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ArcDragon
Caldari
Ghost Data
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
Posted - 2009.06.08 18:47:00 - [121]
 

Edited by: ArcDragon on 08/06/2009 20:54:23
There being WH entrances like that would certainly be something CCP would add in. You still have to find the right system and you still have to scan it down so them having such a thing would not inbalance the game at all.

Added 1500 C50 to sizeable, TYVM.

As for the difficulty of a site being related to the class of WH I have conflicting reports (confilting things about EVE, NO WAY). I am unable to resolve this, but what I need to resolve it is more people that have seen the difference. Count the ships, not the damage as that is the best objective way to know for sure. THE NAMES MUST BE EXACTLY THE SAME or it does not count. I thank you in advance for the work and time that will be involved.


Dueling Chainsaws
Caldari
The Dominion of Light
Posted - 2009.06.08 20:28:00 - [122]
 

First off, great post only have to things that bug me with it:
1. In the second post "Wormhole Behavior", the information on WH mass stability is fragmented, I would suggest that you move #20 between #12 and #13.
2. Wormhole Thingy is unreliable at the moment, giving incorrect result. I would suggest that you info readers about http://igb.bluesuntrust.com/wormhole.cfm it works decently in the in-game-browser.

-----

ArcDragon
Caldari
Ghost Data
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
Posted - 2009.06.08 20:54:00 - [123]
 

Edited by: ArcDragon on 08/06/2009 20:53:59
Did both, TY Deuling!

Dueling Chainsaws
Caldari
The Dominion of Light
Posted - 2009.06.08 21:46:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: Dueling Chainsaws on 09/06/2009 01:59:38
Edited by: Dueling Chainsaws on 08/06/2009 21:46:13
Originally by: ArcDragon
Edited by: ArcDragon on 08/06/2009 20:50:48
16. Nothing stops you from jumping through a wormhole, not scrams not webs, nothing.


Not entirely true: if concord is chasing you in high-sec, it won't let you jump through a wormhole. Presumably because it would "evade" them.

----

Leagh Listey
Posted - 2009.06.09 03:54:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Menyet Ikeemoo
Originally by: Suicidal Hamster
Originally by: Menyet Ikeemoo
- You can hack/analyze Radar and Mag sites without killing all sleepers.



You left one sleeper from the first spawn, and you start to analyze, is the analyze triggering the next spawn?


No, you can kill most of the first spawn, leave a few, then hack/analyze everything easily, without the second-third spawns.


Not completely true. We did a Mag site not to long ago. Easily tanked the sleepers there. We were set up to hack, not kill. (Low member turn out ugh) Any way, I was able to hack open 4 of the 15 'cans' present. Upon opening that 4th can, we had a respawn. We shot at, nor killed none of the sleepers. The trigger was hacking one of the 'cans'.
[FYI: C5 system. Forgotten Core Information Pen site. No Talocan ship.]

ArcDragon
Caldari
Ghost Data
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
Posted - 2009.06.09 13:06:00 - [126]
 

Added the site and information for the mag sites.

I decided to leave out the the CONCORD point because if CONCORD is after you then you should know you can not evade in anyway. It is a good point to know though.

Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2009.06.09 13:24:00 - [127]
 

I just am a rover going though class 1-2 wormholes as a solo pilot.

But regarding the wormhole effects. I have noticed that sleeper rats dont seam to get the damg bounses I get but they do seam to get the tanking bounses that also means speed tanking so inc speed as well.

ps I also did not read this long post so sorry if some has already pointed this out.

ArcDragon
Caldari
Ghost Data
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
Posted - 2009.06.09 16:17:00 - [128]
 

It is a long post, no worries.

It is still under debate as to which bonuses the sleepers get and which ones they do not. Some we can prove they do not, like shield bonuses (they have none) while others are more subtle. Ultimatley it would take CCP releasing that data to be certain, and I'm certain they never will.

So, we like 90% sure they get SOME bonuses, but who knows?

Ashmira Wintereyes
Caldari
Free Spirits
Posted - 2009.06.10 10:03:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Petyr Baelich
The class of the wormhole does seem to have an effect on the difficulty of the sites contained within it, not just on the probability of certain sites spawning, (core mostly in c4+ etc) which it certainly does, but also the # and type of rats found in each site. We recently ran a perimeter radar site in a c5 which we live in. We've done core sites before and perimeter/frontier sites in lower class wormholes, so we expected the perimeter site to be "easy" and brought a minimal RR fleet of 3 battleships. The spawns were of a quality approaching a core site and our reps were quickly overwhelmed. One battleship was lost and another left with its engines crowned with ignominious flames, (the third was spared completely). This same site in a c2 had only frigates and cruisers with a couple BS in the last spawn. The 2nd wave in the c5 contained 4 BS.

