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Rukia KuchikiSan
Posted - 2009.04.16 15:46:00 - [1]
 

I'm reading a lot of people suggesting the torp golem to run missions.
I remember not so long time ago when everybody was saying that a Raven with torp is just bad, becouse the most of the ships in the missions are not bs and torp are just slower in killing them.

So i was wondering, why is the Golem different? Is it becouse of the painter bonus? Is it really that effective?

FlyinS
Caldari
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Posted - 2009.04.16 15:53:00 - [2]
 

Painters definitely help, and the bonus the Golem gets is nice.

But mostly, don't pay attention to 99% of the whining you see on the forums.

Terminus Vindictus
Caldari
Posted - 2009.04.16 16:51:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Rukia KuchikiSan

So i was wondering, why is the Golem different? Is it becouse of the painter bonus? Is it really that effective?


Two main differences.

1) The Golem gets a bonus to tractor beams, and a HUGE cargo bay, so it's great at looting/salvaging on the go. That increases your mission income significantly.

2) The combination of the shield boost bonus and the painter bonus means you can fit fewer shield mods on the Golem and still survive all L4 missions, which in turn allows you to fit two painters to help the torps. Two painters plus the bonus makes a big difference, especially if you also have the advanced painter skills on top of that (which you should have if you fly a ship with painters). The painters basically turn rat targets into the equivalent signature size of a target +2 classes higher, making your torps very effective. The reduced need for shield mods also means you can fit missile range rigs on your Golem to get your torps to hit orbiting BSs, whereas on a Raven you'd need those rig slots for CCCs.

Gul Rashen
Posted - 2009.04.16 16:53:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Gul Rashen on 16/04/2009 16:57:32
1. TP-Bonus
2. Explo Velo-Bonus
3. 7 Medslots
4. 30% more Cap/s than the Raven, means you're needing less slots for Cap-Mods and having more free Slots for Tank+TPs
5. 37,5% Boostbonus means that you're needing less Slots for the Tank and having more free Slots for TPs
6. Only 4 Launchers means less Problems

Rukia KuchikiSan
Posted - 2009.04.16 16:55:00 - [5]
 

All clear, thx Wink

Arfvedson
Posted - 2009.04.16 20:06:00 - [6]
 

Torp golem is nice, but it isnt worth it. It CAN be effective, but if your not paying close enough attention, and your drones die, your screwed.

Warp scramblers on missions are almost always frigates. You cant kill frigs with torps. Sure, you can tank forever, but fat lot of good it does you if your stuck there and cant leave :p

If you do use a golem with torps, you NEED to have a frig/cruiser killing companion. In the end however, it's more isk to do missions by yourself with a cruise golem getting all the loot and reward yourself, than splitting it with someone else. Of course, if you can support 2 combat toons yourself and still run the salvager, thats even better.

Dreamwalker
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.04.17 03:31:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Dreamwalker on 17/04/2009 03:31:49
Originally by: Arfvedson
Torp golem is nice, but it isnt worth it. It CAN be effective, but if your not paying close enough attention, and your drones die, your screwed.

Warp scramblers on missions are almost always frigates. You cant kill frigs with torps. Sure, you can tank forever, but fat lot of good it does you if your stuck there and cant leave :p

If you do use a golem with torps, you NEED to have a frig/cruiser killing companion. In the end however, it's more isk to do missions by yourself with a cruise golem getting all the loot and reward yourself, than splitting it with someone else. Of course, if you can support 2 combat toons yourself and still run the salvager, thats even better.


I'm happy to see I wasn't the only one who died using a torp golem setup. I had this exact problem and without the perma shield my golem was popped before I could jump an alt there to help out.

I use a cruise missile golem and when I log all my chars on I use a cruise/torp golems with an alt to gang shield boost in a BC. Those missions take all of 5 mins or less.

Traska Gannel
Posted - 2009.04.17 04:06:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Arfvedson
Torp golem is nice, but it isnt worth it. It CAN be effective, but if your not paying close enough attention, and your drones die, your screwed.

Warp scramblers on missions are almost always frigates. You cant kill frigs with torps. Sure, you can tank forever, but fat lot of good it does you if your stuck there and cant leave :p

If you do use a golem with torps, you NEED to have a frig/cruiser killing companion. In the end however, it's more isk to do missions by yourself with a cruise golem getting all the loot and reward yourself, than splitting it with someone else. Of course, if you can support 2 combat toons yourself and still run the salvager, thats even better.


Well ... I think this is a matter of skills and/or fittings not the ship itself.

1) A Golem will carry 5 light and 5 medium drones. If you somehow lose all 10 drones then you really weren't paying attention.

2) The drones really don't matter that much. I have T2 drones with Drone Interfacing V and specific drone specialization skills at 2. (The other drone skills are 3 or 4).

The torps on my Golem, with one target painter, will kill a scrambling NPC frigate FASTER than the 5 drones do (medium or light). After taking out the battleships I usually end up using volleys of torps finishing off frigates so I can move on rather than wait on the drones. If I mount 2 target painters ... HAC/AF/cruisers all blow up even faster.

