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Drahomi'r Bozi'dar
Posted - 2009.06.09 15:48:00 - [1681]
 

There are still people out there who think the new bombers arnt good?
Such ignorance is hard to believe.
Bomber gangs can kill BS in seconds.
I saw bomber gangs kill freighters + escort on there own POS,without having mutch loses,i saw them melt a rorqual down to struckt in less than a minute.
I saw them killing 25 or more BS in less than 2 seconds with bombs.
Right now bomber gangs are the most dangerous frig sized gangs ever in eve.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If your going to lie, atleast try to make it sound more believable


And once again, bombs are only able to be used in 0.0

place1
Amarr
Orion Ore Industries
Posted - 2009.06.10 02:20:00 - [1682]
 

Originally by: Drahomi'r Bozi'dar
By used right, you mean be in an absurdly specialized fleet. If a ship could do it's job, it wouldn't need other types along for the ride and at most be used in groups of the same craft. This whole Apocrypha switching things around just looks sloppy in all honestly...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I agree. I think cruise missile bonuses could be changed a bit to do more vs battleships and such but do around the same for smaller ships. Torps are unguided which i think is just plain dumb, which is why a ship is moving at a decent speed the torp damage just drops horridly. If asks, about decent speed, then anything over 250 m/s.
Tested a BS with an after burner on and at 300 m/s it dropped torp damage more than half of what it was hitting for. Now a BC or a cruiser will have the go juice and torps already suffer from the size penalty of the ship so its even worse for them.
There needs to be a change to not have it lose so much damage when a ships moving.
Dont say a TP, cause it doesnt help that much.



Originally by: place1
Edited by: place1 on 02/05/2009 15:50:06
To all that think the new SB is useless here are some numbers off sisi

Pilot Skill
Missile Bombardment 4
Missile Projection 3
Torpedoes 1
Warhead Upgrades 3
Covert ops 4
1 Ballistic Control T2
Hydraulic Bay Thruster I
Rocket Fuel Cach Partition I
T1 Torp's
Torp Rang 64987M
Max Flight Time 14.49s

Lots of room for improvment here.


Ship Maelstrom
0% Resistance
Speed.............................0TP..............................1TP..............................2TP..............................3TP
0....................................2644.5..........................2644.5..........................2644.5..........................2644.5
Norm 117........................2644.5..........................2644.5..........................2644.5..........................2644.5
AB 285............................1265.6..........................1620.2..........................2008.8..........................2338.5
MWD 715.........................2644.5..........................2644.5..........................2644.5..........................2644.5

56% Resistance
0....................................1190.0..........................1190.0..........................1190.0..........................1190.0
AB 285.............................568.7..........................728.4............................906.5............................1052.3

77% Resistance
0....................................621.2...........................621.2...........................621.2...........................621.2
AB 285.............................296.9..........................380.3............................473.4............................549.2

84% Resistance
0....................................426.2...........................426.2...........................426.2...........................426.2
AB 285.............................203.9..........................261.0............................324.8............................375.6



As you can see damage is good as long as the resistance is not very high and the only way to reduice the damage taken by the battle ship is with a AB and even then 2-3 Target Painters will bring the damage back close to max.
The use of a MWD (because of sig bloom) will cause you to take full damage as if you were not even moveing regardless of TP or not.
With better skills the damage will increase even more as will range.

Edit
It is posible with max skills to fit a Purifier for range using T1 Torps of 69KM with a volley damage of 4105 at 0% resistance, Cal Navy Torps a volley of 4717 damage. T2 rage can get a range of 62KM with a volley of 5255 all at 0% resistance.
Very high damage output for a Frig.

This ship is far from useless.

666Devious
Sinister Elite
Raining Doom
Posted - 2009.06.10 12:51:00 - [1683]
 

With all the controversy it seems that people still dont know what the role of this ship is.

I hear its not a solo pwn mobile, its a high dps boat, its close range, its long range.

Well noticing how things have been going since the s/b has been out for a while. It seems only to me that there is even more confusion then there was before. I have seen more s/b's with points then I have seen interceptors after ccp stated many times this is not a solo ship.

Random bomber killed that I found

I also seen people claiming to solo with these bombers. Wonder how the target didn't warp off?

10 Solo b/s kills

Also I noticed that the answer for dps is target painters.

MWD ishtar with 3 target painters (39 dps malediction > Very high skilled S/B pilot. same amount of time on the kill!

What I am getting at is that, as I have stated before, the s/b had a role. Anti-falcon, anti-gate camp, Long range sniper. Now the ship performs worse then it has in the past. If only we could see how many have been lost I think this debate would end.

