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OmegaTron
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.08.25 15:19:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: OmegaTron on 25/08/2004 15:23:09
i posted this in known issues and workarounds but it didn't get the attention it needed...sorta. so i'll try it here.



I have the new ATI X800 Radeon Pro and i've been having alot of problems

for starters WHAT THE HELL IS THIS VPU RECOVER??? every 5 minutes my game(s) keep crashing to desktop prompting me to send this VPU recover ERROR?! I know what your gonna say Well OmegaNutts just shut the dam thing off! right? wrong!
when you shut this option off your game now freezes? WTF!

I've downloaded the latest drivers from ATI and i've even tryed a older driver version and still VPU problems?

Second problem! FATAL ERROR'S!!?? now i'm not a computer wiz but when this window pops up and says that i know something is seriuosly wrong not only that but either my game will freeze up or restart itself? once my computer reboots a window pops up statiing something like "there was a unexpected shutdown because there was a serious problem with (a bunch of numbers would go here)

this topic doesn't entirely involve Eve-Online cause this happens with all my highly demanding memory,CPU and Video sucking games (DOOM III, HitMan: Contracts and Eve-Online)

heres my system specs:

P4 3.2ghz 800mhz L2 Cache
1024mb Dual DDR4 Corsair Pro's w/heat shield and LED
120gb HD Western Digital 7200 rpm 8mb Cache
MSI Neo-2 Platium Edition mobo
ATI Radeon X800 Pro 256mb DDR 8x AGP
6.1 onboard surround sound

PLEASE HELP!! ANYONE!!

i'm just wondering if its because the Video card is so new that most games don't support it yet? that and the right driver hasn't come out yet that will fix these problems.

Also i'm waiting on the Windows XP SP2 to come out. hopeing that will fix most of the problems

/me cross's fingers

is anyone else haveing these problems with this card while playing Eve-Online?


HELP!!Sad

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2004.08.25 15:26:00 - [2]
 

Fatal Errors are usually a sign that you need to upgrade your PSU or that you have Large System Cache enabled.

VPU Recover is, I think, fixed by turning off Fast Writes in your BIOS.

You can download the full release of Windows XP SP2 here.

Note: Onboard sound sound seems to be a consistent issue with Eve - I tried using my onboard nForce sound and it kept crashing Eve.

The X800's are not worth buying, imo. They're so fast and powerful that you need to spend a lot of money on the rest of your system or it'll just hold it back.

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2004.08.25 15:27:00 - [3]
 

Oh, and doublecheck to make sure your AGP is really set to 8x.

ATI drivers have lately been resetting mine to "2x" whenever I install fresh drivers.

Mon Palae
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2004.08.25 15:27:00 - [4]
 

Hard to say for certain but my first guess is you have serious cooling issues. In short, your system is overheating.

There are a number of ways to help with that but for starters try turning all of the graphical enhancements off on your video card. Turn of Antialiasing, Anisotropic filtering, reduce resolution to the minimum for EVE and anything else you can think of. This may or may not help as the x800 runs toasty anyway but by lowwering all these settings you lower the work the card does thus lowering its temperature. Doesn't hurt to give it a try for testing purposes.

Jemba'k Ko'cha
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2004.08.25 15:29:00 - [5]
 

i can help out on the VPU recover. its a clever jobbie that ATI put into the cards. basicaly if your card runs into problems (overheating generaly) it reboots the GPU. normaly if this happens on a normal card the prog you are using closes down. with VPU recover it doesnt, the game keeps going (well it sohuld).

now why ou are getting this problem i dont know, what temp is the card running at?? it looks like you have a very high end system, so i would hope that you have adequate cooling in the case for the kit you have in there. cooling being big heatsinks, as well as inlet and exaust fans.

as for the other errors you are experencing, i cant help there. with that spec your computer should have NO problems running the likes of Doom3 and such. so it possibly a driver issue. try getting in touch with ATI, thir customer service used to be **** but i hear its alot better now :)

OmegaTron
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.08.25 15:34:00 - [6]
 

Quote:
PSU or that you have Large System Cache enabled.


what is PSU? and how do i disable my Large System Cache?


