open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Is ninja looting an oversight in view of the nerf hammer?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 15 ... : last (16)

Author Topic

tx eight
Minmatar
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2009.11.03 10:51:00 - [301]
 

I enjoyed reading this thread, thank you.

I will now take my stupidly overtanked WH scimitar, slap some t2 salvagers on and go try it myself. Thanks to all mission-running crybabies for the inspiration.

Laughing

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.03 11:27:00 - [302]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
It should be possible to steal mission runners' ships as well as their loot. Hacking V, activate module, board ship and shoot carebear in face.


In my secret thoughts, this is what ambulation leads to.YARRRR!!

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2009.11.03 16:41:00 - [303]
 

Edited by: goodby4u on 03/11/2009 17:08:12
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: goodby4u
Let us say for instance somebody runs over and takes your stuff, would you not wish to have the ability to kill him/her?
…and as it happens, you can already do this.
Quote:
Ninja salvaging is just the same as taking loot from a wreck, the only difference is you need to activate a module to do it.
So it's different in that you have to activate a module to earn it. Except, of course, that it isn't different from loot in that way — in fact, it's exactly like loot in that way, which is what explains why the loot is yours and the salvage isnt:

Activate weapon → creates loot → loot is yours.
Activate salvager → creates salvage → salvage is yours.

Notice how activating a weapon doesn't create salvage? If it's not you, specifically, who activates that salvager, why on earth should the salvage be yours? You didn't create it.
No

Activate weapon - creates wreck - wreck has my name on it it should be mine.

Salvaging it should mean your stealing from my wreck, because you are.

I really don't see the problem with my idea, all it does is give the mission runner the ability to defend his wrecks, which even have his corp/alliance name on them... It is like me telling you that you should get concorded for stealing loot in highsec.

As far as hacking goes, I would be completely against all of this.

If in hangers, then one would lose one's ships not through one's own stupidity but due to a stupid game mechanic.... And instead of being able to lose your ship in battle having fun, by definition somebody hacks your ships and takes them, which is not fun at all.

If in battle, it can be a game breaker.

Say two megathrons are fighting eachother, one hacks the other and by chance wins and grabs the enemy megathron, he wins the fight with a completely chance based weapon.

So either it will be such a small chance nobody will use the hacking module, or it will be such a large chance that battles will be composed of two opposing ships spamming the hack button hoping to win, incredibly boring tbh.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.11.03 17:17:00 - [304]
 

Originally by: goodby4u
Activate weapon - creates wreck - wreck has my name on it it should be mine.
Wreck has your name on it because the contents are yours. Salvage isn't part of those contents. Why should you get ownership of it when you haven't done a thing to earn it? Put another way: if you want to effortlessly own the salvage as well, what will you give up in return? The loot? The sec status? The bounty?
Quote:
Salvaging it should mean your stealing from my wreck, because you are.
Not really, no. I'm beating you to a free-for-all resource, same as if I mine the same asteroid as you.
Quote:
I really don't see the problem with my idea, all it does is give the mission runner the ability to defend his wrecks
…which he already can do. That's the problem: you're trying to solve something that isn't a problem.

Yosarian
Koshaku
Posted - 2009.11.03 18:02:00 - [305]
 

If people really wanted a challenge, they'd have no issue with salvaging a wreck setting the aggression timer. To call people carebears then claim that 'ninja' salvaging as-is is a good mechanic is self defeating.

- Have salvaging a wreck (not destroyed by you) flag aggression

- Up the aggression timer for salvaging and looting to considerably more than 15 minutes. 4hrs? 24hrs?

Cir Loin
Posted - 2009.11.03 18:06:00 - [306]
 

Originally by: Yosarian
If people really wanted a challenge, they'd have no issue with salvaging a wreck setting the aggression timer. To call people carebears then claim that 'ninja' salvaging as-is is a good mechanic is self defeating.

- Have salvaging a wreck (not destroyed by you) flag aggression



All this would do is create organized groups of people who made it their job to salvage a wreck, draw aggression, then blast you out of the sky. Then we'd have endless threads of people whining about how "ninja salvagers have made mission running unsafe!" The people who whine about salvaging ultimately seem to want instanced missions.

