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blankseplocked Tracking Links, Oneiros and Scimitar, useless?
 
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Mystafyre
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.05.07 21:29:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Mystafyre on 07/05/2009 21:30:01
I have been trying to figure out some good tactics for ships wich has tracking link bonuses.

For example Muninn with Scimitar help. I used typical 100-105 km range fitting for Muninn and three T2 tracking links in Scimitar, optimal went to 140+ km and the Scimitar can field three medium shield transporters perma running. However these fittings doesn't include MWD and if I bring there MWD both are very vulnerable to bubbles. Of course no body wouldn't field just Muninns and Scimitars.

And of course you can't boost Ishtars hitting range with tracking links. Wich is huge hit to sniping HAC gang with logistic support.

It's better just field Basilisks and Guardians alongside some Falcons perhaps and use the 100 km range. The higher range done by tracking links would of course mean better tank. Range is tank.

But with battleships things are different. Apocs for example can field shorter range crystals and deal much higher damage to that 100-150 km range. Wich is usually used with sniping remote repping BS fleets. However, it's rarely used.

The real advantage comes when snipers are using long range T2 ammunition. The range bonus is massive. Rokh and Apoc gets range well above 250 km. You can fit battleships with heavy tank and have long range.

Typical RR BS fleet Megathron optimal goes from 120-130 km to above 200 km with three tracking links. Of course fielding one logistic ship on each sniping battleship is madness. Stacking penalty kicks in there, so drop it to two and you can field 180-190 km range. Even with one it's 150-160 km. It depends from skills and higher number can be achieved with maxed out gunnery specs.

But is it worth to field Scimitar or Oneiros with tracking links to achieve just 30 km range increase? With 100 sniping battleships it would need 34 Scimitar or Oneiros ships to give all of them the 30 km range increase. They all could be in battleships and you would have much more hitting power with shorter range.

The bonus sure looks like great as first, but the more you start to investigate and trying out different combinations, it becomes useless.

Tracking links with tracking scripts are useless for fleet warfare just because those fights are stand offs. Both are sitting still and shooting. Testing out each other, trying to get warp in with covert ops ships to bubble the other fleet and swich to gank ammo.

Tracking links with optimal range scripts aren't just practical in use.

It seems that even with sniping battleships, there isn't use for Scimitar and Oneiros, Guardian and Basilisk simply are better because they can feed fleet with cap.



So, is there any usage for tracking links in game?



In PVE you can always take Oneiros alt with you to boost your paladins tracking etc, but I mean in PVP wise.


Commander Vic
Minmatar
Ioncross
Posted - 2009.05.07 21:58:00 - [2]
 

I fly both and have yet to find a time when tracking links were more helpful than something else in the mid slots. Small gangs or fleets... they do have some use in mission fleets but even there it's more just because you don't need a tank or MWD so you might as well do something with the midslots.

It sure does look cool on paper though.

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2009.05.07 22:27:00 - [3]
 

they were useful before they were MASSIVELY nerfed the same patch that gave us scripts. THey were barely useful. But ccp likes to waste times nerfign things that are already weak like ECM burst and tracking links....

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2009.05.07 22:58:00 - [4]
 

Tracking links are, like tracking computers / enhancers, broken as they dont affect falloff.

Max Hardcase
The Scope
Posted - 2009.05.07 23:23:00 - [5]
 

Serp tracking link + level 5 logistics = better than T2 TC.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Posted - 2009.06.12 20:33:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite on 12/06/2009 20:33:59
I've been thinking about this as I'm training up for logistic ships.... I would like to propose the Scimitar and Oneiros lose the tracking link bonus, and get a bonus to projected ECCM!!!!! While not as useful as the cap transfer ability of the other two logistic ships, I think it this bonus would be much more useful than tracking link bonus'.

And given that Gallente are very anti-caldari, I think it fits well within the storyline!

Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries
Posted - 2009.06.12 21:54:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Ki Tarra on 12/06/2009 21:54:34
Now if they made it a remote sensor booster bonus, then it would be worth using.

