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Chantilly Layce
Proper Villains
Posted - 2009.08.07 12:03:00 - [241]
 

NINJAz FOREVAH !!!!!

Erick Odin
Amarr
Local-Spike
Posted - 2009.08.07 12:51:00 - [242]
 

this whole idea of ninja salvaging being 'no risk.' Well, you risk your reputation. You risk a war declaration. I submit that your mission running is a no risk activity. Heck, I'll go so far as to say that ninja salvagers are your only real risk when you run missions. And now you want to remove it? Somehow I'm not surprised.


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.08.07 13:06:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
ITT: Hi-sec mission runners complaining about other people making lots of ISK with no risk.

Salliene
Gallente
Paktu Sjet Armada
Galactic System Lords Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.07 13:08:00 - [244]
 

I hate to see how people inflate figures so much in these arguments. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, they do it with everything else in the game.

Ninja salvaging is not some money printing machine. People who say that ninja salvaging offers tons of risk free money are lying to add weight to their own arguments. For a noob ninja salvaging is great money relative to their SP. But for any character older than 3 months there are many, many career options that offer far greater monetary reward. You could blitz level 3's in a BC and make more money than ninja salvaging level 4s.

Someone earlier also said that if you run missions in a hub that you are guaranteed to get invaded 50% of the time. I know this is a lie because I ninja in a hub, and the number of times I have been ninja'ing a mission and ANOTHER ninja shows up in the same mission has been exactly 2 times. If ninjas were as prevalent as people want CCP to believe, then ninjas would be bumping into other ninjas OFTEN.

If you want to get CCP to change salvaging, and that is your right as a player to do so, then offer FACTS and actual FIGURES. Not whines and opinions. CCP already knows about ninja salvagers, and they know that some people don't like them. But until you can come up with some sort of clear cut evidence that it is a game problem and not just a bunch of sour grapes and specious moral arguments, there is nothing that will be done.

Eldern Minderhost
Posted - 2009.08.07 13:45:00 - [245]
 

CCP... please please please make mission deadspaces like nullsec! I want to drench my hands in the carebear blood.

More seriously, it takes time and dedication to scan down missions; if you morons learned scanning mechanics and fit ECCM or flew smaller ships you would be harder to find. But nooo.... that would lower your efficiency and actually make the missions a challenge.

Missions are unbalanced. Nerf missions and you will nerf ninja salvaging, unless this is your concept of a good idea stop whining as calling for one is calling for the other. Rolling Eyes

Saint VII
Minmatar
Murientor Tribe
Posted - 2009.08.07 14:35:00 - [246]
 

Personally I think it should give you an aggression flag. In the meantime, people should move to less populous mission hubs or head out to losec. My friend and I have 500k and 1m skillpoints, respectively, and we have missioned in losec without ever getting killed. And I have never seen a ninja salv, but I guess that's because L2 missions are not worth the effort. :D

Bestofworst Worstofbest
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.08.07 14:42:00 - [247]
 

Like I said earlier in this thread.

Quote:
Again, the whole argument of Risk vs Reward is so over done that it makes me sick just to talk about it. But if you must compare the two:

Mission running:

Risk - Can get suicide ganked, can get ninja salvaged.
Reward - General saftey, can autopilot nearly everywhere between missions, great rewards.

Ninja Salvaging:

Reward - Salvage, maybe some tears.
Risk - Can warp in on a mission with crap salvage, can warp in on Recon 3 of 3, can have their wrecks blown up, can become hated and hunted ("IM HIRING MERCS AFTER U!").

But please, I know that whenever someone uses the Risk vs Reward argument, they only do it to remove their risk and just get a reward.

Novan Leon
Posted - 2009.08.07 17:07:00 - [248]
 

Question from someone inexperienced with this tactic:

When you probe a mission location, are you probing the location or are you actually probing the other player's ship using combat probes?

Kel Nissa
Posted - 2009.08.07 17:59:00 - [249]
 

You probe for the mission runner.

