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Xennith
Imperial Logistics and Supply
Posted - 2009.04.07 13:53:00 - [181]
 

just for lulz, i suggest you look up my kill stats on battleclinic as the UK killboard is private. not logged in for a while and they're not great anyhow, but the one thing you should notice is that im a pretty dedicated ECM pilot and the falcon is my usual ship.

Im not jumping up and down demanding that the falcon be fixed because i cant kill them, im happy that the falcon is being buffed because they were dull to fly, and dull to fight, and massively overrepresented in fleet fights, which is an indication of being out of line.

as for solo / small gang fights, just because you fight in a blob doesnt mean everyone does, UK tend to operate in small gangs.

Esmenet
Gallente
Posted - 2009.04.07 13:59:00 - [182]
 

Edited by: Esmenet on 07/04/2009 14:02:34
Originally by: Xennith

Im not jumping up and down demanding that the falcon be fixed because i cant kill them, im happy that the falcon is being buffed because they were dull to fly, and dull to fight, and massively overrepresented in fleet fights, which is an indication of being out of line.


Yea 10 falcons in a 100 man fleet with the rest in hacs or BS. Rolling Eyes
Lets get rid of falcons so we can have all bs or hacs instead. Ewar has no business beeing in larger gangs right?

If you are looking for overrepresented ships the one you are looking for is called the Zealot.


Xennith
Imperial Logistics and Supply
Posted - 2009.04.07 14:00:00 - [183]
 

Edited by: Xennith on 07/04/2009 14:43:36
Originally by: maralt

3 weak multispec jammers with 9 str means they will fail a lot against anything apart from a T1 frig or cruiser.

Around 1 min of cap with the MWD running and no web on what you say yourself is the least manouverable recon?.

Im not sure what that fit could possably be used for or effective at tbh.




i did say it was a work in progress. with the new 30% strength bonus to ecm and the changes to the base strength 9 is an estimate, but against say a vagabond, its a 75% chance to jam with one jammer, so about 95% with three. against a 20 strength battleship its somewhere in the region of 75% per cycle for all three jammers. you can always get some racials on there, or fit an extra multispec or go more balls out for SDAs.

the cap stability is a bit of an issue, but i dont expect to have to use the mwd for any period of time, its there to get you into range, if you're in a gang with a rapier then once you're in range you stay in range. again, you could stick a cap booster on there if you wanted.

if the lack of web on a ship that is likely to be used in a gang with a rapier in it offends you so much, switch to rails.

i can see a lot of uses for this ship in roaming hostile space, ill wait until ive flown it on tq for a few weeks before making any sweeping announcements, but so far im pretty enthusiastic.

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2009.04.07 14:07:00 - [184]
 

Edited by: maralt on 07/04/2009 14:07:32
Originally by: Xennith
You are of course welcome to your own opinion. The fact that you think that its a laughable solo ship is where I disagree with you, for a start it doesnt fit missiles any more.


A solo ship with a chance based ewar system?, your kidding right??..



With damps you can orbit out side the damped ships lower lock range.

With longer range webs you can web it and hold it at a range it cannot hit you.

With TD's you can reduce its gun range or tracking to a point it cannot hit you.

These effects are GAURENTEED in their optimal and can be relied upon and used to plan tactics around.

Falcons fail jams a LOT NOW even with a full rack of racials fitted let alone with only 3 weak ass multi specs, and the first missed jam you get you are history.

Originally by: Xennith
In fleets the falcon was massively over represented, now if you want to jam at fleet ranges, you need to use a battleship. Same as sniping, if you want to snipe at 180km+, you need to use a battleship with all the disadvantages that entails.


1. In fleet battles the falcon was less that effective because it is impossable to designate multiple jams effectivly over large numbers.

2. Rubbish you can use a eagle, vulture, ferox, cerb.

Originally by: Xennith
For smaller (and IMO, especially 1v1) engagements, the falcon is now in line with the other recons and shaping up to be a hell of a lot of fun.


