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ArcDragon
Caldari
Ghost Data
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
Posted - 2009.05.06 12:23:00 - [61]
 

ty Rubico, added it in, I regularly have wh M267 in my class 5 and did the same thing and got the same percentage (well, very close anyways).

FRAPS: My class 5 behaves the same way as yours, I have a M267 wormhole that always leads into a class 3 or 2 wormhole. Others that are NOT the M267 wormhole open up into highsec(VERY RARELY), lowsec(1 or 2 times a week) and nullsec(almost every day).

And I have noticed my Wspace has bottomed out. From other mates living in a Wspace it really does seem that inhabiting it (POS or not) changes the spawn rates. This may not be true as some Wspaces are so rarely entered they might be "building up" spawn sites over a long period of time. So, if that is true, then the spawn rate is very low and steady, but players tend to work the sites faster than they respawn. I am very concerned about this and I wonder why I only have 2 sites in my class 5 Wspace when some Wspaces have 39!!

CLARIFICATION ON SHIPS JUMPING THROUGH WORMHOLES: Lots of debate, here is how it works. Only the Class 1 wormhole cares about what CLASS of ship it is, ie Battleship or frigate. Class 1 wormholes have a SHIP restriction of Battlecruiser size or less. No Marauder or Battleship can even attempt to jump though. Think of it as the same restriction as level 2 mission gates.

All wormholes have two mass attributes, the first is the maximum mass of a jumping ship that is allowed through. Most class 2 and 3 wormholes only allow up to 300M kg of ship through at one time. Battleships are around 100M kg. The second attribute is the one that means the TOTAL AMOUNT of mass allowed to pass through the wormhole and it is cumulative. 5 Battleships at 100M kg each counts as 500M kg against the maximum allowable mass.

When you start to eat up the max allowable mass the wormhole will physically SHRINK when it hits the 45% and the 5% of maximum allowable mass amounts (whatever that is). So, if it allows a total of 100M kg of ships to pass through then at 450,000kg it will shrink and say "has had its stability reduced, not critical yet", when it hits 50,000kg it will say its "on the verge of collapse". If you know what you are doing and can get a wormhole down to say 1kg of allowable mass left then you can STILL JUMP a Battleship through it. It will be GONE when it is on the other side, but you can still jump a ship larger than that 1kg of mass.

Hope that clears it up.


Marcus Ziz
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.05.06 14:55:00 - [62]
 

Regarding the salvaging: It IS possible to salvage large advanced wrecks without having Salvaging V. I have Salvaging IV, and some "Salvage Tackle I" Rigs. With those, it is not only possible, but even pretty fast (usually get loot on the second to third cycle) to salvage the Sleeper BS wrecks.

My guess is that it would even be possible to salvage the BS with a lower skill level and those rigs, since the skill (as I read it) gives 5%, while the rigs each give 10% access difficulty bonus. But it is highly likely that I'm mistaken in this, since that would mean that since Salvaging V gives 25%, and the three rigs together give 30% bonus, it would be possible to salvage the wrecks with skill level I and three rigs...

Back to facts:
The W-systems DO "bottom out". My corp and me have lived in a class 5 for three weeks or more now (with a POS), and the amount of signatures has steadily dropped, down to only one(!) the last two days, which is the WH somewhere else. What I find interesting is that we didn't even clear out every site, so IMHO it's not a case of us being faster than the respawn, but the rate of spawns dropping. Right now we've taken to "raiding" the adjacent W-systems to earn our money.

Also, we only ever get a H296 as our mandatory WH ("static" as it's been called before), leading to other class 5 W-systems. Sometimes we get an additional WH leading to a class 4 or 3 (that'd be the mentioned "random" WHs as far as I can tell), and the only time we ever have a direct connection to K-space is when somebody else probes out and enters a WH from K-space to us, resulting in a K162 WH on our end. When this happens, it is usually a connection to nullsec.
Finding a connection to K-space usually means going through one or two adjacent W-systems, if any connection can be found at all.

ArcDragon
Caldari
Ghost Data
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
Posted - 2009.05.06 20:36:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: ArcDragon on 06/05/2009 20:39:26
TY Marcus for the salvage rigs information, that's really good do know!

Added the most disappointing #40.

Terrus Valkin
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.05.06 23:20:00 - [64]
 

A fair portion of this info is either wrong or unclear... I'm too lazy to correct things... >.>

Celia Therone
Posted - 2009.05.07 01:24:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: ArcDragon

LADAR SITES:

1) Order from worst to best for Ladar sites: Token, Minor, Ordinary, Sizeable, Vast and then Instrumental.

