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Jade Blackclaw
Gallente
Lightspeed Enterprises
Posted - 2009.04.04 05:59:00 - [721]
 

Edited by: Jade Blackclaw on 04/04/2009 06:00:51
Just an idea, why not turn the bomber into a bomber. Remove the ability to use missiles and improve the bombs, the way they work, how expensive they are, their size.

For example
Nemesis Bonuses:
Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus:
20% bonus to Bomb AoE and detonation radius per level

Covert Ops Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to bomb thermal damage per level
10% bonus to cloaked velocity per level

Role Bonus:
-99% reduction in Bomb Launcher CPU use
-100% targeting delay after decloaking

3 Bomb launcher hardpoints

On to the bombs:
Allow bombs to be proximity charges, based on the ship that was targeted at bomb launch (basically target paint the ship). Bombs still are dumb weapons requiring aiming, but will detonate within blast range of the target, making 'aiming' less difficult. If they do not pass within range of their target, they will detonate upon striking any object in the world, or at the end of the timer.

Bomb Launcher Changes:
RoF: 4 sec
Capacity 100m3

Concussion Bomb Changes:
Volume 20m3
AoE 10km
Detonation Range: 5km
Kinetic damage 750
Change behavior to act like a mobile smartbomb, instant damage reduced only by resists,

Now before everyone says that they are now severely underpowered, think about their ability to now fire 3 bombs at a time into the field... if they desire, so 2250 volley or 562.5 dps. They also have the ability to fire, without targeting, allowing them to possibly be overlooked in some battles, until bombs begin timing out in the middle of the fray, or colliding with ships. Smaller ships will have the advantage against them, if they are watching, as they should be able to dodge the warheads, fairly easily. This also places them in a niche, being the only ship capable of remote AoE damage.

S'vart Tseirgn
Calimae Logistics Foundation
Manifest Destiny.
Posted - 2009.04.04 06:59:00 - [722]
 

Originally by: Jade Blackclaw
Edited by: Jade Blackclaw on 04/04/2009 06:00:51
Just an idea, why not turn the bomber into a bomber. Remove the ability to use missiles and improve the bombs, the way they work, how expensive they are, their size.

For example
Nemesis Bonuses:
Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus:
20% bonus to Bomb AoE and detonation radius per level

Covert Ops Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to bomb thermal damage per level
10% bonus to cloaked velocity per level

Role Bonus:
-99% reduction in Bomb Launcher CPU use
-100% targeting delay after decloaking

3 Bomb launcher hardpoints

On to the bombs:
Allow bombs to be proximity charges, based on the ship that was targeted at bomb launch (basically target paint the ship). Bombs still are dumb weapons requiring aiming, but will detonate within blast range of the target, making 'aiming' less difficult. If they do not pass within range of their target, they will detonate upon striking any object in the world, or at the end of the timer.

Bomb Launcher Changes:
RoF: 4 sec
Capacity 100m3

Concussion Bomb Changes:
Volume 20m3
AoE 10km
Detonation Range: 5km
Kinetic damage 750
Change behavior to act like a mobile smartbomb, instant damage reduced only by resists,

Now before everyone says that they are now severely underpowered, think about their ability to now fire 3 bombs at a time into the field... if they desire, so 2250 volley or 562.5 dps. They also have the ability to fire, without targeting, allowing them to possibly be overlooked in some battles, until bombs begin timing out in the middle of the fray, or colliding with ships. Smaller ships will have the advantage against them, if they are watching, as they should be able to dodge the warheads, fairly easily. This also places them in a niche, being the only ship capable of remote AoE damage.




A very interesting idea (I like it too)....the only downside to this I can see is:

1) Bombs would have to be allowed everywhere - rather than their current limited areas (ie open all security ratings for deploying them)
2) People who gate/station-hug...

Murashu
Liberal Frontier Enterprises
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2009.04.04 07:13:00 - [723]
 

Did more testing tonight and I stand by my previous statement on the new SB...bleh. I'm loving the Covert Ops cloak but the torps just flat out blow. Hitting a stationary frigate for 170 damage, stationary cruiser for 500 damage, and stationary battleship for 900 is weak. My cruise missiles hit harder than that AND I could sit safely 100k+ away. Now I have to fight inside point range and have fewer targets that I can effectively engage. As others have pointed out, there are already several ships that can go toe to toe with a Battleship and they will live much longer.

