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Turkoyero
Posted - 2009.04.12 23:33:00 - [1]
 

Now what leads me to believe that mission theft is encouraged... Is the fact that, when you blow up a ship.. The contents of that wreck belongs to the player. If someone were to loot the contents of the wreck, they will be flagged and you will be allowed to shoot them. That gives you a chance to get something in return from the person who tried to take something that belongs to you.

However; when someone salvages one of your wrecks, they are not flagged for pvp, and there's nothing you can do to stop them. So, let's say that you start on level 1 missions like everyone else does.. You work your way up to level 2-3 like everyone else. Finally you get to level 4 missions, you clearly can't do these missions with a small ship. You have to get a battleship, battlecruiser with some loadouts, just to think about doing these missions. Now, it was your hardwork and dedication that enabled you the ability to do the harder missions of the game. Because of your time and effort spent, you get abit more rewards for your time. Being that as the contents from the wrecks are worth more and there's more to salvage.

Now, someone who is standing by, just waiting for you to do those level 4 missions. They warp into your location, even though you are in a level 4 mission.. Which could basically be called an instance, your own private battle. This player runs up to each one of the wrecks you've created with your ship, your time, and your money and starts to salvage those wrecks.. Which means the money that was going to you, is now being taken away from you and put into someone elses pocket. Someone who either clearly can't do level 4 missions. Or can and just wants to take something that doesn't belong to them to give you grief.

Yes, the CONCORD considers this a " Clean Up " act, trying to clear the litter in space you created by accepting a mission and blowing up the bad guys. However; the fact remains that you were going to salvage that wreck yourself, in my case, I was on a second account doing it right after blowing up the ships. Still losing several of the wrecks to a thief though, because there's no protection vs that kind of theft. I'm not saying that you should entirely take away the ability to salvage someone elses wrecks... But I am saying that it feels like theft is encouraged in missions. Here's some of my ideas on how to prevent such theft.

1: You could make it impossible for players to go into someone elses mission area when they are not apart of the fleet. ( High Sec Only )

2: You could make it when you attempt to salvage someones wreck in a mission area it will flag you for pvp just as if you were trying to take the contents of that wreck.

3: You could make it where, when you blow up a ship, the wreck that forms belongs to the person/fleet who destroyed that ship for a period of time. So if someone attempts to salvage that wreck, it'll flag them for PVP. So if the wreck would otherwise fade in 2 hours, for 1 hour it belongs to the person/fleet who destroyed the ship and the remaining hour is " free game ".

These are simple ideas on how to create some form of protection for the mission runner. Because as it is now, you can fly into a mission and make money off someone elses hard work. That person not being able to protect his goods suggests that the current policy encourages that particular type of theft. I'm merely suggesting, that for those whom do missions for the salvaged matrials be able to have some sort of protection even if that protection is limited to half the duration of the wrecks life. I'm only suggesting these types of changes for missions.

Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2009.04.12 23:37:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Turkoyero
Now, it was your hardwork and dedication that enabled you the ability to do the harder missions of the game. Because of your time and effort spent, you get abit more rewards for your time. Being that as the contents from the wrecks are worth more and there's more to salvage.


It was my time and effort spent, hard work and dedication to become the Ninja Salvager I am today (i.e. "The Most Famous One") and thus, I humbly...

/thread

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.04.12 23:45:00 - [3]
 



Quote:
Because of your time and effort spent, you get abit more rewards for your time. Being that as the contents from the wrecks are worth more and there's more to salvage.


The mission rewards are:

-Bounties

-LP/ISK reward

-Loot.

Salvage is not a mission reward. Salvage is something that can be harvested from a mission BYPRODUCT.
Quote:

They warp into your location, even though you are in a level 4 mission.. Which could basically be called an instance, your own private battle.


No and no. CCP has stated repeatedly that they are vehemently against the idea of ANY kind of instancing, and there is a reason for this.
Quote:

This player runs up to each one of the wrecks you've created with your ship, your time, and your money and starts to salvage those wrecks.. Which means the money that was going to you, is now being taken away from you and put into someone elses pocket. Someone who either clearly can't do level 4 missions. Or can and just wants to take something that doesn't belong to them to give you grief.



Wrong. Salvage does not belong to you. Wrecks are comparable to asteroids, which are harvested for useful materials. They do not belong to you. Someone who goes belt ratting does not gain ownership over the asteroids, just as someone who goes missionrunning doesn't gain ownership over the wrecks.