Types of gas and quantities in a CLASS 5 Wspace:
Token has 3000 C60 and 1500 C70
Minor has 3000 C70 and 1500 C72
Ordinary has 3000 C72 and 1500 C84
Sizeable has 3000 C84 and ?1000? C50
Vast has 1000 C28 and 5000 C32
Vital has 500 C320 and 6000 C540
Instrumental has 500 C540 and 6000 C320

6) Upon initial arrival there will not be NPCs, they take a little while to spawn in.



There is a 'Barren' type of gas cloud:
Barren Perimeter Reserve
Harvestable Cloud (C-50)
Harvestable Cloud (C-60)

Also a 'Bountiful' type:
Bountiful Frontier Reserve
Harvestable Gas Cloud (Fullerite-C28)
Harvestable Gas Cloud (Fullerite-C32)

Quibble with 6 as the sites that have NPC towers will have them spawned on initial warp in.

Originally by: ArcDragon

MAGNETIC SITES:
3) A Class 5 Wspace that I tried had 9 cans.



Forgotten Perimeter Coronation Platform (3 cans)
Forgotten Perimeter Habitation Coils (5 cans)
Forgotten Perimeter Power Array (4 cans, 1 frigate)

Forgotten Frontier Quarantine Outpost (7 cans, remote repair, webify, can drop some malfunctioning rather than just wrecked sections)

The frigate appearance is somewhat random. I believe that I've only ever got relics from the cans.

Originally by: ArcDragon

RADAR SITES:


Actually I've found more of these than I have magnetometric.

Unsecured Perimeter Amplifer (4 cans, occasional frigate)
Unsecured Perimeter Comms Relay (8 cans, occasional frigate)
Unsecured Perimeter Information Center (3 cans)
Unsecured Perimeter Transponder Farm (? cans)

Unsecured Frontier Database (9 cans, 1 cruiser)
Unsecured Frontier Enclave Relay (15 cans)
Unsecured Frontier Receiver (7 cans)

On a small sample size it looks like:
Perimeter cans contain 0-3 items:
1-10 Datacore
1-4 racial Hybrid Tech Decryptor
1-2 RAM Hybrid Technology

Frontier cans contain 0-3 items:
1-9 Datacore (I assume 10 is possible)1-4 racial Hybrid
1-3 RAM Hybrid

Originally by: ArcDragon

GRAVIMETRIC SITES:

1) Gravimetric sites seem to be the most common exporation site spawn.

2) Gravimetric sites worst to best Common, Average, Unexceptional and then Rarified.

3) All ore types can be in a Gravimetric site. What you find depends on what class of Wspace you are in.


Grav sites were consolidated with the patch so there are a lot fewer of them, and their contents were increased markedly. I believe the ores found depend on the site type, not the class of WSpace.

There are also:
Infrequent Core Deposit
Isolated Core Deposit
Ordinary Perimeter Deposit
Uncommon Core Deposit
Unusual Core Deposit

If you care I can give you some ballpark ore figures for a couple of the site types, but that's a fairly substantial amount of text and I'm not sure it's worth much.

Zelphinine
Posted - 2009.05.07 05:24:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Zelphinine on 07/05/2009 05:37:20
Dunno if this has been covered, but with regards to salvaging, the battleship spawns a friend and I encountered at a 'Solar Cell' site in a level 3 wormhole could not be salvaged with Salvage III.

And here I thought that you only needed IV for level 4+ Sad

Has anyone tried to get a handle on how many HPs sleepers have?

Edit: And what sort of ECM works on them? Is multispec the best choice?

ArcDragon
Caldari
Ghost Data
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
Posted - 2009.05.07 08:54:00 - [67]
 

Special thanks to Ashley Kovacs for popping into my wspace and having a nice chat about all his corp knows about wormholes.

I'll be adding more information after I get some sleep.

Qui Shon
Posted - 2009.05.07 09:58:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Terrus Valkin
A fair portion of this info is either wrong or unclear... I'm too lazy to correct things... >.>


Rolling Eyes

Ashley Kovacs
Posted - 2009.05.07 10:57:00 - [69]
 

A couple of the topics covered:

Wormholes nearing the end of their lifespan timewise jiggle around faster and look more 'excited'.

