

/support

JaseNZ
Gallente
The Suicide Kings
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.12.27 11:07:00 - [313]
 

Edited by: JaseNZ on 28/12/2009 21:45:10
Originally by: Berendas
Anyone who doesn't support this in all likelyhood partakes in neutral repping, which is a cheap part of the game that pretty much shouts "I'm a coward!"


Agreed.

Had this happen in a friend's corp on Christmas day (of all days), ir cost them 4 Hulks and an Orca when an in-corp spy decided he wanted to 'give the corp Christmas gifts' he called it.

Athough a small fleet was in the area shortly after to deal with the aggressor, and they could have easily popped the person's ship in a single volley, 2 NPC Corp'd players in logisitcs ships appeared and started remote repping the target, there was nothing they could do.

If it were possible to aggro the NPC players for assisting hostile targets (even though I know in this case it wouldn't have made a difference being the aggressor was protected by the fact they were in the corp being griefed) then this sort of Bull could be dealt with, and the cowardly aggressor wouldn't have anyone to hide behind.

Hot Tubes
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.27 16:04:00 - [314]
 

Mucho support. This issue has gone on far too long already for something that just makes SENSE when you consider how practically any other remote effect pvp related module creates a no docking/jumping timer.

And yes, I wish I wasn't such a noob that I lose in fights when our force equalled their force but then they also had neutral RR support. I'm trying my best dammit!

While I'm at it, the issue of not affecting repping within the corp/alliance, in my opinion, is something which would need to be solved by allowed aggression against anyone in the alliance, not just anyone in the corp. This way when you do rep someone not in your alliance it can be flagged differently to the system than it is currently, when for all intents and purposes they may as well be someone you have no in game association with.

Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
Posted - 2009.12.28 18:40:00 - [315]
 

I don't think the fix goes far enough.

I think remote reppers should be treated as if they attacked everyone who has aggression to the pilot he is repping. Yes concord should come (high sec) and gcc should happen (low sec).

One exception to this rule: If the repper is at war with at least one of the pilots who is aggressed to the ship he is repping then no concord or gcc sanction should happen. But in every other way it should be like the repper attacked everyone attacking the pilot receiving the reps.

Fix the killmails to show reppers. If you used two ships to kill a target, its not a solo kill and shouldn't show up as one. Either stop using killmails or make them accurate.


If there are insurmountable problems with what I propose then this proposal is better than nothing.

Sepheir Sepheron
Caldari
1st Grave
Posted - 2009.12.28 18:46:00 - [316]
 

Originally by: Loki Farseer
Hey PitBoss...

I think this is Laughing and using either your changes or Alekseyev Karrde's won't change a thing except anyone with half a brain will change some lowslots on the RR ship, but again your alliance isn't the... shall we say... brightest bulbs in PVP so not suprised you wouldn't get that.

Quit whining and *****ing about this since your alliance is just as bad as anyone else (about Neutral RR). It's so damn simple to beat honestly anyone that can't figure out how to doesn't deserve the KM. I use it (RR) and I beat people that use it all the time.

Instead of whining about it.. beat it (the RR not what you were thinking of).. Off the top of my head I can think of 4 different ways that don't include a Falcon/Rook. Rolling Eyes

Try thinking instead of whining. Shocked



Do they include a Scorpion? :)

Bfoster
Appetite 4 Destruction
Posted - 2009.12.28 19:30:00 - [317]
 

Supported..
This has needed to be fixed for a LONG time!

The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2009.12.28 19:54:00 - [318]
 

Originally by: Loki Farseer
... and I beat people ...


End discussion ... Wink


Loki Farseer
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.12.29 08:30:00 - [319]
 

Nope no Scorps needed either.

Akaike
Miners Of Moria
Posted - 2009.12.29 08:38:00 - [320]
 

Hells yes, supported

Tappits
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.12.29 11:56:00 - [321]
 

Supported.

What gets me is that Privateer Alliance are the ones asking for this yet there the ones i see use this the most.

Jared Ulfsuun
Posted - 2009.12.29 17:08:00 - [322]
 


Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
Posted - 2009.12.29 18:17:00 - [323]
 

Spas
I see the point you made and would be open to the idea that if you are repping someone in your corp or alliance the rules should be different. I mean from a scouting perspective the enemy could see you had those reppers before engaging.

However, I still think repping someone who is engaged in combat should be counted as aggression. Maybe there could be a rule that would say that repping someone that is not aggressing (other than by repping) would not trigger a new agression countdown. In other words make it so reppers are in the fight at least as much as the guy they are repping but not necessarily more than that. There are various ways they could work that out. But I'm not sure its necessary or good. I'm just saying there are other options.


Heres an example of how it might work. You and your corpmates are in a rr bs gang on a gate. Some sniping bses come and hit one of your gang. As long as he doesn't attack them you guys would all be able to rep him and still jump through the gate. But if he starts firing back and then you all rep him you are all then agressed.

Your situation could have various rules that apply. I would suggest that repping itself does not trigger a new aggression countdown *unless* the person you repped still had an aggression countdown based on the current agro rules. So if you rep someone who has 2 seconds left on their aggro pursuant to the current rules you would earn yourself a whole new timer. But when you rep that person in your next cycle say 10 seconds later that rep would not add to your timer at all. If someone repped you and you were only repping then they would inherit the same countdown you have - no more no less.


The current mechanic is so bad anything would be an improvement. However, I think if they are going to fix this they should just get it right.

Arcane Azmadi
Caldari
First Flying Wing Inc
Primary.
Posted - 2009.12.30 03:02:00 - [324]
 

Edited by: Arcane Azmadi on 30/12/2009 03:03:32
Supported. For all intents and purposes, remote repping alts are virtually an exploit at the moment- blatant abuse of a glaringly obvious oversight in the game design.

Zeveron
Exiled Gathering
HELL4S
Posted - 2009.12.30 11:48:00 - [325]
 

Not that I care much but it currently it seems broken.
Supported.

Jugger Takashi
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.17 18:49:00 - [326]
 

Oh yeah

flakeys
The Great cornholio's
Paper Tiger Coalition
Posted - 2010.02.17 18:51:00 - [327]
 

Fully support this


S'Way
Posted - 2010.02.17 18:56:00 - [328]
 

Supported.

Shodai
Caldari
Posted - 2010.02.17 18:59:00 - [329]
 

I aggree all the way!!! Supported

Er4lyn
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.02.17 20:58:00 - [330]
 

Fully supported! I'd also like to see something done to those who use nuet Orcas to avoid losses. If a hostile docks in a nuet Orca, the Orca should gain aggression.


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