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Saggy Glands
Amalgamated Transport And Trade
Posted - 2009.04.05 03:59:00 - [781]
 

Originally by: Merin Ryskin
PS: anyone who wants the non-covert cloaks back is utterly insane. Current bombers are a waste of database space, due in large part to the lack of the covert ops cloak. Please note that if the covops cloak is removed because of you people whining about it, you should expect to be hunted down and griefed out of the game by those of us who are eagerly waiting for our new covert pwnmobiles.


That's silly. Anyone who has actually flown a stealth bomber knows that cloak + speed > cloak + slow + 30 second delay. I think i'll join in on the falcon thread, talking about how great the changes are even though I've never flown the boat. Then I can be like you too.

Rigsta
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
Posted - 2009.04.05 04:35:00 - [782]
 

Edited by: Rigsta on 05/04/2009 04:36:25
I was very against this to begin with, but if the changes to bombs go through on top of the changes to the ship itself, this could be very good. No more frigate popping, but I think a few target painters could make a cruiser hurt.


EDIT: It's 15 seconds now, not 30. Look for the blue borders on each page.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2009.04.05 04:42:00 - [783]
 

Originally by: Saggy Glands
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
PS: anyone who wants the non-covert cloaks back is utterly insane. Current bombers are a waste of database space, due in large part to the lack of the covert ops cloak. Please note that if the covops cloak is removed because of you people whining about it, you should expect to be hunted down and griefed out of the game by those of us who are eagerly waiting for our new covert pwnmobiles.


That's silly. Anyone who has actually flown a stealth bomber knows that cloak + speed > cloak + slow + 30 second delay. I think i'll join in on the falcon thread, talking about how great the changes are even though I've never flown the boat. Then I can be like you too.


Sorry, but I have flown stealth bombers. And then I sold mine and bought a ship that doesn't suck.

And BTW: moving around under cloak once you've decloaked and fired is pointless. Everyone knows you're there, the only thing you accomplish is reducing your dps.

Andrea Griffin
Posted - 2009.04.05 04:52:00 - [784]
 

Edited by: Andrea Griffin on 05/04/2009 05:01:38
I spent some time flying the Manticore on the test server the past two nights. Some observations:

1. The increased PG/CPU is a godsend. A CPU module is no longer necessary for a basic fit (3x Siege, Cloak, BCUs, some EWar). However, I still don't have enough to do anything useful with that 5th high slot - and I'm not sure what I would put in there anyways. A scan probe launcher maybe; I can't see fitting a turret, nos, neut, or smart bomb with any meaningful effect, given the ship's role. Maybe a salvager to salvage the other dead bombers?

Caveat: The Purifier could use a bit more CPU.

2. Damage against large ships is great, even with my mediocre missile skills. Works as advertised. Not enough to work solo, but that isn't what this ship is designed for, so that's okay. Get 4 or 5 of these things together and it's a whole other story. Bomber gangs are going to be fun!

3. Signature radius needs to be reduced, or cloaking delay reduced. It was too easy for people to lock on. This can be mitigated on a target by target basis with scan resolution sensor damps (which I have found to be more effective now than targeting range), but in a multi-target environment, not so much. Maybe a bomber-specific module to decrease signature radius? That would be awesome.

4. Drones are death. Really, the only thing a battleship needs to do in order to fend off a bomber attack is launch some light drones, then let them auto-aggro when the bomber fires. The bomber can't cloak, has no ability to fend off the drones, and has no tanking ability (I may try a shield booster at some point, but it really is futile). The only defense you have at this point is to run away or kill the target within a few seconds.

Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar
Noonday Sun Corp
Posted - 2009.04.05 05:00:00 - [785]
 

Originally by: Sigras
Edited by: Sigras on 04/04/2009 21:15:21
Originally by: Lyvanna Kitaen
I generally just used it to clear out hoards of NPC frigs in low-end exploration sites. The anti-small ship role is now dead. Crying or Very sad I can still do the job with an AF or a Dessie, but not nearly as fast.


i think thats kinda the point, these ships were never intended to be anti frigate ships; just look at the way bombs work, they're most effective against battleships, and the entire stealth bomber mechanic seems geared toward punishing people who didnt bring anti frigate support.

I do have a question though. if bombs dont travel anywhere, why do they have a velocity? And more importantly, who designed these death traps anyway?

I mean what moron engineer at Duvolle Laboratories said "Lets design a weapon where proper use places me in the blast radius of my own weapon!"?


