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blankseplocked 0.0 What future for the "covert like?
 
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Nomade
Minmatar
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2009.05.14 14:29:00 - [1]
 

before we could have a gang "covert" (covert ops / stealth bomber / recon ship / blockade runner / recon t3) with a black ops in 0.0 ..... provided that a ship with a covert-Cyno be able to move the camps to go gate-open its Cyno.
-role was to give the pilot covert ops.

Now the covert ops can no longer pass the camp-gate (APOC patch 1.2) or the limit with 20% not to peter.

What future corp "covert like" like mine have it?

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.14 14:59:00 - [2]
 

You're useless. What an absolutely terrible change.

A massive boost to blob warfare and completely removes any chance of small gang warfare in 0.0. I am nothing short of amazed at how stupid these changes are (MWD + Covert Cloaks and the MWD after jumping through changes).

Santiago Fahahrri
Gallente
Galactic Geographic
Posted - 2009.05.14 15:27:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Nomade
before we could have a gang "covert" (covert ops / stealth bomber / recon ship / blockade runner / recon t3) with a black ops in 0.0 ..... provided that a ship with a covert-Cyno be able to move the camps to go gate-open its Cyno.
-role was to give the pilot covert ops.

Now the covert ops can no longer pass the camp-gate (APOC patch 1.2) or the limit with 20% not to peter.

What future corp "covert like" like mine have it?



Dunno about you mate, but I plan to continue running gate camps and beating them. It's way more about timing and tactics than that one little burst of MWD speed. I'm not a "go back to the gate" type pilot either, I usually aim to get past the campers, out of the bubble, and continue on my merry way.

The MWD burst loss changes the tactics a little, but it really shouldn't stop a good recon pilot from doing what we do.

Kavu
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.05.14 15:28:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Intigo
You're useless. What an absolutely terrible change.

A massive boost to blob warfare and completely removes any chance of small gang warfare in 0.0. I am nothing short of amazed at how stupid these changes are (MWD + Covert Cloaks and the MWD after jumping through changes).


bull**** and you know it, genos for one will continue small gang warfare in 0.0 unhindered by this change, and will continue to be successful






Buck Starchaser
Freelancer Union
Unaffiliated
Posted - 2009.05.14 15:51:00 - [5]
 

I just tested this. You apparently can't re-cloak or use an MWD after the gate cloak for a few seconds. This means that anything that can lock you in 3 seconds is going to get you. Half of the fight is scouting the gate camps. Now you have to fly blindly and loose a scout every time you find something. And forget about those shiny new blockade runner haulers. You'll loose them every time.

What about ceptors? can't use MWD, you're screwed. Covops? can't cloak or use MWD, you're screwed. Apparently now all jumps are meant to be blind so now you just bring a dozen throwaway newb scouts with each roam?

This is utterly stupid. Seriously!

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.14 15:56:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Kavu
Originally by: Intigo
You're useless. What an absolutely terrible change.

A massive boost to blob warfare and completely removes any chance of small gang warfare in 0.0. I am nothing short of amazed at how stupid these changes are (MWD + Covert Cloaks and the MWD after jumping through changes).


bull**** and you know it, genos for one will continue small gang warfare in 0.0 unhindered by this change, and will continue to be successful




Grats, you're in Providence fighting complete morons. Let me know when you have a risk of running into decent bubble camps vs fairly competent opponents as the first time you do you will die as a result of the MWD after jumping change.

Also, to the person who said that "recons will still be fine" - apparently it is possible to MWD after cloaking for a brief burst of speed so that may be true, but if you think you can survive a good 0.0 gatecamp by just cloaking at an 'opportune moment' you are so mistaken. I would love to prove you wrong, as I have done to a ton of covert / recon pilots already. Decloaking is a great passtime, when it was still a challenge.

This is a major blow to small and solo warfare, seeing as your Scout (which, in our gangs, is very often me) will die to the first bubblecamp he meets, guaranteed.