I am reasonably certain that sleepers get all applicable bonuses provided by the system. This means that they will go faster, rep each other more vigorously, have better armor resists... all sorts of bad things. With the exception of pulsar (for shield-tanking groups), system effects are rarely helpful, especially at class 5 or 6 levels.

Magnetometric and radar sites, as well as anomalies, all seem to have four waves. The trigger for the next wave is usually the last of a type of frigate or cruiser. Be careful you don't kill it early.

K162 wormholes are the backside of a wormhole that has already been traversed. That is, it will not appear in the destination until the link has been 'punched' through by the original finder traversing through a spawned wormhole (any wormhole that is not K162). Thus, if you find a K162, someone has been in the system.

Qui Shon
Posted - 2009.05.07 12:29:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Qui Shon on 07/05/2009 12:30:51


4) Magnetic and Radar sites are more rare than Ladar. Gravimetric sites breed like horny bunnies in the spring time.

This is changed, now ladars are by far the most common.


9) All classes of Wspaces can open up to any class of Wspace, null sec, low sec or high sec directly.

10) Wspaces can be buried (confirmed) up to 3 Wspaces deep.


These seem rather the opposite? Perhaps rewrite them to make a difference between inbound and outbound wh's. (Like what the above poster is talking about in his final paragraph.


14) Wormholes last for 16, 24, 36 or 48 hours.

Which WH's last 48h? Not refuting it, just never come accross one myself.


21) Class 1 and 2 are soloable. Class 3 is maybe soloable. Class 4, 5 and 6 can be solo'd only if you use a Capital Ship (Carrier) but be prepared to sweat bullets as a class 5 can crack a carrier and eat drones severely. It was a draw when I tried it.

Should read Class 1 and 2 encounters probably. And it's not a hard, absolute limit, but I'm sure people will understand that.

Turiel Demon
Minmatar
Celtic industries
Posted - 2009.05.07 17:08:00 - [71]
 

"17) The largest "to high sec" wormhole allows a ship of 300,000,000 kg mass to fit through."

This is wrong, there are a number of WH (A641, D792) which lead to highsec with 1,000,000,000 kg limit. This is however irrelevant, as there are no ships larger than 300M kg (orca = 250M) but smaller than 1B kg (carriers are ~1.1b).


New point: Radar and Magnetometric sites can have an Abandoned Talocan Battleship/Cruiser present (the source of T3 hull BPCs). The same site can spawn with or without the abandoned hull, this includes temporary despawns: they may appear or disappear over DT.
When an abandoned BS is present, the initial spawn defending the site will have one more Advanced level Sleeper BS guarding it. An equivalent extra guardian is likely present for abandoned cruisers.


New point: WH’s have an ‘entrance’ and an ‘exit’ side. The Entrance side is the side of discovery, and has a WH’s actual code. The Exit side always is coded K162.


New point: W-space systems have fixed ‘entrance’ WH’s that always spawn from them. Example: If the C3 wormhole you live in has an M555 wormhole to a C5 system, and that WH collapses, it will get a new M555 as soon as it does, and it will always have an M555 WH, to a new random C5 system each time.

Anthal
The Warp Squad
Deadly Unknown
Posted - 2009.05.07 19:15:00 - [72]
 

There are ships <300m but under 1b, Freighters.

The wormhole designation can and does change. Our old Class 3 used to have D845 most of the time, but also other High-Sec designations, and a few low-sec designations, as well.

Ashley Kovacs
Posted - 2009.05.07 22:55:00 - [73]
 

A small excerpt from a comprehensive manual I am writing:

Quote:
Every unknown system has one wormhole type that is guaranteed to exist in the system at all times. For instance, some Class 3 systems constantly open B449 wormholes, lasting 16 hours (or until collapsed) and leading to high security space.

If this "default wormhole" is closed, another of the same type will immediately spawn elsewhere in the system (probably not to the same destination).

If there is only one Cosmic Signature in an unknown system, or only one spawned wormhole, then it is guaranteed to be this default wormhole.

This does not mean that any spawned wormhole in an unknown system is the default wormhole; there is also a smattering of other types of spawned wormholes that are not guaranteed to respawn, and it may take a few days in the system to determine which type the default wormhole is.




Also: I wish to find out whether system bonuses (particularly shield amount) apply to POS shields. Can anyone help with this?

Cypher Shaman
Posted - 2009.05.08 13:20:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: ArcDragon

21) Class 1 and 2 are soloable. Class 3 is maybe soloable. Class 4, 5 and 6 can be solo'd only if you use a Capital Ship (Carrier) but be prepared to sweat bullets as a class 5 can crack a carrier and eat drones severely. It was a draw when I tried it.