Quote:
However; the fact remains that you were going to salvage that wreck yourself, in my case, I was on a second account doing it right after blowing up the ships.


Salvaging, unlike missionrunning, is a competitive profession. You're basically saying "I'm trying to engage in the salvaging profession for some extra cash, but someone got to the wrecks first Mad".

Quote:
Still losing several of the wrecks to a thief though, because there's no protection vs that kind of theft.


Can I get the guy's name? You should have lost all the wrecks if he was doing it properly

Very Happy


Quote:
1: You could make it impossible for players to go into someone elses mission area when they are not apart of the fleet. ( High Sec Only )


No instancing in my EVE. Will never happen. EVE is a multiplayer game and yes, that means you will occasionally have people who do stuff that might annoy/inconvenience you.

Quote:
2: You could make it when you attempt to salvage someones wreck in a mission area it will flag you for pvp just as if you were trying to take the contents of that wreck.


Salvage is not loot...it is not owned by you. Wrecks are a byproduct of battles that can be harvested, not your free monies.

Quote:
3: You could make it where, when you blow up a ship, the wreck that forms belongs to the person/fleet who destroyed that ship for a period of time. So if someone attempts to salvage that wreck, it'll flag them for PVP. So if the wreck would otherwise fade in 2 hours, for 1 hour it belongs to the person/fleet who destroyed the ship and the remaining hour is " free game ".


Same as above.


Quote:
These are simple ideas on how to create some form of protection for the mission runner. Because as it is now, you can fly into a mission and make money off someone elses hard work. That person not being able to protect his goods suggests that the current policy encourages that particular type of theft. I'm merely suggesting, that for those whom do missions for the salvaged matrials be able to have some sort of protection even if that protection is limited to half the duration of the wrecks life. I'm only suggesting these types of changes for missions.


HARD work? Missionrunning is hard work? Laughing And you're not making money off of someone's effort-you're making money off of your own time spent harvesting.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.04.12 23:49:00 - [4]
 

Intact modules = spoils of war -> yours
Wreck = garbage -> first come first serve

This is the law laid down by CONCORD.

Obey!

NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
Posted - 2009.04.13 00:02:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: NightF0x on 13/04/2009 00:05:44
Edited by: NightF0x on 13/04/2009 00:02:55
This is the only thread that you really need to read...

Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK?
It's not.
It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.

If you're surprised as to why the server does not consider it your stuff, it's because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage, not to further increase the revenue from mission grinding.. I doubt anyone with a perspective thinks we need to high-sec increase mission grinding any further.

Simple solution to the non-issue.
Please don't take this as any bashing just for suggesting ideas. I have nothing against brainstorming on the forums. However, I'm going to let you in on a little CCP non-secret which is: "NPE". Wink
EVE is a really hostile game. We love how hostile it is.. we never meant for it to be a breeze. However, it's also accepted that, on top of the intended complexity, the tools and rules you play with/by aren't highly intuative. You are suggesting a dual functionality.. one for newbies and another for vets (of course you did not say that, however just because some people chill in newb corps and ain't newbs doesn't mean we should punish the new players) and to compound the inherent confusion in that the newbie functionality is more hostile and more open to griefing than the veteran functionality. It shouldn't be much different.. and if it had to be it should be the other way around. Wink


http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=971872&page=1#30

oh and IBJA (In Before JackAss) :D

Turkoyero
Posted - 2009.04.13 00:55:00 - [6]
 

Now, you can try to justify the actions of those whom salvage the wrecks from missions. You can say all kinds of things, like it's not theft, the stuff doesn't belong to you until it's in your cargo hold. It's a mini profession so all the wrecks in the game are fair game for anything regardless of the situation. The fact remains though, the only person that would try to justify such actions is a person trying to gain profit off of someone elses work.

Sure, it takes a small amount of time and money to put up probes so you can scan out the wrecks.. And sure, it takes sometime to salvage the wrecks from someone elses kills.. But not nearly as much time as the person running the mission. My point isn't that the person trying to make money from salvage is wrong, my point is merely the person trying to salvage wrecks from the person running a mission has an unfair advantage.

How is it an unfair advantage you say? Simple, now lets say the person running the level four mission is in a battleship designed to solo all level 4 missions. Well, he's not designed to salvage wrecks on the spot, even if he could with some level 4 missions it'd be suicide to even attempt it. The only way that person has a chance at seeing those ships salvaged is by destroying all those ships, warping out, getting into another ship and coming back to get some of the benefits of his effort.