We've also noticed that even minor ladar and grav sites in a c5 will have Battleship and advanced cruiser guards where they only have frigates in a c2-3, (still solo-able by a dual-rep battleship tank).

tldr: A perimeter/frontier in a c5 will be significantly harder than a perimeter/frontier in a c1-3. I surmise that a core in a c1-3 will be easier than one in a c4-6, but have no experience as I have not encountered one in a lower-class wormhole.



As far as my knowledge goes in w-space the difference between classes of the wormhole affects the used abbilities by the spawns as in some degree the type of rats you can encounter.

In a Peremiter radar site for example, in class 1 WH's they never web, in class 2 they occasional web with pauses between the webbing and in class 3 WH's they permaweb and scramble at times... So yeah do not assume an easy ride in a peremiter ambush point in a c4+ as you probably get kicked extremely hard in the nuts ;) as well as people not being prepared solo in a c2 Core site ...

ArcDragon
Caldari
Ghost Data
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
Posted - 2009.06.10 21:29:00 - [130]
 

I'm feeling frisky...let's beat the Missions and Exploration Resources Thread hit count!!!

strike18
Posted - 2009.06.11 02:43:00 - [131]
 

i need more info hwo ti use carrier in wh in this case chimera
how i fit it to help pep and do i need triage to tank sleeper bs? etc. do we need at least 3 carrier to spider tank?

ArcDragon
Caldari
Ghost Data
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
Posted - 2009.06.11 16:05:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: ArcDragon on 11/06/2009 18:15:27
Edited by: ArcDragon on 11/06/2009 18:12:44
Well strike18, I can tell you some things, but not all that you ask. First would be no, you do not need triage mode, but it would be nice if you have it.

Second, if you bring in 3 carriers to spider tank with you will have 6+6+6 Sleeper battleships spawn. That is enough to alpha a well tanked player battleship.

Do that, and you will die.

PS: I just added a very extensive guide on carriers to the evelopedia. Look under Carriers and you should find it, if not, try the Carrier Fact Sheet thread in ships and modules.

Ashmira Wintereyes
Caldari
Free Spirits
Posted - 2009.06.12 07:41:00 - [133]
 

Not sure if it's mentioned and didnt had it before patch 1.2.3 but last night i was in a magneto site when suddenly a gang entered the w-space i was in so i jumped to a safespot for a few minutes to check their intentions which was a ladar site.

After a couple of minutes i warped back to the site and it had despawned.

I never had a radar nor magnetosite despawn in w-space before all the items where analyzed/hacked and many even remained for long times after all had been looted as there where still rats around.

did they adjust the magneto/radar properties so they are the same now as in normal space and have it despawn when touched and clear of players for more then a minute ?

ArcDragon
Caldari
Ghost Data
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
Posted - 2009.06.12 13:33:00 - [134]
 

It would appear they have done exactly that. As far as I'm concerned that one minute despawn is a point of pain in the you know what.

Your not the first to loose a mag site like that, and until they change that variable, you wont be the last either.

Sorry mate.

PS: There is a long thread on it somewhere, I can't remember where though.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2009.06.12 16:39:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: ArcDragon
It is a long post, no worries.

It is still under debate as to which bonuses the sleepers get and which ones they do not. Some we can prove they do not, like shield bonuses (they have none) while others are more subtle. Ultimatley it would take CCP releasing that data to be certain, and I'm certain they never will.

So, we like 90% sure they get SOME bonuses, but who knows?



I sure hope they get bonuses. Because if those sleepers at the ambush point were able to one-shot my Rifter (with AB and inertial) from 80KM out WITHOUT bonuses then that is cause for concern.

ArcDragon
Caldari
Ghost Data
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
Posted - 2009.06.12 19:27:00 - [136]
 

Added some additional sleeper data.

Petyr Baelich
Valar Morghulis.
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2009.06.12 19:49:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
I sure hope they get bonuses. Because if those sleepers at the ambush point were able to one-shot my Rifter (with AB and inertial) from 80KM out WITHOUT bonuses then that is cause for concern.

What's a cause for concern is that you're using a frigate against NPCs that can 3-volley poorly tanked battleships and that you're trying to speed tank at sniper ranges.

Steel Dragon
Caldari
Skyforger
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2009.06.12 20:16:00 - [138]
 

Quote:
What's a cause for concern is that you're using a frigate against NPCs that can 3-volley poorly tanked battleships and that you're trying to speed tank at sniper ranges.

^THIS^

ArcDragon
Caldari
Ghost Data
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
Posted - 2009.06.15 18:32:00 - [139]
 

We encountered one HELL of a mag site last night. It had 15 cans with 4 sleeper BS as the initial spawn. Longer story short, my carrier is into hull and I am glad I trained thermodynamics.

I don't know why this site was harder than the last 3 we did, but it certainly must be one of the tougher ones, I think it was a forgotton core something or other.

HOLY cow that was heart pounding!

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2009.06.15 19:38:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Petyr Baelich
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
I sure hope they get bonuses. Because if those sleepers at the ambush point were able to one-shot my Rifter (with AB and inertial) from 80KM out WITHOUT bonuses then that is cause for concern.