Originally by: ArcDragon
35) The class of the system does NOT affect the difficulty of the sites. It only determines what KINDS of sites are likely to spawn in the system.

'Perimieter' sites are "easy"
'Frontier' sites are "medium"
'Core' are sites are "hard"

Thus a site with the same name will be equally difficult no matter if it is in a class 1 Wspace or class 6 Wspace. The difference is that 'Core' sites seldom appear in the lower classes (allthough they certainly can spawn there as well).


Now, these two statements confuses me a little bit. So.. what does class information mean exacly ? What sites are soloable then ? Any perimeter type sites or any sites in 1-2 class wspace?

Rab See
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.05.08 14:58:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: ArcDragon

3) A Class 5 Wspace that I tried had 9 cans.



We puzzled and gave up on this nasty class 5 WH mag site. 15 cans ... slurp.

On 1st attempt to open can ...

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Qui Shon
Posted - 2009.05.08 16:05:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: ArcDragon

40) Weather intended or not, Wspaces apparently DO bottom out when you take up residence within them. Three confirmed cases, all of them had POSs. The Wspaces eventually dwindled to one static wormhole and one exploration spawn. Sites DESPAWN as usual, but simply to not RESPAWN at the "normal" rate.



Why would this have anything to do with the POS's themselves? Is there any real indication of that?

It seems much more likely to me that inhabited systems simply have their sites cleaned out, and they respawn elsewhere in the constellation of w-spaces.

Of course it's possible that there is a function to respawns so that "system quality" is degraded over time in regards to respawns. Once you've emptied the C320 and Arkanor, you'll get C72 and Plag instead. You empty those, you get nothing for a while. Maybe just spawning the site by initiating warp to it is enough to do this.

But it could just be the old familiar k-space complaint of "my area has no exploration content, I've checked xx systems and nothing" mirrored in w-space.... I.e. the old 72h rule working it's magic, leaving heavily used areas without stuff while the 72h timer on that same site is ticking down somwhere else.

zzttzzt
Posted - 2009.05.08 16:34:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: zzttzzt on 08/05/2009 16:36:16
Just to confirm, Class 2/3 "Frontier" and below encounters ie. cosmic anomalies, can be soloed in a well skilled battleship/commandship.

What about Class 3 or Class 2 Ladar, Radar, Magnetometric and Unknown cosmic signatures? Can a well tanked and skilled battleship solo these?


Kaaii
Caldari
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
KAAII-NET
Posted - 2009.05.08 19:12:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Turiel Demon
"17) The largest "to high sec" wormhole allows a ship of 300,000,000 kg mass to fit through."

This is wrong, there are a number of WH (A641, D792) which lead to highsec with 1,000,000,000 kg limit. This is however irrelevant, as there are no ships larger than 300M kg (orca = 250M) but smaller than 1B kg (carriers are ~1.1b).





Freighter.

Expendable Pilot
Posted - 2009.05.08 22:51:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: ArcDragon
Edited by: ArcDragon on 03/05/2009 13:20:44
LADAR SITES:

1) Order from worst to best for Ladar sites: Token, Minor, Ordinary, Sizeable, Vast and then Instrumental.

Types of gas and quantities in a CLASS 5 Wspace:
Token has 3000 C60 and 1500 C70
Minor has 3000 C70 and 1500 C72
Ordinary has 3000 C72 and 1500 C84
Sizeable has 3000 C84 and ?1000? C50
Bountiful has 5000 C28 and 1000 C32
Vast has 1000 C28 and 5000 C32
Vital has 500 C320 and 6000 C540
Instrumental has 500 C540 and 6000 C320


Added the one you were missing.

Soulspatch
Posted - 2009.05.10 23:09:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Soulspatch on 10/05/2009 23:10:33
40) Weather intended or not, Wspaces apparently DO bottom out when you take up residence within them. Three confirmed cases, all of them had POSs. The Wspaces eventually dwindled to one static wormhole and one exploration spawn. Sites DESPAWN as usual, but simply to not RESPAWN at the "normal" rate.

Reply to bug report;

"Hi! I personally would check other w-systems. According to Devs it seems to work like intended. If you still see it as too difficult, please complain in forums. - Regards, BH Lenider"

Seems to be a confirmation from CCP. My corp has taken up residence in an L5 worm hole which now has only 1 worm hole out and nothing else.