That's the problem right there, now the ninja salvager doesn't have that disadvantage.. He can simply warp in while you're doing your business, take all your wrecks and leave. And there's nothing you can do about it, that's the whole point. There's nothing to stop him, no way to prevent it and no way to beat him to the wrecks. So in the game of professions, it's not fair to the mission runner.

By no way am I complaining, or crying a river over a lost 8% profit because a bad ninja salvager tried to steal from me. I'm simply saying that's a 8% that there's no prevention to, no skill to train, no protective measure to take. It's a dead loss because the way the system is set up for missions.

The unfair advantage could easily be prevented, now it takes some an hour or more to clear out all the ships in a level 4 mission solo. With my idea, it would leave very little time for the mission runner to even loot all his wrecks. But it at least would give him a chance to get some of them, compared to not getting any of them at all. Even with that 1 hour time, that mission runner would have to complete that mission perfectly. Else, he'll run out of time and his wrecks are now open to the public.

I'm not trying to suggest the way salvage works in all of eve should be changed, simply saying that the way it works in conjunction with missions is entirely unfair to the mission runner. Anyone can go out to a belt somewhere and salvage that way, or into low sec space and brave the salvage there. Either of those ways would actually be making the salvager work for his profit, rather than ride on the back of mission runners with no disadvantage, or chance of defeat/destruction of ones ship. Now you make the suggestions that this game is designed to be hostile by nature? If that were so, the person trying to salvage from a mission would be flagged for pvp.

Now, Continue the flames. ^_^


NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
Posted - 2009.04.13 01:46:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Turkoyero
Now, you can try to justify the actions of those whom salvage the wrecks from missions. You can say all kinds of things, like it's not theft, the stuff doesn't belong to you until it's in your cargo hold. It's a mini profession so all the wrecks in the game are fair game for anything regardless of the situation. The fact remains though, the only person that would try to justify such actions is a person trying to gain profit off of someone elses work.

Sure, it takes a small amount of time and money to put up probes so you can scan out the wrecks.. And sure, it takes sometime to salvage the wrecks from someone elses kills.. But not nearly as much time as the person running the mission. My point isn't that the person trying to make money from salvage is wrong, my point is merely the person trying to salvage wrecks from the person running a mission has an unfair advantage.

How is it an unfair advantage you say? Simple, now lets say the person running the level four mission is in a battleship designed to solo all level 4 missions. Well, he's not designed to salvage wrecks on the spot, even if he could with some level 4 missions it'd be suicide to even attempt it. The only way that person has a chance at seeing those ships salvaged is by destroying all those ships, warping out, getting into another ship and coming back to get some of the benefits of his effort.

That's the problem right there, now the ninja salvager doesn't have that disadvantage.. He can simply warp in while you're doing your business, take all your wrecks and leave. And there's nothing you can do about it, that's the whole point. There's nothing to stop him, no way to prevent it and no way to beat him to the wrecks. So in the game of professions, it's not fair to the mission runner.

By no way am I complaining, or crying a river over a lost 8% profit because a bad ninja salvager tried to steal from me. I'm simply saying that's a 8% that there's no prevention to, no skill to train, no protective measure to take. It's a dead loss because the way the system is set up for missions.

The unfair advantage could easily be prevented, now it takes some an hour or more to clear out all the ships in a level 4 mission solo. With my idea, it would leave very little time for the mission runner to even loot all his wrecks. But it at least would give him a chance to get some of them, compared to not getting any of them at all. Even with that 1 hour time, that mission runner would have to complete that mission perfectly. Else, he'll run out of time and his wrecks are now open to the public.

I'm not trying to suggest the way salvage works in all of eve should be changed, simply saying that the way it works in conjunction with missions is entirely unfair to the mission runner. Anyone can go out to a belt somewhere and salvage that way, or into low sec space and brave the salvage there. Either of those ways would actually be making the salvager work for his profit, rather than ride on the back of mission runners with no disadvantage, or chance of defeat/destruction of ones ship. Now you make the suggestions that this game is designed to be hostile by nature? If that were so, the person trying to salvage from a mission would be flagged for pvp.

