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blankseplocked [ISSUE] Give Assault Frigates a 4th Bonus
 
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Wang Jing
Posted - 2009.04.18 23:52:00 - [1]
 

Assault Ships (Assault Frigates) are currently the only T2 ships which do not receive 4 bonuses. It is only fair that this is addressed, and a lot of the ships in this class are in desperate need of another bonus:

Hawk and Vengeance: These need a second damage bonus, as they are currently outdamaged by the kestrel, a T1 frigate, and rockets in general give very poor performance for their fitting requirements. It is increasingly common for the vengeance to be fitted with blasters or lasers as even without bonuses they will outperform rockets. This is surely a sign something needs to be done.

Wolf and Jaguar: Given the concept of minmatar ships as being fast moving, outmanouevering their opponents and dancing around them, the lack of a tracking bonus on these ships is absurd. Given that their T1 counterpart, the infamous Rifter, receives this bonus, it is quite clear that it is necessary for the role they are most often required to perform; engaging the enemy in a tight orbit, using their superior speed to avoid the guns of a larger foe.

The other ships in this class, whilst having no glaring flaws, are still in need of help. For example, it is worrying when Gallente pilots in need of a high dps, take no prisoners blaster using frigate will pick an interceptor, the Taranis, over an assault frigate, the Enyo, everytime. In my view that is indicative of a serious problem with assault frigates, and I believe a 4th bonus will justify the cost of these ships and make them perform the way they should.

Efrim Black
Gallente
Thanatos Industries
Posted - 2009.04.20 20:18:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Wang Jing
Assault Ships (Assault Frigates) are currently the only T2 ships which do not receive 4 bonuses. It is only fair that this is addressed, and a lot of the ships in this class are in desperate need of another bonus:

Hawk and Vengeance: These need a second damage bonus, as they are currently outdamaged by the kestrel, a T1 frigate, and rockets in general give very poor performance for their fitting requirements. It is increasingly common for the vengeance to be fitted with blasters or lasers as even without bonuses they will outperform rockets. This is surely a sign something needs to be done.

Wolf and Jaguar: Given the concept of minmatar ships as being fast moving, outmanouevering their opponents and dancing around them, the lack of a tracking bonus on these ships is absurd. Given that their T1 counterpart, the infamous Rifter, receives this bonus, it is quite clear that it is necessary for the role they are most often required to perform; engaging the enemy in a tight orbit, using their superior speed to avoid the guns of a larger foe.

The other ships in this class, whilst having no glaring flaws, are still in need of help. For example, it is worrying when Gallente pilots in need of a high dps, take no prisoners blaster using frigate will pick an interceptor, the Taranis, over an assault frigate, the Enyo, everytime. In my view that is indicative of a serious problem with assault frigates, and I believe a 4th bonus will justify the cost of these ships and make them perform the way they should.


Not sure how this one escaped the main page. But here is +1 support.

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2009.04.20 20:45:00 - [3]
 

I'm not savvy on Assault Frigs and even I tend to be reluctant to buff ships without a fair bit of research.

But I've seen Efrim rant about the lack of love and popularity with Assault Frigs.

I can dig it.

Lee Dalton
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.04.20 22:08:00 - [4]
 

Supported.

Zolian
Murderous Impulse
Posted - 2009.04.21 01:40:00 - [5]
 


Bunyip
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.04.21 03:33:00 - [6]
 

Agreed. I think this is more for CCP's QA department to work out, but I will bring it to their attention at the next meeting.

Relatyve Mynd
Posted - 2009.04.21 07:03:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Relatyve Mynd on 21/04/2009 07:04:22

Relatyve Mynd
Posted - 2009.04.21 07:04:00 - [8]
 

please fix AF's.

eliminator2
Gallente
Vindicated Blast.

Posted - 2009.04.21 08:50:00 - [9]
 

agreed

they don't live up to their name of "assault" frigates


Wang Jing
Posted - 2009.04.21 11:02:00 - [10]
 

Thanks for the support so far!

With the big balance thread going on, nows the time to get this fixed. There are plenty of people asking for it there, but of course it can always get ignored, or just slip under the radar again, so if you haven't already done so please post in this thread with it as one of your priorities:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1051722

Cheers!

Jin Labarre
Posted - 2009.04.21 14:03:00 - [11]
 

Since I love Assault Ships, I'd love to see them receiving more love. Even if it means encountering even more Russian campers in Assault Ships. Cool

Lord Cath
Amarr
Gung-Ho
Posted - 2009.04.21 15:38:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Lord Cath on 21/04/2009 15:44:50
AF's could use a bit of boost indeed.

What i concider being worth mentioning as well is apart from the missing bonus, there's the retribution with only 1 medium slot, making it a rather limited AF in comparisson to the rest

Wang Jing
Posted - 2009.04.21 16:18:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Lord Cath
Edited by: Lord Cath on 21/04/2009 15:44:50
AF's could use a bit of boost indeed.

What i concider being worth mentioning as well is apart from the missing bonus, there's the retribution with only 1 medium slot, making it a rather limited AF in comparisson to the rest


I very much agree, the Retribution is entirely useless for solo work (unless you want to try honour tackling), and, outside of frigate hull gangs, the only job you need an Assault Frigate for is heavy tackle; turn up for a fleet in a Retribution and you'll probably be asked to come back in something useful.

