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Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Kumovi
The G0dfathers
Posted - 2009.06.10 23:02:00 - [181]
 

The only thing my Vengeance assaults is my will to actually fly the ship.

Laminar Septimar
Gallente
Jelly Kings
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2009.06.15 22:34:00 - [182]
 

Thumbs up! Add some Webber Range or even Taget painting Bonus!

Moloch Baal
Amarr
The Village Idiots
Posted - 2009.06.17 13:19:00 - [183]
 


Biytor
Star Frontiers
Talos Coalition
Posted - 2009.06.17 22:36:00 - [184]
 

Edited by: Biytor on 17/06/2009 22:36:00
Going to have to agree with this one.

No point in having a T2 frig when the T1 version is better.

Give the T2's a 4th bonus.

Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.06.18 07:46:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Biytor
Edited by: Biytor on 17/06/2009 22:36:00
Going to have to agree with this one.

No point in having a T2 frig when the T1 version is better.

Give the T2's a 4th bonus.


Hah. Hahah. Wow. If you're AF is losing to T1 frigs, you're doing it wrong. Horribly, horribly wrong.

Lord Cath
Amarr
Gung-Ho
Posted - 2009.06.18 09:38:00 - [186]
 

Originally by: Tortugan
Originally by: Biytor
Edited by: Biytor on 17/06/2009 22:36:00
Going to have to agree with this one.

No point in having a T2 frig when the T1 version is better.

Give the T2's a 4th bonus.


Hah. Hahah. Wow. If you're AF is losing to T1 frigs, you're doing it wrong. Horribly, horribly wrong.


you didnt read any of the posts in this thread now did you

Thutmose I
Posted - 2009.06.19 00:04:00 - [187]
 

i would also like to see some improvements to the AFs especially the Hawk

Xydros
Veto.
Posted - 2009.06.19 00:43:00 - [188]
 

I think that AFs are almost there and while deadly in the hands of a master (as any ship is).

Getting a 4th bonus would help... but I think it should be a role bonus rather than a ship bonus itself.

Trinity Nova
Amarr
Unaccompanied Souls
Posted - 2009.06.19 02:38:00 - [189]
 

+1

What Wang Jing said.


van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2009.06.19 10:43:00 - [190]
 


Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.06.22 07:36:00 - [191]
 

Quote:
you didnt read any of the posts in this thread now did you


In fact, I did. Did you?

Quote:
AFs have very specific roles, as do most T2 ships. Some are better at tanking, others are better at tackling, others are better at putting out solid DPS. I don't think it would be the end of the world if they got a buff, but I really don't think it's necessary.


^ Meaning, hell yes- it's possible to put out more DPS in a Kestrel than a Hawk, but does that mean that make a Kestrel a better ship? Honestly- LTFF (Learn To F***ing Fly) ships before whining for a buff. Yes, AFs are squishy and not easy ships to fly- but they're FRIGATES. The fact that I feel wholly comfortable engaging most T2 cruisers in my AF is a clear sign that if anything, AFs need a nerf- but quite frankly, they're fine where they are now.

AFs take specialization to fly, and practice to fly well. Learn to choose your engagements, and take full advantage of your size and your tank. If you're getting popped too quick, it's because you're allowing yourself to be tracked- medium guns and larger should never hit you if you're orbiting at close range, and small drones can be killed, tanked, or outrun. If your target is tanking you, go after something smaller, and quit whining that your T2 Frigate can't kill a mission fit Battlecruiser.

Honestly- you wonder why Eve has so many balance issues? It's because people like those supporting this thread cba to learn from their mistakes, and be creative- they'd rather just complain and blame CCP.

Assault Frigs are fine. If you can't fly them well, that's your own damn problem.

K1RTH G3RS3N
Haunted House

Posted - 2009.06.23 01:01:00 - [192]
 

indeed

K'aos
Caldari
MegaTraveller

Posted - 2009.06.23 01:02:00 - [193]
 

Would be awesome to see this by the next patch.

Trinity Nova
Amarr
Unaccompanied Souls

Posted - 2009.06.23 03:32:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: Tortugan
Quote:

Honestly- you wonder why Eve has so many balance issues? It's because people like those supporting this thread cba to learn from their mistakes, and be creative- they'd rather just complain and blame CCP.

Assault Frigs are fine. If you can't fly them well, that's your own damn problem.


Get with the program nubbin, you're talking out of your buttocks.


Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.06.23 03:56:00 - [195]
 

Edited by: Tortugan on 23/06/2009 03:56:55
Originally by: Trinity Nova
Quote:

Honestly- you wonder why Eve has so many balance issues? It's because people like those supporting this thread cba to learn from their mistakes, and be creative- they'd rather just complain and blame CCP.