What's a cause for concern is that you're using a frigate against NPCs that can 3-volley poorly tanked battleships and that you're trying to speed tank at sniper ranges.




Tank shmank! I was trying to run away! This is why there is no more "oh I'll just have a look and then warp out". There was NO TIME to align a Rifter with intertial
If I wanted to plumb the depths of stupidity, I would go to Rancer in a Velator and try to ransom a flashy BS. YARRRR!! I would expect the same results.

LLIAXTEP Jr
Posted - 2009.06.16 06:57:00 - [141]
 

what type sensors at slipers BS? and what force?

Ashmira Wintereyes
Caldari
Free Spirits
Posted - 2009.06.16 11:41:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: ArcDragon
We encountered one HELL of a mag site last night. It had 15 cans with 4 sleeper BS as the initial spawn. Longer story short, my carrier is into hull and I am glad I trained thermodynamics.

I don't know why this site was harder than the last 3 we did, but it certainly must be one of the tougher ones, I think it was a forgotton core something or other.

HOLY cow that was heart pounding!


Wouldnt the carrier spawn another 6 additional BS's like the general concencus is on sleeper sites & carriers ?

Petyr Baelich
Valar Morghulis.
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2009.06.16 11:55:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Ashmira Wintereyes
Wouldnt the carrier spawn another 6 additional BS's like the general concencus is on sleeper sites & carriers ?

Of course, that's why you bring one.

Petyr Baelich
Valar Morghulis.
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2009.06.16 11:58:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: LLIAXTEP Jr
what type sensors at slipers BS? and what force?

All types, and from our experience sleeper battleships have a sensor strength around 24.

Ashmira Wintereyes
Caldari
Free Spirits
Posted - 2009.06.16 12:07:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Petyr Baelich
Originally by: Ashmira Wintereyes
Wouldnt the carrier spawn another 6 additional BS's like the general concencus is on sleeper sites & carriers ?

Of course, that's why you bring one.



If you would go for the salvage/loot of the BS's yes, but going for the core magneto site, you should stick for a small gang, gaining balance without triggering the next spawn and loot them 15 cans making you loads of isk instead of risking it with bringing a carrier? Im sure the Core site he talked about is one i have encountered, and will yield a good number of intact structures...

ArcDragon
Caldari
Ghost Data
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
Posted - 2009.06.16 13:32:00 - [146]
 

Our numbers are not sufficient to handle that spawn without a capital ship. I'd love to not spawn those MONSTER battleships but that's the way it is for now.

We got into trouble because opening a can caused a rather large spawn, 6 BS, 5 crusiers and 5 frigates. It was larger than the initial spawn!

We broke even with the loot we did manage to get out. The salavage from the 6+ is worth around 50-100M.

Petyr Baelich
Valar Morghulis.
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2009.06.16 14:08:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Ashmira Wintereyes
If you would go for the salvage/loot of the BS's yes, but going for the core magneto site, you should stick for a small gang, gaining balance without triggering the next spawn and loot them 15 cans making you loads of isk instead of risking it with bringing a carrier? Im sure the Core site he talked about is one i have encountered, and will yield a good number of intact structures...

Using a carrier lets you run with a smaller, more DPS-focused gang than without it. Since the # of sites in a system is limited, we want to generate maximum income from each site, that means using capitals to create additional spawns. If the carrier is causing more risk, then you're using it wrong.

If you're looting the cans only and not killing the rats, you're under utilizing the sites. It's not like there are lots and lots of magneto sites in every system. The most I've seen was 5; that's one evening's work. On average we spend about 2 weeks draining a c5 dry of all sigs and anomalies, and then move on.

battlebot1077
Off-Axis Response
Rebel Alliance of New Eden
Posted - 2009.06.16 14:10:00 - [148]
 

We ran a unsecured Core radar site last night in a c6. Initial spawn had various frigates and 9 battleships (1 guardian, 3 sentinels, 3 wardens, 2 keepers). A small gang of 6-7 remote repping and sniping battleships (recommend geddons and apocs) seems maintaining 200-250km from the sleepers seems to work. Keeps you out of their torp/cruise missle range but you can still hit em. forget taking them on close range, theres too much DPS for one ship

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2009.06.16 15:15:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: battlebot1077
We ran a unsecured Core radar site last night in a c6. Initial spawn had various frigates and 9 battleships (1 guardian, 3 sentinels, 3 wardens, 2 keepers). A small gang of 6-7 remote repping and sniping battleships (recommend geddons and apocs) seems maintaining 200-250km from the sleepers seems to work. Keeps you out of their torp/cruise missle range but you can still hit em. forget taking them on close range, theres too much DPS for one ship



So we can presume that most Gallente ships are worthless in a C6. Wink

battlebot1077
Off-Axis Response
Rebel Alliance of New Eden
Posted - 2009.06.16 15:46:00 - [150]
 

a thron with t2 guns and ammo can hit 200km, so theyre not entirely useless


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