3) Clearly though there are a range of experiences which differ from mine ... so there should be a difference in character skill, ship fitting or player skills to account for it. I know from experience that torps are effective against all mission NPCs for Blood Raider/Sansha/Serpentis/Gurista/Angel missions including scrambling frigates.

Some tips/questions:
Do you use the appropriate ammo type for the mission rats?
Do you use the mission appropriate drones?
Do you always, always use at least one target painter? (Preferably 2 if you can sacrifice the tank)
What do you use for a tank? (2 Pith-B small shield boosters works great by the way)
Do you read the mission reports at eve-survival.org? (Helps to avoid too much aggro)

There are some missions where a Torp Golem is a poor choice - the one that immediately comes to mind for me is the AE4 bonus room. The cruise missile batteries are out of torp range - closing on the batteries means increased DPS from the NPCs. This room is done better using a cruise Golem.

Finally, I have found that the Golem will typically outperform a Nighthawk (in terms of speed as well as loot/salvage) even in frigate heavy missions. So - my conclusion from my experiences is that a Golem is definitely worth it :)

DTson Gauur
Caldari
Blend.
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2009.04.17 05:03:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Arfvedson
Torp golem is nice, but it isnt worth it. It CAN be effective, but if your not paying close enough attention, and your drones die, your screwed.

Warp scramblers on missions are almost always frigates. You cant kill frigs with torps. Sure, you can tank forever, but fat lot of good it does you if your stuck there and cant leave :p

If you do use a golem with torps, you NEED to have a frig/cruiser killing companion.


Well... My Golem sure seems to be defective then, since I _CAN_ kill frigs with torps if the need arises, it just takes hideous amount of them (like 12+ volleys [44+ torps]) and I only use 1 TP (+49% sig bonus from it) Only things I _CAN'T_ kill with torps is those Spider Drones but they just web you which ain't a problem usually.

If you can't kill 'em don't go assuming others can't do it either, you're just using your tools the wrong way if you have trouble. There are a lot of helpful things that make killing frigs with torps a reality (albeit a very SLOW one)

And losing drones in a mission sure will be hard for me too unless it's a multispawn mission since I can take the full room aggro from anything out there... ie. aggro everything, release drones, start keeelling.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.04.17 05:58:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Arfvedson
Torp golem is nice, but it isnt worth it. It CAN be effective, but if your not paying close enough attention, and your drones die, your screwed.

Warp scramblers on missions are almost always frigates. You cant kill frigs with torps. Sure, you can tank forever, but fat lot of good it does you if your stuck there and cant leave :p

If you do use a golem with torps, you NEED to have a frig/cruiser killing companion. In the end however, it's more isk to do missions by yourself with a cruise golem getting all the loot and reward yourself, than splitting it with someone else. Of course, if you can support 2 combat toons yourself and still run the salvager, thats even better.


well then, kill everything else and ctrl+q, wait 2 mins and you are good to go Twisted Evil

Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari
Sarum Industries
Posted - 2009.04.17 06:12:00 - [11]
 

Golem is still an okayish marauder, not the ubar one it was before the missile overhaul, but it's still the swiss army knife of all marauders out there.
If youre running missions in amarr space youre better off using a paladin ofc. And you're clearly better off using a turret ship when engaging lots of angel cartel missions (these suckers speed tank your torps quite alot).

Though I like the golem as with high skills you have the ability to get rid of all cap mods (gets a bit tricky in the hard missions, but doable), only need 3 hardeners and can still fit a target painter and a faction 100mn afterburner next to your tank. Plus ofc 3x ballistic control for the damage.
Not to mention looting and salvaging the important stuff on the go.
With a good afterburner you are somewhere around the 400 m/s mark in terms of velocity, which is a damn nice speed for a battleship.

Giannamichaels
Posted - 2009.04.17 08:12:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Dreamwalker
Edited by: Dreamwalker on 17/04/2009 03:31:49
Originally by: Arfvedson
Torp golem is nice, but it isnt worth it. It CAN be effective, but if your not paying close enough attention, and your drones die, your screwed.

Warp scramblers on missions are almost always frigates. You cant kill frigs with torps. Sure, you can tank forever, but fat lot of good it does you if your stuck there and cant leave :p

If you do use a golem with torps, you NEED to have a frig/cruiser killing companion. In the end however, it's more isk to do missions by yourself with a cruise golem getting all the loot and reward yourself, than splitting it with someone else. Of course, if you can support 2 combat toons yourself and still run the salvager, thats even better.


I'm happy to see I wasn't the only one who died using a torp golem setup. I had this exact problem and without the perma shield my golem was popped before I could jump an alt there to help out.

I use a cruise missile golem and when I log all my chars on I use a cruise/torp golems with an alt to gang shield boost in a BC. Those missions take all of 5 mins or less.


You lost a torp golem on a mission? That is the biggest epic fail ive seen in quite some time. Unbelieveable, i am in deep shock. I didnt think it was possible you must have had a lame setup and low skills.