My friends and I aren't into blob warfare so the possibility of me flying around with 10-20 SB's hoping to find a solo BS to gank is pretty slim. I generally fly with 1-2 friends and the SB made a great ship to destroy any frigates/destroyers/cruisers/AFs we came across and had the range to run off ceptors or anything trying to annoy us from long range. If the test version goes to TQ the only use I will have for it is a backup scout if I happen to lose my cheetah.

Zostera
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.04.04 08:24:00 - [724]
 

One point that escaped me so far.

If the new bomber is not a solo ship, if it runs in packs at close range....

How are we all going to avoid decloaking each other on the way in?

Zos

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2009.04.04 09:41:00 - [725]
 

Originally by: Zostera
One point that escaped me so far.

If the new bomber is not a solo ship, if it runs in packs at close range....

How are we all going to avoid decloaking each other on the way in?

Zos


As covops have been doing since forever when they slingshot gangs (as there's always at least 1 idiot who warps at zero); start moving up/down as the others warp in. Sure gangwarping doesn't work but that would be a tad too easy wouldn't it. first one/scout warps in; starts moving off the plan as the others warp in using a timing system. It's not difficult, not rocketsience and all it takes is some teamwork and talking it over.

Zostera
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.04.04 09:56:00 - [726]
 

Originally by: Tzar'rim
Originally by: Zostera
One point that escaped me so far.

If the new bomber is not a solo ship, if it runs in packs at close range....

How are we all going to avoid decloaking each other on the way in?

Zos


As covops have been doing since forever when they slingshot gangs (as there's always at least 1 idiot who warps at zero); start moving up/down as the others warp in. Sure gangwarping doesn't work but that would be a tad too easy wouldn't it. first one/scout warps in; starts moving off the plan as the others warp in using a timing system. It's not difficult, not rocketsience and all it takes is some teamwork and talking it over.


Not sure that will work so well now that the ships have to be getting closer to the target ship and also avoid hostile ships too. Add to that the complication of a bubble and perhaps having to travel a long way cloaked from a warp in spot to avoid it. Seems like a lot of fiddling about for a "fast deadly strike".

Zos

Toyo Italari
Posted - 2009.04.04 10:06:00 - [727]
 

To those doing active testing, how does this:

Originally by: CCP Nozh
Update - Should be on Singularity now:

Scan Resolution:


  • Cruisers - General - 15% Boost

  • Cruisers - HAC - 20% Boost

  • Cruisers - Force Recon - 10% Boost

  • Battleship - Black Ops - 10% Boost






affect the latest SiSi stealth bomber, if it all?

It's one thing for the bombers to be gobbled by fast tacklers and drones, but even if we had the 5 second recloak, cruisers without sensor boosters could now lock a frigate in under 5 seconds.

Fitting the small tank was an interesting idea that someone earlier had, but being able to sustain 33 DPS for 47 seconds doesn't strike me as the best solution, particularly when you have to drop all BCUs (reducing alpha considerably) to achieve all of 3.4k EHP with max skills. A well built Taranis or something will still chew that apart in 17 seconds, without ever taking sizable damage in return.

Being killed by Inties is fine, having no chance to survive against anything at all seems a bit iffy. Generally I already engage slightly behind everyone else to direct first aggro (drone, inties, etc) to the enemy's primary or our fast tackle, folks that can reasonably survive and are in a cheaper ship (remember, I orbit 20 km away from my target so I can recloak quickly and still land my volley), and I'll still do that with or without Cov Ops cloak. Nothing prevents folks from cloaking as soon as they come out of warp, they just can't surprise someone that way.

That being said, I'm still a target and have been locked plenty of times in that 5 second window. I'm all for adapting to new changes, and already have plans for the Torp build (I need Rapier friends), but it's looking to me like the best option is still speed tanking. Sensor damp (scan res) is an interesting option that I'll have to look at some more, however.

For those "blinkers" out there, try:

2x Remote Sensor Damp II (Scan Resolution) against Cruisers and bigger.