The old style SB was excellent against NPC frigs. That's pretty much what it was best at. I don't run around in 0.0, so I've never launched a bomb and don't care if I ever do.

For exploration site work, I don't even fit a cloak since gas clouds normally keep you from cloaking. It was all about the alpha from 3 cruises popping NPC's in one volley. You could clear a room from long range as fast as you could cycle through targets.

CCP seems determined to pigeonhole these ships into a role that they can't really fill and not allowing other, novel uses.

Valkorsia
Caldari
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.04.05 05:09:00 - [786]
 

Torps on a ship with 1100-1200 hit points is completely ******ed. Just sayin'.

lol @ Anti-BS.Rolling Eyes

Try playing your game CCP, you might learn something.

Saggy Glands
Amalgamated Transport And Trade
Posted - 2009.04.05 06:33:00 - [787]
 

Originally by: Merin Ryskin

Sorry, but I have flown stealth bombers. And then I sold mine and bought a ship that doesn't suck.



What, like your faction fitted nighthawk you lost to two ships in lowsec? Fly this new stealth bomber and you soon won't be able to afford a replacement nighthawk.

And there's no doubt that the SB was a broken boat. However it simply needed a bonus to explosion velocity (and maybe a small fitting adjustment) and it would have been a ship worth flying.

Originally by: Merin Ryskin

And BTW: moving around under cloak once you've decloaked and fired is pointless. Everyone knows you're there, the only thing you accomplish is reducing your dps.


You statements just show you have as much experience as CCP Colitis flying the stealth bomber. Dps has nothing to do with the stealth bomber. It's all about it's alpha strike. As well, using the cloaked speed was critical to basic stealth bomber tactics.

a) Getting into position. Fire mwd, cloak then you're soon at range from the engagement. Right where the SB needed to be. It'll be impossible to maneuver properly with the new bomber. I suppose you want that fleet to go make coffee while you slowboat around their fleet to get broadside to a battleship? Hey guys there's 7 red in local but nothing on scanner. Let's just sit here for 10 minutes!

b) Getting away. Didn't matter how fast that vaga or cepter was, it was awfully difficult for them to burn out and catch you when you simply cloaked and moved (very quickly) tangentially. Worse case scenario you pull the insta-warp trick. Let's see you get away in the new failboat.

A covops cloak without the speed bonus is a serious nurf to this boat. Ohh we have a covops cloak so we can pick and choose who to fight. Who's that going to be? Hmm there's a T1 frigate with that battleship. Let's not. You think that this battleship might have drones? Hmm, let's not.

Ruban Spangler
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2009.04.05 06:54:00 - [788]
 

Edited by: Ruban Spangler on 05/04/2009 12:46:10
Please let us use cruise or torps. If the bonuses would pour too much winsause over a cruise bomber then let us have two types, Stealth Bomber (Cruise) and Heavy Stealth Bomber (Torps)

Toyo Italari
Posted - 2009.04.05 06:59:00 - [789]
 

Originally by: Merin Ryskin


And BTW: moving around under cloak once you've decloaked and fired is pointless. Everyone knows you're there, the only thing you accomplish is reducing your dps.


Originally by: Toyo Italari


This is why the blink tactic was so successful. It was vulnerable to drones and fast tackle, but most ships would be unable to attain a lock before cloaking. Being able to fire a volley and recloak pretty much immediately helped safety at close ranges tremendously (thanks to the person who took the time to test the ranges of the tactic). Merin's considerably noisy view that cloaking removed all your DPS from the fight is incorrect: provided you decloak just before your weapon's cycle is up and, with sensor boosters (scan res), reacquiring your own lock just in time to fire the next volley.



The only time I've reduced my DPS when cloaking was the first two days I was in my Hound. It didn't take much to learn the timing.

It's like a mini-ECM burst. Anyone in the process of targeting now has to start over the next time you decloak. If you're good, they'll still only have 5 seconds to lock you, making non-sensor boosted cruisers and above relatively safe to fly against in close quarters. Best used in a gang with better tankers, so that the drones get deployed and attack the first person to aggro.. Which isn't you if you pay attention to what you're doing.

You found them useless; others found innovative techniques that made them far more useful while only adding small amount of risk compared to being at range. Far lower delay for missiles to hit compared to long range makes their alpha and DPS significant at the start rather than 20 seconds later, and allowed them to remain cloaked for at least 50% of the battle.

Personally, I'm sad that the blink technique appears to no longer be an option. However, I can adapt. Clearly you couldn't.