THE L0CK
Posted - 2009.08.07 18:35:00 - [250]
 

Originally by: Novan Leon
Question from someone inexperienced with this tactic:

When you probe a mission location, are you probing the location or are you actually probing the other player's ship using combat probes?


You can scan down drones, ships, or structures. Ships are by far the easiest. I can get a lock on a marauder in under ten seconds now since I usually start at 8au in my hub and the freaking things come in at 46% to start. After that I reduce range on the probes at once and zero in and bam, I found you.
On one occasion I did actually use a structure to track someone because for the life of me I just couldn't lock onto him specifically.

Novan Leon
Posted - 2009.08.07 18:40:00 - [251]
 

Originally by: THE L0CK
Originally by: Novan Leon
Question from someone inexperienced with this tactic:

When you probe a mission location, are you probing the location or are you actually probing the other player's ship using combat probes?


You can scan down drones, ships, or structures. Ships are by far the easiest. I can get a lock on a marauder in under ten seconds now since I usually start at 8au in my hub and the freaking things come in at 46% to start. After that I reduce range on the probes at once and zero in and bam, I found you.
On one occasion I did actually use a structure to track someone because for the life of me I just couldn't lock onto him specifically.


So the simple solution to this problem would be to make ships harder to get 100% lock on. Right now you can probe down ships in only a few seconds. If it took more effort, it might make this strategy less attractive.

Salliene
Gallente
Paktu Sjet Armada
Galactic System Lords Alliance
Posted - 2009.08.07 18:46:00 - [252]
 

Edited by: Salliene on 07/08/2009 18:47:35
Originally by: Novan Leon

So the simple solution to this problem would be to make ships harder to get 100% lock on. Right now you can probe down ships in only a few seconds. If it took more effort, it might make this strategy less attractive.


Your simple solution nerfs probing for the non-ninja salvaging crowd. The reason it only takes a "few seconds" to probe down a mission runner is because we are not looking for anyone specific. Mission runners are all clustered in a few systems around a few planets so we can use the "shotgun" approach. We don't care who we find, we just want to find SOMEONE and since they are all stacked on top of each other it is easy to do IN THAT SITUATION.

Finding an individual player, someone who is actively trying NOT to be probed, takes a lot longer than a few seconds. Making probing harder so that MR's stop whining is entirely unfair to the PVP crowd.

THE L0CK
Posted - 2009.08.07 18:46:00 - [253]
 

Edited by: THE L0CK on 07/08/2009 18:49:34
Originally by: Novan Leon
Originally by: THE L0CK
Originally by: Novan Leon
Question from someone inexperienced with this tactic:

When you probe a mission location, are you probing the location or are you actually probing the other player's ship using combat probes?


You can scan down drones, ships, or structures. Ships are by far the easiest. I can get a lock on a marauder in under ten seconds now since I usually start at 8au in my hub and the freaking things come in at 46% to start. After that I reduce range on the probes at once and zero in and bam, I found you.
On one occasion I did actually use a structure to track someone because for the life of me I just couldn't lock onto him specifically.


So the simple solution to this problem would be to make ships harder to get 100% lock on. Right now you can probe down ships in only a few seconds. If it took more effort, it might make this strategy less attractive.


I have ease for 2 reasons. 1: I trained the necessary skills pretty high and 2: Marauders are a beacon in space with their massive sig radius. Then battleships and exhumers, then BC's. But try scanning out a cruiser and smaller and its like trying to catch a fly on Meth in a football stadium.

In other words I'm good at what I do. When I started this profession I'd be lucky to find a moon.

And what the poster above said. Remember the carebear tears when missiles were changed? A fix affects everyone who uses that field. WH surveyors would find it harder to track them. Explorers would have trouble scanning down sights. Its unfair to them because the mission runners have an issue with one group.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.08.07 19:41:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: THE L0CK
Its unfair to them because the mission runners have a nonissue with one group.
Fixed.

It's a flawed "solution" to a problem that doesn't exist.