If you are talking about gang combat when you say smaller then you are totally correct it is now in line with the other recons as nobody uses the other recons in gang combat and nor will they use the falcon anymore.

Originally by: Xennith
the possibilities when combined with other force recons, a few black ops and stealthbombers are pant-wettingly good.


Do you only ever pvp in your head?.

Cade Morrigan
Caldari
Posted - 2009.04.07 14:07:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: General Coochie
That everyone fits ECCM also shows the falcon is OP. All ships in eve shouldn't have to fit to counter one ewar form

They don't, you only need one ship set up specifically to counter a falcon, use your head a little.

Not that ECM doesn't need attention, it does, but your whine is no tastier than the OP's.

That's as far as I got in this thread, too much crap to filter :D

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2009.04.07 14:16:00 - [186]
 

Originally by: Xennith


i did say it was a work in progress. with the new 30% strength bonus to ecm and the changes to the base strength 9 is an estimate, but against say a vagabond, its a 75% chance to jam with one jammer, so about 95% with three. against a 20 strength battleship its somewhere in the region of 75% per cycle for all three jammers. you can always get some racials on there, or fit an extra multispec or go more balls out for SDAs.


If it is going to get gimped cos of the need for tank on how many racials it can fit or have to use multi specs then firstly CCP should ditch racial jammers and give multi specs the same base stats as the racials had.

Originally by: Xennith
the cap stability is a bit of an issue, but i dont expect to have to use the mwd for any period of time, its there to get you into range, if you're in a gang with a rapier then once you're in range you stay in range. again, you could stick a cap booster on there if you wanted.


No web fitted on your "brawler and you do not expect to need your mwd much are you kidding?. And fitting a booster loses yet another ecm unit or tank.

Originally by: Xennith
i can see a lot of uses for this ship in roaming hostile space, ill wait until ive flown it on tq for a few weeks before making any sweeping announcements, but so far im pretty enthusiastic.


I can see no real uses for it as it stands unless it just along for the ride with a bunch of other recon ships looking to gank solo ships.

But even then its not a vital or important part of the gank gang as the damp web TD combo are much more relyable for that sort of work.

Xennith
Imperial Logistics and Supply
Posted - 2009.04.07 14:19:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: maralt

If you are talking about gang combat when you say smaller then you are totally correct it is now in line with the other recons as nobody uses the other recons in gang combat and nor will they use the falcon anymore.


well, i stand corrected, i best go tell everyone that we shouldnt use cloaky recons any more.

i cant be bothered to argue with you to be honest, ive said my piece, that i think the falcon has a great deal of potential with these new changes and that i am looking forward to enjoying flying it either solo or in small gangs. i leave you to your "sky is falling" thread about how recons are useless in fights and the only people who want the falcon changed are people who dont fly them.

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2009.04.07 14:39:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: maralt

If you are talking about gang combat when you say smaller then you are totally correct it is now in line with the other recons as nobody uses the other recons in gang combat and nor will they use the falcon anymore.


well, i stand corrected, i best go tell everyone that we shouldnt use cloaky recons any more.

i cant be bothered to argue with you to be honest, ive said my piece, that i think the falcon has a great deal of potential with these new changes and that i am looking forward to enjoying flying it either solo or in small gangs. i leave you to your "sky is falling" thread about how recons are useless in fights and the only people who want the falcon changed are people who dont fly them.


Seems to me that ccp could say jammers are being reduced to 1 str and only 1 mid is allowed on the falcon ect and the pro nerfits would preach how great it will be in pvp and how excited they are....Laughing And always preach the line about how ccp should "put it on TQ as is" knowing and hoping that ccp as per usual do not like readjusting things they have already changed...Rolling Eyes

Can you say transparant?.Laughing

So keep posting your "im excited" fail fits at least it give ppl who actually want good adjustments to the entire recon line and a proper balancing done amused...Cool

Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
Posted - 2009.04.07 15:12:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: Trader20
CCP gave into the whiners and nerfed the falcon. I can't wait till CCP nerfs the ships the whiners fly.


Those ships are called Polaris.