Max Hardcase
The Scope
Posted - 2009.04.05 07:28:00 - [790]
 

Edited by: Max Hardcase on 05/04/2009 07:28:52
Some random things that come to mind:
-RSD/scan res is less viable now with the increased scan res on most ships.
-Even full halo set with boosters leaves you very vulnerable.
-Drones are death.
-Bomb launcher still takes a launcher slot.
-Cruise launchers with explosion V bonus would have been hot.


Allen Ramses
Caldari
Zombicidal Mania
Posted - 2009.04.05 07:29:00 - [791]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis

Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus:
40% bonus to cloaked velocity per level. (double speed with imp. cloak)
20% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level. (Doubled range, good for the role)

Covert Ops Skill Bonus:
7.5% bonus to bomb and torpedo thermal damage per level (+75% damage is too much)
7.5% reduction in bomb and torpedo explosion radius per level (270m expl rad. Good vs BCs, not so good against cruisers and frigs)

Role Bonus:
-99.5% reduction in Siege Missile Launcher powergrid needs
-99% reduction in Bomb Launcher CPU use
-100% targeting delay after decloaking
-25% penalty to Siege Missile Launcher rate of fire
-50% bonus to torpedo damage
How does this look? Can't use a CovOps cloak, but fits the role MUCH better, IMO.

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2009.04.05 07:59:00 - [792]
 

any change on how the bomb deploying works?

Alxea
Posted - 2009.04.05 09:18:00 - [793]
 

A response to all who have posted even more nerfed specs on stealth bombers. CCP will set their vision in stone. A Anti-BS frigate.

Totally useless specs people have been putting up. Apperently you people beleave everybody has level 5 in cov ops and maxed missile skills. 100% damage was good. 75% was ok. What are you trying to do make it tickle a BS with your ideas of pre 50% damage bonuses or even 200DPS boats maybe 100DPS with that last one? lol WIth 75% they do about 500 DPS. With 5 glass cannons it takes about 1 min to kill a BS in witch time all your SB's will be dead to light drones/neuts/web/specially BS's with skilled pilots in gunnery or missiles if you have no ewar on those SB's. BS's hurt when your webbed to nothing, you will pop in 5 secs if you solo in these agenst the wrong pilot. Rolling Eyes

What your wanting to turn a SB into is a torp boat that does rocket damage. 3 torps are useless agenst any ship that can't even do more then 200 DPS with your specs. A good AF pilot does 300 DPS. (Is One) But luckally CCP doesn't listen to people so they will make what works for them and everybody. Not will specially work for you because you fear a frig that can do more then 500 DPS and uncloak right on top of you wile your mining or hauling or in some weak ratting ship with no pvp fitting on it. This will be the new anti-noob ships too, time to clean up low sec and 0.0. Cheap, high DPS, true stealth. If you can't warp wile cloaked how is it stealth when people saw you warp right in their area. LOL But theres always the recon option. I love those sneaky things. Black ops will be even better with the cov ops cloak. The unseen enemy = more fear.

This is how CCP dreamed of SB's to be. Fear boats, tho they are suisidle boats to fly. If you do it right, the surprise of a frig decloaking right ontop of you and insta poping your little mining ship will be funny. They will be deadly in fleets of 10 to BS's as they are. Its all about stratagy and ewar to the max. But they can easly die really fast with a properly equipped BS. But luckally nobody flys anti frig BS's decked out with rows of eccm countermesures and 3x/4x sensor boosters. ROFL LMAO

This was aimed at every bonus posted by others who thought a frig SB was overpowered. I bet you don't like recons eather as well huh you guys. Kind of the idea. Your not sipose to know they are there and your not sipose to expect them to hit you when you least expect it.

Everybody complains too much. They are sipose to be painful but they are far from win buttons. They die extremly epically fast to ceptors and AF's beleave me, been there done that.

You think these ships are god ships? Have you been smart bombed in one? LOL Then you never flown them before. Specally dead face to face agenst a BS. Drones kill faster then they can lock onto you with turrets from 50km's away. Even if your moving makes no difference sig radius is too big. Somebody with level 5 in tracking will kill you so fast its not even funny. One did 2000 damage to me. Think I can solo with that even if I had 1000 DPS damage on a SB with torps? Yeah my ehp isn't even 2000 according to the stats. Rolling Eyes

Stop hating... But you know opinions can be harsh but its only the truth. And I'm in the USA so I have the right to my opinion nomatter how harsh it may seem to others. Its my right and only a opinion about ship specs. Don't complain that I attacked you people or something, I only said your specs sucked, not you. Wink So don't get me wrong people. I'm all for what CCP wants not what noobs want who never flown a SB before who are afraid of loseing their care bear selfs. You don't want to be poped by them? Don't go into 0.0, eve is a harsh place. Not hello kitty online. Go play wow if your scarred. YARRRR!! Of getting owned/pawned cus you afked.