Maiga Deal
Posted - 2009.11.02 02:08:00 - [255]
 

As long as i'm running missions in high sec, more an more of these cheesy thieves appear, and also more often. Meanwhile it's annoying, but as long as this "profession" does'nt lead to an aggression flag, i'll rather kill all the wrecks than feed these morons.

Thargorr
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.11.02 02:43:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: Liz Laser
This topic is like watching two fat kids fight over who gets more whipped cream on their banana split, when what they should really do is eat their da*n vegetables.


This bit on page one should have been a genuine /thread. 9 pages? WTF happened?

Logit Probit
OIive OiI Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.02 03:59:00 - [257]
 

Anyone who asserted the need for any kind of a change in a post in this thread is part of the problem.

Annaphera
Minmatar
United Freemerchants Society
Posted - 2009.11.02 05:30:00 - [258]
 

One possible solution (not one I'd really be happy to see go in the game, but it would work) would be to give the mission rats a chance to 'detect' an active salvager and if they haven't taken damage, switch targets to the salvager. Make the salvagers work for their iskies, and fly ships with some tank. It could be explained away background-wise as the rats mistaking the discharge from the salvagers for a laser.

That said, the solution I personally advocate is to have an alt in a salvage-equipped BC or BS start cleaning up wrecks as soon as your main has all of the mission aggro. You may still lose some wrecks to ninja salvagers, but not many.

Marguerite Antiki
ANZAC ALLIANCE
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.02 05:38:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Logit Probit
Anyone who asserted the need for any kind of a change in a post in this thread is part of the problem.


So true considering this damned thread was posted - 2009.05.07 19:17:00 - was left to die on the 2009.08.07 and nublet Maiga Deal just brought it out again.

Yay I love these topics being beaten over and over..... /sarcasm.

Please. no more. it makes baby jebus cry....

Bloody Rabbit
Posted - 2009.11.02 06:53:00 - [260]
 

Originally by: Marguerite Antiki
Originally by: Logit Probit
Anyone who asserted the need for any kind of a change in a post in this thread is part of the problem.


So true considering this damned thread was posted - 2009.05.07 19:17:00 - was left to die on the 2009.08.07 and nublet Maiga Deal just brought it out again.

Yay I love these topics being beaten over and over..... /sarcasm.

Please. no more. it makes baby jebus cry....



I love tears, also I fit a scram on my mission running maga so I don't understand the problem. But I shoot anyone who enters my missions anyways.

Kazang
Wrecking Shots
Posted - 2009.11.02 07:30:00 - [261]
 

Edited by: Kazang on 02/11/2009 07:32:09
The risk in doing level 4's is non existent.

Then you say stealing from another player that then results in aggro with an enitre corp is risk free?

Dharh
Gallente
Ace Adventure Corp
Posted - 2009.11.02 07:56:00 - [262]
 

Edited by: Dharh on 02/11/2009 07:56:00
I'll keep saying until my face is blue with lack of oxygen. High sec needs to become more open. _All_ mission space should flag intruders with an aggression timer after a couple seconds. CONCORD should never interfere in mission space. All wrecks should be tractorable by anyone. All wrecks should be lootable/salvagable by anyone. When looted/salvaged all wrecks should cause faction decreases/aggression timers against the original faction/owner of the wreck _and_ the killer if its a ninja (in mission space this would be redundant). This aggression flag should last a long time.

Those who want to avoid pvp could still avoid it. But rats and ninjas would be open to attacks from more angles and be more vulnerable, as it should be.

High sec protects ninja salvager's too much and does not prepare anyone for low/null sec. It's high time CONCORD butt out everywhere except areas immediately around station space.

Decarus
Amarr
Apostlecorp inc.
Posted - 2009.11.02 08:47:00 - [263]
 

Edited by: Decarus on 02/11/2009 08:56:57
Edited by: Decarus on 02/11/2009 08:56:44
Originally by: #254 Tippia @ --> 2009.08.07 19:41:00 <--
Originally by: THE L0CK
Its unfair to them because the mission runners have a nonissue with one group.
Fixed.

It's a flawed "solution" to a problem that doesn't exist.