THEDON1
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2009.04.07 15:26:00 - [190]
 

good maybee people will learn to fight man o mano now like the good old days

Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
Posted - 2009.04.07 15:28:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: ry ry
**** falcons.


Get a new alt for future ecm whinings plz.

Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.04.07 19:18:00 - [192]
 

Originally by: Cautet


Bunch of math stuff.




I agree here. Given that your math is correct those results would be closer to being within the realm of reason. That said I am mearly passing on what someone told me about there use of a Blackbird vs multiple carriers on the Agony Unleashed class this past Saturday. Your numbers say one thing but his results are something diffrent. Remember this is the BB pilot saying this not a carrier pilot subject to ECM.

Originally by: Cautet

Why oh why would you jam from 100km for no reason? Do you jam at 100km aligned to celestials? If so please come to fountain. Are you sure you really have a falcon alt?




Aligned to objects but with bookmarks inbetween. Easier to make sure your aligned properly and still not catchable with a cloaked ship.

Jamming from 100k. Your still freakin safe. Why spend SP on skills for an alt that they don't need. Granted she does not fly the falcon much. I admit to a loathing of ECM on principle. Still, I don't think anyone has even locked her falcon yet. I know for sure no one has ever got within Warp Disrupt range... Why spend the SP to make her safer when she is already safe. Then again. at 200k she is nearly impossable to kill.... hay... mabe that is why CCP is nurfing the Falcons range!!

Truth is with these changes I may take her out in the Falcon more. She would not be stupidly overpowered and would also be at risk of losing her ship. Unlike most Eve players I like risk, without it the game is ridiculously boring. Down side is she has next to no Hybrid skills. Neutral More skill training. Damn you CCP!!! Wink

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2009.04.07 20:29:00 - [193]
 

hell sometimes I don't get whiners, both pro- and against- falcon.


here let's dumb down all this **** of thread/issue so that people might understand a bit what YOU all are saying:

Falcons overpoweredness started when CCP decided to up their jamming bonus from 15% to 20% and add another med slot (was it?).

YES, the falcon as it was BEFORE such a boost was rather passable. there was a reason to use the rook, since it could jam harder, and it had firepower to boot. Why CCP decided to boost the ship, it's beyond me tbh. Probably because they felt that it was inferior to the Arazu.

Also note that such thing happened back before the dual damp nerf. People were whining that everyone and their dog were fitting damps in their spare medslots, and decided to tone it down, cuz, well, it sucked (and CCP approached it somewhat correctly, altho the script thing was uneeded and left the arazu and lachesis eating dust. Gotta love sledgehammer approaches).

anyways continuing; CCP decided to boost the falcon and many voices were in disagreement.

now the issue here is also about ECM. In all honesty, people are dumb. We tend to approach all the issues with a standardized way, and if something goes out of the box, nearly all of the world has no qualms to put you down. If something that is out of the box actually works, then people will be screaming "OVERPOWERED OMG!", all because it ruins their one-sided, single-view of things. And that's what happens with ECM.
Hell ok, ECM does its job, bit too well, but were you all people back in the day when you actually needed a full rack of racials to be able to jam a single battleship?

No matter how bad chance-based mechanics are, you people might be happy to know that 4 years ago, the only "Ewar" of good use that existed was the web, and everyone and their mother were flying BS'es fitted with tachs and 1400's. Hell, the best fleet setup you could get back there was actually a 1400mm fitted apoc with full rack of CPR's and shield boosters on meds. And that's how the battlefield was. there was no space for anything smaller than a battleship, and battleships were the only thing that people flown back then (and we also had only like 4 classes of ships). Then CCP, in a wise manner decided to improve the battlefield, and much whinage was had, for 1400's weren't able to hit frigates mwd'ing at 5km orbit no longer, nor tachyons were good enough to fit on every ship, and Ewar was a good tactical option for the battlefield, altho ECM is a bit imperfect yet, but still, it works.