Assault Frigs are fine. If you can't fly them well, that's your own damn problem.


Get with the program nubbin, you're talking out of your buttocks.




I'm happy to listen to you if you give a legitimate reason for your support- but 90% of the supporters in this thread have given no reasonable response to its criticisms.

Moloch Baal
Amarr
The Village Idiots
Posted - 2009.06.23 10:08:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Tortugan
Quote:
you didnt read any of the posts in this thread now did you


In fact, I did. Did you?




NO U !!!11eleven!1!11!!one!111

seriously, if you've read everything then you must at least have read two or three points which made some decent sense. If you're familiar with flying AF's anyway.

Originally by: Tortugan

Honestly- you wonder why Eve has so many balance issues? It's because people like those supporting this thread cba to learn from their mistakes, and be creative- they'd rather just complain and blame CCP.

Assault Frigs are fine. If you can't fly them well, that's your own damn problem.


I point fingers and jump to conclusions, cause I own a few AF's thus it is my right to do so... Im awesome, you guys are stoopid! Noone is blaming anyone, learn to read.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2009.06.23 19:36:00 - [197]
 


Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.06.23 22:05:00 - [198]
 

Originally by: Moloch Baal
Originally by: Tortugan
Quote:
you didnt read any of the posts in this thread now did you


In fact, I did. Did you?




NO U !!!11eleven!1!11!!one!111

seriously, if you've read everything then you must at least have read two or three points which made some decent sense. If you're familiar with flying AF's anyway.

Originally by: Tortugan

Honestly- you wonder why Eve has so many balance issues? It's because people like those supporting this thread cba to learn from their mistakes, and be creative- they'd rather just complain and blame CCP.

Assault Frigs are fine. If you can't fly them well, that's your own damn problem.


I point fingers and jump to conclusions, cause I own a few AF's thus it is my right to do so... Im awesome, you guys are stoopid! Noone is blaming anyone, learn to read.


What arguments have I failed to address?

Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2009.06.24 20:05:00 - [199]
 

From a T2 frigate frequent flyer with a lot of experience and who DOESNT use 3rd party RR, I'm maintaining AF deserve a 4th bonus. ;p

Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.06.24 20:25:00 - [200]
 

Quote:
From a T2 frigate frequent flyer with a lot of experience and who DOESNT use 3rd party RR, I'm maintaining AF deserve a 4th bonus. ;p


Having different views on acceptable PVP tactics somehow makes you more reputable? If you're implying that I only like AFs because they have high resistances, and thus are excellent candidates for remote rep, you're wrong. While it's certainly a plus that 2 large remote reps can hold AFs up against thousands of DPS from battleships, I've only once that I can remember ever been remote-repped in my AF, and it was an oneiros in corp that did it. Coincidentally, had the blaster celestis I was fighting at the time been interested in something other than station games, it wouldn't have been necessary for my ishkur, which was setup at the time for MWD/Rails to tempt him by getting within warp scram, and then blaster range necessitating remote rep.

Aleks- as long as we're being 'professional' let's keep things on topic. Neutral remote repping has absolutely nothing to do with this thread- nor does remote repping in general. I still have yet to hear any counter-points to my previous arguments other than 'OMG NOOB YOU CHEETED AT EVE, CLRLY YOU HAV NO IDEA WAT U R TALKING ABOOT'

Wang Jing
Posted - 2009.06.25 09:48:00 - [201]
 

The problem is firstly that anyone can get kills in any ship if they know how to fit and fly it and understand what engagements it can win. Prometheus Exenthals's Battle Atron vid is a good example of this. Does this mean Atrons are awesome and should cost 20 mil isk each?

In addition, your experience of Assault Frigates is limited to the Ishkur. I've stated many times in this thread that if all AFs were as good as the Ishkur there wouldn't be a problem. If you can't see why its far superior to the others then go back and read the thread, its in there somewhere.

Lord Cath
Amarr
Gung-Ho
Posted - 2009.06.25 10:56:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: Tortugan

I still have yet to hear any counter-points to my previous arguments other than 'OMG NOOB YOU CHEETED AT EVE, CLRLY YOU HAV NO IDEA WAT U R TALKING ABOOT'


unfortunately thats the kind of tone with which you entered the discussion to begin with. You kinda clearly stated that everyone who thinks AF's need their fourth bonus are a bunch of whiners who need to learn to fly AF's. Dont expect people to constructively discuss things if thats how you see it.