With current 15 second recloak time, your best blink time is immediately following your second volley (to prevent RoF loss, although you may have to take the RoF hit if the cruiser is using one SeBo, to break their lock timer.).

Assume two bombers in gang, and a single cruiser (without sensor boost) is down to 28 second lock time.. Plenty of time for it to die. Still vulnerable to Interceptors (7.5 second lock with 4x sensor damp II [two bombers]), which is perfectly fine. They should be.

Throw in a Rapier for random lawls against an MWDing Cruiser, let's say Rupture, and you have a cruiser moving at 305 - 400 m/s, depending on skill/build, with a signature of 1182. I think if you have good pilots, particularly the Rapier pilot, a 2x bomber/1x Rapier can take on 3x T1 cruiser easily (or 2x cruiser, 1x Inty if you want), and maybe certain T2 cruisers... You just better hope you have the right bombers against T2 resists.

Sevanna
Minmatar
The Fated
E.Y
Posted - 2009.04.04 10:08:00 - [728]
 

Im not going to read all these posts.
and im not going re'check this post anyways.

But 'in case anyone involved in the modification of the stealthbomber reads this, then this is my feedback on what ive read.

Quote:

1. Bombers will be able to fit covert ops cloak


Love this change, would love to see this on the black ops aswell.
Quote:

2. Bombers will be able to fit and use siege launchers and fire torpedoes.


mixed feelings, was anyone thinking of 'blob' warefare when modifying this.... >.< (shame on you)
cenario: only real use will be suprice mass attacks.
(wich wont be any real point since people would field something else instead, that deals more dmg, has more survivabillity and more all around combat ship.etc...
*kills the point of using this ship. >.<


solo or small gang, has no real reason to be using this. cheaper and more usefull to use most other ships.

*keep the cruise, or use both, so you can have multible options. this is and will be more usefull vs smaller targets than vs bs. since taking out a stealthbomber is fairly easy. specially after the half minute re'cloak delay.

Quote:

3. Bombers will gain bonuses to torpedoes


well, without this, it'd be quite pointless =)*maybe fixes to the bonuses might change the use of the torps?, but currently i dont see any healthy change to this for any real justification of the stealthbomber using torps..

Quote:

4. They will still use bombs

Nothing is changing on this front for now.


sure, but with the current pricetag for using bombs, I dont think many will be using them anyways. but then again, bomb spamming wont be to common.(wich is good.)
use bombs vs blobbs.. not just anywhere.


Quote:

So an example Nemesis bonus description will be like this:

Quote:

Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus:
20% bonus to Torpedo Explosion velocity per level
20% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level

Covert Ops Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to bomb thermal damage per level
15% bonus to Torpedo thermal damage per level

Role Bonus:
-99.5% reduction in Siege Missile Launcher powergrid needs
-99% reduction in Bomb Launcher CPU use
-100% targeting delay after decloaking


personally i found the stealthbombers to be more usefull for 'support'-takeout than any real heavy hitters.

calculating dps isnt relevant for the stealth bombers since their way to fragile to stay in any real combat situation. Its the Alpha dmg that counts. and for any real combat 3 launchers with torps, even with 15%+ dmg bonus.. its really not going to ammount to anything usefull.

*Maybe?.. just an afterthought.
lower ROF
higer DMG bonus.?
by creating even higer ALPHA. and Lowering the DPS. would make this ship maybe a feasible option to use.
current full impact around 2-3k ? my rifter would kick its arse quite quicly =D

and for a bs. only real effect would be if there are about 10+ stealthbombers hammering... while 10 bs would instapop it easy.. =(
really without effect.. 20.000++ Hp's + resists ofc. =)

higer alpha: lower dps:
even with 100% increase in dmg, it will only really affect larger ships.
and the dmg increase isnt that huge. sure a maxed out s.bomber pilot, +´max torp skills, etc. will manage upp to 6k dmg.
rof changes 100% increase instead? wich would make the same cenario pilot have a rof of 15 sec. hence a top notch pilot, with only ballistic cntrl in lows gets a dps of 400. with t2 racial rage torps.

but can dish out a strong alpha. he cant recloak too fast. but should manage 2-3 volleys before has to runn off.


