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Gartel Reiman
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2009.04.03 16:28:00 - [661]
 

Originally by: CrestoftheStars
Originally by: Fzhal
I still think that the Torp SB needs more damage.

same, the dmg is too low, even 2 stealth bombers on a normal fit bs will be killed by the drones before killing the bs, considering they cost 40-50mill a piece and the bs cost about 20-40 mill a piece (because of insurence) and the stealth is specifically designed in ONLY killing bs's their dmg is just way too low for this..

Sorry, is a 5-600 DPS, warp-while-cloaked frigate not doing it for you? You could make a similar argument about, say, Thoraxes - they do about the same DPS when fit aggressively, and will be hit more easily by the BS' weapons to make up for the higher base EHP.

Besides, send a single Arazu in with those bombers to point + damp from 40km, while the bombers fire from the same range, and the BS is completely screwed unless he managed to dump his drones before the bombers started firing - which is not going to happen given no sensor recalibration times for the SBs meaning they lock, and thus start firing, 1-2 seconds after decloaking.

Alternatively, anything else that can act as anti-drone duty should do the trick (medium autocannons from 10-15km away should be quite good, a Pilgrim's bonused lights would tear them up, any small weapons, perhaps even smartbombs on the bombers?) and if the bombers fit a small buffer they should be able to survive long enough for the secondary weaponry to destroy 5 light drones.

The ships are meant to be fragile, they need to be protected through use of range, electronic warfare and support. Quite frankly just thinking through the situations above, I like the concept that it's not just "pile everything on the primary and hope it dies before my own tank fails", but by setting up ships to amplify each others' strengths and cover their weaknesses you can be effective through finesse rather than raw strength.

As for cost - I'm not sure whether you're including fittings or not, but where I live a Purifier costs around 7m, and even the overpriced Manticore costs 17m. The SB's fitting is likely to be cheaper than the battleship's too since even with the 8m Covops cloak it's fitting less mods overall, and T2 battleship weapons aren't cheap (24m just to put 8 Megapulse on an Abaddon). But even then I don't really want to go there, since the argument that the more expensive ship ought to win is ridiculous.

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2009.04.03 16:30:00 - [662]
 

Originally by: Hesperius
I can see making a bomber that is easier for rookies to fly, but really why not give us a secondary bomber? OR give us (the current SB pilots) a pirate faction frig that would fill the role you are taking away from us?


I can see that the current SB is easier for rookies to fly.


Gartel Reiman
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2009.04.03 16:31:00 - [663]
 

Originally by: Hesperius
After several hours on the test server - I still do not like this. One guy had a decent fit for a bomber that was sig tanking, which was pretty nice for this new role. I just want my cruise launching frig back...

Would you mind expanding on what you were trying to do with the bomber, what your expectations were and how it fell short? I ask because I haven't had a chance to get on SiSi to play with these changes, but I can't imagine how it could be less effective than the current cruise-launching incarnation...

Zostera
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.04.03 16:35:00 - [664]
 

I really don't think a 400mm plate or Medium shield extender is going to make the difference here.

The point most people are making is that you must remain on the field uncloaked for 10 seconds for your torps to hit. In doing thatyou will be pointed by support. It doesn't matter how much extra HP you have to survive a few extra seconds, it's the low likelyhood of survival at all.

And realistically, does anyone actual seem to want a close range higher dps fit for this ship? The stealth bomber is a perfect example of where a ship can be focused on tactics and precise use, not Blob in and gank like so many other ship types do.

EvE PvP is getting more and more narrowly focused and boring the crap out of me.

Would be great to see the Devs respond by duplicating the ship with some of the players suggestions that keep cruise and see how that performs on Sisi instead of flogging what is clearly becoming a dead horse.

Zos

DNSBLACK
Gallente
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2009.04.03 16:37:00 - [665]
 

Edited by: DNSBLACK on 03/04/2009 18:04:43
Ok ran some more test last night and had some discussion with my dedicated SB pilots.

1. The CPU and Power grid increase will be nice.

2. 20% or 15%? Most would like to wait and see and test. The 20% was perfect really didnt think it was over powered considering all the changes. Loss of range, explosion radius and the addition of the cloak delay. We need to hit hard and fast due to drones and other counters in the area of engagment. I would ask for the 20% be the number up front but will remain open minded to 15%.