But, us humans are stupid, dumb, and lazy, and after those changes, people are striving for one and only thing:

blob it, tank it and gank it.




do you want a game like that?

do you want a game where there is no space for thinking it out?
do you people even find any kind of pleasure in taking a superior enemy, and out-think and out-manouver it?


or do you people are just a big bunch of asses that want to be stupid and whine instead of thinking it out?


If that's so, then welcome to the herd, for you are no more than a sheep, fool.



signed,

a very angry Grimpak.

Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
death from above..
Posted - 2009.04.07 23:52:00 - [194]
 

Damn Grimpak I that's along time ago... and you didn't change one bit. ;) 1400mm being used on Apocs and able to hit Frigs at closerange is about 5 years ago (it was changed 2004), and no I can remember the Scorpion was used A LOT. To be frank it was the ship of choice by all pirate corps I've encountered around Obe. It was always primary which says enough really.

The state of ECM at this time was good. As far as can I remember 5 Multispecs were enough to jam a ship and with a short cycle time it could hinder 3-4 BS or it could lock down 2 BS permanently. Imo it was MUCH better than what we have now. And as for other EW? Well only RSDs exsisted (at least in 2004) and longrange tactics weren't developed yet/not much used.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2009.04.08 07:53:00 - [195]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 08/04/2009 07:55:10
Originally by: Cohkka
Damn Grimpak I that's along time ago... and you didn't change one bit. ;) 1400mm being used on Apocs and able to hit Frigs at closerange is about 5 years ago (it was changed 2004), and no I can remember the Scorpion was used A LOT. To be frank it was the ship of choice by all pirate corps I've encountered around Obe. It was always primary which says enough really.

The state of ECM at this time was good. As far as can I remember 5 Multispecs were enough to jam a ship and with a short cycle time it could hinder 3-4 BS or it could lock down 2 BS permanently. Imo it was MUCH better than what we have now. And as for other EW? Well only RSDs exsisted (at least in 2004) and longrange tactics weren't developed yet/not much used.
and back then ewar didn't had range limitations too, thus the best way back then to eliminate a ecm ship back then was to use RSD's. Also, the reason why scorps were used by pirates that much, it wasn't just because of ECM, it was because it could fit a nasty tank, Ewar, and warp jamming (even today, no ship has 8 midslots).

Anyways, my opinion is: Falcons need a fix, but CCP is approaching the issue with a sledgehammer, like always.
There are better and subtler ways to fix the falcon, but instead CCP tries to cater to the whinage, while changing the rules yet again.

Nalena Arlath
Posted - 2009.04.08 08:24:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Anyways, my opinion is: Falcons need a fix, but CCP is approaching the issue with a sledgehammer, like always.
There are better and subtler ways to fix the falcon, but instead CCP tries to cater to the whinage, while changing the rules yet again.


As usual, it's CCP's SOP to use the sledgehammer approach.

Most experienced players however, are quite familiar with the "Adapt or die" approach to the changes in EVE over the years.

The only question that really remains is; Which ship is going to be the FOTM next?

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2009.04.08 08:55:00 - [197]
 

Originally by: Nalena Arlath
The only question that really remains is; Which ship is going to be the FOTM next?


ship? no ship, but a module: remote repairer.

that, or the zealotLaughing

Oddymandius
Caldari
Posted - 2009.04.08 09:19:00 - [198]
 

Edited by: Oddymandius on 08/04/2009 09:19:56
ITT: Falcons pilots whining about Falcon whiners whining about Falcons. Very Happy

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2009.04.08 09:20:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: Oddymandius
Edited by: Oddymandius on 08/04/2009 09:19:36
ITT: Falcons whining about Falcon whiners whining about Falcons. Very Happy
it's all BECAUSE OF FALCON.

Esmenet
Gallente
Posted - 2009.04.08 11:20:00 - [200]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Nalena Arlath
The only question that really remains is; Which ship is going to be the FOTM next?


ship? no ship, but a module: remote repairer.

that, or the zealotLaughing


The zealot(or amarr in general) already is. Its just going to be even more clear in time as more people finish training for it.

Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari
Sarum Industries
Posted - 2009.04.08 12:00:00 - [201]
 

What? the falcon range nerf was needed, we all now that... nothing to whine about.