Old bomber > New bomber
Loser > Macro ratters

achoura
Posted - 2009.06.10 15:41:00 - [1684]
 

Edited by: achoura on 10/06/2009 15:43:35
Edited by: achoura on 10/06/2009 15:41:48
What debate?

It is a frigate capable of dealing /bc/bs damage at long range. In fact using t1 rigs and tii fitting it can reach ~480 dps at 120km (which part of that range is not sniping for a frigate?), this is not debateable, this is a simple facts.

True, i used to be able to reach 190km, but with significantly less damage, loosing a launcher if i fit bombs and no covert cloak. Also tell me this. If this ship is indeed inferior to its predecessor, why then is it being used more widely and regularly than it's predecessor (designed when eve was a very different place) ever was?

Edit: anti-gatecamp is precisely what these ships are being used for all across new eden ugh

Thud
Caldari
Mad-Warping-Maniacs
Posted - 2009.06.10 23:24:00 - [1685]
 

Originally by: Drahomi'r Bozi'dar

If your going to lie, atleast try to make it sound more believable


And once again, bombs are only able to be used in 0.0

What am i lieng about,if i may ask?

And,Titans can only DD in 0.0 too,does that make it underpowert?
Even if bombs are limited to 0.0,the bomber is very strong with torpedos alone,with bombs as well it is just great.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2009.06.10 23:30:00 - [1686]
 

Well bombers atm are as fun to fly as ceptors are. So, nuff said CCP did great job on them. Tho i still would like to see some special "anti-capital ship" ship.

Reisenkaze
Posted - 2009.07.20 20:48:00 - [1687]
 

Well, a few months ago I went on about how the ship seemed too specialized in its role and wasn't fully able to do it's job. I've spent a large amount of time flying the new set up and I must say I'm liking it a great deal. I went back and read some of the more recent posts and to those of you who don't like it I'm fairly sure aren't flying it properly. I'll try to put this as best I can but I apologize if I sound like a nerd to nerds as nerds do to normal people.
First off, if you don't like the SB but never fit a bomber launcher on it... I can't even finish my statement because people like that shouldn't even fly it period. Secondly, bombs are your main form of DPS, torps are secondary and back up for when you're out of bombs, the little ships can't carry too many. Third, the covert ops cloak is your life line and main form of defense.
Now then on to flying it. If you're a Trekkie or saw Star Trek III: The Search for Spock or have any idea of what a Klingon Bird of Prey does, the movie depicts exactly how stealth and massive bombardment work together. What happened was the U.S.S. Grissom was orbiting a new planet, "Genesis", and the Klingons show up in their B.o.P. cloaked. Now, there's no Local Channel so the crew of the Grissom has no idea they were there. Klingons decloak, fire their weapons, and destroy the Grissom in a single volley, cloaking again after its destruction. That's how you fly the SB. Warp in, decloak, drop the eggs and fire the torps. You do need a bit of a support fleet. I've flown with atleast 2 or 3 tackle and ECM birds, but after the bombs are fired, the tacklers warp out or move away from the target before the bombs detonate. How your fleet is set up is entirely up to you, just make it effective.
I'd like to apologize to the Dev Team for my inaccurate conclusions in the months prior. We have come to terms.

Ilukas
Posted - 2009.08.04 19:50:00 - [1688]
 

I am new player,I feel what makes a good mmo is creating a style of your own working with it tweaking it to fit what you want to do, play your way.eve has such a big learning curve soo many ways possibilities create offensive attack yet to change a way or style completely because players cry that its to strong or its not fair think its ccp way of babying players. First time i heard about eve my friend told me "Eve is ruthless its a game of endless possibilities on ONE SERVER" THOUGHT THE SAME but now I don't like any other m.m.o. really we baby the weak and let the strong get nerfed for the weak can t catch up. I feel that the new video they just made Butterfly effect is a wrong representation of eve Should have been crybaby effect If you cry long enough the sandbox will change to where you wont get sand in your eyes....truth is i don't know fraction about eve but what i do know when you change a style or eliminate one, show a weak hand to players who earned of years of trail and error of combat to play eve one way that is their way not the way ccp has chosen for them. Ilukas

Ilukas
Posted - 2009.08.04 20:11:00 - [1689]
 

