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blankseplocked Is there a single-ship counter to the Nano Vagabond?
 
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Squidly
Posted - 2009.05.14 18:56:00 - [1]
 

Before anyone rolls their eyes, this is not a whine. It is a request for information.

There is a fellow who has been coming round in a nano'd Vaga pretty much wtfpwning a few of us, and yes, we know that as long as we keep dying to him, he will continue to feed.

Our objective is not to cry about our lost ships, and it certainly isn't to continue to feed this guy easy kills, rather, our objective is to come up with a reasonable counter.

We are not many in number, and frequently we are in system alone. The Vaga pilot seems to be very very good at piloting his ship, our hat's are off to his proficiency, but we would truly like to surprise him one day with a defeat at our hands.

We do not believe that there is an "I Win Eve" uber ship either, but surely there must be a good solo counter to a nano-vaga?

A little assistance, getting pointed in the right direction, would be appreciated.

And if you simply MUST flame and name-call, I understand.

Thanks in advance!


Mickey Simon
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2009.05.14 19:00:00 - [2]
 

Falcon (with minmatar jammers, web and scram lol), Rapier, even a sniping battleship would be fine.

You just need to hit him with something that negates his speed advantage.

Squidly
Posted - 2009.05.14 19:23:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Mickey Simon
Falcon (with minmatar jammers, web and scram lol), Rapier, even a sniping battleship would be fine.

You just need to hit him with something that negates his speed advantage.


Hmmm. There's a BS setup that can one-volley him? Anything less and he will surely just warp off, no? I certainly would.

The Falcon seems reasonable, I suppose the trick then would be getting close enough to him to hold him until he pops, though I doubt he is that dumb.

That's been our problem. Anything we have fielded that was fast enough to catch and pin him ultimately dies to his Warrior II's before backup points and webs can arrive in range.

Anything strong enough to go toe-to-toe with him can't catch him, and he's too smart to get too close.

Hmmmm.




Lewyrus
Argent Moon
Posted - 2009.05.14 19:39:00 - [4]
 

Any recon can actually scare him off. Most BSs with heavy neuts have a good chance to kill him.

RedSplat
Posted - 2009.05.14 19:53:00 - [5]
 

Curse, Pilgrim, Rapier or Pulse Zealot

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.05.14 19:59:00 - [6]
 

An arbitrator would give him a headache with two well skilled up TDs. Couple that with an interceptor tackling him with a scrambler, and you got yourself a Vaga kill.

If he is as good as you think, he might not engage at all if he sees that you have ships that are dangerous to him.

Remember, the key to the Vaga is the mwd. Once you take it out of his box of tricks, he wont be putting up much of a fight. Just about the only thing that can catch him is a ceptor, so if you dont have one, have a BS fit a rack of heavy neutralizers. Then when the lack of cap kills his mwd, tackle him, bag n tag him.

Grista
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.05.14 20:14:00 - [7]
 

Rapier and Huginn are the traditional choices. An interesting choice would be the Blood Raider faction cruiser (Ashimmu) and battleship (Bhallgorn). They have bonuses to Neuts and Webs. The faction ships may also need to fit a Domination web, as I don't believe their range bonuses come anywhere close to the Rapier/Huginn.

Lightningshade
Caldari
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2009.05.14 20:21:00 - [8]
 

I agree with the previous posts.

Maybe, you could have something to bait him that he has attacked before but with a substantial tank, web and point.

At this point have the rest of the gang aligned at an offgrid point - if he's smart he'll see non cloaky's - so recons.

warp in then pwn him

profit.

Peckles
The Reformists of the West
Posted - 2009.05.14 20:27:00 - [9]
 

A HML Drake will definitly make him **** off, but probably won't kill him.

Durnin Stormbrow
Posted - 2009.05.14 20:34:00 - [10]
 

If you've got a skilled raider that you don't want to or can't deal with...

Don't loose to him, the ganker in him will love it.
Don't give him a good fight, the gamer in him will be challenged by it.
Make evey fight an overwhelming victory or a hopless stalemate. He'll get bored & go away.

Domi with Nos, Damps & mixed drones is what I'd use.
Damps & Bouncers won't let him keep at range. Nos & Guards/Hammerheads won't let him get close. A couple of of ENAMs, a LAR, 1600mm plate & a fist full of warriors will fend off his drones & any damage he might actually land on you.

You won't kill him if he's got half a brain, but he won't kill you either.

Fuazzole
Posted - 2009.05.14 22:33:00 - [11]
 

Try a Diemost

Nuet
dual 150mm
full active tank

100% of ***abond pilots belive the Diemost is a free kill so just sit near a belt and he will come to you.

Also 99% of ***abond pilots are actualy noobs jumping on the Imba-Ship-Bandwaggon.