This is why ships are nerfed... people complain too much, too many care bears. The truth sucks doesn't it.

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2009.04.05 09:49:00 - [794]
 

Set us up the bomb.


(the option of using 3x bomb launcher would be rather nice)

Thenoran
Caldari
Tranquility Industries
Posted - 2009.04.05 10:57:00 - [795]
 

Originally by: Allen Ramses
Originally by: CCP Chronotis

Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus:
40% bonus to cloaked velocity per level. (double speed with imp. cloak)
20% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level. (Doubled range, good for the role)

Covert Ops Skill Bonus:
7.5% bonus to bomb and torpedo thermal damage per level (+75% damage is too much)
7.5% reduction in bomb and torpedo explosion radius per level (270m expl rad. Good vs BCs, not so good against cruisers and frigs)

Role Bonus:
-99.5% reduction in Siege Missile Launcher powergrid needs
-99% reduction in Bomb Launcher CPU use
-100% targeting delay after decloaking
-25% penalty to Siege Missile Launcher rate of fire
-50% bonus to torpedo damage
How does this look? Can't use a CovOps cloak, but fits the role MUCH better, IMO.


Not bad, but 15%-20% damage bonus is almost mandatory if you really want to start hurting a Battleship.
Keep in mind even a dimly tanked BS has atleast 100k EHP on it, and you might not be around during the entire fight to do damage.

Explosion Radius bonus is not as good as Explosion Velocity.
Even when webbed, the target will move, and a BC will move even faster.
10-12% Explosion Velocity bonus allows for equal effectiveness against a stationary or moving target.
The Explosion Radius itself should have a 25% reduction to it anyway so it can deal good damage to BCs.

smokeydapot
Posted - 2009.04.05 11:32:00 - [796]
 

Edited by: smokeydapot on 05/04/2009 11:32:53
IM not going to read the entire thread as by the time im finished these changes will proberbly be deliverd.
Reasons why i think these changes are a fail.

1) your asking SB pilots to get within a stupid range ( mostly optimal range of most BS's if im thinking right )
2) with the no speed bonus to the cloacked velocity there guna be no good getting through gate camps anymore ( warp disruption bubles etc ) removing the useful ability to CYNO ships in since you fail at the gate.
3) What would be wrong with just fixing the bonuses that the SB's get to what they use ( if a SB cant take out an AB fitted T1 frig there is something wrong there ).
4) The re training to use these ships ( well for me and others that have not long become pilots of them ) is going to be stupid get a close and long range SB for each faction.

I agree that others players might want to take on BS's in there SB's for god sake the only advantage this ship has is its range to avoid getting poped you take that away and people are just guna stop using them and i for one am guna be p***ed at you for doing these changes.
why not bring another SB into the game or would modeling a total of four ships be way to much for CCP to do. The currant SB's fit and work in high and low sec ( apart from the PWR grid and CPU ).
dont know about anyone else but i like hitting ships from 162k or more every 2 to 3 seconds with t1 cruise ok not realy effective against a BS but im not expecting to kill a BS frigs destroyers and crusiers with ease ( as long as they can be webed and scrammed ).

This is just my thoughts on this befor anything is set in stone and sorry if these points have been coverd but I like my Nemesis the way it is.

Lindsay Logan
Posted - 2009.04.05 11:59:00 - [797]
 

Originally by: smokeydapot
Edited by: smokeydapot on 05/04/2009 11:32:53
IM not going to read the entire thread as by the time im finished these changes will proberbly be deliverd.
Reasons why i think these changes are a fail.

1) your asking SB pilots to get within a stupid range ( mostly optimal range of most BS's if im thinking right )
2) with the no speed bonus to the cloacked velocity there guna be no good getting through gate camps anymore ( warp disruption bubles etc ) removing the useful ability to CYNO ships in since you fail at the gate.
3) What would be wrong with just fixing the bonuses that the SB's get to what they use ( if a SB cant take out an AB fitted T1 frig there is something wrong there ).
4) The re training to use these ships ( well for me and others that have not long become pilots of them ) is going to be stupid get a close and long range SB for each faction.