3. Cloaking Delay - 15 seconds is a close window with lag and timing. Yes with a game that is in a va****and no lag this time would work. 5-8 sec delay would be more realistic and would make the counter for these ships be the destroyer, frigs, ceptors with the fast lock times. Lets not forget the drones will also prevent this re-cloak.

4. bombs- Something happen to these with the latest changes. We tested them last night and they are not hiting for full damage. Not suire why or what you changed. What would be nice is making the bomber have 100% resists vs bomb damage of his race. Give it a 1 min reload time so that bombers can use this as part of thier intial alpha.

As always we look forward to these changes and testing this weekend

Black

Calistai Huranu
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.04.03 16:43:00 - [666]
 

At first i had dowt's on the new path of stealth bomber use, and tho i'll miss using cruise's, i can see me getting used to the new stealth bomber's very quickly, as many have said, it's not a solo ship, these as part of a cov op's team will be a riot, all it'll require is 3-5 SB's, arazu, falcon, and rapier respectively to ruin the unsuspecting's day, afterall it'll be the arazu's job to get the point on and agress the drone's, while the trusty falcon jam's and the rapier at long last has a reason to use it's TP bonus, and web a bit, while the SB's get to wtfbbg the target.

Hesperius
Posted - 2009.04.03 16:46:00 - [667]
 

Since they are taking the bomber class from us...

Mortar Class

Viskov Kyvarri
Posted - 2009.04.03 16:55:00 - [668]
 

Edited by: Viskov Kyvarri on 03/04/2009 16:58:37
Edited by: Viskov Kyvarri on 03/04/2009 16:56:43
Edited by: Viskov Kyvarri on 03/04/2009 16:55:59
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Hey Folks,

Quick update before the weekend:

There are some minor powergrid/cpu tweaks being tested on sisi with the next reboot.


We are putting a band-aid on a broken leg!

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
The general concept and feel with these adjustments is the choice between all out damage and ewar fits and survivability.


The original bomber had 'survivability' in the forms of RANGE and an effective CLOAK. But now we are offering you the ability to fight your targets within slapping distance. Instead of High survivability low sustained damage we would like to offer you kamakazi close range with 'high' burst that is completely unsustainable!

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
It is possible with the latest changes to choose a medium shield extender or 400mm plate


Here again we are giving you the illusion of 'survivability' Increase your sig radius or aligntime, and stave off the invetiable by a WHOLE 2 seconds longer!

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
for example but you will find it difficult to fit and benefit from T2 sieges and the benefits they bring for instance. Which fit and strategy you go for is up to you


Slighty expensive throw away fit - OR - Expensive throw away fitting!

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
We are much happier with what we have now and the choice given to you within the role of the glass cannon combined with secondary abilities of scout and such.


Because a cov-ops without a probe launcher makes for a great scout and such.
Any pilot can use local and warp around at random..

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
These bombers now very much have a good place and role to fill in any gang. There is definitely a lot of winsauce with these and raw potential for the innovative amongst you.


M'hmmm.....


Originally by: CCP Chronotis
As a reminder, nothing is set in stone with these changes :)


Except we have already demonstrated otherwise... We pretty much have our hearts set on releasing this POS with the listed changes... Just thought we would come in here and let you bounce your ideas and voices off a brick wall... A sypathetic brick wall mind you. They aren't telling you GTFO they are simply telling you that they refuse to listen to any reasonable challenge or arguement for keeping the current ship as is, or chaning the proposed one so that it actually isn't a 40mil graphical effect.

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2009.04.03 17:38:00 - [669]
 

Originally by: DNSBLACK

3. Cloaking Delay - 15 seconds is a close window with lag and timing. Yes with a game that is in a va****and no lag this time would work. 5-8 sec delay would be more realistic and would make the counter for these ships be the destroyer, frigs, ceptors with the fast lock times. Lets not forget the drones will also prevent this re-cloak.



In general i agree with you but i'm not sure about the counter ships being dessies frigs and ceptors, someone only has to start locking you to prevent cloaking thus a battleship can prevent you cloaking just as easily as a ceptor and once that lock is gained even battleship class weapons were killing me quickly last night and cruisers were probably the worst.

5-8 sec delay gives people a chance to lock you while retaining the only tactic bar bombs that might save this monstrosity from blobdom.

Winterreign
Posted - 2009.04.03 17:44:00 - [670]
 

what the heck?