Diemost has bout 60% more base cap then ***abond so neut on the active tank is fine.


Pater Peccavi
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2009.05.14 22:33:00 - [12]
 

Well, with 2 ships you could use an Arazu and a Pilgrim, one to scram and one to tracking disrupt. Not quite what you asked for.

Irida Mershkov
Gallente
The Reformed
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.14 22:45:00 - [13]
 

Arazu + DPS ship.

Arazu can cut his scrambler with some hefty range to it, suddenly that nano Vagabond isn't so fast.

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2009.05.14 23:06:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 14/05/2009 23:07:33
If you cant have the nice toys like Curse / Rapier or whatever, a very simple combination to kill him is a frigate, AF or inty, and a blackbird. Exploit its most apparent weakness, its low sensor strength.

AFs are prolly the best bet as they are fast enough to get a tackle on him, and tanky enough to survive a wave of warriors, plus the dps to take the vaga down.

Only 2 people needed if you play it well, and an AF is sure gonna look like a juicy target to him, maybe even bait in belt and cloak up the BB.

Asuka Smith
Gallente
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Posted - 2009.05.14 23:38:00 - [15]
 

An AF will look like a juicy target because an AF *is* a juicy target. I doubt there is an AF fit that lasts greater than 15 seconds against a wave of warrior IIs unless it is custom tailored to have maximum tank and specifically versus explosive.

I say you bring an Arazu with a faction scrambler and then keep him at range while you unload on him, probably will need support though to seal the deal as he will do much more DPS than you will.

Mikael Mechka
Gallente
Time Bandits.
Posted - 2009.05.14 23:48:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Asuka Smith
An AF will look like a juicy target because an AF *is* a juicy target. I doubt there is an AF fit that lasts greater than 15 seconds against a wave of warrior IIs unless it is custom tailored to have maximum tank and specifically versus explosive.

I say you bring an Arazu with a faction scrambler and then keep him at range while you unload on him, probably will need support though to seal the deal as he will do much more DPS than you will.


Wouldn't the Vengeance, despite is laughable weapons, be a solid tackler for this? High native explosive resistance and 3 mids for MWD web and scram?

General Coochie
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2009.05.14 23:50:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: General Coochie on 14/05/2009 23:53:11
A lachesis or arazu. but doubt he will engage either.

Fit a faction scram, can overload that to scram and turn off his mwd to 26km.

Then all you need is 2 TDs and some ranged dps. (yes TDs works way better on gallente recons then damps ((buff damps already ffs ccp)))

A lachesis can do all that is needed by itself. mwd, TDs, scram, bit of tank, enough dps to kill it in reasonable time.






Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2009.05.15 00:14:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 15/05/2009 00:16:35
Originally by: Asuka Smith
An AF will look like a juicy target because an AF *is* a juicy target. I doubt there is an AF fit that lasts greater than 15 seconds against a wave of warrior IIs unless it is custom tailored to have maximum tank and specifically versus explosive.



Huh? I've no problem killing a whole wave of warrior IIs in my jaguar before taking significant damage.

If the vaga has no neut you can solo him in the jag.


And forget the Lachesis, any sane vaga pilot will be *very* careful with a lach even on scan.

Vidi Angelus
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.05.15 01:47:00 - [19]
 

The problem with a vaga is that if the pilot is perfectly competent, the only risk is multiple players.

the Vaga can choose to engage whatever it wants, due to its fantastic speed, plenty of ships can force a vaga to flee, for example the drake. but a drake has no means of keeping the vaga from fleeing. pilot error is the Vagas worst enemy (after multiple players)

your best bet is to have a pilot in a recon cloaked and ready to pounce as soon as he attacks if you see him in system, vagas have pretty poor sensor strength.

Just remember a vaga is a very expensive ship to loose, all it'll take is a couple of kills and he'll lose interest in you.

Asobe Seksu
Posted - 2009.05.15 05:13:00 - [20]
 

A Falcon with a full tackle fit, assuming you caught the Vagabond, would definitely pop him.

THEDON1
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2009.05.15 10:53:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Anubis Xian
An arbitrator would give him a headache with two well skilled up TDs. Couple that with an interceptor tackling him with a scrambler, and you got yourself a Vaga kill.

If he is as good as you think, he might not engage at all if he sees that you have ships that are dangerous to him.

Remember, the key to the Vaga is the mwd. Once you take it out of his box of tricks, he wont be putting up much of a fight. Just about the only thing that can catch him is a ceptor, so if you dont have one, have a BS fit a rack of heavy neutralizers. Then when the lack of cap kills his mwd, tackle him, bag n tag him.


arbi will die and so will intys and he will just run from a nos bs. huginn is your best bet that will **** him if ur a good pilot ugh

Midnighter
The Causality
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.05.15 12:57:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Midnighter on 15/05/2009 12:59:32
Edited by: Midnighter on 15/05/2009 12:59:16
Lasy Vagabond we got was using 2x Assault Frigate, 1x Interceptor and 3x Frigate.

