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Gallente
Posted - 2009.05.07 21:30:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: dankness420
i think the truth is that if you are living in empire to begin with you are a carebear

instanced pvp is the last thing this game needs




Au contraire, I believe that little "fight boxes" in each system could be just what this game needs - "Two go in, one comes out!"

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2009.05.07 21:32:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: dankness420

instanced pvp is the last thing this game needs


How is it any more instanced than flipping a can?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.07 21:36:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Isakova
Yes nice cut and paste.

Completely overlooking my point.

Ninja salvaging in mission deadspace is pretty much consequence free, not in an asteroid belt.


So is missioning in a deadspace. I fail to see the cause for complaint, unless it is perhaps "oh has it been 2 weeks since the last thread complaining about salvage "theft" already?".

If you don't want anyone taking "your" salvage, mission outside hi-sec.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.07 21:39:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Junko Togawa
Here's an idea.

1)Change all missions to mission deadspace, requiring the passing of an acceleration gate.
2)Make it impossible to pass an acceleration gate unless you are the person who accepted the mission or are fleeted with the person who has it.
3)Remove flagging for can theft on wrecks spawned in mission deadspace and make it possible for anyone to tractor them.
4)Make it possible to scan down and warp to wrecks.

Result: Those who want to keep their loot and salvage secure can return to the mission deadspace before turn-in and clean up. Those who do not can turn in their mission, and the scavengers can then fight amongst each other over who gets the leftovers.

Summation: Happy carebears get safe salvage, true salvagers get a new abundance of wrecks unlike any other, gankbears looking to grief runners get to emorage on forums for my lulz. ugh


I accept this proposal as long as mission rewards and bounties are decreased proportionately with the reduction in risk. About a 95% cut would seem to be appropriate.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2009.05.07 21:41:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
If you don't want anyone taking "your" salvage, mission outside hi-sec.



This. By moving all level 4s to lowsec, we solve two problems at once: no more free zero-risk ISK, and no more salvage theft problem.

Overseer Aliena
Caldari
Posted - 2009.05.07 21:45:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Malcanis
If you don't want anyone taking "your" salvage, mission outside hi-sec.



This. By moving all level 4s to lowsec, we solve two problems at once: no more free zero-risk ISK, and no more salvage theft problem.


Ahem, obvious move to L3's/emoragequit answers inc....

Bruno Capri
Minmatar
Jamaican Zombie Flying Squad
Posted - 2009.05.07 22:11:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Weight What
Originally by: dankness420
i think the truth is that if you are living in empire to begin with you are a carebear

instanced pvp is the last thing this game needs




Au contraire, I believe that little "fight boxes" in each system could be just what this game needs - "Two go in, one comes out!"


PvP is rarely 1 vs 1... Besides, if you want a little action just probe a wormhole out in hi-sec, bingo insta-pvp Razz

Dzil
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2009.05.07 22:17:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Isakova
I don't know what to suggest as its a fun game mechanic, but its completely risk free, ridiculously easy to do, and in many cases highly profitable. L4 mission loot and salvage without the investment in ships / time / standing gains/losses to get them. I tried it with my second account while running an L4 mission and it was easy. This is far too open for abuse, and is getting to the point where theres 2 ninjas for every 10 mission runner in a hub.


Never been ninja salvaged personally, so I think you're blowing it out of proportion. I have no problem with this, it's providing exactly the kind of non-ccp intervention solution I'd hoped for: in low sec you could shoot him before he looted your 10m isk module and fled, and would probably be carrying a warp scram. If there's really 2 /10 in your hub, start running with a scrambler. Or hire someone to loot for you. Or just continue to QQ that your isk printing, never exhausting resource of l4 missions got slightly less profitable.

*hint* fly a drake, they don't bother to scan down drakes, they look for battleships.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.05.07 22:17:00 - [39]
 

Quote:
ecause noone can aggro them, and if they choose to steal some nice drop, they will be away before they've even lost 50% shields because no mission runner carries a scram.


Then fit one.

Doug Dread
Minmatar
Engineers Without Remorse Corporation
Posted - 2009.05.07 22:21:00 - [40]
 

Just think of the ninja looters as your tax for all the security you get by missioning in high sec.

Seriously, you have practically no risk when you set your ship up properly for the mission (heck you even know what to expect in every mission before you get there). Since there is no official concord tax for all their overpowered security (a good idea I read elsewhere on these forums), we can consider the ninja salvagers your tax men.

Grow a pair and live with it.

