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Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2009.03.28 19:51:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Ig Neus
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Ig Neus
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Personally I take large ACs over large blasters any day. With ambit rigs, you get quite good range out of them (shooting in the first 66% or so of falloff still yields quite okay damage), they use no cap, the damage is not totally horrible as it is with arties, and they track quite well, especially when considering the range that they can hit at.
Of course they are outclassed by large pulse lasers atm, but that is not because ACs are crap, but because large pulse lasers are decidedly good if not even overpowered.


That must be the reasons that Tempests and Maelstroms are used more than Megathrons. Oh wait, they are not :)


Which has virtually nothing to do with ACs and everything to do with other factors such as Gallente being trained up by twice as many people as Minmatar in the first place, Megas being the superior snipers, the minnie ships only having 5 and 6 lowslots which kinda sucks for the armortanking required in most PvP situations, EFT-junkies who only fit for dps with total disregard to anything else, and of course people being lemmings or plain silly.


Yes, it is everything except the fact that Gankathrons do much more damage than Minmatar Battleships at close range, they have the same tracking and they do more damage with Null than Minmatar with Barrage up to over 20kms, have better tank ect ect. I am sure about it.

Autocannons are great on smaller ship classes where being fast and fighting in the falloff actually is useful.

P.S. 0 Minmatar skills (ship/weapon) to BS IV and Large AC spec IV is less than 70 days for me. Crosstraining for people already flying Battleships (aka having good support skills as well) is not a big deal unless we takl about training a completely new weapon system or new tanking skills as well.


Ok, let me burst some more bubbles:

EFT stats for full gank fits:

Megathron: 7* Neutron II, 3 MFS-II, no weapon in the last high coz there won't be CPU with most setups
Tempest: 6*800mm II, 2* SiegeII, 3 Gyro-II

DPS with just shipboard weapons and high damage T2 ammo: 949 on the Mega and 995 on the Tempest.
DPS with Faction ammo and just shipboard weapons (coz noone uses T2 high damage): 935 on the Mega and 898 on the Tempest.
DPS with long range T2 ammo and just shipboard weapons: 745 on the Mega and 768 on the Tempest
And according to damage graphs the Mega can only compete out to about 19km range, not over 20km.

Now when you bring drones and faction ammo into play, the Mega does get 1262 over 1108 dps, but you cannot really say ACs suck because the Mega has a bigger dronebay and Minmatar T1 and faction high damage ammo does 9% less than the other races'?

Now you might say the siege launchers skew the picture and you are probably right, but the Mega has 7 gun slots and the tempest only 6, so there has to be some compensation, and the number of slots on a ship is again nothing that makes or breaks a weapon system. But just for the record, one Neutron II on above Mega with void does 136 dps, while one 800mm-II on above Tempest with Hail does 139. Changes with faction ammo, but see above. Blasters outtrack the ACs, but ACs outrange the Blasters
In the end a comparison is never 100% conclusive because of too many variables, but imho both weapon systems are relatively in line with each other, I just value the added range and no cap of ACs higher than the better dps with useful gank ammo and the better tracking of Blasters.

EFT Warrior
Posted - 2009.03.28 19:59:00 - [32]
 

The Matari philosophy of move fast and dictate range doesn't work very well with big, slow moving ships, because although you outrun your counterparts, it doesn't matter much because they can still hit you further than you can hit them, and it's nigh impossible to outtrack battleship guns in another battleship sans Tracking Disrupters.

Just remember that EFT isn't everything (unless you're me) and you don't have to do the most damage, just more damage than the other guy.

Admittedly this has been hard to do in a battleship, and I've proposed before to give a raw increase to falloff for Minmatar guns, specifically artillery, because as it stands there's nowhere that Matari have the advantage at battleship size, unlike every other sized ship class where each ship type from each race has a distinct advantage at a certain range and/or speed (often you have Caldari at long ranges; Amarr at medium ranges but high dps, compensated for lower tracking; Matari at medium ranges with lower dps but better tracking; and Gallente with the highest damage up close). As it is, Minmatar large artillery neither outrange, outtrack or outdps its counterparts, with the only current advantage being alpha strike, effective at fleet sizes large enough to have a group of minmatar ships alpha a battleship before reps can be put on it, but small enough that the other enemy fleet can't do the same thing (a very niche area).