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.14 15:57:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Buck Starchaser
I just tested this. You apparently can't re-cloak or use an MWD after the gate cloak for a few seconds. This means that anything that can lock you in 3 seconds is going to get you. Half of the fight is scouting the gate camps. Now you have to fly blindly and loose a scout every time you find something. And forget about those shiny new blockade runner haulers. You'll loose them every time.

What about ceptors? can't use MWD, you're screwed. Covops? can't cloak or use MWD, you're screwed. Apparently now all jumps are meant to be blind so now you just bring a dozen throwaway newb scouts with each roam?

This is utterly stupid. Seriously!


Ding, ding, ding, what he said.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about, Kavu? Do you ever fight someone even the least bit competent with bubble camps?

Or do you just use throwaway scout alts 24/7?

Kavu
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:16:00 - [8]
 

*sigh*

why does everyone assume that the "normal" way of doing things is the only way to do things, so some of you will have to change your tactics a bit, why dont you stop crying and go get in the game and figure out a new tactic?


crockett EXE
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:24:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: crockett EXE on 14/05/2009 16:24:23
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri

Dunno about you mate, but I plan to continue running gate camps and beating them. It's way more about timing and tactics than that one little burst of MWD speed. I'm not a "go back to the gate" type pilot either, I usually aim to get past the campers, out of the bubble, and continue on my merry way.

The MWD burst loss changes the tactics a little, but it really shouldn't stop a good recon pilot from doing what we do.


Regardless of that fact, why does ccp continue to make things easier and easier for gate campers and making blob warfare require little to no tactics. Meanwhile they make it harder and harder for guys whom actually do use tactics and skill to get around.

Maybe they can make 200km warp bubbles in the next patch. I just wish they would fix the bugs and leave the other crap alone..

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:24:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Kavu
*sigh*

why does everyone assume that the "normal" way of doing things is the only way to do things, so some of you will have to change your tactics a bit, why dont you stop crying and go get in the game and figure out a new tactic?




...

Please, do let me know what 'new and innovative' tactics there are to counter this change which will allow your scouts to scout good bubble camps without dying? Or better yet, let me know how an Inty or Sabre will now be able to survive jumping into decent bubble camps.
I will be waiting for your reply. :)

I just had the easiest Nemesis kill ever because of this change. If the roles were reversed and the pilot on the other side is not a complete idiot there would have been no way for me to survive.

Also, is this the only character you PvP on? Because if so you're insanely inactive.

Kavu
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:29:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Intigo
Originally by: Kavu
*sigh*

why does everyone assume that the "normal" way of doing things is the only way to do things, so some of you will have to change your tactics a bit, why dont you stop crying and go get in the game and figure out a new tactic?




...

Please, do let me know what 'new and innovative' tactics there are to counter this change which will allow your scouts to scout good bubble camps without dying? Or better yet, let me know how an Inty or Sabre will now be able to survive jumping into decent bubble camps.
I will be waiting for your reply. :)

I just had the easiest Nemesis kill ever because of this change. If the roles were reversed and the pilot on the other side is not a complete idiot there would have been no way for me to survive.

Also, is this the only character you PvP on? Because if so you're insanely inactive.


insanley inactive? or on deployment to places where there are no computers, internet, or indoor plumbing?

Im at work so i havent tried out the new patch yet, just saying im sure there is a way around this, and if there really isnt ill come back here tell you that you were right and dust off my gate camping ships


Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:32:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Kavu
Originally by: Intigo
Originally by: Kavu
*sigh*

why does everyone assume that the "normal" way of doing things is the only way to do things, so some of you will have to change your tactics a bit, why dont you stop crying and go get in the game and figure out a new tactic?




...

Please, do let me know what 'new and innovative' tactics there are to counter this change which will allow your scouts to scout good bubble camps without dying? Or better yet, let me know how an Inty or Sabre will now be able to survive jumping into decent bubble camps.
I will be waiting for your reply. :)

I just had the easiest Nemesis kill ever because of this change. If the roles were reversed and the pilot on the other side is not a complete idiot there would have been no way for me to survive.