I am new player,I feel what makes a good mmo is creating a style of your own working with it tweaking it to fit what you want to do, play your way.eve has such a big learning curve soo many ways possibilities create offensive attack yet to change a way or style completely because players cry that its to strong or its not fair think its ccp way of babying players. First time i heard about eve my friend told me "Eve is ruthless its a game of endless possibilities on ONE SERVER" THOUGHT THE SAME but now I don't like any other m.m.o. really we baby the weak and let the strong get nerfed for the weak can t catch up. I feel that the new video they just made Butterfly effect is a wrong representation of eve Should have been crybaby effect If you cry long enough the sandbox will change to where you wont get sand in your eyes....truth is i don't know fraction about eve but what i do know when you change a style or eliminate one, show a weak hand to players who earned of years of trail and error of combat to play eve one way that is their way not the way ccp has chosen for them. Ilukas

Regat Kozovv
Caldari
Alcothology
Posted - 2009.08.04 23:00:00 - [1690]
 

Originally by: Ilukas
I am new player,I feel what makes a good mmo is creating a style of your own working with it tweaking it to fit what you want to do, play your way.eve has such a big learning curve soo many ways possibilities create offensive attack yet to change a way or style completely because players cry that its to strong or its not fair think its ccp way of babying players. First time i heard about eve my friend told me "Eve is ruthless its a game of endless possibilities on ONE SERVER" THOUGHT THE SAME but now I don't like any other m.m.o. really we baby the weak and let the strong get nerfed for the weak can t catch up. I feel that the new video they just made Butterfly effect is a wrong representation of eve Should have been crybaby effect If you cry long enough the sandbox will change to where you wont get sand in your eyes....truth is i don't know fraction about eve but what i do know when you change a style or eliminate one, show a weak hand to players who earned of years of trail and error of combat to play eve one way that is their way not the way ccp has chosen for them. Ilukas


My eyes! ugh

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2009.08.04 23:18:00 - [1691]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Well bombers atm are as fun to fly as ceptors are. So, nuff said CCP did great job on them. Tho i still would like to see some special "anti-capital ship" ship.


they just need to add the promissed option to use a non covert cloak but with speed bonus and no recloak fixed delay. For variation of tactics.

Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Frontier Venture
Posted - 2009.08.05 17:47:00 - [1692]
 

Originally by: Ilukas
I am new player,I feel what makes a good mmo is creating a style of your own working with it tweaking it to fit what you want to do, play your way.eve has such a big learning curve soo many ways possibilities create offensive attack yet to change a way or style completely because players cry that its to strong or its not fair think its ccp way of babying players. First time i heard about eve my friend told me "Eve is ruthless its a game of endless possibilities on ONE SERVER" THOUGHT THE SAME but now I don't like any other m.m.o. really we baby the weak and let the strong get nerfed for the weak can t catch up. I feel that the new video they just made Butterfly effect is a wrong representation of eve Should have been crybaby effect If you cry long enough the sandbox will change to where you wont get sand in your eyes....truth is i don't know fraction about eve but what i do know when you change a style or eliminate one, show a weak hand to players who earned of years of trail and error of combat to play eve one way that is their way not the way ccp has chosen for them. Ilukas


Umm.....what?

--Isaac

Ilukas
Posted - 2009.08.05 20:36:00 - [1693]
 

Ifeel dev team changed the way some players play and future players to come how they play, there some of us who love the solo covert ops way, not everyone wants be apart of a corp and changing the stealth bomber to torpedo to a slow and dumb missile to attack on bigger slower ships changes how i want to play. Here is stupid question i like to give the dev team.Why do developers want take away options,why couldn't they use the word ""ADD"".Add another ship to the arsenal, with there torpedoes add some other fancy abilities keep everyone happy. I love the idea having cruise missiles on my Nemesis. being stealth killer, i want to be, this might improve how some players play but it doesn't improve how I want to play.Funny, you take options away from players as in fitting equipment or ships this suppose to improve how I play,no you changed how i play,the dev team got the word improve confused with change. dev team let me have a choice to be a torpedo assault player or cruise missile player,last time i checked more options you have better the adventure Ilukas

Ishihiro tanaka
Amarr
NED-Clan
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.08.06 11:22:00 - [1694]
 

Originally by: Ilukas
Ifeel dev team changed the way some players play and future players to come how they play, there some of us who love the solo covert ops way, not everyone wants be apart of a corp and changing the stealth bomber to torpedo to a slow and dumb missile to attack on bigger slower ships changes how i want to play. Here is stupid question i like to give the dev team.Why do developers want take away options,why couldn't they use the word ""ADD"".Add another ship to the arsenal, with there torpedoes add some other fancy abilities keep everyone happy. I love the idea having cruise missiles on my Nemesis. being stealth killer, i want to be, this might improve how some players play but it doesn't improve how I want to play.Funny, you take options away from players as in fitting equipment or ships this suppose to improve how I play,no you changed how i play,the dev team got the word improve confused with change. dev team let me have a choice to be a torpedo assault player or cruise missile player,last time i checked more options you have better the adventure Ilukas


First off, the ENTER key is your friend, please don't refrain from using it.
Secondly, CCP changes things which they think have the biggest impact on the player base or mostly what the majority asks for. They cannot (and will not) keep changing the game to every players personal liking.