I agree that others players might want to take on BS's in there SB's for god sake the only advantage this ship has is its range to avoid getting poped you take that away and people are just guna stop using them and i for one am guna be p***ed at you for doing these changes.
why not bring another SB into the game or would modeling a total of four ships be way to much for CCP to do. The currant SB's fit and work in high and low sec ( apart from the PWR grid and CPU ).
dont know about anyone else but i like hitting ships from 162k or more every 2 to 3 seconds with t1 cruise ok not realy effective against a BS but im not expecting to kill a BS frigs destroyers and crusiers with ease ( as long as they can be webed and scrammed ).

This is just my thoughts on this befor anything is set in stone and sorry if these points have been coverd but I like my Nemesis the way it is.


The fact is that what the current SB does, is noting that a snpier ship can not to better. And it does it in a way that can only manage to pop a T1 frig and maby a blackbrid once in a while.

Now, the SB got great dps, but from point blanck range, but that is why it gets the cov ops cloak so it can actually ambush someone. The old shoot cloak and warp thing was never any good, and I have to say a fail boat. Sure, some enjoyed it, but now one has an awsome ship that bring needed dps to covert ops gangs, or supprose dps in other gangs. Real supprise dps, and a lot of it. And it works against non noobs in T1 frigs as well.

It is truly a nice ship now, now it got a role. And a nice on at that.

CCP pulled through for this ship and made it full of win.

Sure, someone do not like it, but the fact is that it now is a good ship, as before it never was good, even tho you liked what it was doing. That is the difference.


Saggy Glands
Amalgamated Transport And Trade
Posted - 2009.04.05 12:22:00 - [798]
 

Originally by: Lindsay Logan

It is truly a nice ship now, now it got a role. And a nice on at that.

CCP pulled through for this ship and made it full of win.

Sure, someone do not like it, but the fact is that it now is a good ship, as before it never was good, even tho you liked what it was doing. That is the difference.




I see what you did there. You took your personal opinion and offered it as a fact, unsubstantiated. Meanwhile you discounted the personal opinion of another stealth bomber pilot who proffered some real world experiences.

That's clever! Rolling Eyes

Alabastor LeSerpe
Posted - 2009.04.05 13:04:00 - [799]
 

I've been devastating sleeper class 2 and 3 ships with my current Hound setup, which sends out volleys from 108km to take down the normally troublesome frigates and cruisers and even BS's, and most of the success is due to the distance I can get on the ships to keep me very well out of range. As soon as I get inside 60km they absolutely HAMMER me, so if these changes go through, my currently favorite Wormhole ratting ship will become completely useless.

Just so you get a true taste for how fragile the SB actually is, I wasn't even targeted by a Sleeper BS, then I changed direction from within 60km to go orbit a fleet member and I was instant-locked and popped by the sleeper BS.. nothing but slight lag, then the infamous "Session Change in Progress" alert and hello Pod. And before anyone asks, he popped me with his turret weapon, not his cruise missiles, and I had an 1MN AB going pushing me up into 670m/s (enough to give Sentry Drones a hard time hitting me), so unless they upgrade the CPU and Powergrid enough to give me a MWD (which would only make the cruise missiles hit harder) or bigger AB or a inty style speed increase.. not interested in the SB as a ratting ship anymore.. Looks like I'll be re-focusing to get the Wolf back in action.

Alabastor LeSerpe
Posted - 2009.04.05 13:05:00 - [800]
 

Edited by: Alabastor LeSerpe on 05/04/2009 13:07:14
Sorry for the triple post.. "Post Reply" acted frozen and attempts to refresh apparently made this happen.

Alabastor LeSerpe
Posted - 2009.04.05 13:05:00 - [801]
 

Edited by: Alabastor LeSerpe on 05/04/2009 13:05:53

Lindsay Logan
Posted - 2009.04.05 13:24:00 - [802]
 

Originally by: Saggy Glands
Originally by: Lindsay Logan

It is truly a nice ship now, now it got a role. And a nice on at that.

CCP pulled through for this ship and made it full of win.

Sure, someone do not like it, but the fact is that it now is a good ship, as before it never was good, even tho you liked what it was doing. That is the difference.




I see what you did there. You took your personal opinion and offered it as a fact, unsubstantiated. Meanwhile you discounted the personal opinion of another stealth bomber pilot who proffered some real world experiences.

That's clever! Rolling Eyes



But it is a fact that it is a good ship for what it now do (try it on Sisi). It now has a proper role. And it can fullfil that role. Its a different role then before, granted.

But before it never was a good ship, either. It lacked dps, it lacked any reasin to use it. It was a bad ship.