On top of that, just to rub it in, the alternative for Amarr AF pilots is outdamaged by T1 Frigates. Someone at CCP is having a laugh at your expense Neutral

chromez0r
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2009.04.21 20:38:00 - [14]
 

agree 100% with this, af's need that little bit extra, and as mentioned why is it that the retribution only has 1 mid slot :<. kinda makes it hard to pvp in it with only 1 mid slot (you either put in a mwd/ab to keep up with things, or you stick a point and not be able to keep up.)

Larkonis TrassIer
State Breast Inspectorate

Posted - 2009.04.21 21:59:00 - [15]
 


Wang Jing
Posted - 2009.04.22 11:19:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Wang Jing on 22/04/2009 11:33:29
Edited by: Wang Jing on 22/04/2009 11:19:36
Not one, but two CSM candidates responding Smile I'm glad this issue has your support guys, and as an alt of one of the less legally inhibited pod pilots i'm pleased to see our esteem C+P candidate here! As a fairly new pirate in a 2-man corp, I fly solo for a lot of the time, and I need a ship small and fast enough to avoid the camps and blobs, yet with the firepower to deal with any juicy targets I come across. With a little bit of a boost, Assault Frigates could be the perfect tool for players like myself who want to avoid the whos-got-the-bigger-blob style of PvP.

Hopefully this thread alongside the many mentions in the big thread of balance will get CCPs attention and get this sorted Very Happy

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2009.04.22 14:47:00 - [17]
 

Why be so surprised? It's a good idea. : O )

Noa Fuyu
Amarr
Resilience.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.04.22 15:25:00 - [18]
 

Veng is the Tanking ship. If anything it should get bonus's to tank harder. Retri is the killing machine. Pair em up and fun fun fun :)

Finnroth
The Guardian Agency

Posted - 2009.04.22 15:34:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Finnroth on 23/04/2009 17:10:25
Definite thumb up for this one, poor little friggis.

Wang Jing
Posted - 2009.04.22 15:49:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Noa Fuyu
Veng is the Tanking ship. If anything it should get bonus's to tank harder. Retri is the killing machine. Pair em up and fun fun fun :)


The problem is unless rockets are fixed, the vengeance does better damage using blasters or lasers, even with the rocket damage bonus. It really needs a double damage bonus to redeem it.

I do agree with a tanking bonus for some ships though, personally I think the Enyo would be a good candidate.

Foolish Bob
Caldari
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.04.22 16:30:00 - [21]
 

I love assault frigs, but I'm not sure that an added bonus is necessarily the way to go - I think it might be too blunt an instrument.

Take the vengence for instance - it's role isn't a dps ship - the whole reason for it being there as I see it is for you to sit there eating dps and holding point whilst your gang warps in to gank the poor fool you've got locked down - something that it does suprememly well. If you gave it a dps boost too, I'm not sure that's not overpowered.

On the other side of the coin, I'd equally say that the retribution doesn't need an extra bonus, but I'd sell my dear old gran into slavery for an extra mid and 44tf of CPU.

This thread needs to be more specific - after all wolfpacks of a few inties and af are nasty little blighters - even when your fleet is only the other side of the system. Once we have concrete improvements that won't attract the nerf bat, then we'll have something to support.

The Monkeysphere
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.04.22 16:48:00 - [22]
 

Assault frigates need to be nerfed.

Odysseus Black
Posted - 2009.04.22 16:55:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: The Monkeysphere
Assault frigates need to be nerfed.


Cute.

Adding a support for more T2 Bonuses like all the other T2 ships.

Not supporting meddling with the slot layouts.. I think the bonuses will do enough.

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2009.04.22 16:56:00 - [24]
 

I'm always leary of slot changes... other than the dreaded 1 Mid Slot Amarr Tech 2 ships.

The Monkeysphere
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.04.22 17:00:00 - [25]
 

1 med slot Amarr ships are fine. Cross-train Caldari if you're too stupid to figure out a good ship setup.

Odysseus Black
Posted - 2009.04.22 17:11:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: The Monkeysphere
1 med slot Amarr ships are fine. Cross-train Caldari if you're too stupid to figure out a good ship setup.


Troll.

This thread is about T2 Bonuses and the fact that the Assault ships don't have enough.

Maybe you should try hooked on phonics if you're too stupid to read forums.

The Monkeysphere
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.04.22 17:24:00 - [27]
 

I find assault frigates to be fine. In fact I have innumerable kills in them, including the supposedly terrible Retribution.


You ought to stop sucking.

Efrim Black
Gallente
Thanatos Industries
Posted - 2009.04.22 17:34:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: The Monkeysphere
I find assault frigates to be fine. (brag)

You ought to stop sucking.


Thats your opinion, and it's nice. (Good for you)

Sucking has nothing to do with the proposal. It's not even a matter of opinion. It's a basic Logical argument.

Premise 1 : T2 Ships have 4 bonuses.
Premise 2 : Assault ships are T2 Ships.
Premise 3 : Assault ships do not have 4 bonuses.

Conclusion : Assault ships should either get 4 bonuses, or all other t2 ships should get nerfed.

Between those two options, I'll take the AFs getting a bit of love. If you like Assault ships, what possible reason could you have for not wanting them to be a bit better?


The Monkeysphere
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.04.22 17:43:00 - [29]
 

They do have 4 bonuses. The fourth one is hidden, that's all.

It used to be public but people kept whining about the apparently bad bonus. A lot of people are very bad at this game.

Doublemuff
Posted - 2009.04.22 18:13:00 - [30]
 

+1


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