Noboby had a problem with the stealth bomber's damage out put, everyone was happy with it.

It wasn't the stealth bombers damage ability that people had a problem with it was the fact that you had to A. wait 30 secconds after decloak and B. Sig raidus.

Dropping the damage output by 5% truely does being to shove this frigate over into the realm of worthless! The only hope you had as getting off enough burst damage.

Give us back out 20% dmg per level!

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2009.04.03 17:49:00 - [671]
 

Originally by: Calistai Huranu
At first i had dowt's on the new path of stealth bomber use, and tho i'll miss using cruise's, i can see me getting used to the new stealth bomber's very quickly, as many have said, it's not a solo ship, these as part of a cov op's team will be a riot, all it'll require is 3-5 SB's, arazu, falcon, and rapier respectively to ruin the unsuspecting's day, afterall it'll be the arazu's job to get the point on and agress the drone's, while the trusty falcon jam's and the rapier at long last has a reason to use it's TP bonus, and web a bit, while the SB's get to wtfbbg the target.


Whoo hoo cloaky gank blob

Assuming 5 bombers, arazu, falcon and rapier can you please tell me what 8 person combat squad you would take on or would you only engage if you had superior numbers?

8 T1 cruisers camping a gate would eat this squad alive.

Murashu
Liberal Frontier Enterprises
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2009.04.03 17:57:00 - [672]
 

I only had a few minutes to play with my hound before going back to work but I will say this. I do not like it in it's current status. The covert ops cloak is a long overdue addition to the only ship class in the game with "Stealth" in the name lol. I'm doing 900 damage per volley against a domi with 60% resists and have to be under 20km from the target to hit. The 11.77 sec firing rate is nice but seriously...a glass cannon that has to be within 20km of the target for mediocre DPS? The glass part is perfect, we just need to work on the cannon part now Confused

Fzhal
Caldari
Retribution. Inc.
E-P-O-C-H
Posted - 2009.04.03 18:01:00 - [673]
 

Edited by: Fzhal on 03/04/2009 18:02:31
So just to clarify.

Are you able to cloak as long as they have not finished locking yet?

OR

Once they start targeting you you can no longer cloak?

Murashu: How good are your skills with missiles and Cov. Ops?

Saibin Gias
No Trademark
Posted - 2009.04.03 18:02:00 - [674]
 

Originally by: Murashu
I only had a few minutes to play with my hound before going back to work but I will say this. I do not like it in it's current status. The covert ops cloak is a long overdue addition to the only ship class in the game with "Stealth" in the name lol. I'm doing 900 damage per volley against a domi with 60% resists and have to be under 20km from the target to hit. The 11.77 sec firing rate is nice but seriously...a glass cannon that has to be within 20km of the target for mediocre DPS? The glass part is perfect, we just need to work on the cannon part now Confused


900 per volley vs 60% resist implies 1500 raw volley damage. This seems incredibly low from what I've been seeing. What is your cov-ops and missile skills at? Was the dominix moving, painted, etc?

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2009.04.03 18:09:00 - [675]
 

Originally by: Fzhal
Edited by: Fzhal on 03/04/2009 18:02:31
So just to clarify.

Are you able to cloak as long as they have not finished locking yet?

OR

Once they start targeting you you can no longer cloak?

Murashu: How good are your skills with missiles and Cov. Ops?


Choice 2 - Once they start targeting you you can no longer cloak.

RedSplat
Posted - 2009.04.03 18:15:00 - [676]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Bombs

We are looking at increasing the batch count from 3 to 20 per manufacturing run. This means the material cost of bombs will be near 800k using current TQ prices.



Good price to have bombs at, good start as far as un-nerfing them.

Perhaps you could examine increasing bomb damage vs' LARGE targets like towers/ancorables and capitals (and to a lesser degree BS), while leaving damage to smaller targets as it is currently?


But, please take into account that Lowsec has no recourse to defeating the blob other than bringing an EVEN LARGER fleet.

I stand by my asertation that no bomb use in lowsec is nonsensical and that bombs would find thier niche in lowsec and be a valuable addition to the game in tha area, adding variety and tactical choices rather than detracting from the game and favouring bland faceless 'balls of death' where the only valid tactic is to bring a larger fleet or snipe.