Sure, my wording may have been bad, but it is IMO a good ship now as well, and the stats (facts) say so as well.

McEivalley
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.04.05 14:09:00 - [803]
 

After a very long and serious thinking I believe this is what you would like to implement in order to keep the ship well balanced and interesting to fly, and keep everyone happy:

1) Keep cruise fitting ability, and spread the 15% racial bonus to damage between the two weapons by giving 5% to cruise and 10% to torps.
2) Add to cpu and grid to allow a full t2 fit with max skills on a t2 ship (instead of t2 ship with best named t1 fits at max skills).
3) Decrease sig radius to half of that of interceptors while not using an mwd.
4) Allow to warp cloaked.
5) Increase the ship's base speed to be in par with assault frigs while using an MWD (maybe a bit less).
6) Give torps an higher explosion velocity as part of its special roles, a 50% increase, as well a reduction in explostion radius of 50%.
7) Keep the agility as it is or even nerf it. Bombers should make bombing runs - not dodge and orbit nimbly. (I'd say a base, no skills alignment time of 10 seconds).
8) Allow to fit more than one bomb launcher on the ship, if you mean to keep bombs as they are now, or make the bomb launcher be used as a probe launcher is. I.e. not a part of the missile launcher count for hi slots. TBH, since the stealth bomber is the only ship that can equip that launcher, I see no reason why not do that anyway.
9) Increase the amount of cap by 10-15%.
10) Disallow more than 1 turret slot on the ship, in order to make fitting a gun obsolete.
11) Reduce the bombers warp speed to 4.5 AU/sec.
12) Nerf its ability to fit covert cyno generators. As it is, the Buzzard becomes nerfed when considering the stealth bombers' new ability to warp cloaked, have a firepower 10 times in order of magnitude etc.
13) Reduce the number of targets it can manage to 4 with max skills. The bomber, by role, focuses on a small amount of targets and should and doesn't "need" 6 targets to lock.
14) Reduce its locking range. Yes, even if you mean to keep the cruise missiles, as you should, this is a frigate after all and a base locking range of 70kms is way too much. This will revitalize remote sensor boosting and will not allow cruise fitting bombers to put as much EWAR as torp fitted ones, which would balance out the different fits for the different roles. A base locking range or 40km is still very appealing.
15) Decrease the sensor strength, making the ship more vulnerable to jamming. White noise could get more useful that way as well, in order to counter stealth bombers.
16) Increase the base scan resolution to around the 600mm with max skills.
17) Reduce the calibration amount for rigs to 300.

ViRUS Pottage
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.04.05 14:15:00 - [804]
 

Edited by: ViRUS Pottage on 05/04/2009 14:25:34
The days when you could 1 volley a frig in a manti should come back. After the missile screw up, I tested my manti against my noob friend in a kessy, and took 4 volleys before I gave up. I then went to 0.0 on a suicide to get rid of this waste of space.

Bombers should be able to 1 shot a frig. As for the anti-bs, you will need a small gang to take down a bs before you die. If I was in a BS and 10 people jumped into local, I wouldn't stay there.. As for torps, all I can say is rofl. Max skills will get you what? 40km? What a waste of time. Id rather you scrap the idea of cov ops cloak and torps, and go back to 3 cruise, damps, sensor boosters, and being able to ACTUALLY KILL ANOTHER SHIP YOUR SIZE.

EDIT

T2 versions of a ship hull should (imo) be able to easily kill its T1 version. For example, a HAC can easily take a Cruiser, a Command Ship can easily take a battlecruiser, a marauder can easily take a battleship, a bomber gets f**ked by a frigate.. This isnt right. If I was in a Manticore, I would try to avoid t1 frigs which is insane.. If you was in a command ship, you wouldnt be scared to go near a battlecruiser.. SAME SHOULD BE WITH BOMBERS.

Lets look at rl bombers.

- They are slow
- They move undetected
- They engage targets at long ranges
- They do alot of damage

There you go.

Make bombers slow, cov ops cloak, long range missiles, and a massive alpha.