Increasing falloff would work well, as you do not increase the raw DPS of Minmatar, but they will retain a range advantage with artillery (even if it's just scratching paint at 250km), one that doesn't outrange missiles or hybrids

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.03.28 20:07:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: AstroPhobic on 28/03/2009 20:31:33
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 28/03/2009 20:23:17
You can't use a tempest with siege launchers to compare to a megathron. Not only are you very very low on PG by then, but you have practically no tank compared to the megathron.

ed: also, tempest is double damage bonused in comparison to the megathron. The tempest has 10 effective turrets, the mega has 8.75. You then added 2 siege launchers, giving it 10 turrets + 2 launchers vs 8.75 effective for the mega.

Not really a fair comparison.

Double ed: You also left out drones, which gives the mega an even larger advantage.

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2009.03.28 20:19:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: AstroPhobic
You can't use a tempest with siege launchers to compare to a megathron. Not only are you very very low on PG by then, but you have practically no tank compared to the megathron.


The PG doesn't seem to be much of a problem, it fits perfectly fine. And the tank is only one lowslot weaker. Also I am not trying to compare the Tempest to the Mega, I am trying to compare ACs to blasters and making a point that large ACs are not as weak as people make them out to be. What is weak is the Minnie T1 and faction ammo, and possibly the ships themselves.

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.03.28 20:47:00 - [35]
 

If you're going to compare weapons - compare weapons.

If you're going to compare ships - compare ships. Don't do some half-assed in-between thing. As it stands, the fits compared to each other make the tempest look sad.

Pest - 80.4K EHP, 1108 DPS @ 3+20, Siege at 20km (17km).

Mega - 102.2k EHP, 1252 DPS (+1 Offline SB) @ 4.5 + 13.

Pest has an open mid for TD or whatever you like.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.03.28 21:55:00 - [36]
 

Autocannons would be pretty bad if the best Minmatar ships didn't have double damage bonuses - rate of fire and damage.

And minmatar ships have easier time fitting high end guns without grid or CPU problems.

Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
death from above..
Posted - 2009.03.28 21:58:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: AstroPhobic
If you're going to compare weapons - compare weapons.

If you're going to compare ships - compare ships. Don't do some half-assed in-between thing. As it stands, the fits compared to each other make the tempest look sad.

Pest - 80.4K EHP, 1108 DPS @ 3+20, Siege at 20km (17km).

Mega - 102.2k EHP, 1252 DPS (+1 Offline SB) @ 4.5 + 13.

Pest has an open mid for TD or whatever you like.



What setups are these? A riged Mega vs an unriged Tempest? I get 992 DPS with 99k EHP from a Tempest. That doesn't sound that bad, does it? And I don't have to downgrade my medslots and I don't have to leave the last hi empty to make it all fit and I have a spare med slot for whatever (enough CPU/PG to spare).

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.03.28 22:17:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: AstroPhobic
If you're going to compare weapons - compare weapons.

If you're going to compare ships - compare ships. Don't do some half-assed in-between thing. As it stands, the fits compared to each other make the tempest look sad.

Pest - 80.4K EHP, 1108 DPS @ 3+20, Siege at 20km (17km).

Mega - 102.2k EHP, 1252 DPS (+1 Offline SB) @ 4.5 + 13.

Pest has an open mid for TD or whatever you like.



What setups are these? A riged Mega vs an unriged Tempest? I get 992 DPS with 99k EHP from a Tempest. That doesn't sound that bad, does it? And I don't have to downgrade my medslots and I don't have to leave the last hi empty to make it all fit and I have a spare med slot for whatever (enough CPU/PG to spare).