Please also consider:

in 0.0 SB's will be able to hurl bombs AND Torps, SB's will be shafted as far as burst damage output in Lowsec by comparrison.


DNSBLACK
Gallente
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2009.04.03 18:17:00 - [677]
 

Originally by: yani dumyat
Originally by: DNSBLACK

3. Cloaking Delay - 15 seconds is a close window with lag and timing. Yes with a game that is in a va****and no lag this time would work. 5-8 sec delay would be more realistic and would make the counter for these ships be the destroyer, frigs, ceptors with the fast lock times. Lets not forget the drones will also prevent this re-cloak.



In general i agree with you but i'm not sure about the counter ships being dessies frigs and ceptors, someone only has to start locking you to prevent cloaking thus a battleship can prevent you cloaking just as easily as a ceptor and once that lock is gained even battleship class weapons were killing me quickly last night and cruisers were probably the worst.

5-8 sec delay gives people a chance to lock you while retaining the only tactic bar bombs that might save this monstrosity from blobdom.



I am going to disagree. The locking process does not prevent you from recloaking. What you may be seeing is the lag of the locking process. When in reality you are already locked. The other thing pilots dont take into account are the drones may have them lock quicker. that is what the BS will rely on to save there but.

1. The solution would be to lower our sig radius on the bomber and change the cloaking delay to 5-8 sec.

2. Flexability- proto type and tech 2 cloaks if used allow no recloak dely. the cov op cloak allows 5-8 sec delay.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.04.03 18:26:00 - [678]
 

Originally by: Saggy Glands
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Responding to the most frequent suggestions in the last few pages:

However we believe the vast majority of pilots would and will prefer the new role and the handful who are left preferring the old role in a ship that as we originally stated had missed our original intention for the bomber class would be left happy but we would have a ship class rarely used and a victim of legacy.


Nice you believe that, however the threads in the assembly hall consisting of actual SB pilots is more valuable than your unfounded beliefs. Increase the ship's effectiveness against smaller targets and they would be happy. It would then no longer be 'rarely used.'

Don't you think that the opinion of those pilots is more important than your 'beliefs?' Of course not, after all you're a game designer. So ignore the players who just wanted their broken boat fixed and implement your hair brained uncloak and insta-die idea.
So it looks like Chronotis is failing the common sense test.

It costs CCP nothing to add a new ship to database. There are no disadvantages, just potential advantages. Only out of pure stubborness and unwillingness to follow logic would a game designer choose to delete another ship design (that wasn't upsetting game balance) as he adds a new one, instead of simply adding a new one and not deleting anything.

It's same thing as deleting all tier 1 battleships with introduction of tier 3 battleships, claiming that the desiger finally figured out how he wanted battleships to be.

Maybe we should let programmers do game design, at least they tend to be more logical.

Eigof Tahr
Dirt Nap Squad
Posted - 2009.04.03 18:35:00 - [679]
 


Originally by: yani dumyat
Originally by: DNSBLACK

3. Cloaking Delay - 15 seconds is a close window with lag and timing. Yes with a game that is in a va****and no lag this time would work. 5-8 sec delay would be more realistic and would make the counter for these ships be the destroyer, frigs, ceptors with the fast lock times. Lets not forget the drones will also prevent this re-cloak.



In general i agree with you but i'm not sure about the counter ships being dessies frigs and ceptors, someone only has to start locking you to prevent cloaking thus a battleship can prevent you cloaking just as easily as a ceptor and once that lock is gained even battleship class weapons were killing me quickly last night and cruisers were probably the worst.

5-8 sec delay gives people a chance to lock you while retaining the only tactic bar bombs that might save this monstrosity from blobdom.


If you don't know how cloaking works, get out of this thread, you clearly have never flown a stealth bomber or any cloaking ship in combat.

You can't cloak once someone has locked on. Standard, across the board for all cloaks.