Also, is this the only character you PvP on? Because if so you're insanely inactive.


insanley inactive? or on deployment to places where there are no computers, internet, or indoor plumbing?

Im at work so i havent tried out the new patch yet, just saying im sure there is a way around this, and if there really isnt ill come back here tell you that you were right and dust off my gate camping ships




...

So you're posting on the forum without actually having tried the patch nor knowing what it has done to affect the gameplay?
Are you sure that's a good idea?

Maybe it's just me, but I like to have an educated understanding of the things I write. Then again, you can just keep assuming you know what you're talking about when in reality you don't. :p

Kavu
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:34:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Intigo

...

So you're posting on the forum without actually having tried the patch nor knowing what it has done to affect the gameplay?
Are you sure that's a good idea?

Maybe it's just me, but I like to have an educated understanding of the things I write. Then again, you can just keep assuming you know what you're talking about when in reality you don't. :p


just sayin, been in this game for a while and had every good tactic nerfed out from under me, and always found a new way to do simmilar things


Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:42:00 - [14]
 

Anyway, to stay on topic: The MWD + Cloak thing is apparently an error, according to CCP Chrono.

I hope that also fixes the inability to Cloak or MWD for 2-3s after decloaking from a gate jump, or the hotfix is good for nothing. Time will tell, I guess.

Kavu
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.05.14 16:55:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Intigo
Anyway, to stay on topic: The MWD + Cloak thing is apparently an error, according to CCP Chrono.

I hope that also fixes the inability to Cloak or MWD for 2-3s after decloaking from a gate jump, or the hotfix is good for nothing. Time will tell, I guess.


lol i was just coming back to quote that same thread, should make cloaks work the way they did before with the exception of not being able to do the jam while cloak trick as that was the intended fix


Miss Shivarrr
Posted - 2009.05.14 17:43:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Buck Starchaser
I just tested this. You apparently can't re-cloak or use an MWD after the gate cloak for a few seconds. This means that anything that can lock you in 3 seconds is going to get you. Half of the fight is scouting the gate camps. Now you have to fly blindly and loose a scout every time you find something. And forget about those shiny new blockade runner haulers. You'll loose them every time.

What about ceptors? can't use MWD, you're screwed. Covops? can't cloak or use MWD, you're screwed. Apparently now all jumps are meant to be blind so now you just bring a dozen throwaway newb scouts with each roam?

This is utterly stupid. Seriously!
Have to agree with this poster. This change really is sucky. There goes recons.

Bloody Rabbit
Posted - 2009.05.14 21:01:00 - [17]
 

Go go cyno alt with all of 600k skill points Laughing

I have retired my recon and scouts for the use of NPC alts in shuttles. Works great and I get free clones.

Nichola Kreed
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2009.05.14 21:39:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Bloody Rabbit
Go go cyno alt with all of 600k skill points Laughing

I have retired my recon and scouts for the use of NPC alts in shuttles. Works great and I get free clones.

you need enough alot for every camp uyou face on roaming, next time bring 12 noob ships with inty roaming gang.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.05.15 08:20:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/05/2009 08:22:19
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/05/2009 08:21:42
2 days ago I washed my car. Yesterday despite they said it'd stay sunny the whole week, it rained mud.

Yesterday morning I replaced all 4 tires (very expensive, about 1000 USD Crying or Very sad) and yesterday evening an hole in the road popped one, broke the alloy rim, bent the whole steer mechanics and popped the gears box (and ofc lost all the oil).

Yesterday morning I also bought 10 Cheetahs + Cov ops cloak.


Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Forge Trader
Posted - 2009.05.15 21:40:00 - [20]
 

There is a huge problem in EvE that CCP has not solved. Most of Eve is deserted. 80% of players live in hisec.

The reason is that carebears, which is most players, will not go anywhere in EvE where they cannot reliably protect their ships by skills, attention, and good tactics. They just will not go.

That is why most of nullsec except the alliances, and most of losec, is virtually deserted. You can make 30 jumps thru nullsec w/o seeing another pilot in local. In losec, you might not see even one other pilot in local except for certain hubs or routes.