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2009.11.03 18:11:00 - [307]
 

Edited by: goodby4u on 03/11/2009 18:12:17
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: goodby4u
Activate weapon - creates wreck - wreck has my name on it it should be mine.
Wreck has your name on it because the contents are yours. Salvage isn't part of those contents. Why should you get ownership of it when you haven't done a thing to earn it? Put another way: if you want to effortlessly own the salvage as well, what will you give up in return? The loot? The sec status? The bounty?
Quote:
Salvaging it should mean your stealing from my wreck, because you are.
Not really, no. I'm beating you to a free-for-all resource, same as if I mine the same asteroid as you.
Quote:
I really don't see the problem with my idea, all it does is give the mission runner the ability to defend his wrecks
…which he already can do. That's the problem: you're trying to solve something that isn't a problem.
My name is on the wreck, this means I claim the wreck itself including the contents within, why the hell doesn't this make sense to you?

What shall I give up?

Well here is the question, since risk vs reward is suppose to be the driving force in eve, where is the risk for you?

For the mission runner, the risk is you can come along and salvage the phat lootz, which would still be in place if salvaging my wreck gives me the ability to kill you... The only difference is you must suffer some risk aswell and you do not like that.

I didn't create the asteroid, I have no claim on that resource, however I did create the wreck... This is the difference.

As for the poster above, ofcourse it will, it would also mean the game is much more interesting for everybody involved and thus would be great.

Cir Loin
Posted - 2009.11.03 18:18:00 - [308]
 

Originally by: goodby4u
My name is on the wreck, this means I claim the wreck itself including the contents within, why the hell doesn't this make sense to you?

I dunno, why doesn't the concept of salvage as defined within the game make sense to you?

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2009.11.03 18:22:00 - [309]
 

Originally by: Cir Loin
Originally by: goodby4u
My name is on the wreck, this means I claim the wreck itself including the contents within, why the hell doesn't this make sense to you?

I dunno, why doesn't the concept of salvage as defined within the game make sense to you?
Based off that argument, I could say gankageddons/nanophoons/cavalry ravens/dreads that oneshot poses were fine and I shouldn't be complaining.

Just because something was introduced to a game, doesn't necessarily mean it is set in stone or balanced.

Cir Loin
Posted - 2009.11.03 18:54:00 - [310]
 

Originally by: goodby4u
Originally by: Cir Loin
Originally by: goodby4u
My name is on the wreck, this means I claim the wreck itself including the contents within, why the hell doesn't this make sense to you?

I dunno, why doesn't the concept of salvage as defined within the game make sense to you?
Based off that argument, I could say gankageddons/nanophoons/cavalry ravens/dreads that oneshot poses were fine and I shouldn't be complaining.

Just because something was introduced to a game, doesn't necessarily mean it is set in stone or balanced.


When you make an actual apples to apples comparison, your argument may make sense. Until then, *wahhh my salvage!*

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2009.11.03 19:22:00 - [311]
 

Actually I don't salvage, I just blitz.

I couldn't care less what happens to said salvage... However I think you should be at risk for getting such reward.

Cir Loin
Posted - 2009.11.03 19:26:00 - [312]
 

Originally by: goodby4u
Actually I don't salvage, I just blitz.

I couldn't care less what happens to said salvage... However I think you should be at risk for getting such reward.


So you're whining about something you don't care about? That's sort of awesome.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.03 19:36:00 - [313]
 

Originally by: goodby4u
Actually I don't salvage, I just blitz.

I couldn't care less what happens to said salvage... However I think you should be at risk for getting such reward.


What risks are you taking?

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2009.11.03 19:42:00 - [314]
 

Edited by: goodby4u on 03/11/2009 19:43:00
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: goodby4u
Actually I don't salvage, I just blitz.

I couldn't care less what happens to said salvage... However I think you should be at risk for getting such reward.


What risks are you taking?
I could get killed by rats or my salvage could be taken, sure token risks but this is up against his complete lack of risk.

Hell adding aggro to salvaging wouldn't be a buff at all, it will simply make it risky to take somebody's salvage and as I have said make the game alot more interesting as a result.

Who said I was whining? I am simply sending forth a way to add danger to the action of stealing somebody's salvage.

N00byn00blar
Posted - 2009.11.03 19:49:00 - [315]
 

I agree with above poster but also I think the current mechanic is pretty much pointless apart from it has some ability to generate frustration/annoyance in the mission runner. Well, that's why the "ninja salvagers" do it (maybe there are some running it for profit, but not many), as they admit many times in this thread and others. imho a game mechanic that is just there so that one group of players can ass-hat another, is really in need of some attention.