I like the idea of giving bombers immunity to bombs. Problems with bombs currently:
1. Cost -being addressed with batch change
2. Danger to self - Limited window of cloaking/warping off before you get blown up yourself
3. Danger to other bombers - Now with the short range, you will most likely kill your buddies more than the enemy -until changed, I will expect bombs to be used less.
(Side story: currently bomb tactics in ops involves a close range bomb dropper while rest of gang is at range (30km-150km), safely outside the bomb range. With the new changes there will no longer be that range buffer.)
4. Too difficult to aim effectively, perhaps let us target fire and free fire, but it still wouldn't change course once fired. This would enable several bombers to "aim" together a little easier. A moving target would probably still be outside the explosion range of the bomb, but stationary targets could be hit more accuratly.
5. Possible issue with dmg on SISI compared to TQ

Murashu
Liberal Frontier Enterprises
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2009.04.03 18:44:00 - [680]
 

Originally by: Saibin Gias

900 per volley vs 60% resist implies 1500 raw volley damage. This seems incredibly low from what I've been seeing. What is your cov-ops and missile skills at? Was the dominix moving, painted, etc?



Cov-ops 4, Torp 3, All the other missile skills that would effect torp damage are lvl 3. This has been one of my complaints...switching from cruise to torpedos robs us of 20+ days of skill training for a new weapon system. CCP Please perform a new character copy soon Razz

The domi was sitting still and a single named target painter. 900 damage every 11ish seconds is bleh, having to be under 20km and inside scrambling range is a killjoy for me.

The cov-ops cloaking is freakin awesome though. Again, I have no idea why this was never done before considering the lack of DPS we have.

Range used to be our only defense, now it shall be warping out before the target lock. The domi pilot was locking me just over 15 seconds which gives you enough time to send in one volley (900 damage), launch another volley and be locked before it impacted the target. I tried timing the recloak just as the 2nd volley hit but I would be locked before then.

Fzhal
Caldari
Retribution. Inc.
E-P-O-C-H
Posted - 2009.04.03 18:46:00 - [681]
 

Edited by: Fzhal on 03/04/2009 18:50:40
Originally by: Eigof Tahr

Originally by: yani dumyat
Originally by: DNSBLACK

3. Cloaking Delay - 15 seconds is a close window with lag and timing. Yes with a game that is in a va****and no lag this time would work. 5-8 sec delay would be more realistic and would make the counter for these ships be the destroyer, frigs, ceptors with the fast lock times. Lets not forget the drones will also prevent this re-cloak.



In general i agree with you but i'm not sure about the counter ships being dessies frigs and ceptors, someone only has to start locking you to prevent cloaking thus a battleship can prevent you cloaking just as easily as a ceptor and once that lock is gained even battleship class weapons were killing me quickly last night and cruisers were probably the worst.

5-8 sec delay gives people a chance to lock you while retaining the only tactic bar bombs that might save this monstrosity from blobdom.


If you don't know how cloaking works, get out of this thread, you clearly have never flown a stealth bomber or any cloaking ship in combat.

You can't cloak once someone has locked on. Standard, across the board for all cloaks.

I like the idea of giving bombers immunity to bombs. Problems with bombs currently:
1. Cost -being addressed with batch change
2. Danger to self - Limited window of cloaking/warping off before you get blown up yourself
3. Danger to other bombers - Now with the short range, you will most likely kill your buddies more than the enemy -until changed, I will expect bombs to be used less.
(Side story: currently bomb tactics in ops involves a close range bomb dropper while rest of gang is at range (30km-150km), safely outside the bomb range. With the new changes there will no longer be that range buffer.)
4. Too difficult to aim effectively, perhaps let us target fire and free fire, but it still wouldn't change course once fired. This would enable several bombers to "aim" together a little easier. A moving target would probably still be outside the explosion range of the bomb, but stationary targets could be hit more accuratly.
5. Possible issue with dmg on SISI compared to TQ


Even though you told me to GTFO I will stick around and add something important that you missed, concerning bombs.

Bombs can be shot down and take damage. Thus, 2 bombers of different races drop bombs at the same target. The first bomb to go off destroys the second bomb and it does no damage! Bombs only have resistance to the same damage type they do. So you are penalized because the bombers only have bonuses to ONE DAMAGE TYPE.

If using the same type of bombs then the second bomb to go off will destroy the third and subsequent bombs that are incoming.

This should be changed. Bombs should be immune to other bomb damage.

Wilson Cole
The Freelancer's Mining Cartel
Camorra Mortale
Posted - 2009.04.03 19:00:00 - [682]
 

I'm certain by now this is just flogging a dead horse, however I cannot be assed to read through all the many responses, so I'll simply add my two cents while remaining ignorant of the current status of the discussion.


Why should anyone fly a ship, regardless of however powerful it may be, that will be destroyed 9/10 times its flown?

