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blankseplocked [Petition] Roll Back the mwd-cloak nerf and the 3-second no mwd delay
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Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.05.14 15:32:00 - [1]

I petition that the changes put forth in 1.2 (without any interaction or feedback from the players, I might add) which remove the ability to mwd-cloak should be rolled back. Furthermore, I petition that the 3-second no-mwd delay upon decloaking should also be removed, because it basically guarantees death for anything smaller than a battlecruiser if it hops into a gatecamp.

Both of these things are terrible for small-gang pvp and encourage the blob. It makes roaming about 0.0 in a small group a thing of the past. They are stupid, stupid changes that anyone who has pvp'ed in 0.0 will make the game worse.

Roll back these changes!

Brutor Tribe

Posted - 2009.05.14 15:33:00 - [2]

Edited by: isdisco3 on 14/05/2009 16:49:45
Edited by: isdisco3 on 14/05/2009 16:48:43
edit - the mwd-cloak-warp trick is being handled. no word on the 3-second delay for mwd's.

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Hi folks, firstly an apology from all of us for screwing up and letting this slip through the cracks despite many of you trying very hard to indicate the serious gameplay fallout in the threads you linked previously Crying or Very sad. This started out life as a minor defect where a code fix was made to stop the ECM jamming continuing to work after you had cloaked.

The intention was for only this to be fixed, however as many of you are now acutely aware, the fallout from that supposedly minor defect fix to a single issue is rather massive and game breaking for many. This was very much not an intended gameplay change from us.

The change that caused this to all happen is being reverted at the earliest possible opportunity with a hotfix (no ETA yet) but we will make this right as soon as possible.

Zedrik Cayne
Standards and Practices
Posted - 2009.05.14 15:36:00 - [3]

Not supported, <insert carbon copy go back to wow, adapt or perish, etc etc etc here...can't be arsed to actually think of anything interesting here>

Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.14 15:39:00 - [4]

Edited by: Zostera on 14/05/2009 15:40:46
Copy and paste from Patch feedback thread in support of the rollback.


Ok... now you ask for feedback.

I think feedback would have been better utilised pre-patch, and was in fact available in the game development forum from a large number of players concerned at some of the apparent (but un-announced) changes.

The changes to module activion time and module cut off on cloaking were not raised with the community via a development thread. However a number of players noticed the changes on SISI and tried to give prior warning of the implications to the development team here, here, and here.

At least one of these threads reached 8 pages with no response from CCP in several days of posting.

End result is several seriously broken ship covert ship classes including Recons, which I have highlighted with a little testing on TQ today...

First thing I did on logging in was try my Rapier. It feels heavier I think as a result of the agility, but not a huge difference. When I decloak after jump I am trying the following.

Select a celestial
Hit align
Spam MWD (seems to take a second or two to kick in)
Hit cloak

Speed with MWD before cloak hits maybe 500m/s and drops really fast getting me maybe 2km away from my original decloak point moving at 300m/s (ish). Considering the distance I have moved and the distance required to decloak a ship it leaves me pretty vulnerable. Testing this with an dictor pilot friend gets me decloaked maybe 50% of the time by his dictor burning from 0 off the gate, and still within the radius of a bubble. Feedback from him is that after gate decloak I am visible for a couple seconds while I try and spam MWD (seems to be a significant delay) before cloaking, that couple of seconds is long enough for him to get my exact direction of travel from the tactical overlay. I can only guess at how bad this percentage will be with several inties/frigs at a gate.

Further to this I find that in the absence of a bubble, it is pretty easy to align/mwd/cloak/uncloak/instawarp in a battleship of all things.

End result is that 0.0 specialised scout ships are now pretty much useless in the face of a bubble and a couple of inties, while low-sec gate camps are pretty much useless in the face of anything sporting the new cloak/instawarp combo.

Had CCP announced their intentions with a development thread, and/or responded to the feedback from the community we would not have this issue today. CCP's own failure to communicate has left the game severely broken, and my expectation is that it will take several months of complaints/suggestions/dev blogs/testing to regain any balance.