Doctor Mabuse
Posted - 2009.06.12 23:34:00 - [8]
 

They should be given a remote ECCM bonus, strength and range...

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.06.13 00:25:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Ki Tarra
Now if they made it a remote sensor booster bonus, then it would be worth using.
Originally by: Doctor Mabuse
They should be given a remote ECCM bonus, strength and range...
or both

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.06.13 00:31:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Seishi Maru
they were useful before they were MASSIVELY nerfed the same patch that gave us scripts. THey were barely useful. But ccp likes to waste times nerfign things that are already weak like ECM burst and tracking links....


this pretty much

Nullshadow
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.06.25 14:49:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Nullshadow on 25/06/2009 14:50:42
I have been looking at the Tracking Link bonus and scratching my head a bit since it does not seem like it can be put to good use all that often. Compare this to the Energy Transfer bonuses of the Guardian and Basilisk, which give a massive benefit to the ship receiving it. That Guard&Bassy each get two role bonuses (Repping & Energy Xfer) to the Oneiros/Scimitar's one each (just Repping) is an added annoyance. At least the Onny/Scimmy ought to get a second Tracking Link role bonus, even if it is effectively useless.

One thought that I had would be to add a Tracking Link script that would reduce the base effectiveness of Tracking Links substantially but change the Tracking Link into a gang bonus module. The missing second role bonus for the Oneiros and Scimmy could then be a second % boost to Tracking Link effectiveness, which in total would counteract most or all of the proposed script's penalty at Logistics 5. Then you don't need an unreasonable ratio of 1 Scimmy/Onny per 3 BSes, but just a couple around. Most of a fleet's Logistics would still be Guardians and Basilisks, but having a couple of the others would be considered a good thing rather than an opportunity to harangue people about cross-training. Then it might even be useful for a scimmy to gimp its shield tank to squeeze in a Tracking Link while in a HAC gang, to make the sniping just a smidgeon better.

Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2009.06.25 16:17:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Mystafyre
I have been trying to figure out some good tactics for ships wich has tracking link bonuses.



Getting ships that are not supposed to hit out of sentry range hitting out of sentry range. Doable even with a Zealot with some money.

Davinel Lulinvega
Posted - 2009.06.25 16:31:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Caius Sivaris
Originally by: Mystafyre
I have been trying to figure out some good tactics for ships wich has tracking link bonuses.



Getting ships that are not supposed to hit out of sentry range hitting out of sentry range. Doable even with a Zealot with some money.
This one time a corpmate shot an interceptor in a sieged dread. It involved range and tracking links.

Regat Kozovv
Caldari
Alcothology
Posted - 2009.06.25 16:40:00 - [14]
 

My alt flies an Onieros with Logistics V. Being cap stable, I typically pack 4 large T2 armor repairers, and a pair of T2 Tracking Links.

On the battleships it's marginal. Sometimes you'll be able to extend the fire of one of your gank mates far enough that he can switch from Radio to Ultraviolet, or some other slightly shorter range ammo and get a DPS bonus by not having to use a 200km crystal when the enemy's only 170km away. More often than not though, most people are packing these, so it goes unused. In fleet-ops/gate camps it was nice to give the snipers some added support, but most often snipers are good enough without the bonus, and the addition of it doesn't add much.

I do find that it comes in handy for rail and beam laser cruisers and frigates however. With two optimal range scripts, you can turn an Harpy or Retribution into a much tougher destroyer. For wormhole ops, I generally stack both on our Retribution pilot and the sleeper frigates disappear soon after. You can sorta do the reverse with a cruiser by stacking tracking links, though it doesn't seem to be quite as effective.

I really like the idea of tracking links, and it would be nice to see them given a slight bump. Having them increase falloff in addition to the optimal bonus seems to me like it would be an excellent start.

Also, the remote sensor bonus seems like a good idea. If I remember correctly, one of the Gallente Recon ships already has this bonus in addition to it's dampener bonus, but it makes sense to move it to a logistics ship as the recons are flying more offensively as is.


 

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