I LOVE stealth bombers. They are practically all I fly right now. The entire survivability of the SB is based on two things, stealth and range. When you remove these two and give nothing to supplement them, you're putting SB pilots in Coffins. You call it a glass cannon, it may as well be a glass coffin. Sure they may have the dps of a battleship, but they can be alpha'd to death by anything larger than a t1 frigate. Which means any random ship in an enemy fleet could see you decloak and essentially rid your fleet of a BS worth of firepower in one cycle of their weapons. Instant Primary.

In what possible scenario does a SB pilot survive to fire a 2nd or 3rd volley unless his target is killed?
Don't ruin what is essentially among the most risky and unique fleet roles in the game. If you want to fix something, make bombs useful and affordable. Or create a Torpedo Boat as a class of ship if you're wanting to have this sort of ship. At least give those of use who have trained their cruise missiles entirely for this ship a break.

Saggy Glands
Amalgamated Transport And Trade
Posted - 2009.04.03 19:43:00 - [683]
 

Originally by: Wilson Cole

Why should anyone fly a ship, regardless of however powerful it may be, that will be destroyed 9/10 times its flown?



Because some horrible game designer says you should. When he asked for feedback what he really meant to say was, "Instead of fixing your broken boat with one minor change to explosion velocity, I am instead going to give you a whole new broken boat. It's new role will to be uncloak next to a battleship in an enemy fleet and die instantly to drone aggro or that new guy in his T1 frigate. Please feel free to say whatever you want about this but be forewarned. YOU WILL BE TALKING TO THE HAND!"

Originally by: Wilson Cole
The entire survivability of the SB is based on two things, stealth and range. When you remove these two and give nothing to supplement them, you're putting SB pilots in Coffins. You call it a glass cannon, it may as well be a glass coffin. Sure they may have the dps of a battleship, but they can be alpha'd to death by anything larger than a t1 frigate. Which means any random ship in an enemy fleet could see you decloak and essentially rid your fleet of a BS worth of firepower in one cycle of their weapons. Instant Primary.



I would digress in one regard. Besides the range and cloak one of the things that gave the old SB survivability was it's speed when cloaked. A week ago I had some ships jumped up to 0.0 and followed in a SB. I ended up loading 15k away from a vagabond in a bubble. I lived solely because of the speed when cloaked. Can't do that anymore.

All the SB needed was was was a boost to explosion velocity to fix the ship and give it a useful role. As this pudding head dev is ignoring the feedback he asked for and is going to push this through anyhow, I suggest he get in contact with the art department and change the ship graphic to the shape of a coffin. The Amarr one can even be a shiny golden coffin. That in fact might be the only reason to fly one, style points.

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2009.04.03 19:45:00 - [684]
 

Originally by: yani dumyat

Choice 2 - Once they start targeting you you can no longer cloak.


Originally by: DNSBLACK

I am going to disagree. The locking process does not prevent you from recloaking.


Apologies for any confusion caused, in testing this appeared to be the case however i stand corrected.

Originally by: Eigof Tahr

If you don't know how cloaking works, get out of this thread, you clearly have never flown a stealth bomber or any cloaking ship in combat.

You can't cloak once someone has locked on. Standard, across the board for all cloaks.



The emo is strong in this one, please ensure he is kept away from sharp objects to prevent self harm.

Yeshmiel
Posted - 2009.04.03 20:02:00 - [685]
 

I wish that CCP fully appreciated the gravity of what they are proposing. Well in all fairness they do. They even made note of the "skill point loss" whining in one of their earlier posts... are you kidding me? I often times, as a new player, pay for an account I rarely play because I am new to the game(6 months or so), behind the curve in skill points and so have been patiently training skills to make myself a viable player, since the game is so focused on PvP and without adequate skills a person gets popped. So I have been training CoVoPs. A good deal of my play time has been focused on training missile and ewar skills in order to make flying this ship viable and they are going to change it's role all together? I wouldn't say that being upset about losing four months of my life and 4 months worth of cash for two accounts for a game I am just now able to play trivial. I am offended almost to the point of canceling both of my accounts. I have patiently run missions and mined, both of which are mind numbingly tedious, waiting for the skills to be able to get into the stealth bomber I have read so much about and trained so hard for only to have it changed into a gang ship. I personally prefer to play solo and always have. This is irresponsible and brazen. I agree with most of the posters here that there needs to be a new class of ship for the proposed role of ship that CCP is trying to change the SBer to. Use some of the money I have wasted training worthless skills to develop a new ship and leave the SB alone please.

