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Janas VonVarloria
Posted - 2009.05.05 12:58:00 - [31]
 

Harsh! Lol, but I agree. There's much more satisfaction to work for it. I think most true and successful pilots would agree.

ShadowDraqon
The Quantum Company
Independent Faction
Posted - 2009.05.05 12:58:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
The rookie ship really is just a joke

It's supposed to be, cause you're a rookie. It's an encouragement to get better. And to get better, you pick a profession and start training.

And by training, I don't just mean Skill Points, but player skill as well.

The skill system in EVE is not linear. Instead, imagine that I take a bunch of strings, bundle them together and stick lots of smaller strings in between them. Then I toss them off a cliff, into a large river. Now, you're not gonna find those strings again, so forget about them, 'cause they don't matter.

I'm sure a was going somewhere with this, but I've forgotten now.

Point is, a player might have 20 mil SP and you only 500k. You can still kick his a** upside down. It all depends on:

- What you are flying
- What he is flying
- Where you got your skillpoints
- Where he has got his skillpoints
- What each of you know about combat manouvers, engagement tactics, etc.

As said before, specialization, player competence, etc. is the key.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2009.05.05 13:03:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Destructor1792
What you'll find is that you've just denied yourself an intrigal part of the game by doing this.. EXPERIENCE!!

No. You can make the experience with or without it. EVE is then not the first game I have played. I will likely not stay with EVE should these passages of boredom persist. In fact it is the reason why I rather want to throw some money at CCP and to get to the next stage, where I can make more experience and with some other ship or aspect of EVE.

Santiago Fahahrri
Gallente
Galactic Geographic
Posted - 2009.05.05 13:09:00 - [34]
 

Absolutely no.

ShadowDraqon
The Quantum Company
Independent Faction
Posted - 2009.05.05 13:22:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
No. You can make the experience with or without it. EVE is then not the first game I have played. I will likely not stay with EVE should these passages of boredom persist. In fact it is the reason why I rather want to throw some money at CCP and to get to the next stage, where I can make more experience and with some other ship or aspect of EVE.

Scenario 1: You buy a character with 30 million SP, go out and get PWN'd to hell. "wtf?" this is because even if you have the money and the skillpoints, you also need to know how to use them. This is called experience. which leads us to...

Scenario 2: You play the game. At a point when you have reached 10 million SP, you fit a ship, go out and win the same battle we had in scenario 1. "yay!" This is because, having played the game for the time if took you to reach 10 million SP, you gained experience, which meant you knew what to fly, how to fit it, and how to fly it, what to do in this or that situation, and how to win the battle.

... experience: In EVE, it's not measured in numbers, or credit card transactions.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2009.05.05 13:23:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: ShadowDraqon
Point is, a player might have 20 mil SP and you only 500k. You can still kick his a** upside down.

You are exaggerating. I am not.

As I wrote before are you not loosing anything. You can buy yourself some skills, too. Perhaps you already have got all that can be bought, but would this be too painful?

The result of this will be that more players will have better skills right from the start and can give you a better fight, rather than being just pathetic prey. Only those who cannot afford to pay $99 have to wait. Still, it is not such a disadvantage.

Or are you afraid of players, who for a change, might be kicking your butt? If you are as good as you think you are then these players will make for a better prey. And should they kick your butt, well, then you can always tell a carebear about it.

I have spend more money on a new graphics card than is needed to play EVE and I got a game with it, too. I don't really see why I should not throw a little bit more money at CCP and get something nice in return.

Destructor1792
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.05.05 13:33:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: ShadowDraqon
Point is, a player might have 20 mil SP and you only 500k. You can still kick his a** upside down.

You are exaggerating. I am not.



I don't think Shadow is exaggerating at all.. trawl through the multitude of killboards & forum posts to see precisely this thing happening Twisted Evil

But i'll say it once more, NO to being able to purchase ready made trained skillbooks.