BloodSoaked Goddess
Amarr
Ministry of War

Posted - 2009.06.25 12:42:00 - [203]
 

Edited by: BloodSoaked Goddess on 25/06/2009 12:42:23
While promoting for a bit of help for the AF, has anyone out there considered saving the faction frig?

Succubus:really does suck. 65 mil to buy, 200-300 mil to fit (if you want to actually fit it decently and get something out of it) damage of wet rag.

Worm: I think if it was buried even the garbage in the earth would spit it back out. If you can fit it good luck. When you do fit it, again its damage is pathetic for the cost of purchase and fitting it.

Republic fleet firetail: Probably the best of the lot and with the nano nerf its now just a fancy looking medium speed frig, still useful however and easy to fit.


Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
Posted - 2009.06.25 12:48:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: Tortugan
Assault Frigs are fine. If you can't fly them well, that's your own damn problem.

Agreed.

Beovylf
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.06.25 13:46:00 - [205]
 

+1

Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.06.25 19:06:00 - [206]
 

Originally by: Wang Jing
The problem is firstly that anyone can get kills in any ship if they know how to fit and fly it and understand what engagements it can win. Prometheus Exenthals's Battle Atron vid is a good example of this. Does this mean Atrons are awesome and should cost 20 mil isk each?

In addition, your experience of Assault Frigates is limited to the Ishkur. I've stated many times in this thread that if all AFs were as good as the Ishkur there wouldn't be a problem. If you can't see why its far superior to the others then go back and read the thread, its in there somewhere.


The cost of assault frigs is a factor of supply and demand- there's plenty of market for them from people who know how to fly them, and so their price stays on par with other T2 frigs. Yes, my personal experience in AFs is limited to Gallente, as Tortugan is a purely Gallente trained toon (okay, I have Caldari Frigate IV).

Let me ask you this- assuming that both pilots are competent and capable of rigging and T2 fitting their ship, what would the counter to an assault frigate be?

Wang Jing
Posted - 2009.06.25 20:47:00 - [207]
 

Originally by: Tortugan

The cost of assault frigs is a factor of supply and demand- there's plenty of market for them from people who know how to fly them, and so their price stays on par with other T2 frigs. Yes, my personal experience in AFs is limited to Gallente, as Tortugan is a purely Gallente trained toon (okay, I have Caldari Frigate IV).

Let me ask you this- assuming that both pilots are competent and capable of rigging and T2 fitting their ship, what would the counter to an assault frigate be?


Medium or Large neuts. Double webs. ECM Drones. Cruisers that fit frigate sized guns (Vexor, Maller, Thorax sometimes). Ships with plenty of bonused light drones.

They are all deadly to AFs, and an experienced cruiser pilot is unlikely to get in a fight with one without having one (or more Confused) to hand. We are talking about equally skilled pilots here, not ganking a week old player in a failfit Bellicose.

My argument is not that Assault Frigates should dominate T1 cruisers; I believe that it is great that they occupy a niche role in the game and require more delicate use, but it is in the interest of balance that they receive the full 4 bonuses that other T2 combat ships have. This will allow them to be a little better in the roles they fill, but they will still have the same weaknesses and thus require the same thoughtful flying to be sucessful with.

Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.06.25 22:07:00 - [208]
 

Edited by: Tortugan on 25/06/2009 22:11:56
Here's my issue- I've fought a friend in a well-fit harpy in my buffer tanked dominix. I was using a full rack of medium neuts, triple webs, a scram, and hobgoblin IIs. My drone skills are nearly maxed out (interfacing V, combat drone op V, etc) and he ALONE was able to get my 100k EHP dominix into about 65% armor before having to retreat.

I guess I just think they're a bit overpowered :)

Edit: As far as cruisers go, an AF with an afterburner is faster than a MWD cruiser 90% of the time, not to mention most good AF pilots squeeze on a MWD instead. I have absolutely no fear engaging any T1 cruiser- I orbit him at 20km, if he warp disrupts me (hinting that he doesn't have a scram), I pull in to blaster range and mess up his day.

Wang Jing
Posted - 2009.06.25 22:43:00 - [209]
 

Edited by: Wang Jing on 25/06/2009 22:43:17
So he was able to run his guns while being hit with 6 Medium Neuts? Try again.


Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.06.25 23:32:00 - [210]
 

Originally by: Wang Jing
Edited by: Wang Jing on 25/06/2009 22:43:17
So he was able to run his guns while being hit with 6 Medium Neuts? Try again.




Cheap C-Type small nos goes a long way. Overloaded, he was able to run his guns and his shield booster- he would hit them each time his nos came through.


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