Quote:
Note: Onboard sound sound seems to be a consistent issue with Eve - I tried using my onboard nForce sound and it kept crashing Eve.


sweet! i knew itEvil or Very Mad thx m8Very Happy



Quote:
The X800's are not worth buying, imo. They're so fast and powerful that you need to spend a lot of money on the rest of your system or it'll just hold it back


well i did pretty much biuld my Computer around the X800, is my computer not strong enough for this vid card?


Quote:
You can download the full release of Windows XP SP2


its already out!!??ShockedShockedShocked SWEET!Very HappyVery Happy

thx m8Very Happy

OmegaTron
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.08.25 15:37:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Mon Palae
Hard to say for certain but my first guess is you have serious cooling issues. In short, your system is overheating.

There are a number of ways to help with that but for starters try turning all of the graphical enhancements off on your video card. Turn of Antialiasing, Anisotropic filtering, reduce resolution to the minimum for EVE and anything else you can think of. This may or may not help as the x800 runs toasty anyway but by lowwering all these settings you lower the work the card does thus lowering its temperature. Doesn't hurt to give it a try for testing purposes.


my tower Temp is 27 degrees , my CPU runs at 136 degrees and my Video card runs at 48 degrees. is that good?

Inanna Sumer
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2004.08.25 15:51:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: OmegaTron
... my CPU runs at 136 degrees ...


i hope for your CPU's sake that's in fahrenheit...

OmegaTron
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.08.25 16:11:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Oh, and doublecheck to make sure your AGP is really set to 8x.

ATI drivers have lately been resetting mine to "2x" whenever I install fresh drivers.



really? i'll have to check on that. btw i have all my settings on deffault application controlled, is that good?

OmegaTron
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.08.25 16:14:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Inanna Sumer
Originally by: OmegaTron
... my CPU runs at 136 degrees ...


i hope for your CPU's sake that's in fahrenheit...


yes it isVery Happy

Procion
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.08.25 16:14:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Procion on 25/08/2004 16:16:01
48c for your graphics card is fine ,most x800's run at 40-50c
your motherboard needs a bios update for it to properly detect your CPU temp's.

your PSU might not be powerful enough (PSU = power supply unit) what watt is it rated at? if that was my system i would have built it with a 400+ wat psu.

for further help you might want to register at the www.rage3d.com forum's its the main ATI fansite and the ATI dev's do post there in the ati catalyst driver forum.

Mon Palae
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2004.08.25 16:15:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: OmegaTron
my tower Temp is 27 degrees , my CPU runs at 136 degrees and my Video card runs at 48 degrees. is that good?


I assume you went Celsius, Fahrenheit, Celsius on me with those numbers above because if that second number is in Celsius I'd say you have major issues Shocked.

That 136 if Fahrenheit = ~58 Celsius which is not bad at all. Athlon CPUs for instance tolerate 80-90 C (not sure about Intel but doubtless it is higher than 60 C although you may want to look it up). According to ATI the x800 runs into trouble at 100 C where actual damage may start occuring. Of course they set the thresholds for the card to save itself a good bit below 100 C as a result.

However, are those idle temps or are those temps what you get when banging away in games?

- Check running temp under full load.

- Check where your thresholds are set for the systems to shutdown to avoid damage (mobo, vid card).

- Turn off Overdrive on the video card if it is on. For that matter if you are overclocking anything stop it and fall back to normal settings. Once stable then think of maybe overclocking.

- Make sure your BIOS for your motherboard is up-to-date. Go here: Motherboard Links for starters.

- Check your BIOS settings as relates to your video card. AGP Turbo Mode disabled, Primary Frame Buffer or VGA Frame Buffer disabled, AGP 1x/2x/4x set appropriately (you may want to ry 4x for testing), AGP Aperature at Default or 64MB

Note the BIOS settings are just for testing. Once the system is stable it may well work better with different settings. You can go back and turn things up (turbo, 4x to 8x, etc.) one at a time and see what effect it has. If stability is lost then you know where to back off.

Mon Palae
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2004.08.25 16:17:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Procion
your PSU might not be powerful enough (PSU = power supply unit) what watt is it rated at? if that was my system i would have built it with a 400+ wat psu.