Now, Continue the flames. ^_^




You can try and justify the extra mission handouts all you want but if CCP isn't willing to change their stance any time soon then you are just wasting your breath.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.04.13 02:05:00 - [8]
 

Quote:
How is it an unfair advantage you say? Simple, now lets say the person running the level four mission is in a battleship designed to solo all level 4 missions. Well, he's not designed to salvage wrecks on the spot, even if he could with some level 4 missions it'd be suicide to even attempt it. The only way that person has a chance at seeing those ships salvaged is by destroying all those ships, warping out, getting into another ship and coming back to get some of the benefits of his effort.

That would be because salvage is not a mission reward, it is merely something some missionrunners do after a mission to take advantage of a wreck field they have easy acess to. If someone else beats you to the wreck field, then tough ****.


Quote:
By no way am I complaining, or crying a river over a lost 8% profit because a bad ninja salvager tried to steal from me. I'm simply saying that's a 8% that there's no prevention to, no skill to train, no protective measure to take. It's a dead loss because the way the system is set up for missions.


There's not supposed to be any protection because salvage is not ****ing yours. Quotes from CCP have confirmed this.

Until you show us why you should own the wrecks, any argument you make is entirely moot.


Quote:
The unfair advantage could easily be prevented, now it takes some an hour or more to clear out all the ships in a level 4 mission solo. With my idea, it would leave very little time for the mission runner to even loot all his wrecks. But it at least would give him a chance to get some of them, compared to not getting any of them at all. Even with that 1 hour time, that mission runner would have to complete that mission perfectly. Else, he'll run out of time and his wrecks are now open to the public.


There is no unfair advantage. The SALVAGING PROFESSION is entirely separate from the MISSIONRUNNING PROFESSION. It's not unfair that someone who takes initiative to look for wreck fields and gets ALL of his income from wreck fields has easier access to salvage than someone who spends most of his time in the MISSIONRUNNING PROFESSION who then switches over to SALVAGING in order to make easy cash.


Quote:
I'm not trying to suggest the way salvage works in all of eve should be changed, simply saying that the way it works in conjunction with missions is entirely unfair to the mission runner. Anyone can go out to a belt somewhere and salvage that way, or into low sec space and brave the salvage there. Either of those ways would actually be making the salvager work for his profit, rather than ride on the back of mission runners with no disadvantage, or chance of defeat/destruction of ones ship. Now you make the suggestions that this game is designed to be hostile by nature? If that were so, the person trying to salvage from a mission would be flagged for pvp.


You didn't. you couldn't. There's abso****inglutely no way that you could possibly have just suggested that salvagers should have to go into lowsec to put themselves at risk, when you RUN MISSIONS IN HISEC.

You answered your own problem in the above paragraph: Mission in lowsec. You don't even need to wait for someone to salvage "your" wrecks to shoot at them then.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2009.04.13 07:52:00 - [9]
 

Nobody likes a cry baby because it is people like you who nerf the game.

Sorry eve isnt for you.

Can I has your stuff?

Galvatine
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.04.13 07:58:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Turkoyero
Now, you can try to justify the actions of those whom salvage the wrecks from missions. You can say all kinds of things, like it's not theft, the stuff doesn't belong to you until it's in your cargo hold. It's a mini profession so all the wrecks in the game are fair game for anything regardless of the situation. The fact remains though, the only person that would try to justify such actions is a person trying to gain profit off of someone elses work.

Sure, it takes a small amount of time and money to put up probes so you can scan out the wrecks.. And sure, it takes sometime to salvage the wrecks from someone elses kills.. But not nearly as much time as the person running the mission. My point isn't that the person trying to make money from salvage is wrong, my point is merely the person trying to salvage wrecks from the person running a mission has an unfair advantage.

How is it an unfair advantage you say? Simple, now lets say the person running the level four mission is in a battleship designed to solo all level 4 missions. Well, he's not designed to salvage wrecks on the spot, even if he could with some level 4 missions it'd be suicide to even attempt it. The only way that person has a chance at seeing those ships salvaged is by destroying all those ships, warping out, getting into another ship and coming back to get some of the benefits of his effort.

That's the problem right there, now the ninja salvager doesn't have that disadvantage.. He can simply warp in while you're doing your business, take all your wrecks and leave. And there's nothing you can do about it, that's the whole point. There's nothing to stop him, no way to prevent it and no way to beat him to the wrecks. So in the game of professions, it's not fair to the mission runner.

By no way am I complaining, or crying a river over a lost 8% profit because a bad ninja salvager tried to steal from me. I'm simply saying that's a 8% that there's no prevention to, no skill to train, no protective measure to take. It's a dead loss because the way the system is set up for missions.