Benedict Carol
Posted - 2009.11.03 19:53:00 - [316]
 

Good lord, this thread is still ongoing?

Annaphera
Minmatar
United Freemerchants Society
Posted - 2009.11.03 20:13:00 - [317]
 

Edited by: Annaphera on 03/11/2009 20:14:41
After thinking about it, I'd like to see CCP make two small tweaks to mission running/ninja salvaging:

1) To add at least a bit of risk to the mission runners, how about they tweak the AI on the rats to something more like the Sleepers, and add more scramblers? Why not give each pirate faction slightly different behaviors that get more intelligent the higher the mission level goes? Guristas already jam, and in some missions they almost seem to take turns; formalize that. Give the others their own real behaviors...maybe one primaries drones like the Sleepers, another jumps on anyone using a logistics mod, and so on.

2) To keep the ninja's on their toes and give the MR's that don't have/can't afford an alt a fair shot at the loot, make rats that haven't been aggro'd aggress against anyone using a salvager at a decent range. I've had ninjas race my salvage alt to wrecks, and I sort of feel bad for anyone without one. Once they (the MR) have aggro, the ninjas are pretty much free to do whatever they want without any risk at all; even taking the loot is near risk-free if the MR is tanking a 5+ BS rats. Before anyone says it, PvE fit =/= PvP fit, and with some of those missions you'd cripple yourself if you put a scram and a way to chase down a frig on your mission ship.

Again, before the flames start - I'm not advocating stopping the ninja salvagers, and CCP has said they support it as a mini-profession. I'd just like to see it become a bit more of a challenge and give the MR's at least a semi-fair shot at those wrecks they made, and the loot that goes with them. Anyone here who tries to say that ninja salvagers don't take the best loot more often than not is being naive. Anyone who tries to say that most ninja 'salvagers' don't have a larger (likely t2) PvP-fit ship docked nearby and thus WANT the mission runner to shoot at them is just not being honest.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.11.03 20:36:00 - [318]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 03/11/2009 20:43:02
Originally by: goodby4u
Originally by: Malcanis
What risks are you taking?
I could get killed by rats
No you do not.
Quote:
or my salvage could be taken
Right. So the ninjas are in fact facing the exact same risks as you do, so what is the problem here? Why should the ninjas face more risk than you do, especially considering the higher effort they already have to put in?
Quote:
it will simply make it risky to take somebody's salvage
It already is — stealing someone's salvage gives you aggression.
Quote:
Who said I was whining?
You did, by advocating a change for no good reason.
Originally by: Annaphera
2) To keep the ninja's on their toes and give the MR's that don't have/can't afford an alt a fair shot at the loot,
Let's stop right there. Mission runners already have a fair shot at the loot — more than a fair shot, in fact. They have every advantage they could get, and if they squander that, it's their own fault and their problem. You have zero need for an alt to do that.
Quote:
I'd just like to see it become a bit more of a challenge and give the MR's at least a semi-fair shot at those wrecks they made, and the loot that goes with them.
They are already on-site. They have complete control over where and when wrecks will appear. They can tractor the wrecks. They get kill rights if someone steals from the wrecks… The only way for an MR not to have far more than "a semi-fair shot" already is if he's a complete idiot.

Annaphera
Minmatar
United Freemerchants Society
Posted - 2009.11.03 21:19:00 - [319]
 

Originally by: Tippia

Originally by: Annaphera
2) To keep the ninja's on their toes and give the MR's that don't have/can't afford an alt a fair shot at the loot,
Let's stop right there. Mission runners already have a fair shot at the loot — more than a fair shot, in fact. They have every advantage they could get, and if they squander that, it's their own fault and their problem. You have zero need for an alt to do that.
Yes, because while the MR is tanking multiple BS's and a swarm of smaller ships, they always have plenty of cap left to AB around and turn a salvager on those wrecks. If the ship they are in has enough high slots for a tractor and salvager and the CPU and PG to squeeze it in; that goes double for the AB. Quite a few ninja salvagers that I have seen take that as the perfect time to pick up the choice bits of loot as well, while the MR doesn't have the resources to stop them. News Flash: not all MR's can afford a CNR or a Golem!
Originally by: Tippia
Quote:
I'd just like to see it become a bit more of a challenge and give the MR's at least a semi-fair shot at those wrecks they made, and the loot that goes with them.
They are already on-site. They have complete control over where and when wrecks will appear. They can tractor the wrecks. They get kill rights if someone steals from the wrecks… The only way for an MR not to have far more than "a semi-fair shot" already is if he's a complete idiot.
There are multiple 'rooms' in many missions, so the MR isn't always the only one 'already on-site. I've seen ninjas sitting outside stations that have L4 agents trying to guess the direction an MR is headed to make them easier to scan down...they can find you fairly fast.