You want it all now ? An option is already there for you to throw your real money at to skip through the game quicker.. Use that instead (if you really must).

ShadowDraqon
The Quantum Company
Independent Faction
Posted - 2009.05.05 13:39:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
Or are you afraid of players, who for a change, might be kicking your butt? If you are as good as you think you are then these players will make for a better prey. And should they kick your butt, well, then you can always tell a carebear about it.

I never said i thought i was good.

In fact, My most prominent PvP experience was joining the militia, Going into lowsec, warping to (not sure what it was), getting blown up by a pirate in a taranis, and quitting the militia (2 hours after i joined)

Saying I'm a PvP'er is like talking about how wonderfully secure the economy is these days... Laughing

Mistress Iceka
Caldari
Posted - 2009.05.05 13:39:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Mistress Iceka on 05/05/2009 13:42:20
Edited by: Mistress Iceka on 05/05/2009 13:40:34
Said by Whitehound
"No. You can make the experience with or without it. EVE is then not the first game I have played. I will likely not stay with EVE should these passages of boredom persist."

Eve takes patence,you (3 month old char) dont seem to have it..maybe eve just isnt for you..maybe you would like wow or sro better where ya can spead money and get to the top inless then 3 months..thats NOT eve..dont like it..well ya wont be missed.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2009.05.05 13:57:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Mistress Iceka
Eve takes patence,you (3 month old char) dont seem to have it..maybe eve just isnt for you..maybe you would like wow or sro better where ya can spead money and get to the top inless then 3 months..thats NOT eve..dont like it..well ya wont be missed.

Sure, it does take patience. But what if I could spend the time with something better than practising my patience? That is what you need to think about.

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2009.05.05 14:02:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Valandril on 05/05/2009 14:04:01
Edited by: Valandril on 05/05/2009 14:02:27
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: ShadowDraqon
Point is, a player might have 20 mil SP and you only 500k. You can still kick his a** upside down.

You are exaggerating. I am not.

He is not exaggerating, many times 20mSP chars got theyr ass handed by 1mSP chars. Hell some ppl even frapsed that and put it on movie.
You DON'T have to wait for sp, all you need is balls and pvping you go.

Oh and when you wil be leaving eve, can i have your stuff ?

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2009.05.05 14:11:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Whitehound on 05/05/2009 14:17:06
Originally by: Valandril
He is not exaggerating, many times 20mSP chars got theyr ass handed by 1mSP chars. Hell some ppl even frapsed that and put it on movie.
You DON'T have to wait for sp, all you need is balls and pvping you go.

Sure, and they are called "comedy kill", but that is certainly not the reason why I want to skip all this waiting.

Quote:
Oh and when you wil be leaving eve, can i have your stuff ?

Actually, I have already thought about a good way to get rid of my stuff. I am thinking that I will place a bounty on every possible player and of 1 mil. This way the money gets bound and you have to shot each other to get it. It keeps the fun and the spirit for you alive Twisted Evil I am not saying that I will do this ...

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2009.05.05 14:15:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Valandril
He is not exaggerating, many times 20mSP chars got theyr ass handed by 1mSP chars. Hell some ppl even frapsed that and put it on movie.
You DON'T have to wait for sp, all you need is balls and pvping you go.

Sure, and they are called "comedy kill", but that is certainly not the reason why I want to skip all this waiting.
comedy kill ? So if guy with more sps gets killed by guy with less sp its comedy kill ?
And reason is because you look for instant gratification, in which case mainstreem mmos are that --> way

Traidor Disloyal
Private Nuisance
Segregati0n
Posted - 2009.05.05 14:34:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Traidor Disloyal on 05/05/2009 14:42:16
Originally by: Whitehound
In addition, imagine special offers like:

$99 for a T2 Interceptor, all required skills and a 3-month subscription.

What a great way to start EVE and it would make a nice Christmas present, too.