*ok this post got way to long.. sry bout that.*
actually doubt anyone will read this lol....







Thenoran
Caldari
Tranquility Industries
Posted - 2009.04.04 10:56:00 - [729]
 

Edited by: Thenoran on 04/04/2009 11:04:04
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Update - Should be on Singularity now:

Scan Resolution:


  • Cruisers - General - 15% Boost

  • Cruisers - HAC - 20% Boost

  • Cruisers - Force Recon - 10% Boost

  • Battleship - Black Ops - 10% Boost



Please check out these new values on Singularity and leave some feedback... Might be a bit inactive on the forums next week, weekend / Easter holiday. But I'll try to drop by as often as possible..




The current 15 second recloak delay won't be sufficient with this change.
You'll get locked long before then. Either boost Sensor Damps, or just bring the cloaking delay down to 5 seconds like with the current cloaking devices used on the SB.

A better option would be to reduce the SBs signature radius though, making it harder to lock once more.

Tozmeister
Digital Fury Corporation
Posted - 2009.04.04 12:00:00 - [730]
 

I had an idea for coordinating a cloaked gang. Change the 'In Position' broadcast to work on a cloaked ship.

Currently, if you broadcast while cloaked the graphic icon just defaults to the nearest celestial body as observed by your gang mates.

Have the Icon appear in space where it should be (right over your ship) but only visible to ppl in your gang then you have a tool for demonstrating in 3 dimensions exactly where all ships are located allowing you to maneuver into position without decloaking each other.

paddytehpyro
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2009.04.04 12:55:00 - [731]
 

Originally by: Tozmeister
I had an idea for coordinating a cloaked gang. Change the 'In Position' broadcast to work on a cloaked ship.

Currently, if you broadcast while cloaked the graphic icon just defaults to the nearest celestial body as observed by your gang mates.

Have the Icon appear in space where it should be (right over your ship) but only visible to ppl in your gang then you have a tool for demonstrating in 3 dimensions exactly where all ships are located allowing you to maneuver into position without decloaking each other.


That would be brilliant.

RedSplat
Posted - 2009.04.04 12:57:00 - [732]
 

Originally by: paddytehpyro
Originally by: Tozmeister
I had an idea for coordinating a cloaked gang. Change the 'In Position' broadcast to work on a cloaked ship.

Currently, if you broadcast while cloaked the graphic icon just defaults to the nearest celestial body as observed by your gang mates.

Have the Icon appear in space where it should be (right over your ship) but only visible to ppl in your gang then you have a tool for demonstrating in 3 dimensions exactly where all ships are located allowing you to maneuver into position without decloaking each other.



That would be brilliant.


I would like this done yesterday, its an annoying and totally unnecesary 'feature'

DNSBLACK
Gallente
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2009.04.04 13:41:00 - [733]
 

CCP Chronotis- Testing 2 hours on sisi friday night

1. Damage 15% will not cut it 20% was the correct number for the increase. Iam affraid that if we do 15% increase this time and it isnt working CCP will not revisit the bomber to move back to 20%. The final change should be 20 %

2. The CPU and POWER grid was bug. We actually found a reduction on power grid of the mani not a increase. There was also screwy numbers on different cloak fits. Please look at the CPU and power grid change the cpu increase was not enough and we fit less.

3. 15 sec is to long. No matter what we did drones would eat us alive. Please try the no cloaking delay with the COV OPS cloak.

4. CCP Chronotis- This ship is probly the singel most important ship to not only me but my entire alliance. Iam not excited about the changes taking away what already exist. I believe you were wrong in stating "THE VAST MAJORITY" want these changes. Please read and listen to these other players and allow us to keep the orignal cruise bomber. Iam not asking for another ship iam asking for a ship that can use both cruise and torp. I have read every post in this section about bombers and the vast majority do not want this change to effect what they already have. We enjoy the bomber and in the end all we really wanted was a cov cloak for it. The aded torps are nice but not at the cost of what we have. I know this is the bomber only shot at getting a buff or change CCP will not come back to this little fun ship once this is done. You will be focusing on TECH 3 and so on. Please give us cruise and these torps PLease please please.