Excellent point. That occurred to me too but i forgot to mention it. I'd say a 400 Watt PSU minimum. 450 Watt if you like a bit of headroom on the system. 350 Watt will probably get most people by. 300 Watt or lower I'd expect problems.

OmegaTron
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.08.25 16:21:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: OmegaTron on 25/08/2004 16:30:01
Quote:
now why ou are getting this problem i dont know, what temp is the card running at?? it looks like you have a very high end system, so i would hope that you have adequate cooling in the case for the kit you have in there. cooling being big heatsinks, as well as inlet and exaust fans.



its a brand new computer. i have 3 case fans and 1 cpu fan with copper heatsink. everything is tempature controlled. Case is 27'C, CPU is 53'C, System temp. is 42'C and Graphics Proccessor is 46'C

OmegaTron
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.08.25 16:25:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Procion
Edited by: Procion on 25/08/2004 16:16:01
48c for your graphics card is fine ,most x800's run at 40-50c
your motherboard needs a bios update for it to properly detect your CPU temp's.

your PSU might not be powerful enough (PSU = power supply unit) what watt is it rated at? if that was my system i would have built it with a 400+ wat psu.

for further help you might want to register at the www.rage3d.com forum's its the main ATI fansite and the ATI dev's do post there in the ati catalyst driver forum.



450watt power supply i have. and thx for the link m8Very Happy

OmegaTron
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.08.25 16:33:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: OmegaTron on 25/08/2004 16:36:29
Originally by: Mon Palae
Originally by: OmegaTron
my tower Temp is 27 degrees , my CPU runs at 136 degrees and my Video card runs at 48 degrees. is that good?


I assume you went Celsius, Fahrenheit, Celsius on me with those numbers above because if that second number is in Celsius I'd say you have major issues Shocked.

That 136 if Fahrenheit = ~58 Celsius which is not bad at all. Athlon CPUs for instance tolerate 80-90 C (not sure about Intel but doubtless it is higher than 60 C although you may want to look it up). According to ATI the x800 runs into trouble at 100 C where actual damage may start occuring. Of course they set the thresholds for the card to save itself a good bit below 100 C as a result.

However, are those idle temps or are those temps what you get when banging away in games?

- Check running temp under full load.

- Check where your thresholds are set for the systems to shutdown to avoid damage (mobo, vid card).

- Turn off Overdrive on the video card if it is on. For that matter if you are overclocking anything stop it and fall back to normal settings. Once stable then think of maybe overclocking.

- Make sure your BIOS for your motherboard is up-to-date. Go here: Motherboard Links for starters.

- Check your BIOS settings as relates to your video card. AGP Turbo Mode disabled, Primary Frame Buffer or VGA Frame Buffer disabled, AGP 1x/2x/4x set appropriately (you may want to ry 4x for testing), AGP Aperature at Default or 64MB

Note the BIOS settings are just for testing. Once the system is stable it may well work better with different settings. You can go back and turn things up (turbo, 4x to 8x, etc.) one at a time and see what effect it has. If stability is lost then you know where to back off.


wow thanks alot m8, but i have no idea what you just saidEmbarassed how do i check my BIOS? i have a MSI mobo and i don't see it in that linkCrying or Very sad

ErrorS
Caldari
Posted - 2004.08.25 16:46:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: ErrorS on 25/08/2004 16:55:16
Google motherboard monitor and let us know your voltages/temps while playing Eve. watch your voltages for a couple of minutes to see what the lowest it dips to is.

Ignore everyone who said wattage is important. Make sure you have a decent quality power supply.. name brand before wattage. A 300W Antec might very well be a better PSU then a no-name 600W.

Sounds to me like it's heat though... Be sure to get your voltages and temps while running full load (check after running eve for 5mins)

hmm.. short term you could try changing the plugin your Radeon is hooked into. I know with my 9700np ATi recommended it had its own line

Also, Athlons are fine at 90C true core temperature. A lot of motherboards don't read the true temperature. Most crap out at 60C or so.. Intel is less but I think their border temp is closer to what a motherboard might read.

though this does not sound like a temperature problem for your CPU.. but it's possible

Have you tried disabling VPU Recover, restartnig, then trying to play eve? is there anything in the backroun that might cause these problems? have you defragmented lately? this is pretty obvious ****, but double check it all before you start replacing PSUs and changing BIOSes.

