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Vadimko
Xenobytes
Stain Empire
Posted - 2009.05.15 11:03:00 - [1]
 

High speeds are no more.
One of the arguments in devblog was "we want to see afterburners in pvp".
Im looking on my killboard. NO ONE is using it in PvP.
Why? Stupid players dont want to set it up because of obstinacy?
Or another reason? Very Happy

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2009.05.15 11:12:00 - [2]
 

AB + Scrambler beats MWD each and every time ... provided (ie The "IF") you can get that initial 10km range to kill his drive.

Most killboards you checked are probably for 0.0 entities and MWD is still considered a requirement 'out there' due to bubbles .. look at what is done in with AB fittings FW (low-sec) to get an idea of its power.


Kingwood
Amarr
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.05.15 11:13:00 - [3]
 

Because you can't dictate range in PvP with an AB. And ability to dicate range >>>>>>>>> all.

Khanoonian Singh
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.05.15 11:13:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Khanoonian Singh on 15/05/2009 11:14:06
I prefer ABs on my rifters when not tackling.


edit: I have had very little trouble closing to 10k, but it may have to do with the fact that it's just a rifter 99% of the time.

edrenbaton2
Posted - 2009.05.15 11:15:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
AB + Scrambler beats MWD each and every time ... provided (ie The "IF") you can get that initial 10km range to kill his drive.

Most killboards you checked are probably for 0.0 entities and MWD is still considered a requirement 'out there' due to bubbles .. look at what is done in with AB fittings FW (low-sec) to get an idea of its power.



http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/player-Hirana+Yoshida-kills.html

Theory warrior detected.
Please continue. its so interesting.
Ok where i can see low-sec killboard with afterburners?

Wensley
Minmatar
Matari Exodus
Posted - 2009.05.15 11:23:00 - [6]
 

On frigates and assault frigates an afterburner is possibly the best option if you don't have 0.0 bubbles to deal with. Pretty much all fights for these ships take place within scrambler range and an afterburner can get you up to speeds of 1 km/s which is enough to close range. Once in scram range the afterburner lets you dictate range. Blaster ships in particular hate this YARRRR!!

Oh, and before the haters start up it is perfectly possible to kill interceptors using an AB frig. Sure, not all of them but more than enough to make it fun.

Kingwood
Amarr
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.05.15 11:23:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Kingwood on 15/05/2009 11:32:59
Originally by: Khanoonian Singh
Edited by: Khanoonian Singh on 15/05/2009 11:14:06
I prefer ABs on my rifters when not tackling.


edit: I have had very little trouble closing to 10k, but it may have to do with the fact that it's just a rifter 99% of the time.


ABs are pretty much only viable on frigs. All the speed-nerf and scrambler change did was make neuts pretty much a necessity. Neut + MWD > AB + scrambler.

The only positive thing about this is that Frig gangs are more potent. That's about it. Fail changes, imho.

Edit: Ab + Scram frigs still die to anything bigger with a reasonably competent pilot.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2009.05.15 11:43:00 - [8]
 

AB's are of limited use, most ships need a mwd but a few can get away with an AB or even no speed mod at all. Amarr BS's get away with no speed mods in low sec just fine due to them having excellent gun range. I never stick a speed mod on my abaddons. Amarr BC's can also get away with no speed mods for the same reason but I still stick atleast an AB on mine and typically will use a mwd instead.

There is one ship I have that actually works better with an AB instead of a mwd, it's the pilgrim. I get within warp scrambler range cloaked and then duck under any turrets with the assistance of a tracking disruptor. Hence the lower sig radius and reduced cap consumption are very handy. Of course, if I botch it and get decloaked before in scrambler range then I have a problem but I use the pilgrim in situations where that is unlikely to happen.

Kingwood
Amarr
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.05.15 11:47:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar

There is one ship I have that actually works better with an AB instead of a mwd, it's the pilgrim.


Truth. I totally forgot about the Pilgrim, even though I fly it.

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.15 11:59:00 - [10]
 

Afterburners are perfect now. They are used in a lot of roles.

One ship you're all missing where the best setup includes an AB is the Taranis. MWD + AB Ranis is an amazing ship.

Kane Starkiller
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.05.15 13:35:00 - [11]
 

waiting for Merlin to come in and say that AB fits are comedy killmails. . . .