The solution is not to make life more dangerous for those trying to protect their ships. The result will just be fewer pilots willing to risk their ships to the game mechanics in lo or null sec.

That is why the MWD and cloak changes are bad - they are counterproductive to getting more players out of empire and into lo and null sec.

"Better lots of hard-to-catch targets than few (or none) easy-to-catch ones"

xnewbie
Posted - 2009.05.16 15:59:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Forge Trader
There is a huge problem in EvE that CCP has not solved. Most of Eve is deserted. 80% of players live in hisec.

The reason is that carebears, which is most players, will not go anywhere in EvE where they cannot reliably protect their ships by skills, attention, and good tactics. They just will not go.

That is why most of nullsec except the alliances, and most of losec, is virtually deserted. You can make 30 jumps thru nullsec w/o seeing another pilot in local. In losec, you might not see even one other pilot in local except for certain hubs or routes.

The solution is not to make life more dangerous for those trying to protect their ships. The result will just be fewer pilots willing to risk their ships to the game mechanics in lo or null sec.

That is why the MWD and cloak changes are bad - they are counterproductive to getting more players out of empire and into lo and null sec.

"Better lots of hard-to-catch targets than few (or none) easy-to-catch ones"


Bump!

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2009.05.16 20:05:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 16/05/2009 20:07:33
Originally by: Forge Trader
There is a huge problem in EvE that CCP has not solved. Most of Eve is deserted. 80% of players live in hisec.



This.

If you ask me, the introduction of HICs in lowsec was already a huge mistake, now with a nice scanres boost and agility nerf its completed, even a complete muppet camp where people have no clue whatsoever can pretty much kill anything that comes along.

With proper game balance, the hunted should have an edge over the hunter, sadly its the other way round in eve.

Gibbo3771
Posted - 2009.05.16 22:37:00 - [23]
 

Unsure if anyone has realised this aswell, in my helios the other day, was testing if the MWD then cloak thing was real (yeah it is, major **** up Very Happy) but did anyone realise anything else wrong?!

When you decloak and try to reload your probe luancher or guns whatever it is your in, it says you cannot do this becuase you are cloaked, always have to wait until the ship is completely visable, 2-3 seconds :(.

Dunno if this is a prob for someone else, but when i normally explore I like to decloak in warp and reload my gear :) hehe

Celia Therone
Posted - 2009.05.18 07:26:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Gibbo3771

When you decloak and try to reload your probe luancher or guns whatever it is your in, it says you cannot do this becuase you are cloaked, always have to wait until the ship is completely visable, 2-3 seconds :(.

Dunno if this is a prob for someone else, but when i normally explore I like to decloak in warp and reload my gear :) hehe


I've had this.

A couple of times I've also had the message last until the end of the warp (i.e. 30 seconds). I can see that I'm visible during warp but it wont let me do anything because I'm de-cloaking. Can't re-cloak or activate any modules.

Santiago Fahahrri
Gallente
Galactic Geographic
Posted - 2009.05.18 13:39:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Gibbo3771


When you decloak and try to reload your probe luancher or guns whatever it is your in, it says you cannot do this becuase you are cloaked, always have to wait until the ship is completely visable, 2-3 seconds :(.




Confirming there's still a 3 second delay to do anything with modules after decloaking (gate cloak or module cloak).

Cid Arken
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.18 21:11:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis

Hi folks, firstly an apology from all of us for screwing up and letting this slip through the cracks despite many of you trying very hard to indicate the serious gameplay fallout in the threads you linked previously Crying or Very sad. This started out life as a minor defect where a code fix was made to stop the ECM jamming continuing to work after you had cloaked.

The intention was for only this to be fixed, however as many of you are now acutely aware, the fallout from that supposedly minor defect fix to a single issue is rather massive and game breaking for many. This was very much not an intended gameplay change from us.

The change that caused this to all happen is being reverted at the earliest possible opportunity with a hotfix (no ETA yet) but we will make this right as soon as possible.



Source

It looks like they are looking into it, thankfully!


 

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