Gul Rashen
Posted - 2009.04.17 08:21:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Arfvedson
Torp golem is nice, but it isnt worth it. It CAN be effective, but if your not paying close enough attention, and your drones die, your screwed.

Warp scramblers on missions are almost always frigates. You cant kill frigs with torps. Sure, you can tank forever, but fat lot of good it does you if your stuck there and cant leave :p

If you do use a golem with torps, you NEED to have a frig/cruiser killing companion.


Traska answered this already but i have to comment it too.
Loosing all Drones? Don't sleep+playWink
Torp-Golem needs good skills. With good skills and the right Fitting you can kill Cruisers and Non-Elite Frigs with 1-2 Volleys.
Torp-Golem is very effective for all Pilots who know what they are doing.

Tamahra
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2009.04.17 08:23:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Arfvedson
Torp golem is nice, but it isnt worth it. It CAN be effective, but if your not paying close enough attention, and your drones die, your screwed.

Warp scramblers on missions are almost always frigates. You cant kill frigs with torps. Sure, you can tank forever, but fat lot of good it does you if your stuck there and cant leave :p

If you do use a golem with torps, you NEED to have a frig/cruiser killing companion. In the end however, it's more isk to do missions by yourself with a cruise golem getting all the loot and reward yourself, than splitting it with someone else. Of course, if you can support 2 combat toons yourself and still run the salvager, thats even better.


sorry, but if you know what youre doing in level IV missions you will NEVER EVER lose your golem because you got scrambled and cant destroy those frigates....

so that would mean: torp golem is only for the advanced mission runners who know their ****

Guygeboe
Caldari
Viper-Squad
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2009.04.17 10:33:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Arfvedson
Torp golem is nice, but it isnt worth it. It CAN be effective, but if your not paying close enough attention, and your drones die, your screwed.

Warp scramblers on missions are almost always frigates. You cant kill frigs with torps. Sure, you can tank forever, but fat lot of good it does you if your stuck there and cant leave :p

If you do use a golem with torps, you NEED to have a frig/cruiser killing companion. In the end however, it's more isk to do missions by yourself with a cruise golem getting all the loot and reward yourself, than splitting it with someone else. Of course, if you can support 2 combat toons yourself and still run the salvager, thats even better.


Dude, plz remove that post, its so full of bull****.

First of all, you CAN kill frigs with torps, just takes a long time. But you dont have to since you got DRONES to do that.
Cruisers usually die within 1 volley if you use a Target Painter, which it also has a bonus for it.

Golem is the best experience in a ship I've ever had ffs :P.

Dreamwalker
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.04.17 11:42:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Giannamichaels


You lost a torp golem on a mission? That is the biggest epic fail ive seen in quite some time. Unbelieveable, i am in deep shock. I didnt think it was possible you must have had a lame setup and low skills.


Nice alt account,

My Golem was jammed for 20 mins as my unstable cap was slowly going down as I boosted my shields. I had a single point on me and my drones were not attacking anything. So not really a fail so much at ECM laughing at me.

BTW I'm always up for a war dec if you think I fly lame setups and low skills.

Tractory
Posted - 2009.04.19 05:32:00 - [17]
 

mmm never really had problems killing anything in a lvl 4 with a torp golem. I have lost one, but that was soloing in a nasty 0.0 angel plex when i got scrammed by 12 frigs and full bs aggro in the room. 11 of those 12 frigs died before i did.

Personally i prefer to fit a webber and a tp rather than 2 painters, as tackling frigs are always in web range. I cant say i have done the maths to see which set up is more effective though, but its never been an issue to kill the little blighters before....

Jezebel Leroux
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.04.19 09:36:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Dreamwalker
My Golem was jammed for 20 mins as my unstable cap was slowly going down as I boosted my shields. I had a single point on me and my drones were not attacking anything. So not really a fail so much at ECM laughing at me.

BTW I'm always up for a war dec if you think I fly lame setups and low skills.


Jeez, over 20 minutes and you couldn't kill whatever other stuff was actually doing damage suffficient to kill you? Over 20 minutes you couldn't get a little help from your corp mates or local people? You couldn't just quit out? Why were your drones not attacking anything, what does that mean?

Gul Rashen
Posted - 2009.04.19 10:04:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Gul Rashen on 19/04/2009 10:09:20
...and what the H... have that to do with Torps? The same would have happened with CMs fitted.

It's not so hard to fit a permatank on a Torp-Golem.

Rukia KuchikiSan
Posted - 2009.04.19 11:22:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Rukia KuchikiSan on 19/04/2009 11:23:04
Originally by: Gul Rashen
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 19/04/2009 10:09:20
...and what the H... have that to do with Torps? The same would have happened with CMs fitted.

It's not so hard to fit a permatank on a Torp-Golem.


Well.. this was a "why torps are bad on a raven and good on a golem" thread but it evolved in a "how people die in a f*ing expensive ship" one Laughing


 

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