Ishidu Uryuu
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.04.05 14:48:00 - [805]
 

Right now on SiSi will be good if bomber get some CPU boost. As it stand now, we are force to use Co-Processor, and best named moduls, to fit our bombers

smokeydapot
Posted - 2009.04.05 16:13:00 - [806]
 

Edited by: smokeydapot on 05/04/2009 16:16:10
While im on the test server here are my stats on my currant skills for my neme

72 m/s velocity cloacked ( might as well not blody use one ) from my previous 400 to 500 m/s
33 k max hit range from my 160k odd ( paint a bulls eye on me why dont you )

again I goto my previous points

a) how are you suposed to get through a gate camp with bubles etc with a speed of that ?
This ship is a COVERT OPS ship is it not that means the ability to get through them gate camps with relative ease 72 m/s is not guna cut it.
b) whats the point in the default range you got on the ship if you cant even hit at that range ( not a previous point but i feel it is valid ) ?
c) my fire rate is now longer than what it was with cruise launchers ( go figure )
d)My dammage is only better by 77 HP this is not a big diffrence from my normal SB fit ( oohh im saving a shot woop de doo ) still prefer the range.

This is a big fail move thanks for the nerf on the SB's whats next nerf the speed of a shuttle because corps at war cant hit them.

Platis
Posted - 2009.04.05 16:54:00 - [807]
 

Edited by: Platis on 05/04/2009 16:57:53
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
Originally by: smokeydapot
Edited by: smokeydapot on 05/04/2009 11:32:53
IM not going to read the entire thread as by the time im finished these changes will proberbly be deliverd.
Reasons why i think these changes are a fail.

1) your asking SB pilots to get within a stupid range ( mostly optimal range of most BS's if im thinking right )
2) with the no speed bonus to the cloacked velocity there guna be no good getting through gate camps anymore ( warp disruption bubles etc ) removing the useful ability to CYNO ships in since you fail at the gate.
3) What would be wrong with just fixing the bonuses that the SB's get to what they use ( if a SB cant take out an AB fitted T1 frig there is something wrong there ).
4) The re training to use these ships ( well for me and others that have not long become pilots of them ) is going to be stupid get a close and long range SB for each faction.

I agree that others players might want to take on BS's in there SB's for god sake the only advantage this ship has is its range to avoid getting poped you take that away and people are just guna stop using them and i for one am guna be p***ed at you for doing these changes.
why not bring another SB into the game or would modeling a total of four ships be way to much for CCP to do. The currant SB's fit and work in high and low sec ( apart from the PWR grid and CPU ).
dont know about anyone else but i like hitting ships from 162k or more every 2 to 3 seconds with t1 cruise ok not realy effective against a BS but im not expecting to kill a BS frigs destroyers and crusiers with ease ( as long as they can be webed and scrammed ).

This is just my thoughts on this befor anything is set in stone and sorry if these points have been coverd but I like my Nemesis the way it is.


The fact is that what the current SB does, is noting that a snpier ship can not to better. And it does it in a way that can only manage to pop a T1 frig and maby a blackbrid once in a while.

Now, the SB got great dps, but from point blanck range, but that is why it gets the cov ops cloak so it can actually ambush someone. The old shoot cloak and warp thing was never any good, and I have to say a fail boat. Sure, some enjoyed it, but now one has an awsome ship that bring needed dps to covert ops gangs, or supprose dps in other gangs. Real supprise dps, and a lot of it. And it works against non noobs in T1 frigs as well.

It is truly a nice ship now, now it got a role. And a nice on at that.

CCP pulled through for this ship and made it full of win.

Sure, someone do not like it, but the fact is that it now is a good ship, as before it never was good, even tho you liked what it was doing. That is the difference.



Lindsay that's not a fact lol,that's still your own opinion and you are cancelling everyone else's out

JVol
Amarr
The IMorral MAjority
Posted - 2009.04.05 17:44:00 - [808]
 

As bombers sit NOW, with the missile nerfs, 2 TP and you insta pop any small ships, hacs either HAVE to warp or jump/dock...or they will die horribly. SB have immence damage as they sit now, in capable hands they demand respect or you'll be in a pod.

Worse case you cloak and chill while they frantacly search for you, the cloaked speed bonus means your not where there looking.

Personally I get great damage, I can move thru hostile camps like a hot knife thru butter,I can MAKE huge gate camps leave with a few bombs (or kill everything in their gang bc and under with 3 buddys bombing).

Those of you who dont currenttly fly this ship but all the sudden are freakin experts on how it needs to be changed make me laugh, out loud ( Merin Ryskin ).