Should also change chipset drivers if possible (dont know if someone mentioned this already)

Mon Palae
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2004.08.25 16:48:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: OmegaTron
wow thanks alot m8, but i have no idea what you just saidEmbarassed how do i check my BIOS? i have a MSI mobo and i don't see it in that linkCrying or Very sad


MSI = Micro-Star International <-- Linkage to BIOS download area

Also, you did not say if the temps you reported were idle temps or temps you get while running games. That can be a BIG difference. I have an Athlon 64, Radeon 9800 XT and two 10k RPM hard drives running and with two intake fans, three exhaust fans and a monster heatsink+fan running (not to mention mobo fans and video card fans) and my system runs pretty toasty while playing games. It actually heats my room all by itself. Point is cooling these days can be harder than one would think.

ErrorS
Caldari
Posted - 2004.08.25 16:55:00 - [19]
 

dont bother flashing your BIOS unless it specifically says it fixes a problem you have. You can kill your motherboard if you mess up a bios flash

Mon Palae
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2004.08.25 16:57:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Mon Palae on 25/08/2004 17:09:50
I forgot...

Getting into BIOS differs from one manufacturer to another but usually you will see a message appear on the screen (just after power on/reboot) for a few seconds that says something like "Hit DELETE to enter setup". That will take you to you BIOS.

A few things...

- Not all BIOS are created the same. Some motherboards will allow for a wide degree of monkeying with the settings and some hardly let you do more than set the system time. If you buy a PC from a company like Dell they tend to see that the BIOS options are extremely limited (reduces support calls to them).

- Messing with your BIOS settings can potentially hose your computer so be careful. Make note of any settings you change. Note the setting it is now and the new setting so you can go back and put it back if your system crashes. If you are not sure what something does leave it alone. Only make changes if you know what it is you are changing or are instructed to by a manufacturer (what I suggested above are recommended test settings from ATI).

Mon Palae
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2004.08.25 17:03:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: ErrorS
dont bother flashing your BIOS unless it specifically says it fixes a problem you have. You can kill your motherboard if you mess up a bios flash


These days messing up a BIOS flash is generally pretty hard. The flash item can detect if it is appropriate to the machine and not run if it is wrong. Other than that you would need a power failure to screw it up (or turn it off yourself in the middle of it all). Usually there is a BIG warning to this effect while it occurs so you know not to touch anything. The Flash usually finishes in 10-20 seconds so you are not in a danger area for too long.

All of that said different manufacturers have differing levels of how well and how slick the BIOS flash process is. MSI is a big name and I would hope they have their act together in this respect but anything is possible.

If this is a new PC and was built from scratch a BIOS update may very well be in order. It is possible to check what BIOS revision you have versus what a new one is. Each manufacturer differs on how to find this out (sometimes it is not obvious at all) but if you see yuo are way out of revision level this might be worth pursuing.

OmegaTron
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.08.25 17:53:00 - [22]
 

my FSB is set to 200mhz, should this be higher? i thought its suppose to be 800mhz FSB?

Mon Palae
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2004.08.25 18:00:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Mon Palae on 25/08/2004 18:06:16
Originally by: OmegaTron
my FSB is set to 200mhz, should this be higher? i thought its suppose to be 800mhz FSB?


FSB setting depends on the memory you have. The Front Side Bus is the path that connects memory to the CPU.

Usually these days people have DDR memory (DDR = Double Data Rate). So if you think you should have an 800 mhz FSB then the proper setting is more likely 400mhz for the FSB. The DDR RAM multiplies that by 2x giving you an effective 800 mhz FSB. Effectively you would need DDR400 RAM to get the 800mhz.

Again, this all depends on data you have not given. Specific motherboard and specific type of RAM (very specific info...LOTS of different memory out these days).