My Retribution chased him down and webbed/scrammed and I only popped after the gang had warped to me and mobbed him.
He went down soon after.

Small sacrifice for a good kill.

There is sadly no single-ship counter to a Vagabond, as even the strongest ship choices like the Huginn will go down to a good Vagabond pilot and it should have the speed to avoid anyhting it does not wish to engage.

Good luck Wink

Squidly
Posted - 2009.05.15 13:31:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Midnighter

There is sadly no single-ship counter to a Vagabond, as even the strongest ship choices like the Huginn will go down to a good Vagabond pilot and it should have the speed to avoid anyhting it does not wish to engage.

Good luck Wink


This is pretty much what we had feared. So, it seems that we will have to get someone skilled up into a Lachesis P, D and Q, as it seems to be the most scary ship to a Vaga pilot. We may never kill him, but hopefully he'll seek safer ( for him ) hunting once we undock the Lach a few times.


Thanks for all the input!


RiotRick
Kamehameha I's Revenge
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2009.05.15 14:11:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: RiotRick on 15/05/2009 14:12:48
Also 2 blaster taranis will kill vaga without a problem:

ion blasters
mwd, -2 scram, web
damage control, magstab, overdrive

overheat your guns from the start.

A solo pilgrim will also do the trick if you can get him tackled.

Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.15 15:37:00 - [25]
 

An interesting observation after reading this thread.

The consensus here is that that Vagabond is a good, fast ship which, with a smart pilot, can engage targets of opportunity, hit and fade and get away from anything it chooses not to fight.

I seem to recall all the anti-speed nerf folks saying that the Vaga would be utter junk and that none of these things would be possible any longer in a post speed nerf world.

CCP 1 - speed nerf complainers 0 in this particular arena.

FoxyLuv
Posted - 2009.05.15 15:43:00 - [26]
 

If you can get him to engage a lone BS in a belt its actualy not that hard to kill a normal fitted Vaga (meaning no faction point).
Fit 2 Heavy Neuts (Unstabele or T2) , MWD , Web, 24km point.
Then if he engages you wait abit till he feels confident his MWD is offline and he is in range for Neuts ,activate MWD put both neuts and (preferably overheated point) on him and aproach him as soon as hes in range web him ...

Kavu
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.05.15 15:48:00 - [27]
 

heavy neuts will make him cry, alot




Allahs Warrior
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.05.15 16:39:00 - [28]
 

dominix, heavy neuts, super active tank with boosters, scram/disruptor, MWD, web, oh and I heard domi has drones too.

Neacail
Posted - 2009.05.15 17:01:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Neacail on 15/05/2009 17:02:16
I fly a vaga 99% of the time and I can tell you a few things about my play style:

I avoid recons. Sure, pilgrims are easy kills, but the others, not so much. Lach and Arazu will prevent me from running which isn't good. Rapier and Huginn are usually easy 1v1 as I still have a decent speed after being webbed, but they usually just mwd away and warp so I don't even bother. Curse, I don't even look at, but I've always managed to escape the ones I didn't want to fight.

Domis, if I don't have a faction disruptor (I rarely do), will make me warp away. But so far none has actually managed to get close to killing me.

I love them frigs. The disruptor fitted inties like the Crow are so easy to hit. I often consider them a free kill and separate them from their fleets for easy pickings. Anything else with a scrambler will quickly see how effective med neuts are.

If the guy is as good as you say, there's not much you can do solo.

You can, however, try to trick him into warping to an acc gate so you can catch him with a scrambler. If you're in a BC or something, you have a good chance of killing him. Other than that and hoping he makes a mistake, your best bet is to bring a curse with as many med neuts as you can, and an inty. The curse will prevent the vaga from using his mwd or neuts to hit/scare off the inty, so after you pop his drones, he'll be permanently tackled.

By the way, lone missile boats may not kill a vagabond, but their combined damage can hurt.. a lot. Get a few caracals or better, and someone who can tackle the vaga for at least 20 seconds (like a crow that knows wtf he is doing), and you might kill him.

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.05.15 17:13:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Anubis Xian on 15/05/2009 17:13:57
Originally by: Midnighter
Edited by: Midnighter on 15/05/2009 12:59:32
Edited by: Midnighter on 15/05/2009 12:59:16
Lasy Vagabond we got was using 2x Assault Frigate, 1x Interceptor and 3x Frigate.

My Retribution chased him down and webbed/scrammed and I only popped after the gang had warped to me and mobbed him.
He went down soon after.


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*Containment Field Engaged*


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