Again, I am not asking to make all skills purchasable, but only some, to ease the entry into EVE and to have a first good ship.

The rookie ship really is just a joke, and the T1s thereafter or only good for mission running and PvP sparing.

You do realize having the SP for an Interceptor and being able to use the Interceptor are two different things? I wouldn't want to fly with someone in game who bought his skills because there would be a big chance for him to get my ship lost in the process of him learning how to use what he bought for $99. After I find out he bought his skills there would be even a bigger chance of me podding him back to the station a few times till he quit the corporation. And if the person in question made me mad enough I would hunt him down wherever he went in Eve till he quit. But that's just me.

And contrary to popular belief just flying a T2 ship does not make one a PvP God. I know.

In some ways T1 ships are better then T2 ships. They are cheaper to learn on. Most of the cost of a T1 ship can be reimbursed from the Insurance. It isn't even worth insuring T2 ships.

And, by the way, the person who would buy a $99 Interceptor would more then likely loose it within 10 seconds of their first PvP engagement. Because the moron would fly straight at the target he wants to tackle.

Edit:
I swear the "s" looked like an "n" to me.

Thenoran
Caldari
Tranquility Industries
Posted - 2009.05.05 15:01:00 - [45]
 

Skills != Experience

Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
Posted - 2009.05.05 15:09:00 - [46]
 

This is a really really bad proposal.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2009.05.05 15:15:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Valandril
comedy kill ? So if guy with more sps gets killed by guy with less sp its comedy kill ?

Yes, and lolfits.

Quote:
And reason is because you look for instant gratification, in which case mainstreem mmos are that --> way

I do not get a gratification from making a purchase. Women do, maybe.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2009.05.05 15:18:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Traidor Disloyal
You do realize having the SP for an Interceptor and being able to use the Interceptor are two different things?

Sure, and I hope that you do realize that this has got nothing to do with making a few early skills purchasable! Same with having 20m SP and getting popped by a 1m SP char. No one says that this is impossible.

NL Nataku
Manson Family
Corcoran State
Posted - 2009.05.05 15:23:00 - [49]
 

I really could give a rats ass if someonething like this were to be implanted. Because hell the guy could buy **** loads of gtc's and buy a whole new character all together and have more skillpoints then alot of you guys in this topic. Maybe not the experience but that will come over time. So we just spends years of training while he or some other dude who has been playing eve for a week can go out there spend money (****sloads of it though) and get where we are and beyond in a matter of days. And here you people are all complaining how he should train up his skills but its oke to buy a character of someone else... Quite the hypocrites if you ask me.

Greetz Nata

ShadowDraqon
The Quantum Company
Independent Faction
Posted - 2009.05.05 15:24:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
Quote:
And reason is because you look for instant gratification, in which case mainstreem mmos are that --> way

I do not get a gratification from making a purchase. Women do, maybe.

/facepalm
You want to be able to play as well as a player who's been playing for 5 years. You want to, in other words, jump straight into the action. That's instant gratification, to log in and be beating the crap out of someone 2 minutes later. Mainstream MMOs.

EVE is about building up your wealth, experience, reputation, etc, as much as the actual fighting. It's not quickplay deathmatch in spaceships.

Grek Forto
Crosshair Corp
Posted - 2009.05.05 15:24:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
Edited by: Whitehound on 05/05/2009 11:58:58
Originally by: Sir Substance
Edited by: Sir Substance on 05/05/2009 11:55:10

+-------------------+ .:\:\:/:/:.
| PLEASE DO NOT | :.:\:\:/:/:.:
| FEED THE TROLLS | :=.' - - '.=:
| | '=(\ 9 9 /)='
| Thank you, | ( (_) )
| Management | /`-vvv-'\
+-------------------+ / \
| | @@@ / /|,,,,,|\ \
| | @@@ /_// /^\ \\_\
@[email protected]@[email protected] | | |/ WW( ( ) )WW
\||||/ | | \| __\,,\ /,,/__
\||/ | | | jgs (______Y______)
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
> ======================================================================


Major fail. One needs to pull this into an editor to see this piece of ascii art, noob! Laughing

You should have used a proper picture. If only you dared ...