Black


Meazy San
Posted - 2009.04.04 14:19:00 - [734]
 

Edited by: Meazy San on 04/04/2009 14:31:22

Well it wouldn't be a bomber if it was able to fire missiles from 100K. Sorry I just had to say it. Bombs and Torps makes more sense. Maybe they could just scratch out bombs all together and give role bonus for torps having an AoE effect.
Maybe somthing like:

Role Bonus:
+1.5% Torpedo Area of effect range per level (At level 1 = 1.5km at Level 5 it would max out at 7.5km)
+10% Area of effect damage per level (Aside from the 20%Damage from the impact)

So basically the original point of impact(What ever ship targeted would get the full 20% damage bonus which is racial and the surrounding vessels caught in the aoe radius would suffer only 10% damage or hell maybe even lower or higher for balance purposes)





RedSplat
Posted - 2009.04.04 14:23:00 - [735]
 

Originally by: DNSBLACK
CCP Chronotis- Testing 2 hours on sisi friday night

1. Damage 15% will not cut it 20% was the correct number for the increase. Iam affraid that if we do 15% increase this time and it isnt working CCP will not revisit the bomber to move back to 20%. The final change should be 20 %



I was pretty leery about this, although i know why it was changed.

My ideal would be shifting the damage bonus to a much higher value (say even 100%), but then changing the fire rate to keep DPS from being lunacy.

Rather than simply changing base firerate for the SB hull i cant fathom why Chronnie nerf'd the dmg boni:

The stated worry was how volley damage stacked up over time, for example 5 SB's firing 3 volleys in a relatively short time and popping a BS with the second or third.

So, why not increase the time between volleys and increase the dmg bonus. Confused


Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Fleet of Doom
Posted - 2009.04.04 15:23:00 - [736]
 

Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Ok, this is much better, but still needs some work.

Quote:
1. Bombers will be able to fit covert ops cloak

However they will have a 30 second cloak reactivation delay. This means they can warp in cloaked and better surprise their targets in a true ambush. However once they are committed to the fight, they will not be able to recloak quickly as a drawback so choosing the right time to strike is essential.


This is fair. My only concern here is getting de-cloaked by objects. With the current covops ships, you can almost immediately re-cloak as soon as you get out of range of the object, but bombers are going to be exposed for a full 30 seconds.

Would it be possible to code the delay so it is only triggered once you activate weapons? That way you're still forced to spend a full 30 seconds uncloaked if you want to engage a target, but don't run into problems moving around.


Quote:
2. Bombers will be able to fit and use siege launchers and fire torpedoes.

This allows them to inflict a high amount of alpha damage on larger targets and be serious threat to them. In gangs with other ships and available strategies will add significant damage to the fleet. They will no longer be able to fit cruise launchers as a result.



I'm still not happy with this one. There are three fundamental problems here:


1) Torps are redundant. You already have a short-range, high-damage weapon: bombs. And it's even a weapon that is most effective against battleships. If you fix bombs correctly (most importantly, reduce the absurd cost), the only reason you'd ever need to use torps on a bomber is if you refuse to remove the 0.0-only limitation.

2) Bombers are paper. Survival odds for a stealth bomber are bad enough as it is, de-cloak within 24km of anything with guns and you'll be in a pod within seconds. The only defense a stealth bomber currently has is its long range, and now you want to take that away? I don't see bombers getting an AF's resists or an interceptor's speed without becoming too powerful, so they really need to keep their range.

3) Wasted skills suck. Since stealth bombers are the only cruise missile ship (or even missile ship at all) for a lot of players, changing them to use torps means wasted SP, especially if they trained T2 cruise.




But as I said in the other thread, there is a better way of doing this:


1) Introduce a special bomber-only weapon: covert warhead launcher. You can load one of two options:

a) 5x cruise missiles.

OR

b) 1x bomb.

The launcher itself has a very high ROF, meaning if you go with cruise missiles, you will have very good dps as long as your missiles last. However, there are two penalties:

a) Small capacity. You do huge dps, but only for a very short time.

b) Long reload time. As in, a full minute or so (ideally with just the standard 10 seconds if you reload out of combat to change missile types).

Both of these ensure that the stealth bomber is a proper ambush ship: you can do devastating damage in a very short amount of time, but if you don't plan your ambush carefully you're going to find yourself with a very angry target and nothing to shoot back with.