OmegaTron
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.08.25 18:08:00 - [24]
 

Mobo = Intel 865PE Chipset Based 865PE Neo2-P (MS-6728)(v2.X) ATX Mobo Version 2.1
Deigned for Intel Pentium 4 NorthWood/Prescott(Socket 478)Processors

Memory = 2x dual 512 ddr400 pc3200 Corsair Pros 400mhz each

Mon Palae
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2004.08.25 19:12:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: OmegaTron
Mobo = Intel 865PE Chipset Based 865PE Neo2-P (MS-6728)(v2.X) ATX Mobo Version 2.1
Deigned for Intel Pentium 4 NorthWood/Prescott(Socket 478)Processors

Memory = 2x dual 512 ddr400 pc3200 Corsair Pros 400mhz each


PC3200 Memory is made for a 200Mhz FSB. So your FSB setting seems correct. The DDR part of your memory gives you an effective FSB of 400Mhz.

The part I am unsure about is if you have Dual Channel DDR RAM and if that gets you an effective 800Mhz speed. Been awhile since I studied up on memory specifications...they really are getting confisusing compared to the good olod days when there was just one type of memory to be had.

OmegaTron
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.08.25 20:08:00 - [26]
 

ok m8's heres what i've done:

my mobo is updated

all my drivers are updated

i've gone into BIOS useing the "Quick User Giude" and fiddle around with some stuff.

also your right about not being able to mess stuff up in BIOS, cause the system automatically detects something wrong and emmediately reboots the computer and sets what was wrong to default setting.

Question? AGP Aperture size was set at 64mb, my vid card is 256mb so i changed it to 256mg instead of 64mb. good?

Nomeshta
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2004.08.25 20:15:00 - [27]
 

AGP Aperture should usually be set to around one half or one quarter of your RAM.

256MB is recommended.

OmegaTron
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.08.25 20:17:00 - [28]
 

another Question? my system settings and Mobo utility settings are telling me a have 2x CPU's???Shocked now i know i don't have 2 CPU's cause i have a fiber glass sideing on my case and only see 1 CPU w/fan&heat sink and the small North Bridge cpu w/heat sink only (i think thats what it's called?)

could this cause a problem? my computer thinking it has 2 CPU's? when it only has 1?

i'm a computer n00bEmbarassed

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2004.08.25 20:32:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 25/08/2004 20:45:29
It's because your single processor is hyperthread-enabled and the system shows this as 2 CPU's.

Hyperthreading:
A single CPU that pretends to be two independent CPUS to the software. It can thus execute two program threads simulaneously. This improves performance when many programs are running at once. You might get 110% to 130% of a regular single CPU. Don't expect it to perform like a true dual pair, though.

I have no idea what this does for comatability with games.

Mon Palae
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2004.08.25 20:33:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: OmegaTron
Question? AGP Aperture size was set at 64mb, my vid card is 256mb so i changed it to 256mg instead of 64mb. good?


AGP Aperture Size merely tells the computer how much system memory to use to cache textures if it runs out of video RAM. In some cases setting this too high may actually decrease performance (although not usually).

The main system memory is only used if your video card starts running low on memory and most games today the developers are pretty careful about making sure everything fits in video memory. If the video card has to start accessing system RAM performance will take a noticeable hit.

So, setting it to 256MB is probably ok but not really necessary…especially not for a very modern card like yours is (any card with 128MB+ of video RAM). I’d set it to 128MB personally but it is up to you. The recommended testing setting specified by ATI for the Radeon was setting that to 64MB which is why I mentioned it earlier.

As for dual processors showing up I’d need to see where and exactly what information is being displayed to you. Some BIOS are used across multiple motherboards so it may know about 2 processors and show an entry for that while being perfectly clear in its own head that you really only have one.

Almost no games use dual processors whether you have them or not anyway (except for a special version of Quake I think) so I doubt it is an issue as EVE wouldn’t try to access a second CPU even if your comp was telling it that it had one.

That said correct settings is a good thing anyway so if your comp really is reporting that it has two CPUs available you’ll probably want to stop that but I’d be amazed if that were the case. Without a second CPU present I’d expect most BIOSes to not even allow you to toggle a setting saying you had one.


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