'Complete control' is often 'try and pop them before they get close', so it is often well beyond tractor range. Or did you forget we were talking about PvE fits that usually pack long-range weapons and count on them to avoid damage? Most MR ships are NOT blaster boats! Since the ninja could very well be there from the moment you get aggro in the second 'room' in a mission, they can pick choice bits of loot while you're still trying to tank the rest of the room, making going after them tough. See the first part of this response regarding the wisdom of trying to use AB's, tractors and salvagers while an active tank is running. Again, not all MR's fly Golems, so how exactly do we tractor those wrecks at 40 km, or race the frigate-flying ninja to them in a battleship?

Oh, and did you miss the part where a lot of ninjas have PvP fit ships or friends on standby, and thus WANT the MR to shoot at their frigate? Makes opening fire less than desirable, don't you think? As in, you'd have to be a complete idiot to take the shot or be willing to warp away as soon as he pops and hide in a station until the aggression timer runs out, while he cleans up the rest of the wrecks?

Also, please recall that I was advocating making the missions harder as well, and kindly tone down the superior attitude.

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2009.11.03 21:20:00 - [320]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 03/11/2009 20:43:02
Originally by: goodby4u
Originally by: Malcanis
What risks are you taking?
I could get killed by rats
No you do not.
Quote:
or my salvage could be taken
Right. So the ninjas are in fact facing the exact same risks as you do, so what is the problem here? Why should the ninjas face more risk than you do, especially considering the higher effort they already have to put in?
Quote:
it will simply make it risky to take somebody's salvage
It already is — stealing someone's salvage gives you aggression.
Quote:
Who said I was whining?
You did, by advocating a change for no good reason.

When was the last time a ninja got ninja'd? They do not face the same risks the mission runner does.... And there is risk of losing one's ship in a mission, the only reason solo lvl 4 runners don't is because they are educated enough not to die.

So if someone swoops down to my wreck, salvages it, I can shoot them without being concorded? If not then I cannot.

No good reason? There are a number of reasons I have already stated, chief of those is adding risk to the person taking the missioners salvage.

Cory Sopapilla
Minmatar
Kiroshi Group
Posted - 2009.11.03 21:21:00 - [321]
 

Originally by: Cir Loin
Originally by: Yosarian
If people really wanted a challenge, they'd have no issue with salvaging a wreck setting the aggression timer. To call people carebears then claim that 'ninja' salvaging as-is is a good mechanic is self defeating.

- Have salvaging a wreck (not destroyed by you) flag aggression



All this would do is create organized groups of people who made it their job to salvage a wreck, draw aggression, then blast you out of the sky. Then we'd have endless threads of people whining about how "ninja salvagers have made mission running unsafe!" The people who whine about salvaging ultimately seem to want instanced missions.


I don't buy that for a minute. Carebears are asking for more PVP and the PVPers are arguing against it to hide behind Concord. If what you said were true, they'd already have organized groups stealing loot rather than salvage to draw them in with the red blinky aggression. Instead they avoid the loot and hide behind concord while leeching since they know a lvl 4 mission fit is not suicide gank fit or profitable on insurance loss. We want more explosions!

Cir Loin
Posted - 2009.11.03 21:26:00 - [322]
 

Originally by: Cory Sopapilla


I don't buy that for a minute. Carebears are asking for more PVP and the PVPers are arguing against it to hide behind Concord. If what you said were true, they'd already have organized groups stealing loot rather than salvage to draw them in with the red blinky aggression. Instead they avoid the loot and hide behind concord while leeching since they know a lvl 4 mission fit is not suicide gank fit or profitable on insurance loss. We want more explosions!