2) Fix bombs. Make them proper short-range AOE weapons. This means the following:

a) Reduce the cost to something comparable to interdictor bubbles. High enough that buying a stack of 500 is a noticeable dent in your wallet, but low enough to use without hesitation.

b) Remove the 0.0-only limit. No more toys for just the rich alliances. Do NOT, however, change CONCORD/sec hit/sentry response, bombs are use-at-own-risk, just like smartbombs and ECM bursts.

c) Balance their damage/blast radius/etc appropriately for their new cost (remember, you can launch up to three at once).




There. Bombers are now fixed, and everyone is happy.


this, please.Twisted Evil

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2009.04.04 15:36:00 - [737]
 

My new idea ([probably far too late)

MAk the SB DIFFERENT among themselves!!!

Caldari one: keeps as cruiser launcher
Minmatar become torpedo launcher
Gallente become super focused on bomb launchers
Ammar fitting bonus and 100% range increase for LARGE smartbombs!

JVol
Amarr
The IMorral MAjority
Posted - 2009.04.04 15:41:00 - [738]
 

Cloaked ships dont uncloak eachother...

Miyamoto Isoruku
Caldari
Original Sin.
Posted - 2009.04.04 15:45:00 - [739]
 

The more I think about this, the more I am coming to the conclusion that the torp bomber needs a new hull, and it needs at least a modest tank. In exchange for this it should probably lose the cov ops cloak, or have the penalty go back up to 30 seconds. But KEEP THE CRUISE BOMBER, just fix the damned explosion velocity.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.04.04 16:05:00 - [740]
 

Quote:
OR give us (the current SB pilots) a pirate faction frig that would fill the role you are taking away from us?


This is a rather interesting idea actually.

Probably doesn't help much with the current situation though.


Dr Resheph
Amarr
YOU ARE NOW READING THIS LOUDLY
Posted - 2009.04.04 16:44:00 - [741]
 

CCP isn't taking away any role, swatting frigates isn't something unique to Stealth Bombers. The only difference is how its done, and I know from experience as an Interceptor pilot that SB are laughably ineffective compared to other ships.

What it boils down to is you want to use cruise to kill frigates because that gives you range and a sense of security. With Torpedoes you'd have to get closer and you'd be vulnerable to the majority of combat ships on weapons alone. Doubly so with paper thin hitpoints.

Quite frankly, making any ship less of a cowardmobile is going to get a rise out of players. Laughing

Nalena Arlath
Posted - 2009.04.04 17:21:00 - [742]
 

My first thought in this is... warp in, cloak, fly over to a sniper, alpha, laugh, fly away...

plastastic
Posted - 2009.04.04 18:05:00 - [743]
 

Originally by: Vigaz
Manticore has the worst Scan resolution
Manticore has the worst agility
Manticore has the worst speed
Manticore has the worst sig radius
Manticore has the worst damage type -> Kin (New role target is a BS)
Manticore has the best targetting range

Manticore and Nemesis cannot fit MWD with any BCU (Purifier and Hound can fit 2x BCU T2 and a MWD T2 without rigs or implants)

With the OP proposal the max range for torps will be 45km, the only plus for a manticore is the 70km targetting range (where Hound has the worst range -> 50Km) , Could you please check all the attributes of those ships to have a more balanced situation?

What about a bigger bonus for Torp velocity to counter the drowback(drawback) of the Manticore and Nemesis (2nd worst SB)?


manti is the only one that can fit a MWD BCU and improved cloak makeing it by far faster then the other ones when cloaked(turn on mwd hit cloak=crazy fast). The manticore has more mid slots then the others so it can fit a sensor dam makeing up for the sig radius

this is how i fit my manti
Manticore

however the purifier trying to fit the same setup(with 2 BCU as you said it was able to) falls short
fier
(cannot fit a co-pro because it take one PG)



kin damage dose have higher base resit then the outer however this is due to armor not having a base recharge time, like shields, so it is inline with every other damage type. Also because more people armor tank it is better to shoot kin then therm.

so is there any other misconceptions about the manticore i can kill for you?


on the topic note
any chance the SB can get a 150m/s speed boost because 260m/s on a frig hull is just too slow without the speed boost from cloaking

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2009.04.04 18:17:00 - [744]
 

You want to give bombers a focused role? Stop being gentle with them :p

The cloak changes are good. So's switching to torps, but the firepower still lacks. Give them 4 hardpoints. Either 4 sieges, 3 siege / 1 bomb or 4 bombs (expensive but brutal). If 4 bomb hardpoints are too scary, limit them to fitting three max.