The idea is to take away the two things that add SO much to this ship ( crz and cloaked speed bonus )by adding cov ops all gimped so I have to warp out, leave the engagement and come back to repeat? lol

Lindsy logan: your opinions are not fact. Personally I think the CCp dev in charge should thro out 95% of the posts form folks with less than 20 kills in the ship, if you havent flown it, learned to kill with its streangths and hide its weaknesses, then wtf good is your opinion in regards to making this ship better? Its just hot wind imo.
<-- 50 kills posted with this char, (I fly 3 chars at a time when Im in a manti op fyi)I KNOW its usefullness and how to use it in its role as a dps goliath (for a frig)and how to bomb, next deadlyest thing next to a DDD.(w/ 7 bombers)


When I see these strong opinions on how bad the ship sucks and I search out your kb and see you died twice and killed nothing and your talking like and expert, well.. lets just say its its own comedy. Im sitting here thinking.. 'these SB noobs are going to turn my fav frig into a torp-buzzard and f*** it all up'.

The cov cloak need not be added.. double the cloaked speed bonus or the ships survivability will go down further than it is atm.

Lin Zexu
Posted - 2009.04.05 18:01:00 - [809]
 

I would Like to Post this link to 39 Videos of Argh69 SB kills before QR. CCP, This is the gameplay style that attracted me to the bomber and I'm sure other SB pilots too. Plz reconsider changes.

Argh69's 39th SB kill Video, His comments on changes are also posted on this video also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq8T-IZ7mHM&feature=channel_page


Lin.

smokeydapot
Posted - 2009.04.05 18:44:00 - [810]
 

Edited by: smokeydapot on 05/04/2009 20:07:21
Edited by: smokeydapot on 05/04/2009 18:43:55
Originally by: JVol
As bombers sit NOW, with the missile nerfs, 2 TP and you insta pop any small ships, hacs either HAVE to warp or jump/dock...or they will die horribly. SB have immence damage as they sit now, in capable hands they demand respect or you'll be in a pod.

Worse case you cloak and chill while they frantacly search for you, the cloaked speed bonus means your not where there looking.

Personally I get great damage, I can move thru hostile camps like a hot knife thru butter,I can MAKE huge gate camps leave with a few bombs (or kill everything in their gang bc and under with 3 buddys bombing).

Those of you who dont currenttly fly this ship but all the sudden are freakin experts on how it needs to be changed make me laugh, out loud ( Merin Ryskin ).

The idea is to take away the two things that add SO much to this ship ( crz and cloaked speed bonus )by adding cov ops all gimped so I have to warp out, leave the engagement and come back to repeat? lol

Lindsy logan: your opinions are not fact. Personally I think the CCp dev in charge should thro out 95% of the posts form folks with less than 20 kills in the ship, if you havent flown it, learned to kill with its streangths and hide its weaknesses, then wtf good is your opinion in regards to making this ship better? Its just hot wind imo.
<-- 50 kills posted with this char, (I fly 3 chars at a time when Im in a manti op fyi)I KNOW its usefullness and how to use it in its role as a dps goliath (for a frig)and how to bomb, next deadlyest thing next to a DDD.(w/ 7 bombers)


When I see these strong opinions on how bad the ship sucks and I search out your kb and see you died twice and killed nothing and your talking like and expert, well.. lets just say its its own comedy. Im sitting here thinking.. 'these SB noobs are going to turn my fav frig into a torp-buzzard and f*** it all up'.

The cov cloak need not be added.. double the cloaked speed bonus or the ships survivability will go down further than it is atm.



I agree with you totaly there is an art to using it as it is now picking your targets carefuly etc.
I would be intrested to see who cant kill a BS with the ship how it is now with what it has not what CCP want to give it.
Sort out the PWR grid and CPU and if you realy have to add the covert ops cloack but for god sake if you get rid of the speed bonus while cloacked your poding every pilot that pilots one there is little to no things that need changing on this ship it works and fills a role grate.

And FYI i have only had one death in the entire time i have piloted this ship and that was down to me doing a CYNO ( looking at my deaths i have 2 but a m8 of mine thought he could do missions with my neme Sad ).

to quote CCP Chronotis
"Increased cloaked velocity
To help with the manoeuvring into range, we are looking at increasing the cloaked velocity substantially (so the bomber could have a velocity between 750-1200 m/s). This way the bomber could better keep up and get into range faster with targets for a strike.
"

Has this been thrown to the wolves or something ?

And i am woundering where he is getting this from " The result of this is much higher damage to larger targets such as battleships but at the cost of range as you have to get much closer to your target. This has pros and cons such as much shorter duration before your torpedo hits and being able to cloak or get away faster after firing but also increases the danger as you have to be extremely close to your targets." because with the currant setup i cant help but hit for max dammage against a big target at well above my standard range.

Im going to add this to every poste untill i see something good come from this

THIS IS FAIL.


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