I fly my AB ishkur because it needs a small sig radius and usually what I can't tackle I can outrun. It's never been a handicap for me.

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.15 14:19:00 - [12]
 

I see lots of people using AB's in PvP. I use AB's in 80% of my setups, but I already was using them on my Crusader before the scrambler/MWD/speed changes. To get AB setups to work properly required a lot of pilot skill then, nowadays its much easier.

However, since the changes more hostiles started using neutralizers and warrior II's or even small guns on big ships, making my AB escapades actually more difficult than before the changes.

Originally by: edrenbaton2

Theory warrior detected.


Perhaps check out this: http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/player-Hirana+Yoshida-kills.html
Or even better, this: http://www.amarr-empire.net/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=38313

Alts, you know?

Originally by: edrenbaton2

Ok where i can see low-sec killboard with afterburners?


Since I don't post my killmails on public boards, and most of them are solo kills, I think my losses on an enemy killboard might give you a good indication of my and hostile AB use:

http://www.minmatar-militia.org/kb/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=21653&view=losses

Favored AB setups:

Crusader
4x Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency S

Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator

Small Armor Repairer II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Damage Control I
Heat Sink II

Malediction
3x Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
1x Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket

1MN Afterburner II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Emergency Damage Control I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Small Armor Repairer II

Vengeance
3x Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket

J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
1MN Afterburner II

Small Armor Repairer II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II

Kavu
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.05.15 15:51:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Intigo
Afterburners are perfect now. They are used in a lot of roles.

One ship you're all missing where the best setup includes an AB is the Taranis. MWD + AB Ranis is an amazing ship.


shhh how you know bout that man? thats a garmon secrit fit


Veshta Yoshida
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2009.05.15 16:09:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: edrenbaton2

http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/player-Hirana+Yoshida-kills.html

Theory warrior detected.
Please continue. its so interesting.
Ok where i can see low-sec killboard with afterburners?


Not at all, just defaults to the sisters log-in credentials. I do have a certain amount of experience.

AB fittings WILL beat any and all similar sized ships (not counting faction frigates) using MWD IF you get a scrambler activated on it. No MWD means you have more cap and usually better fitting options as you save a considerable amount of Grid and CPU.
The difficult part is getting that damned scrambler activated in time, very little margin for error.

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.15 16:48:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Veshta Yoshida

The difficult part is getting that damned scrambler activated in time, very little margin for error.


Which is why it is a good idea to activate your scrambler *before* you activate anything else. Not caught by scram: no aggro, you go back on gate/station and jump. Caught: pwn.

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.05.15 17:08:00 - [16]
 

People only 'need' mwds because mwds exist.

Multipurpose Cleaner
Posted - 2009.05.15 17:41:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: edrenbaton2

http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/player-Hirana+Yoshida-kills.html

Theory warrior detected.
Please continue. its so interesting.
Ok where i can see low-sec killboard with afterburners?



TBH, posting BC killboard stats for other people's alts when you're using an alt (or have pretty crap stats) yourself is pretty hypocritical

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.05.15 18:16:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Anubis Xian
People only 'need' mwds because mwds exist.


And because ABs exist.

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.05.15 18:43:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Anubis Xian
People only 'need' mwds because mwds exist.


And because ABs exist.


So how are you liking Fuzzy Logic 5?

Jimmy Duce
Chaotic Tranquility
Posted - 2009.05.15 19:06:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Anubis Xian
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Anubis Xian
People only 'need' mwds because mwds exist.


And because ABs exist.


So how are you liking Fuzzy Logic 5?


Took so long to train to V might as well get some use out of it

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.05.15 20:00:00 - [21]
 


MWDs are for controlling range. Making sure that your opponent stays at the range you want him to or making sure that you get close enough to him to scram before he warps off.

ABs can do the above with easier fitting requirements and no cap penalty, and are also good for in-combat maneuvering (E.g. taking less damage from missiles, dodging turret fire). However, MWDs are far better at controlling range due to the sheer speed you get.



Make from that what you will. I'm sure this thread will attract a bunch of people trying to tell you that oen or the other is the "best".

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.15 21:16:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Intigo on 15/05/2009 21:27:54
By the way, Merdaneth - I'm kinda sold on the AB Crusader now, I'm afraid to admit. I still don't think it's a good idea for 0.0 since I fly fairly expensive clones, but good grief it's fun in lowsec.