Cruises or torps - no matter what, in their current state they lack punch. A couple bombers should be pretty terrifying to any solo battleship, and currently they need large numbers to be terrifying - even with these sweet changes. With four torp hardpoints, three bombers could put out close to the DPS of two ravens against a BS sized target, making taking them out a priority.

Now that's a ship I'd wanna fly :|

Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar
Noonday Sun Corp
Posted - 2009.04.04 19:22:00 - [745]
 

These changes pretty much killed any use I had for my Hound. I generally just used it to clear out hoards of NPC frigs in low-end exploration sites. The anti-small ship role is now dead. Crying or Very sad I can still do the job with an AF or a Dessie, but not nearly as fast.

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2009.04.04 20:32:00 - [746]
 

Paramedic "Did you see what happened?"

Concerned Bystander -> "This poor ship was hit by a nerfbat."

Paramedic -> "Ok, has any first aid been applied?" Checks for pulse and looks worried.

Concerned Bystander -> "We flogged it for a while but it wouldn't move."

Paramedic -> "This dead ship is way beyond flogging." Starts unpacking the defibrillator.

Paramedic -> "CLEAR!"


Quote:
OR give us (the current SB pilots) a pirate faction frig that would fill the role you are taking away from us?


Will Manti "The Bomber" Core survive to live a life of rum, wenches and open seas?


Seriously CCP this suggestion is a gem. Very Happy

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2009.04.04 20:36:00 - [747]
 

Edited by: Sigras on 04/04/2009 21:15:21
Originally by: Lyvanna Kitaen
I generally just used it to clear out hoards of NPC frigs in low-end exploration sites. The anti-small ship role is now dead. Crying or Very sad I can still do the job with an AF or a Dessie, but not nearly as fast.


i think thats kinda the point, these ships were never intended to be anti frigate ships; just look at the way bombs work, they're most effective against battleships, and the entire stealth bomber mechanic seems geared toward punishing people who didnt bring anti frigate support.

I do have a question though. if bombs dont travel anywhere, why do they have a velocity? And more importantly, who designed these death traps anyway?

I mean what moron engineer at Duvolle Laboratories said "Lets design a weapon where proper use places me in the blast radius of my own weapon!"?

Saggy Glands
Amalgamated Transport And Trade
Posted - 2009.04.04 20:43:00 - [748]
 

Originally by: plastastic
[
however the purifier trying to fit the same setup(with 2 BCU as you said it was able to) falls short
fier
(cannot fit a co-pro because it take one PG)



Generally purifiers would fit speed mods in the lows along with a solo BCU. It is very nice moving around at 450m/s + while cloaked after your 1500ish mwd spurt. Either to get your range position on a fight or to get past that anchored bubble. So the lack of powergrid didn't hurt so much, it just limited options.

Of course now it's going to take forever to get into position to die to drones after the first volley, and getting out of an anchored bubble in one piece is going to be near impossible.

I like the idea previously stated of making CCP Colitis' fail boat a pirate faction ship. Of course it would have to be like 100LP to get one, as your change of survivability is around 1% so you'll need a lot of them.

His entire idea should just be ditched and us SB pilots given what we had originally asked for. An added ship bonus to explosion velocity. This would have then been 15 pages of cheers and adulation, instead of 15 pages of "Thanks but no thanks, can I haz my missile SP moved to spaceship command?"

666Devious
Sinister Elite
Raining Doom
Posted - 2009.04.04 21:15:00 - [749]
 

Since I am amarr can i have my skill points back since I trained cruise missiles to level 5 plus alot of other missile skills.

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2009.04.04 21:25:00 - [750]
 

because the amarr dont have any ships that use missiles Rolling EyesRolling EyesRolling Eyes


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