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Fossil Wolf
omen.
Posted - 2009.05.08 15:35:00 - [31]
 

Effective HP Guys


Noodly Appendage
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2009.05.08 15:54:00 - [32]
 

EHP isn't all that. Resists and cap are more important (to aid sent and received rr)


Originally by: Mira O'karr

but consider you are in a gang with a few nyx and aeons (add a command ship even), wouldnt the armor tank make more sense?

it is a serious question. i dont fly MS and am wondering about the synergies.


Add in wyverns. Boom, headshot. Hel needs a shieldtank.

Seragon
Caldari
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2009.05.08 16:35:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Mira O'karr
wow your fit is certainly a ton more expensive and i m not argueing what looks better on paper, it is definately the shield variety.

but consider you are in a gang with a few nyx and aeons (add a command ship even), wouldnt the armor tank make more sense?

it is a serious question. i dont fly MS and am wondering about the synergies.


You are aware that command ships don't just boost armor, right? The shield boosting links work exactly the same as armor. I know more people with vultures than damnations. The majority of carrier pilots in my corp can, and do, use capital remote shield reps, so no worries there. More capitals have bonuses to remote shields than armor (rorqual just to be a ****ant). It may be more expensive, but you can get much higher resists per mod on a shield tank than armor.

And if all else fails... the ship has armor as well which is happy to be repped. It just has an extra thick buffer to get through before that point.

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.05.08 18:12:00 - [34]
 

Things to consider in your fleety Hel setup.

The Archon -> Aeon = Most popular pair of carriers that can armor and cap xfer.

The Thanatos -> Nyx = Very popular pair of carriers that can armor and shield xfer.

The Chimera -> Wyvern = Less popular pair of carriers that can shield and cap xfer.

The Nidhoggur -> Hel = Least popular pair of carriers that can shield and armor xfer and does it better than anyone else.

Don't just consider what the fleet can do for you, also consider what you can do for the fleet.

When it comes time to repair a POS shield, nobody is going to not want a Hel pilot around.

Noodly Appendage
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2009.05.08 18:21:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Anubis Xian
Things to consider in your fleety Hel setup.

The Archon -> Aeon = Most popular pair of carriers that can armor and cap xfer.

The Thanatos -> Nyx = Very popular pair of carriers that can armor and shield xfer.

The Chimera -> Wyvern = Less popular pair of carriers that can shield and cap xfer.

The Nidhoggur -> Hel = Least popular pair of carriers that can shield and armor xfer and does it better than anyone else.

Don't just consider what the fleet can do for you, also consider what you can do for the fleet.

When it comes time to repair a POS shield, nobody is going to not want a Hel pilot around.


While the thanatos and nyx used to bve very popular it says nothing about their effectiveness. The reason for them being so initially has decreased a lot with the advent of the capital blob. Nyx is very pretty though :)

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.05.08 18:27:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Noodly Appendage
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Things to consider in your fleety Hel setup.

The Archon -> Aeon = Most popular pair of carriers that can armor and cap xfer.

The Thanatos -> Nyx = Very popular pair of carriers that can armor and shield xfer.

The Chimera -> Wyvern = Less popular pair of carriers that can shield and cap xfer.

The Nidhoggur -> Hel = Least popular pair of carriers that can shield and armor xfer and does it better than anyone else.

Don't just consider what the fleet can do for you, also consider what you can do for the fleet.

When it comes time to repair a POS shield, nobody is going to not want a Hel pilot around.


While the thanatos and nyx used to bve very popular it says nothing about their effectiveness. The reason for them being so initially has decreased a lot with the advent of the capital blob. Nyx is very pretty though :)


Since most carrier pilots don't have the stones to fight on the same grid as the enemy, yes the Gallente carriers are less popular. But they are nice carriers, and still quite prolific.


Other things to consider are what types of Dreads you are likely to support as a Hel pilot. Revelations are very popular, so are Phoenixes, Naglfars and Moros less so for the kind of fights you will see a Hel in. So dread shield tanks are just about as likely as armor. Another plus for the Minnie Carrier pilot.

Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
Posted - 2009.05.08 19:05:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Anubis Xian
Revelations are very popular, so are Phoenixes, Naglfars and Moros less so


From most killboards (aaa, atlas, goons, bob, tri, pl) I'd order the Moros up there with the Rev in popularity. The gallente caps are very popular.

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.05.08 20:09:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Revelations are very popular, so are Phoenixes, Naglfars and Moros less so


From most killboards (aaa, atlas, goons, bob, tri, pl) I'd order the Moros up there with the Rev in popularity. The gallente caps are very popular.


The Moros isn't generally considered as useful in 'traditional capital combat roles'.

A Hel is not likely to be involved in the Station Dock Games Moros basically.

Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
Posted - 2009.05.08 20:24:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Crackzilla on 08/05/2009 20:25:52
Originally by: Anubis Xian
The Moros isn't generally considered as useful in 'traditional capital combat roles'.



Only one that beats it is the Rev. Otherwise the Moros is superior to the phoenix and nag in many ways.

Top dmg dealer on most killmails is usually a toss up between the many revs and moros in a fleet.

The Moros is usually considered the most flexible dread with the Rev as the best pos/capital killing dread. Phoenix and nag fight are securely back in 3rd/4th place.


Originally by: Anubis Xian

A Hel is not likely to be involved in the Station Dock Games Moros basically.


Moros and Rev are day to day pos and cap killers. So you're right that a Hel is unlikely to share the field.


Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.05.08 20:30:00 - [40]
 

Okay, I suppose that changes things a touch.

Bodo Bass
Minmatar
Templars of Space
Posted - 2009.05.08 22:26:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Eaiaden
Originally by: Bodo Bass
Originally by: Eaiaden
Well for sake of argument, the shield tank EFT posted gives roughly 3.2mill EHP (exact 3.191.744)

You say for "only" 500k less EHP you can make an valid armor tank, lets see it, im wery interrested to see if this is possible to get almost 3mill EHP armor tank on this ship.



Poor soul, i would say. Seems i get as more armour HP on my Hel than the posted shieldtank whilst still being cap stable.




Well prove it, what kinda mods are you using? - the ubberestwftpwngazillionISK mods or?

My whole point of this thread was not that I didnt know how to fit it, but how to keep the price at a reasonable lvl since this is a personal funded ship.

But if you have an awesome armor tank with so few slots, lets see it.


that kinda would ruin the fun wouldn't it

fit what you want. just know that with the isk spending on a 5 mil HP shield tank i can fit 2 armour tank


btw mira, at least you know the game and know how to use eft

Mhorbaine
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2009.05.08 22:51:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Mira O'karr


eft stuffz

thats 3 191 238 EHP

more eft stuffz

3 814 608 EHP

i know nothing about MS though and this might be stupid or prohibitly expensive. certainly doesnt have the same self rep capability as the shield tanker.

el cheapo eft stuffz
3 266 665 EHP, still more ehp than your shield tanker it seems.




not that i'm a numbers ***** or anything...

but if your fitting out a mom esp with armour then slaves = a must and you arent operating in a gang without support/damnation/mindlinks gettin involved...

with the a-type eanm tank = 6,762,588 effective hp (1.03mill raw armour + decent resists)

with the x-type hardener tank (as you only use top end deadspace) = 8,163,542 (overheated hardeners) or 6,502,859 unheated

lets be honest - in a gang thats MUCH more survivable than a uber local shield tank...

p.s. you can triple t2 trimark a hel :D

EFT Warrior
Posted - 2009.05.09 01:56:00 - [43]
 

EHP isn't important compared to resists, who said anything about local tank? Does it suddenly become more important on a mothership? I would take an extra 5% resist over another 1million EHP.

Mhorbaine
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2009.05.09 08:57:00 - [44]
 

with the eanm's ur resists are in high 80%'s bar explosive...

with the hardeners ur talkin nearer the 90%'s - esp on heat/kin ... lowest is em tho which could suck for the revs


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