Woot? I can see it perfectly fine!

ShadowDraqon
The Quantum Company
Independent Faction
Posted - 2009.05.05 15:27:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: ShadowDraqon on 05/05/2009 15:27:25
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal
You do realize having the SP for an Interceptor and being able to use the Interceptor are two different things?

Sure, and I hope that you do realize that this has got nothing to do with making a few early skills purchasable! Same with having 20m SP and getting popped by a 1m SP char. No one says that this is impossible.
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: ShadowDraqon
Point is, a player might have 20 mil SP and you only 500k. You can still kick his a** upside down.

You are exaggerating.

You did.

Lear Hepburn
Caldari
Ascendant Strategies Inc.
The Transcendent
Posted - 2009.05.05 15:32:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Lear Hepburn
Ah, the old "can't catch up with the skills" fallacy. ... Skill all you need to a decent level ...

Yeah ... skill all you need, right. I am completely with you.

Sure, eventually I will get there, but in the time I wait for skills to complete do I just login, queue another skill and logout. In the meantime do I spend my money on other games. I would rather like to spend it on EVE.

Well skilling to a decent level to fly a rifter takes about 2 days, so I really don't see what your problem is.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2009.05.05 15:45:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Whitehound on 05/05/2009 15:48:25
Originally by: ShadowDraqon
You want to be able to play as well as a player who's been playing for 5 years. You want to, in other words, jump straight into the action. That's instant gratification, to log in and be beating the crap out of someone 2 minutes later. Mainstream MMOs.

And you believe EVE is better than "mainstream"??

With EVE you get beaten up for at least a half year, should you be stupid enough to go looking for a fight.

And then you end up flipping cans and go gate camping at high-sec gates to get a kill done.

And if you never asked for help while being in low-sec then, please, do this. You will see how players in EVE get their gratification. Twisted Evil

This is not what I want. You only call everything you do not know of a mainstream MMO, and talk of gratification without knowing what it is.

Quote:
It's not quickplay deathmatch in spaceships.

Are you sure? It has been for me!!

I really need to find that one 20m SP player that I can pop. Any idea where I could find one? Is it you?? Where are you right now?? I come and get you! Laughing

Let us get back on topic. It is a good suggestion. You only do not like it because you will already have most skills and believe that you will not be able to profit from it.

Heimdal Galplen
Minmatar
Quality Control.
Posted - 2009.05.05 15:47:00 - [55]
 

Successful troll is successful

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2009.05.05 15:56:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Whitehound on 05/05/2009 16:16:50
@Heimdahl: you are terribly creepy.

Originally by: Lear Hepburn
Well skilling to a decent level to fly a rifter takes about 2 days, so I really don't see what your problem is.

Spare me the rifter nonsense. I have seen rifter fights and when ever the rifter is being praised it is by someone who uses faction gear on it and overheats it etc.. Nice try Wink

Siindri Vendo
Gallente
Solarflare Heavy Industries
Doctrine.
Posted - 2009.05.05 16:25:00 - [57]
 

dude, the rifter is an awesome ship, and with the new player experience how it is these days it is quite easy to get to a skill level where you can kill almost any cruiser sized ship with it if you pilot it properly(obviously, if theyre setup specifically to counter you, or you dont actually have the ability to fly it properly then you will fail horribly.) even back when it took a couple of months to even get a million sp, you could still be extremlet useful within a couple of days of creating you character, and while you;re flying around in these cheap ships you get the skills necessary to fly the more expensive ones. Just because you have more money than patience and think you are too ub3r 1337 to go through the training process to know how to properly fly ships doesnt mean that it's a good idea.