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2009.04.08 14:11:00 - [202]
 



So is the ECM falcon build now on sissi fully adjusted for testing?.

With the falcon and max skills i can get on my main 14.2str with 74km optimal.

This is with 3 x SDA T2 units and 2 x PDR T1 rigs.

Seems rather short considering the ammount of mods used for range ect.

Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.04.08 17:37:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: maralt


So is the ECM falcon build now on sisi fully adjusted for testing?.

With the falcon and max skills i can get on my main 14.2str with 74km optimal.

This is with 3 x SDA T2 units and 2 x PDR T1 rigs.

Seems rather short considering the amount of mods used for range ect.


You fly in mid range combat to to have max effectiveness, just like every other recon. If you want to be safer you bull back and fight in falloff. Less effective at getting a jam though but, that is a trade off for being in a safer position. It's that old risk reward thing.

Have you tried a BB? If you don't need the cloak it seems like they would be the best. No need to fight in falloff because the loss of the ship (cost wise) is minimal. I have been unable to patch my SISI client to actually see the changes in person. ugh

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2009.04.08 17:56:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: Ashina Sito
Originally by: maralt


So is the ECM falcon build now on sisi fully adjusted for testing?.

With the falcon and max skills i can get on my main 14.2str with 74km optimal.

This is with 3 x SDA T2 units and 2 x PDR T1 rigs.

Seems rather short considering the amount of mods used for range ect.


You fly in mid range combat to to have max effectiveness, just like every other recon. If you want to be safer you bull back and fight in falloff. Less effective at getting a jam though but, that is a trade off for being in a safer position. It's that old risk reward thing.


ECM does not give MAX effect in optimal like the other recons effects though.

The other effects are gaurenteed in optimal and chance based in falloff, ECM is already chance based in its optimal.

Originally by: Ashina Sito
Have you tried a BB? If you don't need the cloak it seems like they would be the best. No need to fight in falloff because the loss of the ship (cost wise) is minimal.


Its not the price of the ship that is the issue with losing it, its the cost to your gangs effectivness that is the issue.

If this nerf means that the option for ECM is "suicide blackbirds" charging in locking and "maybe" getting a jam or two before getting popped then the nerf is well over done and needs rethinking.

Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.04.08 19:02:00 - [205]
 

Bah, hate reposting a bunch of quotes.

Your second point first. No one said "suicide blackbirds". If you afraid to risk a Falcon use a Blackbird. Less loss, less issue with risk. Any ship loss hurts a gang. That is kinda the point here. 200k Falcons were not at risk therefor were not lost. Forcing a warp out is not risk, it's the exact reason why nanos were unbalanced and CCP fixed them. Risk vs reward.


First point. ECM is chanced based, sure. People forget it is still the best Ewar to use in any situation. Only ECM can put multiple targets out of a fight.

Minnies can't stop incoming damage they can only increase your gangs damage.

Gallente Can't damp a BS sized target to lower then most combat ranges using all there damps on one target. 20k range for a BS, wooptie frieakin doo.

Amarr do get cap warfare. That has ready counters that are on nearly every ship and there are ship types that function with little to no cap.

With 3 types of Ewar the player effected can use their player skill to counter the effect of the Ewar. Only one time removes any ability of the player to do anything to counter it. That is why ECM is the best choice in any situation.


I have an Arazu and worry about losing it every time it is in combat. I have a falcon and don't even think twice about using it since at the 100k that pilot is able to operate at it's still safe. With that safety gone I will mothball my Falcon alt, good riddance. Time to get her training for a Basilisk before those are nurfed. Get ahead of the wave and exploit imbalance before it's corrected. That is the PvP MMo wave. Don't be FTOM, create the FOTM. ugh

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2009.04.08 19:12:00 - [206]
 



Originally by: Ashina Sito
With that safety gone I will mothball my Falcon alt, good riddance.


No real point at responding to the rest cos its the standard "i hate getting jammed" justifications for this butchery of another recon/non gank tank ship, anyway the above comment pretty much sums up all that is wrong with this nerf and others.