The unfair advantage could easily be prevented, now it takes some an hour or more to clear out all the ships in a level 4 mission solo. With my idea, it would leave very little time for the mission runner to even loot all his wrecks. But it at least would give him a chance to get some of them, compared to not getting any of them at all. Even with that 1 hour time, that mission runner would have to complete that mission perfectly. Else, he'll run out of time and his wrecks are now open to the public.

I'm not trying to suggest the way salvage works in all of eve should be changed, simply saying that the way it works in conjunction with missions is entirely unfair to the mission runner. Anyone can go out to a belt somewhere and salvage that way, or into low sec space and brave the salvage there. Either of those ways would actually be making the salvager work for his profit, rather than ride on the back of mission runners with no disadvantage, or chance of defeat/destruction of ones ship. Now you make the suggestions that this game is designed to be hostile by nature? If that were so, the person trying to salvage from a mission would be flagged for pvp.

Now, Continue the flames. ^_^




Incorrect, you can use a maurauder and find the problem is automagically solved

Abuta Beki
Posted - 2009.04.13 10:47:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Galvatine
Incorrect, you can use a maurauder and find the problem is automagically solved


Makes sense.
A 500M+ ship that takes months to skill to is a counter to something that costs a few days training and can be done in a frigate. So what you are trying to say is that it currently is the idol of Imba™, right?

Katarlia Simov
Minmatar
Cowboys From Hell
Posted - 2009.04.13 12:54:00 - [12]
 

I discovered pretty quickly that salvaging other people's missions is a) boring and b) not as profitable as running missions and salvaging with my alt as I go.

So i gave up.

Some people get their jollies from doing it and more power to them. But theres really not a lot of money in it, at least not as much as just running missions yourself.

Thats the real tipping point for me. Its easier to generate your own wreck fields and salvage them and occasionally loose some salvage to other people that it is to always be taking off other people.

That won't ever stop people from doing it. Some people are always going to be ****s and enjoy denying other people money even if it doesn't actually make them much of a profit.

But this is NOT a big problem. You just have to sigh and shoot the wrecks when someone else warps in.

snowball1
Posted - 2009.04.13 14:07:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: snowball1 on 13/04/2009 14:08:43
Salvaging other people's wrecks is legal and should remain like this.
But dont try to justify it as beeing the right thing to do, with "BYPRODUCT" and "not mission rewards" ****.
Getting the garbage from the wrecks of the ships other people poped, fine, but you dont make it a legit action

elenor drifter
Posted - 2009.04.13 17:21:00 - [14]
 

I CANT BELIVE IT YET A NOTHER POST WHERE X WOW PLAYERS MONE ABOUT OWNERSHIP OF LOOT/SALVAGE!!!

a small list of points:
1- eve is a game and suposed to be fun for everyone
2- salvaging is a 100% viable profeshion
3- if someone loots from ur wrecks/salvages them, then just shoot them(u will be concorded for the latter but hay revenge is sweet ^^)
4- ownership is of goods not scrap mettle
5- have a corp mate with u clearing out the big wrecks
6- if u cant do that then accept the loss and dont EMO rage at some toon in local for using the initiative to salvage ur wrecks to make some quick isk

and finaly

IF U ARE GONNA ***** ON THE FORUMS ABOUT THIS AGAIN, DONT BOTHER! JUST TAKE UR CAREBEAR WAYS BACK TO WOW TILL U GROW UP AND GROW A SET!

eve is harsh so get over urself

fin.

Traidor Disloyal
Private Nuisance
Segregati0n
Posted - 2009.04.13 18:43:00 - [15]
 

I don't salvage the wreaks or take stuff from your wreaks to make isk. I do it to make you mad. I do it to kill your ship. There is more satisfaction and sometimes more isk in that. Nowadays with the cookie cutter way of doing level 4 missions and the way level 4 missions have been defanged people like me are truly the only risk facing mission runners in High Sec. And even then all you have to do is ignore us and we can not do a dang thing.

If someone suggested it be a flagging offense when salvaging I would not mind one bit. Please do.

Aethrwolf
Caldari
Podrratu
Posted - 2009.04.13 19:39:00 - [16]
 

amazing.. this still keeps coming up. CCP has stated that wreck mechanics are working as intended. I happen to disagree about the balance issue of it not aggroing in a PVP based game, BUT I dont get all upset about it either. I've stated my current views in other threads, so I wont re-hash them again here.