Michael Corinthos
Amarr
Posted - 2009.05.07 22:31:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: THE L0CK
I feel I belong in this thread.


lol

Fairren
Posted - 2009.05.07 22:37:00 - [42]
 

Mission runners have nothing to complain about. I say this as a month runner myself.

Serra Polaris
Posted - 2009.05.07 23:38:00 - [43]
 

I used to ninja salvage back in my earlier days and one thing I've heard a lot from mission runners and pilots in local is that you can make more isk/hour if you just leave your unsalvaged wrecks and start a new mission. I've never really done missions myself, but in the month or so that I ninja salvaged in Sivala, whenever I entered the mission room there was usually no one in there or they were just finishing up. Sivala seems to be full of bot-like hardcore Raven mission runners, so they probably know what they are doing. So the solution is to ignore your wrecks and make more isk by ending the mission and doing a new one. Plus if you actually stick around and salvage you're just increasing that chance that someone will probe you down.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2009.05.08 00:03:00 - [44]
 

Many times it's sad to leave so much metal floating around, wondering if it will go to waste.

I think the best solution would be a timer on the wreck. Salvage it after a certain amount of time and it's ok, missioner present or not. Before that: CONCORDinated.

This allows us non-salvaging "I ain't got time" types have the option at least and let's the salvagers exercise a little patience that would be rewarding. Everybody gets what they wants, nobody has to be a weenie.



Bullageddon
Caldari
Posted - 2009.05.08 02:31:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Junko Togawa
Here's an idea.

1)Change all missions to mission deadspace, requiring the passing of an acceleration gate.
2)Make it impossible to pass an acceleration gate unless you are the person who accepted the mission or are fleeted with the person who has it.
3)Remove flagging for can theft on wrecks spawned in mission deadspace and make it possible for anyone to tractor them.
4)Make it possible to scan down and warp to wrecks.

Result: Those who want to keep their loot and salvage secure can return to the mission deadspace before turn-in and clean up. Those who do not can turn in their mission, and the scavengers can then fight amongst each other over who gets the leftovers.

Summation: Happy carebears get safe salvage, true salvagers get a new abundance of wrecks unlike any other, gankbears looking to grief runners get to emorage on forums for my lulz. ugh


"Wah I want risk free iskies!"

There's risk in all aspects of money making in this game, even salvaging. The salvager is just the risk mission runners have to live with.

deal with it, move on.

ISHKUR MASTER
Gallente
Posted - 2009.05.08 02:42:00 - [46]
 

GB2WOW

Seriously



Divide up space, hmmm, think about it for a sec, space simulator.

Space, wide and open, do you see fences stopping you from flying somewhere? No, then why should the "Ninja Salvager/Prober" be stopped, he's really a rubbish collection agent, No?

Be thankfull CCP gives you rights to the items in the cargo of the poor Rat you just killed, Just because you pillage the wrecks doesn't mean it belongs to you.

Grow a set.


Jer Bu
Posted - 2009.05.08 03:04:00 - [47]
 

Solution does not need to be complicated. Let me shoot at someone who salvages a wreck I created. Let me choose whether to engage or not. It might even force me to refit a little more PvP on my missions...Everyone wins.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.05.08 03:16:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Jer Bu
Solution does not need to be complicated. Let me shoot at someone who salvages a wreck I created. Let me choose whether to engage or not. It might even force me to refit a little more PvP on my missions...Everyone wins.


The floating scraps that constitute the wreck are not yours. If you want to choose whether to engage or not, mission in lowsec or 0.0.

Jer Bu
Posted - 2009.05.08 03:41:00 - [49]
 

Everyone doesn't win in that case dumb dumb.


Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.05.08 03:52:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Jer Bu
Everyone doesn't win in that case dumb dumb.




Can you explain how ninjasalvagers win in your example?

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.05.08 04:07:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Serra Polaris
I've heard a lot from mission runners and pilots in local is that you can make more isk/hour if you just leave your unsalvaged wrecks and start a new mission.


This only becomes true when it is faster for you to blow up battleships than to salvage them. Salvaging takes 20 seconds (1 cycle). If you can blow up a battleship in mission-space faster than this, it's time to stop salvaging. Then again, when you have that level of firepower you're probably flying a marauder and are salvaging battleship wrecks as you go.


Jer Bu
Posted - 2009.05.08 04:20:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Originally by: Jer Bu
Everyone doesn't win in that case dumb dumb.




Can you explain how ninjasalvagers win in your example?


Yup, Its simple. They get the rush of playing the game with some risk (like every other thing you do in eve). You finally give them some excitement around their chosen profession.

And best yet, it stops people like yourself from coming to threads like this and using the the excuse "because CCP let it be that way" as an argument for why another way might not be better.