I went out to Egmar earlier today and had an amazing fight that pretty much sold me. What the KB doesn't show is the fact that I also had a Zealot well into armor that would have gone down if he had not gotten more backup in time. :/ The Zealot basically came in just as the Thorax was dying, unfortunately the Vaga came in just a little bit too early.

Getting into range of the Zealot was a bit of an issue (that's where the hull damage is from), but once orbit was established it was a piece of cake. The Thorax had medium drones that I took care of pretty easily after the Ares had gone down.

I love how with a frickin' T2 Afterburner I can still do ~1.7km/s with perfect skills + Zor's + one speed hardwiring and that's before overloading. Well over 2k when I overload.

The fit I'm playing about in:

4x Dual Light Pulse's

1mn AB II
J5B Scrambler

SAR II
Pseudo DCU (swapped out my IFFA since I was being skeptical about my chances :p)
CPR II
HS II

Energy Collision dmg rig
Aux Thrusters speed rig

Incredibly fun to fly.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.05.15 21:34:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Anubis Xian
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Anubis Xian
People only 'need' mwds because mwds exist.


And because ABs exist.


So how are you liking Fuzzy Logic 5?


It's not as fun as killing lol-afterburning cruisers and frigates in a Caracal. Neutral

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.15 22:04:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Anubis Xian
People only 'need' mwds because mwds exist.


And because ABs exist.


So how are you liking Fuzzy Logic 5?


It's not as fun as killing lol-afterburning cruisers and frigates in a Caracal. Neutral


Want to fight my AB'ing Frigate hull in your MWD Caracal? :p

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.05.15 23:31:00 - [25]
 

Sure.

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.16 00:30:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Sure.


Awesome! Mail me ingame about a time and place - we could even put some ISK on it if you want!

hsrytjfdtyjh
Posted - 2009.05.16 03:11:00 - [27]
 

The Enyo takes an AB better then an MWD, but if you are sitting in an Enyo you would probably be better off in an Iskur. Although the Enyo can put out some good DPS (250ish w/o rigs/implants/joke fit).

UMEE
Perkone
Posted - 2009.05.16 05:45:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: UMEE on 16/05/2009 05:53:16
been doing the pvp thing for a while. i cant think of a ship or situation in which AB fit would outperform the mwd fit. well, maybe speed tanking missiles...but who does that? if you have an AB fitted, on any ship really, and youre getting "kills", i guarantee that you're killing noobs. someone else said it: you cant dictate range without MWD...that's all there is to it. if youre in a frig, you cant tackle WELL without an MWD. however, it is appropriate for some cruisers to fit both, and offline the mwd at the right time. this is for very specific situations, as it gimps your setup quite a bit.

AB fits:
MWD cruiser + neuts + warriors (i.e. most cruisers) = you dead
mwd frigate = you tackled, and/or dead if said frigate has rails/beams/warriors
bubble = you dead


UMEE
Perkone
Posted - 2009.05.16 05:46:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Merdaneth


Favored AB setups:

Crusader
4x Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency S

Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator

Small Armor Repairer II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Damage Control I
Heat Sink II

Malediction
3x Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
1x Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket

1MN Afterburner II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Emergency Damage Control I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Small Armor Repairer II

Vengeance
3x Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket

J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
1MN Afterburner II

Small Armor Repairer II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II



can you please not post this garbage? this guy is looking for guidance, not comedy fits.

Thorian Baalnorn
Posted - 2009.05.16 05:48:00 - [30]
 

I prefer ABs over MWD.I use one on my hawk and have no problem with catching people.
The fox doesnt always follow the rabbit in order to catch him, sometimes he takes shortcuts. The same applies to pvp.Its not how fast you can go its the tactics you use to catch your prey.

Occassionally one target gets away, and like everything else AB has its limits.But MWD has to many drawbacks for going fast. the major one being its huge sig radius( here comes the transversal velocity debate). Ive used both MWDS and ABs and ABs are far superior at damage reduction than MWDS from my experience.

MWDs are only good for running bubbled gates and even then its limited. If the campers know what they are doing, a few of your mates are going to be cannon fodder while the rest escape.

The only other use of MWDS is to get in targeting range fast. This too i find limited uses for.

i would show proof of kills in my AB fitted hawk.... but since ive never died in it, its a little hard:)


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