TL;DR Go buy ETC's and buy a character then come back when you lose the t3 ship you bought with rl$ to a couple of t1 ships and tell us that time isnt important.

ShadowDraqon
The Quantum Company
Independent Faction
Posted - 2009.05.05 16:31:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: ShadowDraqon on 05/05/2009 16:33:16
Originally by: Whitehound
And you believe EVE is better than "mainstream"??
Yes, I do.

Originally by: Whitehound
With EVE you get beaten up for at least a half year, should you be stupid enough to go looking for a fight.
Fight with friends, try militia (while ignoring my experience of it), or don't go looking for a fight you can't win.

Originally by: Whitehound
And then you end up flipping cans and go gate camping at high-sec gates to get a kill done.
My sole goal in life is NOT making other ppl miserable.

Originally by: Whitehound
And if you never asked for help while being in low-sec then, please, do this. You will see how players in EVE get their gratification. Twisted Evil
Dude, I don't go to low-sec, I guess i'm what you'd call a "care-bear". That doesn't mean, though, that I don't know anything about PvP, even if I blatantly suck at it.
And that's not "instant gratification", that's "wait for 3 hours watching local and then get gratification".

Originally by: Whitehound
This is not what I want. You only call everything you do not know of a mainstream MMO, and talk of gratification without knowing what it is.

Rolling Eyes But you seem like you just want Unreal Tournament in giant spaceships.

Originally by: Whitehound
Quote:
It's not quickplay deathmatch in spaceships.

Are you sure? It has been for me!!

Eh, wat?

Originally by: Whitehound
It is a good suggestion. You only do not like it because you will already have most skills and believe that you will not be able to profit from it.
Laughing Dude, I suck, my character is only a year old, I have only 15 mil SP and my wallet has never topped 400 million ISK.

On topic? CCP isn't gonna start selling skills, because EVE is based on working your way up, etc, etc. CCP isn't a soulless moneymaking machine, this would be a step towards that.

[/pointlessly rant back at troll]

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2009.05.05 16:45:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: ShadowDraqon
Eh, wat?

That was a bit of sarcasm, followed by some trolling. Razz Sorry.

Originally by: Whitehound
On topic? CCP isn't gonna start selling skills, because EVE is based on working your way up, etc, etc. CCP isn't a soulless moneymaking machine, this would be a step towards that.

You do not know what CCP is going to do. They are trying to get new people into the game, or else they would not have the trial and buddy program. And of course it is for the purpose of making money.

If you really want to counter my suggestion then give me some good reasons why a high-skilled player would leave EVE and because of the introduction of purchasable skills. This is what I would like to know about.

Lear Hepburn
Caldari
Ascendant Strategies Inc.
The Transcendent
Posted - 2009.05.05 16:46:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
Edited by: Whitehound on 05/05/2009 16:16:50
@Heimdahl: you are terribly creepy.

Originally by: Lear Hepburn
Well skilling to a decent level to fly a rifter takes about 2 days, so I really don't see what your problem is.

Spare me the rifter nonsense. I have seen rifter fights and when ever the rifter is being praised it is by someone who uses faction gear on it and overheats it etc.. Nice try Wink

You may have seen one but have you ever tried one, or even bothered to learn how to use a rifter properly? Anyone using faction fit has more money than sense IMO. Rather like you seem to have Wink

While I am far from a PvP guru and have been at the wrong end of the many a killmail I am learning all the time, and enjoying doing so. I will, before too long, be able to get on the right side of those mails and I will have earned it through trial by fire. What you seem to want is trial by credit card, and while you may have millions of pounds to throw around at computer games the vast majority of people don't. Eve is not a playgound for the rich, it's a playground for everyone.

As an aside, I can't think of a single successful MMO where you can legitimately pay for skill/level increases short of buying a character (if even that is legit), so what makes you think it's a good idea when all those MMO devs don't?


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