Butchering anything and everything that does its job is such a poor and lazy way of dealing with whiney nerf hounds.

They should be redesigning or buffing other systems, or even making additions to the game and looking at the big picture instead of making ships so sh*te they get "mothballed".

They are not fixing anything, they are just sticking another recon on the gang v gang combat scrap heap.

Freaky Reaky
Posted - 2009.04.08 19:26:00 - [207]
 

OMFG!!! Falcons have to engage under 150km!!!! TO THE STREETS!!!!!!!!!

Polinus
Caldari
Emptiness.
Posted - 2009.04.08 19:57:00 - [208]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Nalena Arlath
The only question that really remains is; Which ship is going to be the FOTM next?


ship? no ship, but a module: remote repairer.

that, or the zealotLaughing


CCp already pointed they will boost RR in fact. They said they are thinkign on increasign sub capital RR range.

Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.04.08 20:14:00 - [209]
 

Edited by: Ashina Sito on 08/04/2009 20:20:16
Originally by: maralt


Butchering anything and everything that does its job is such a poor and lazy way of dealing with whiney nerf hounds.




Falcon does it's job without risk. That is the problem. It is a Lazy ship for lazy people. Hence the reason why I have a Falcon ALT. I can 2 box and still get good performance and safety.

Whiney nerf hounds? All I am doing is agreeing with putting the falcon at risk when it is used. If you wanted to see whining I would go on about how overpowered ECM is in general or how broken ECCM is. I am instead stating that ships should be at risk when used. No risk no reward. Why is that a hard thing to understand? As I said I put my Arazu at risk every time it goes out in combat but my Falcon is safe. I have spare Arazu's on hand and fitted to cover losses. Do you know how many Falcons I have, 1. No need for more because you don;t lose them.

Power without risk is broken game play. These changes will give Falcons more power but at greater risk. The whines are coming from players that want performance without having a downside.


Edit:

Originally by: maralt


They should be redesigning or buffing other systems, or even making additions to the game and looking at the big picture instead of making ships so sh*te they get "mothballed".



I did not say Falcons will be mothballed. I said My Falcon alt will be mothballed. I will not be able to 2 box her in safety. I will lose ships if she fights in closer ranges because I will be on another account, in the same fight. This change removes the viability of the AFK Falcon at 200k and forces people to be at the helm of the ship to keep form losing it. Still could Alt away on a cheap throw away BB if you want I suppose.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2009.04.08 20:21:00 - [210]
 

Originally by: Polinus
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Nalena Arlath
The only question that really remains is; Which ship is going to be the FOTM next?


ship? no ship, but a module: remote repairer.

that, or the zealotLaughing


CCp already pointed they will boost RR in fact. They said they are thinkign on increasign sub capital RR range.


and what will people say when whiners come here and scream "OMG RR FLEETS ARE UNVINCEABLE!!1one"?Laughing

Originally by: Ashina Sito
Originally by: maralt


Butchering anything and everything that does its job is such a poor and lazy way of dealing with whiney nerf hounds.




Falcon does it's job without risk. That is the problem. It is a Lazy ship for lazy people. Hence the reason why I have a Falcon ALT. I can 2 box and still get good performance and safety.

Whiney nerf hounds? All I am doing is agreeing with putting the falcon at risk when it is used. If you wanted to see whining I would go on about how overpowered ECM is in general or how broken ECCM is. I am instead stating that ships should be at risk when used. No risk no reward. Why is that a hard thing to understand? As I said I put my Arazu at risk every time it goes out in combat but my Falcon is safe. I have spare Arazu's on hand and fitted to cover losses. Do you know how many Falcons I have, 1. No need for more because you don;t lose them.

Power without risk is broken game play. These changes will give Falcons more power but at greater risk. The whines are coming from players that want performance without having a downside.


then I'll ask you this, since you seem to be well versed with falcons:

wouldn't replacing the range bonus by a falloff bonus be enough?

and now that I think of it, decreasing the 20% ECM strength bonus to 15% aswell?


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