Very dissapointed.

I know people will respond QQ cry more, but I honestly don't see myself resubscribing in 30 days when it's due.

EDIT: Many players made a significant effort both prior too and post patch to offer moderate, thought out, reasonable feedback. Would CCP please respond to that feedback on this issue please with a reasoned explanation of their intentions and consideration of the results we now have on TQ?


Note to the CSM, this is an example of very poor development and implemtation with no community involvement/communication. This kind of issue needs to be addressed with CCP via the CSM at the earliest opportunity.

Posted - 2009.05.14 15:41:00 - [5]

Zedrick, i think you need to have a think about the repercussions of this.

Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2009.05.14 15:45:00 - [6]

This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.

The EVE Online Moderation team

Masuat'aa Matari
Posted - 2009.05.14 15:53:00 - [7]

Mad Bombers
Posted - 2009.05.14 15:58:00 - [8]

Roll back or be ready to lose your business ccp

Casino Alkasar
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:02:00 - [9]


Solar Storm
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:02:00 - [10]

This change destroys cov ops and recons. They can no longer perform their job as forward scouts. A recon or cov ops even, jumping into a bubble camp while scouting for the main fleet is TOAST because of these changes. This is the most bone headed change in recent memory.

Posted - 2009.05.14 16:07:00 - [11]

Covert ops is now useless and will get popped at every camp. As will blockade runners.

William Pierce
Zor Industries
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:08:00 - [12]

Edited by: William Pierce on 14/05/2009 16:07:56
CCP, you ****ed up, and ****ed up bad. Fix this idiotic change, and listen next time when a huge number of your PAYING CUSTOMERS disagree strongly with a decision.

If you guys want to screw your community, then go ahead. But you will have lost my business.

Posted - 2009.05.14 16:08:00 - [13]

Mad Bombers
Guns and Alcohol
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:13:00 - [14]

S1r Minealot
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:22:00 - [15]

fail ccp

Zombicidal Mania
Penumbra Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:30:00 - [16]

Fail, now all ships warp in 3 seconds outside of a bubble, and the ships that are supposed to have a chance to get through a bubble don't. Fail fail fail...

/signed, this is why we have you CSM lets see what you can do.

The Triangle
Veneratio Venator Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:30:00 - [17]

I'm flashy red, I want to make killing people easier but hell even I support this.

Enden Assulu
Caldari Provisions

Posted - 2009.05.14 16:33:00 - [18]

Originally by: Riesia
I'm flashy red, I want to make killing people easier but hell even I support this.


Not sure what CCP where thinking with this one.

Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:34:00 - [19]

Edited by: Zostera on 14/05/2009 16:34:05
CCP Chronitis has apologised and announced a hotifix to the mwd/cloak issue is being worked on asap.

Apocrypha 1.2 feeback thread

Lord Makk
Trust Doesn't Rust
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:34:00 - [20]


Roll it back please, and you will have saved many many subscriptions, and made the players happy again.

Cowboy John
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:34:00 - [21]

Maestro Ulv
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:35:00 - [22]

Either roll it back or fix coverts so they are not effected by this idiocy.

The Mute
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:36:00 - [23]

Dan Deoxys
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:39:00 - [24]

Posted - 2009.05.14 16:45:00 - [25]

Agree entirely, this needs to be fixed.

I'd also like to know why CCP completely ignored this problem and still went live with the changes, despite a huge amount of opposition to the idea in the dev forum

Dark Assassin15
Failed Diplomacy
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:46:00 - [26]

Agreed, you just destroyed small gang's.

darius mclever
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:48:00 - [27]

Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:48:00 - [28]

Thankfully, it looks like it is going to be:

Sodrus Muir
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:48:00 - [29]

Cripes...I just got into a recon ship.


Lilith Velkor
Heretic Army
Posted - 2009.05.14 17:11:00 - [30]

Stupid change needs to go.

On a side note, think about relieving Nozh from 'balancing' duty and give him a task where he cant harm gameplay that much.

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