*You* might, but I suspect a lot of the people who run missions full time do not, or they would mission in low sec.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.11.03 21:44:00 - [323]
 

Originally by: goodby4u
When was the last time a ninja got ninja'd? They do not face the same risks the mission runner does....
They face the exact same risk: that someone else (eg. the MR) beats them to the wreck.
Quote:
And there is risk of losing one's ship in a mission
…which has nothing to do with the risk of collecting salvage.
Quote:
So if someone swoops down to my wreck, salvages it, I can shoot them without being concorded? If not then I cannot.
No, but if someone steals your salvage, you can.
Quote:
No good reason? There are a number of reasons I have already stated.
No. Those are just your misunderstandings about how things should work — not a reason to change how they work. You need to provide a reason why missions need to be buffed. You need to provide a reason why MRs are incapable of using they many means at their disposal to win the competition over salvage. You need to explain why competing over salvage is a bad thing. You need to explain why ninjas aren't entitled to what they've worked for (worked harder, I might once again add, than the MR).
Originally by: Annaphera
Yes, because while the MR is tanking multiple BS's and a swarm of smaller ships, they always have plenty of cap left to AB around and turn a salvager on those wrecks. If the ship they are in has enough high slots for a tractor and salvager and the CPU and PG to squeeze it in; that goes double for the AB.
By the time they can properly run L4s, yes. Yes they have. If they don't, then it's once again their problem that they haven't fitted their ships properly to win the competition over resources. If a miner puts smartbombs in all his high slots and then complains that everyone else keeps mining out the asteroids, what would you tell him?
Quote:
There are multiple 'rooms' in many missions, so the MR isn't always the only one 'already on-site.
That's his choice. If he chooses not to take advantage of it, then that's his problem (and a very easy problem to avoid).
Quote:
'Complete control' is often 'try and pop them before they get close', so it is often well beyond tractor range.
His choice, his problem, very easy to avoid.

Traidor Disloyal
Private Nuisance
Segregati0n
Posted - 2009.11.03 21:52:00 - [324]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Activate weapon → creates loot → loot is yours.
Activate salvager → creates salvage → salvage is yours.

This needs to be put in big bold letters somewhere. Even someone has slow has myself can understand this.

Plim
Gallente
Everything Financial
Posted - 2009.11.03 22:00:00 - [325]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Activate weapon → creates loot → loot is yours.
Activate weapon → creates wreck → Activate salvager → creates salvage → salvage is yours.




Annaphera
Minmatar
United Freemerchants Society
Posted - 2009.11.03 22:30:00 - [326]
 

Originally by: Tippia

Originally by: Annaphera
Yes, because while the MR is tanking multiple BS's and a swarm of smaller ships, they always have plenty of cap left to AB around and turn a salvager on those wrecks. If the ship they are in has enough high slots for a tractor and salvager and the CPU and PG to squeeze it in; that goes double for the AB.
By the time they can properly run L4s, yes. Yes they have. If they don't, then it's once again their problem that they haven't fitted their ships properly to win the competition over resources. If a miner puts smartbombs in all his high slots and then complains that everyone else keeps mining out the asteroids, what would you tell him?
Ah, so we're all supposed to wait until we can run level 4's "properly", then we won't have this problem, eh? What exactly is "proper" for level 4's? A marauder? That's a lot of isk to gather if we can't do level 4's...

I do have a way to "win the competition for resources", one that you dismissed arrogantly a post or so ago - an alt in a salvage fitted ship. I win most of those resource fights, actually, and more thoroughly than I would if I only had one or two tractors and salvagers. However, spending RL cash isn't a solution everyone has open to them, and anything that requires either that or waiting for a Golem is a bit outlandish.


Originally by: Tippia
Quote:
There are multiple 'rooms' in many missions, so the MR isn't always the only one 'already on-site.
That's his choice. If he chooses not to take advantage of it, then that's his problem (and a very easy problem to avoid).
Err...really? It is the MR's choice if a ninja scans him down while he's clearing the first 'room' and is ready and waiting when he moves to the second? In what universe? I want to know, because it would settle all the issues in this thread if it were really so.

Originally by: Tippia
Quote:
'Complete control' is often 'try and pop them before they get close', so it is often well beyond tractor range.
His choice, his problem, very easy to avoid.
So, now MR's should stop using long-range weapons and stop using range as a defense because you don't want to admit that PROPER PvE tactics put the MR at a disadvantage versus ninja salvagers.