Garramon
Gallente
First CityWide Change Bank
Posted - 2009.05.10 23:44:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Soulspatch
Edited by: Soulspatch on 10/05/2009 23:10:33
40) Weather intended or not, Wspaces apparently DO bottom out when you take up residence within them. Three confirmed cases, all of them had POSs. The Wspaces eventually dwindled to one static wormhole and one exploration spawn. Sites DESPAWN as usual, but simply to not RESPAWN at the "normal" rate.

Reply to bug report;

"Hi! I personally would check other w-systems. According to Devs it seems to work like intended. If you still see it as too difficult, please complain in forums. - Regards, BH Lenider"

Seems to be a confirmation from CCP. My corp has taken up residence in an L5 worm hole which now has only 1 worm hole out and nothing else.




This has been explained many many times. There is nothing wrong, and it has absolutely nothing to do with you having a POS in system. The stuff you farmed out simply respawned in a different w-space system, likely one nobody is living in, so it just sits there waiting for someone to find it for days. Its like complexes in k-space.

BloodHarvest
Minmatar
Havoc Violence and Chaos
Posted - 2009.05.11 01:53:00 - [82]
 

Quote:
1) Using Carriers (Dreadnoughts?) WILL spawn 6 additional Battleships if you use them on Magnetic sites. (Confirmed)


Yes, Dreadnoughts also cause a spawn of 6 battleships per Dread.

Quote:
2) Gravimetric sites worst to best Common, Average, Unexceptional and then Rarified.


Common, Ordinary, Average, Unexceptional, Exceptional, and then Rarified.


Just a couple additions. Great thread.

Blood

Keith F
Caldari
United ALT Forces
Posted - 2009.05.11 03:32:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: Keith F on 11/05/2009 03:34:00
2 things
ORCA DO NOT trigger BS spawns.
we hava a POS in a C2 WH and it always respawns a N062 WH AND a E545 with out exception (SO FAR).
but it is getting so that is ALL it respawns.

Polo Marco
Minmatar
Four Winds
We Hate Smurfs
Posted - 2009.05.11 13:20:00 - [84]
 

I have been in a wh POS for nearly 3 weeks.. my site spawn rate has dropped to little or nothing... Nothing any day there is a server startup problem.. one if things are good. I hven't seen a mag or ladar site in nearly 2 weeks. Wassup CCP? You don't want us seriously going after yer new t3 stuff?

POLO

Rab See
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.05.11 14:14:00 - [85]
 

Another note.

A Class 2 WH that let me in with Rapier and colleague with Myrm, wouldn't let him out due to size restriction of WH.

Offlining his 1600mm plate let him jump through fine.

Some Advisor
Posted - 2009.05.11 14:15:00 - [86]
 

iam now about close to 1 month (or even longer? time flies so fast, and i finished so many skills that i started earlier) and there is spawn.. sure not the 10 sites per day, but it keeps us busy..
and the neighboring one is also funny to have fun with.
no stuff? oh well we just bubble and hunt the other types of stuff there then :P

Polo Marco
Minmatar
Four Winds
We Hate Smurfs
Posted - 2009.05.11 17:38:00 - [87]
 

Well speak of the devil and up he jumps .. or maybe someone at ccp is listening... At 17:10 a routine scan turned up a small sig. I was lookin for a higher lvl wh (and scanning for ships;) ) but its a RADAR site, and on a non-shutdown spawn no less. Praaise be to manna from the sky. BTW I was in here 2 or 3 days befoe the patch and there was not only plenty of sigs.. but they changed more rapidly... I'm wondering if the update had anything to do with this. Anyone wise on this point?

POLO

minestar
Posted - 2009.05.11 21:39:00 - [88]
 

Not sure if its been mentioned here, but had a curious thing the other night,
where I probed down a wormhole in high sec, only to find that it went straight
into a low sec area!!
There was no sleeper space at all! Is this a common occurance??

Lone Gunman
Forhotea Corporation
Posted - 2009.05.12 06:16:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: minestar
Not sure if its been mentioned here, but had a curious thing the other night,
where I probed down a wormhole in high sec, only to find that it went straight
into a low sec area!!
There was no sleeper space at all! Is this a common occurance??


Yes.

Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.05.12 10:08:00 - [90]
 

nice work.

ill check this more carefully, later.

see space wanderer's earlier FAQ http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1019679

also see my site http://n-sol.blogspot.com/

ps. i also found a class 5 in 0.8 recently. this may have been on the test server. i don't remember which.


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