Eigof Tahr
Dirt Nap Squad
Posted - 2009.04.03 20:07:00 - [686]
 

Originally by: yani dumyat
Originally by: yani dumyat

Choice 2 - Once they start targeting you you can no longer cloak.


Originally by: DNSBLACK

I am going to disagree. The locking process does not prevent you from recloaking.


Apologies for any confusion caused, in testing this appeared to be the case however i stand corrected.

Originally by: Eigof Tahr

If you don't know how cloaking works, get out of this thread, you clearly have never flown a stealth bomber or any cloaking ship in combat.

You can't cloak once someone has locked on. Standard, across the board for all cloaks.



The emo is strong in this one, please ensure he is kept away from sharp objects to prevent self harm.


Not emo, just a belief that if you don't know what you are talking about, stop talking. Would you want someone with no kids telling you how to raise yours? Nope.

On the topic of the bombs again:
99.999999% resistance of the bomb to its own damage type allows for something in the range of (easily) 6-7 bombs of the same type from going off before destroying another bomb. So used in a coordinated fleet, there is no problem.

The greater threat is the bomb to other bombers, not to other bombs.

Ryan Brabovski
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.04.03 20:11:00 - [687]
 

Just tried it out on sisi. I think the Nemesis is broken. I had the inferno torps, warhead calefaction rigs, 2x BCS II and I was hitting battleships for 120 dmg. I shot at an abandoned Ishkur and hit it for 90 dmg. >.<

Sean Drake
Caldari
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2009.04.03 21:25:00 - [688]
 

3 Years waiting for some love and this is what you come up with ShockedSadEmbarassedVery HappyRolling Eyes

Seriously just delete them put them out of there misery now because this is looking like you managed to actually find a way to make them worse.

oh and I have SB lvl5 and still try to find a use for these everytime they get a Cough*Boost*cough but me thinks I need to accept it's dead sp now.

JVol
Amarr
The IMorral MAjority
Posted - 2009.04.03 21:44:00 - [689]
 

Edited by: JVol on 03/04/2009 21:49:41
Edited by: JVol on 03/04/2009 21:47:32
CCP is going to basically make a buzzard with torps... Since when did you guys start drinking AT work?

CCP Chronotis
Leave the ship alone untill you have personally acheved 100 kills in one as they sit. Be that with bombs, or missiles.

Your taking away the cloaked speed bonus and giving a huge reloaking time compared to the one i whittled down with lvl 5 cloaking. Have you ever bombed?

I have 40 kills with just bombs, and without the ability to launch, and reloak, pulse the mwd and be NOWHERE near where i was when i launched is the only reason i can evade drone dragging intys or any other fast movers trying to uncloak me. Bombings hard enough WITH these advatages, wtf do you think your doing to enhance bombing with these changes?

Or my ability to jump into a HUGE gate camp, pulse mwd, cloak and get into position to bomb or get ontop of their falc's positions without fast movers getting me, or letting me get out of bubbles and gtfo alive. This ship NEEDS its 'little' bits of stealth and speed to survive. I dont test on sissi, i test on tranq, ive spent over a billion isk in bombs and ships (SB's), I KNOW what im talking about.

IMO, ditch the covert cloak, you will KILL the buzzard if you dont. No need to fly a buzzard when a manti with a core launcher will do all its functions and have bite


Add torps and a damage bonus that favors large sig radiused targets to crz and torps to the current ship(As opposed to ANY bonus that may make the pilot think for one second he should be shooting at fast small targets), double the speed bonus when cloaked.


then STEP AWAY FROM MY BOMBER!

Thenoran
Caldari
Tranquility Industries
Posted - 2009.04.03 21:48:00 - [690]
 

Originally by: Ryan Brabovski
Just tried it out on sisi. I think the Nemesis is broken. I had the inferno torps, warhead calefaction rigs, 2x BCS II and I was hitting battleships for 120 dmg. I shot at an abandoned Ishkur and hit it for 90 dmg. >.<


0_0, 120 damage...? The only damage reduction on a Battleship should come from resists.
With good skills and rigs/BCUs you should be able to get 4-5k of volley damage unresisted.


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