Originally by: #255 Maiga Deal @ --> 2009.11.02 02:08:00 <--
As long as i'm running missions in high sec, more an more of these cheesy thieves appear, and also more often. Meanwhile it's annoying, but as long as this "profession" does'nt lead to an aggression flag, i'll rather kill all the wrecks than feed these morons.


Considering the elitist attitude of most of eve players towards any non-eve player I find this general lack of forum sense, on these eve forums, to be honestly quite laughable.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.11.02 09:30:00 - [264]
 

Originally by: Dharh
I'll keep saying until my face is blue with lack of oxygen. High sec needs to become more open. _All_ mission space should flag intruders with an aggression timer after a couple seconds. CONCORD should never interfere in mission space.
Of course, with that kind of change, no flagging would be necessary to begin with… Wink
Quote:
Those who want to avoid pvp could still avoid it. But rats and ninjas would be open to attacks from more angles and be more vulnerable, as it should be.
It would also make mission-running largely obsolete, which isn't a good thing.
Quote:
High sec protects ninja salvager's too much and does not prepare anyone for low/null sec.
It protects the ninjas just as much as it protects the mission runners because neither party is doing anything "bad".

N Ano
Caldari
Templars of Space
Posted - 2009.11.02 09:45:00 - [265]
 

I saw this thread and my palm met my face. Neutral

Ashani Osaka
Amarr
Ethereal Acolytes
Posted - 2009.11.02 09:55:00 - [266]
 

waa waa waa, if a ninja warps in, u warp out.

there now u have +1 wreck. YARRRR!!

Casimir Fenring
Posted - 2009.11.02 10:31:00 - [267]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
I think an interesting solution would be to make deadspace a complete free-fire zone. Effectively a nerf to both missioning and ninja salvaging while fair to both, and it would make empire interesting.

I run missions and I hate it. But I hate all the other ways of making money even more. If they could be spiced up and have them be nerfed a bit to make mining more profitable (as it should be), that would work out for everyone. And then the people who are afraid of fighting can go mine veldespar, as they should.


SO bring PvP to PvE? Mission running is a means to wealth without engaging in PVP combat, which many, myself included, don't care for. It also give people the time and ISK they need to develop the skills needed to succeed in lo/no-sec space, skills which give me a better chance of NOT being slagged by the pimply-faced gits that infest lo/no-sec, which is what I'm doing now.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.11.02 10:33:00 - [268]
 

Originally by: Casimir Fenring
It also give people the time and ISK they need to develop the skills needed to succeed in lo/no-sec space, skills which give me a better chance of NOT being slagged by the pimply-faced gits that infest lo/no-sec, which is what I'm doing now.
No. Time spent on doing missions will not let you develop those skills. Neutral

N Ano
Caldari
Templars of Space
Posted - 2009.11.02 10:38:00 - [269]
 

Originally by: Casimir Fenring
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
I think an interesting solution would be to make deadspace a complete free-fire zone. Effectively a nerf to both missioning and ninja salvaging while fair to both, and it would make empire interesting.

I run missions and I hate it. But I hate all the other ways of making money even more. If they could be spiced up and have them be nerfed a bit to make mining more profitable (as it should be), that would work out for everyone. And then the people who are afraid of fighting can go mine veldespar, as they should.


SO bring PvP to PvE? Mission running is a means to wealth without engaging in PVP combat, which many, myself included, don't care for. It also give people the time and ISK they need to develop the skills needed to succeed in lo/no-sec space, skills which give me a better chance of NOT being slagged by the pimply-faced gits that infest lo/no-sec, which is what I'm doing now.


Eve is a game where PVP and player interaction are a daily thing. You agree to both those things the second you log in. Rolling Eyes

nafiy gnaw
Posted - 2009.11.02 11:33:00 - [270]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Casimir Fenring
It also give people the time and ISK they need to develop the skills needed to succeed in lo/no-sec space, skills which give me a better chance of NOT being slagged by the pimply-faced gits that infest lo/no-sec, which is what I'm doing now.
No. Time spent on doing missions will not let you develop those skills. Neutral


I think he means skill points.


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