NO aggression for salvaging wrecks might be the way it currently works, but that certainly does not mean it is the best way. Just the current way.

Motoko Inozowa
Gallente
0REC0RE
Posted - 2009.05.08 04:56:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Isakova
What amuses me is ninja high sec salvagers using the word carebear as an insult. Seriously, 0 risk mission runner griefing - how much more carebear can you get? Take that **** to low sec? Didn't think so.


If you only knew what griefing was. A salvager ending up in your mission isn't griefing. it's a profession. He does it, and moves on to the next guy. that isn't griefing.

the same guy following you into more missions, THAT's griefing.

Serra Polaris
Posted - 2009.05.08 05:24:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Serra Polaris
I've heard a lot from mission runners and pilots in local is that you can make more isk/hour if you just leave your unsalvaged wrecks and start a new mission.


This only becomes true when it is faster for you to blow up battleships than to salvage them. Salvaging takes 20 seconds (1 cycle). If you can blow up a battleship in mission-space faster than this, it's time to stop salvaging. Then again, when you have that level of firepower you're probably flying a marauder and are salvaging battleship wrecks as you go.




I suppose, but there are other factors like how far away the wrecks are and whether or not you can actually salvage each one in one cycle. Sounds like you'd have one tractor beam and one salvager in the highs, which could have been used for more guns/launchers (assuming you can fit more).

Without tractor beams, ninja salvaging/looting an entire mission can take a long time even when zipping around in a frigate.

Wet Ferret
Posted - 2009.05.08 06:54:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Isakova
I guarantee if you do 10 missions in a l4 hub, near half of them would be interrupted.


I guarantee that if you do 10 missions outside of a hub, exactly zero of them will be interrupted.

Now can we move on to the next topic please.

Junko Togawa
Caldari
Posted - 2009.05.08 06:57:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Tippia
In other words, a poor solution I'm a gankbear.

Originally by: Malcanis
I accept this proposal as long as mission rewards and bounties are decreased proportionately with the reduction in risk. About a 95 0% cut would seem to be appropriate.

Originally by: Bullageddon

"Wah I want risk free iskies KB padding!"

There's risk in all aspects of money making in this game, even salvaging griefbaiting. The salvager gankbear is just the risk mission runners have to live with.

deal with it, move ondon't nerf me, I fail at EvE.

There, I fix them for u. Is moar akkurats nao. ugh

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.08 07:00:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Many times it's sad to leave so much metal floating around, wondering if it will go to waste.

I think the best solution would be a timer on the wreck. Salvage it after a certain amount of time and it's ok, missioner present or not. Before that: CONCORDinated.

This allows us non-salvaging "I ain't got time" types have the option at least and let's the salvagers exercise a little patience that would be rewarding. Everybody gets what they wants, nobody has to be a weenie.





CONCORDED for salvaging a wreck? That seems a little inadequate. CCP should delete ther account, then send a ninja round to kill ther family.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.08 07:10:00 - [58]
 

Actually perhaps the best 'compromise' would be to remove salvage from mission wrecks altogether. It would have the merit of stopping these stupid threads on a subject that multiple CCP devs have already commented on with the same answer: no flagging for salvaging.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.05.08 07:30:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 08/05/2009 07:35:13
Originally by: Isakova
I guarantee if you do 10 missions in a l4 hub, near half of them would be interrupted.
No. And I would know, because I do missions in just about all of them. I was last interrupted in July… (in Dodixie no less — hello fellas! Razz)
Originally by: Junko Togawa
I can't present a coherent argument because I know I'm wrong and don't know how to play EVE Embarassed
Counter-fixed.
Originally by: Jer Bu
Solution does not need to be complicated. Let me shoot at someone who salvages a wreck I created. Let me choose whether to engage or not. It might even force me to refit a little more PvP on my missions...Everyone wins.
Here's a better solution: stop assuming you're entitled to anything other than your insurance payout in a PvP game. If you can't beat the other guy to the wreck, even though you are first on site and even though know exactly when and where it's going to pop into existance, you're doing something horribly wrong. If you can't beat the other guy to the punch, you didn't deserve it.

Schalac
Caldari
Apocalypse Reign
Posted - 2009.05.08 07:42:00 - [60]
 

If you see a cov ops in your mission just lock it and warp out the main tank. Agro will then be divided between you and the ninja and he won't be able to cloak. Just make sure that the ship you lock him with can take a few hits while the cov ops either warps out or gets destroyed, an since this is high sec chances are the pod will sit there long enough to get into a blaster fit destroyer and pop his pod while he *****es in local about the loss of the cov ops.


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