I feel I must lol at the post about taking carebear ways back to WOW, though. I honestly feel that doing something that aggravates other players (salvaging wrecks in their missions) and not causing aggro is about as carebear as you can get. Rolling Eyes

Scarlette Harlette
Posted - 2009.04.13 19:52:00 - [17]
 

Turkoyero...

You remember the time before salvaging was introduced? No? Well let me refresh you.

Some years ago, there was no salvaging. Ships popped, and cans with loot were left behind. Then CCP came up with salvaging. They invented it as a mini proffesion. An additional source of income for people. It was NOT invented as extra reward for missions.

So consider the intended difference between before, and after.
Before: missioning (with loot, rat bounty, and mission reward).
After: missioning (with loot, rat bounty, and mission reward) and salvaging.

Consider the ACTUAL difference between before, and after.
Before: missioning (with loot, rat bounty, and mission reward).
After: missioning (with loot, rat bounty, and mission reward) and salvaging, and a bunch of whiny carebears complaining because they don't understand how its meant to work.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2009.04.13 20:08:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Robert Caldera on 13/04/2009 21:44:12
Originally by: Turkoyero
Now, you can try to justify the actions of those ...

no justify. These are rules. Period.

Originally by: Turkoyero
the only person that would try to justify such actions is a person trying to gain profit off of someone elses work.

so what?? you may do it as well.... Learn to scan and go salvaging wrecks other people produce... Btw. its fun, try it out.

Originally by: Turkoyero
My point isn't that the person trying to make money from salvage is wrong, my point is merely the person trying to salvage wrecks from the person running a mission has an unfair advantage.
Why? Where is advantage? Of making ISK @zero risk? Youre doing it in missions as also.


Originally by: Abuta Beki

A 500M+ ship that takes months to skill to is a counter to something that costs a few days training and can be done in a frigate. So what you are trying to say is that it currently is the idol of Imba™, right?


there is nothing to "counter". A marauder helps you to grab the extra candy of salvage, whats actually free for all. If you want the stuff before other people take them, make efforts.

jinkoti boslin2
TORCLAN
Posted - 2009.04.13 21:33:00 - [19]
 

Oh how I love these posts.. They appear so often, and people put such a long time and effort into typing their reasons as to why it should the way they want it to be.. lol

Who's next.. lol me up baby x

Teras Menac
Gallente
Tarantula LLC
The Ancients.
Posted - 2009.04.13 21:39:00 - [20]
 

I can see a lot of flags on people in your fleet if this were the case. As it is only the corp that owns the wrecks can tractor them. Which is highly annoying if you ask me.

Kobushi
Posted - 2009.04.14 05:37:00 - [21]
 

what I love best about this entire debate is the notion of "counter" which seems to be block the opposing party AND get the goods too.

There is a 100% efficient counter to all of this that works and will deter them 100% of the time: pop the wrecks, you have lost nothing of what you might have gained if the salvager would have worked your field completely and hell he/she might even leave before you have to pop the whole thing.

Resivan
Posted - 2009.04.14 07:49:00 - [22]
 

Nah, the real solution is to remove the concept of agent quality, or at least make it only affect the standings needed to talk to them. The rewards for a mission would be based entirely on difficulty and system security.

How does this address the ninja salvaging issue? It removes the incentive for mission runners to concentrate in a handful of systems with top quality L4 agents. If mission runners aren't concentrated, the parasites who feed on them won't have as easy a time finding them. Might even help cut down on lag.

Then too, the OP could just try working for an agent who isn't in a major hub.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2009.04.14 11:47:00 - [23]
 

I'll take what I want and I don't care if you like it or not.

If you want an instanced game go play Freelancer or something.

CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Recreation Of The World
Posted - 2009.04.14 12:09:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: CrestoftheStars on 14/04/2009 12:10:06
should just give you the same agro timer as stealing from your cargo

PS: stealing a mission objective is a exploit, killing the player or harassing him in the mission is not.. hmm who see something wrong in this XD

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2009.04.14 12:19:00 - [25]
 

Have you got proof that stealing a mission objective is an exploit?

I thought It was a valid tactic to take it and hold it to ransom.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2009.04.14 13:35:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: CrestoftheStars

should just give you the same agro timer as stealing from your cargo


there is no reason for this since mission wrecks arent part of the reward.


 

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