If you do want to choose between torps and cruises, a SB is capable of handling cruise missiles just like before. Other than that, there are other classes of ships capable of launching cruise missiles better than a SB, you can fit a cloak if you like, but you cannot warp cloaked.

Ilukas
Posted - 2009.08.06 19:40:00 - [1695]
 

Edited by: Ilukas on 06/08/2009 19:54:01

All I'm saying don't fix whats not broken,plus the reason we have forums for we can express our opinions our thoughts on situations like this. you can't put cruise missiles on your Sb if i could i wouldn't be on this forum silly man

xavier69
Gallente
Stark Enterprises LLC
Posted - 2009.08.07 02:18:00 - [1696]
 

Edited by: xavier69 on 07/08/2009 02:27:15
1. I was used to using my stealth bomber with cruise missiles, granted they where worthless solo.
2. You gave them Torpedoes and they are still worthless solo.
3. Giving them Torpedoes you gimped the range, I went from like 175km range to 65km max well with in range of getting shot back or drone ganked = LESS EFFCTIVE.

I really didnít see this as an upgrade. The only positive thing I got out of it was the use of the covert opts cloak, which they should have had since day 1.

So recap,

Before your changes

Useless solo, good in teams great range.

After your changes

Useless solo, great in teams, Horrible range that will get you killed a lot faster before it was reasonable range that you could damp your prey. Now its blow them up before they blow you up or sick drones on you. Over all increased damage did not outweigh the severely GIMPED range.

So over all you made them do Allot More damage but Still Remain ALOT LESS effective. I have been in fights 5 Stealth bombers Vs 5 Battleships before and won, I donít see that ever happening after these changes. The range totally nerfed the only way a stealth bomber survives and thatís though sensor damps.

Lilan Kahn
Amarr
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2009.08.07 04:24:00 - [1697]
 

stealth bombers suxor!

*wanders off to pat 200 solo kills in a manticor*

Reisenkaze
Posted - 2009.08.17 17:46:00 - [1698]
 

Originally by: xavier69
Edited by: xavier69 on 07/08/2009 02:27:15
1. I was used to using my stealth bomber with cruise missiles, granted they where worthless solo.
2. You gave them Torpedoes and they are still worthless solo.
3. Giving them Torpedoes you gimped the range, I went from like 175km range to 65km max well with in range of getting shot back or drone ganked = LESS EFFCTIVE.

I really didnít see this as an upgrade. The only positive thing I got out of it was the use of the covert opts cloak, which they should have had since day 1.

So recap,

Before your changes

Useless solo, good in teams great range.

After your changes

Useless solo, great in teams, Horrible range that will get you killed a lot faster before it was reasonable range that you could damp your prey. Now its blow them up before they blow you up or sick drones on you. Over all increased damage did not outweigh the severely GIMPED range.

So over all you made them do Allot More damage but Still Remain ALOT LESS effective. I have been in fights 5 Stealth bombers Vs 5 Battleships before and won, I donít see that ever happening after these changes. The range totally nerfed the only way a stealth bomber survives and thatís though sensor damps.



I think you should download Mozilla Firefox because your random typos are driving my CDO nuts (OCD in alphabetical order... as it should be...)

First of if you or anyone else thinks that the torpedoes are the main form of damage for the bomber, you're out of your damn mind. A bomber without bombs is basically taking a bite out of a sandwich and realizing there's nothing but bread. Bombs are your primary weapon, and though expensive, they're not as expensive as a BB and any thing else unlucky enough to be in the blast radius. Never mind the void bomb which instantly kills the cap of cruisers and smaller ships meaning they don't even have the cap to warp out let alone activate certain modules. Sure it's not useful to have them in high sec, but can you imagine the hell Jita would be with that kinda crap, as if the suicide ganking wasn't bad enough? The way I see it, those who dislike the new bomber usually just look at it from a distance and say it's crap rather than fly it and learn how to use the bloody thing for what it was meant to do: uncloak, fire bombs and torpedoes, cloak again, rinse and repeat. Which once you've gotten good at it means all the target has time for is right-click, go down menu, and select "Poo Pants".


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