See what I did there?

I also noticed that you didn't answer my charge that MR's would be stupid to just open fire on ninjas that loot and thus become flagged. Did you get the point, or just run out of straw-man space?

N00byn00blar
Posted - 2009.11.03 22:35:00 - [327]
 

This debate is all academic imho. For example, a system I just passed though (a mission running system):

Quote:
Yorlock > /emote wanted more smack, is left confused as to whether you Concorded yourslef, got can flipped, or ganked... more tears and details please


It's not about resources, or loot, or making money for the ninja, it's about being an ass to others. That's all.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.11.03 22:42:00 - [328]
 

Originally by: Annaphera
What exactly is "proper" for level 4's?
A battlecruiser is a good start.
Quote:
I do have a way to "win the competition for resources", one that you dismissed arrogantly a post or so ago - an alt in a salvage fitted ship.
I dismissed it as a requirement to have a fair chance. It's completely unnecessary for that.
Quote:
Err...really? It is the MR's choice if a ninja scans him down while he's clearing the first 'room' and is ready and waiting when he moves to the second?
Unless the ninja has brought his own weapons and tank to take on that second room, yes, and if he has, then the whole excuse of "I shot it, I should get everything without effort" argument becomes even more invalid than it already is.
Quote:
So, now MR's should stop using long-range weapons and stop using range as a defense because you don't want to admit that PROPER PvE tactics put the MR at a disadvantage versus ninja salvagers.

See what I did there?
Yes: you missed the point. The point was that the MR has a choice in how he wants to approach the business of running missions. Completely unsurprisingly, not all setups will be optimal for all situations. Want to be sure of winning the salvage race? Then you'll likely have to make sacrifices elsewhere since you're trying to do two things at once with the same ship.
Quote:
I also noticed that you didn't answer my charge that MR's would be stupid to just open fire on ninjas that loot and thus become flagged.
Oh, was that addressed at me? I didn't answer it because it had nothing to do with anything I've said. I tend to ignore strawmen arguments.

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2009.11.03 22:46:00 - [329]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: goodby4u
When was the last time a ninja got ninja'd? They do not face the same risks the mission runner does....
They face the exact same risk: that someone else (eg. the MR) beats them to the wreck.
Quote:
And there is risk of losing one's ship in a mission
…which has nothing to do with the risk of collecting salvage.
Quote:
So if someone swoops down to my wreck, salvages it, I can shoot them without being concorded? If not then I cannot.
No, but if someone steals your salvage, you can.
Quote:
No good reason? There are a number of reasons I have already stated.
No. Those are just your misunderstandings about how things should work — not a reason to change how they work. You need to provide a reason why missions need to be buffed. You need to provide a reason why MRs are incapable of using they many means at their disposal to win the competition over salvage. You need to explain why competing over salvage is a bad thing. You need to explain why ninjas aren't entitled to what they've worked for (worked harder, I might once again add, than the MR).

MR cannot beat them to a wreck when he is possibly running multiple rooms/currently fighting something etc... They definately do not have this risk.

No but this is the risk MRs take to make their money and create those wrecks to salvage from, the ninjas don't suffer from this same risk.

When they salvage my wreck they are stealing what the wreck is made up of, ie proportional to one of the following.

Swiping a can from somebody.

Using a turret on said can.... If I remember correctly one cannot tractor beam another's wreck yes? So why should salvagers be different?

1)Mission runners won't be buffed, you would be able to steal the wreck all the same, you will simply need to protect yourself in the process.

2)If you have two people racing on a track and one is getting beaten to a pulp in the process while the other is simply running which is better? This is why mission runners are often incapable of fighting for the salvage.

3)It isn't, however I like to compete with my lasers rather then my speed. Twisted Evil

4)Scanning is damn easy now, I have several people in my corp that learned how to scan within the first couple of days they started, however learning how to properly run lvl 4s takes much longer.

Harrpy Helcina
Posted - 2009.11.03 22:48:00 - [330]
 

Edited by: Harrpy Helcina on 03/11/2009 22:48:41
I don't know if this was said before but a counter could be created.

Say, a jammer that fits in a high slot that makes your dead space area harder to find by the ninjas



Pages: first : previous : ... 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 15 ... : last (16)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only