This is using autos and siege like Leandro suggested. Using 3x damage mods for both ships. Will post fits if you absolutely need to, but nothing out of the ordinary. Both ships rigged.

Zaran Darkstar
Divine Slaves
Posted - 2009.03.28 22:55:00 - [39]
 

AC suck but Blasters suck more Cool

Shereza
Posted - 2009.03.29 04:07:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Azirapheal
amarr battleships to use an example sport powergrids MASSIVELY above anyone else. my abaddon having grid in excess of 30k with skills and fittings, and can still barely fit a rack of the guns its intended to use (ok so tach 2's are extreme but still)




Just to make a minor observation but that's not quite true. While the armageddon has almost double the base grid of the dominix and scorpion it has only 33% more than the typhoon. The apocalypse has double the grid of the raven and only, roughly, 33% more grid than the tempest and megathron. The abaddon, however, only has 40% more grid than the rokh and hyperion (which interestingly only has 750mw over the rokh for some reason) and actually ties with the maelstrom for base power grid.

The apocalypse and armageddon do have more grid than other ships in their classes, significantly more in some cases, but the abaddon which you specifically mentioned is actually tied by a minmatar ship of all things and a shield-tanked minmatar ship at that.

Jack Coutu
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
Posted - 2009.03.29 04:44:00 - [41]
 

All weapons have their uses. DPS isn't everything, it's how it's delivered and how much danger you are in whilst piling it onto a target that counts. I can orbit an BS, BC or cruiser in an Ishtar at 26km and point them, 24 with a t2 wd instead of a faction, and let my drones hit them. If I choose to leave I can leave, if I slip up and get neuted, I can GTFO. If someone small gets at me, neut, drones, pop. They won't catch me, but I have to choose targets.

But there are several ships I'd rather not engage, and a few can use AC's. Not sure why you'd assume DPS is king of weapons, but just to let you know, blasters are damn hard to use right.

AC's basically are limited, just like everything else.

Therran Promitz
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.29 08:08:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Jack Coutu
All weapons have their uses. DPS isn't everything, it's how it's delivered and how much danger you are in whilst piling it onto a target that counts. I can orbit an BS, BC or cruiser in an Ishtar at 26km and point them, 24 with a t2 wd instead of a faction, and let my drones hit them. If I choose to leave I can leave, if I slip up and get neuted, I can GTFO. If someone small gets at me, neut, drones, pop. They won't catch me, but I have to choose targets.

But there are several ships I'd rather not engage, and a few can use AC's. Not sure why you'd assume DPS is king of weapons, but just to let you know, blasters are damn hard to use right.

AC's basically are limited, just like everything else.


Then in what situation would ACs be used?

welsh wizard
0utbreak
KrautbreaK
Posted - 2009.03.29 10:31:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Shereza
...The abaddon, however, only has 40% more grid than the rokh and hyperion (which interestingly only has 750mw over the rokh for some reason) and actually ties with the maelstrom for base power grid.


425mm II's are really power hungry compared to large blasters and AC's (hype is a blaster boat and male is an AC boat). Can't fit 8 425 II's to a rokh without a fitting mod.

Shereza
Posted - 2009.03.29 18:27:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Shereza on 29/03/2009 18:30:25
Originally by: welsh wizard
Originally by: Shereza
...The abaddon, however, only has 40% more grid than the rokh and hyperion (which interestingly only has 750mw over the rokh for some reason) and actually ties with the maelstrom for base power grid.


425mm II's are really power hungry compared to large blasters and AC's (hype is a blaster boat and male is an AC boat). Can't fit 8 425 II's to a rokh without a fitting mod.


Methinks there's a bit more to it than 425mm railguns as the hyperion needs a fitting mod to fit eight of them and a large repairer or more than a single 1600mm plate.

Edit: The fitting requirements for 425mm railguns might explain why the rokh has so much grid for a Caldari ship but I'm not sure it explains why the hyperion, a gallente ship, only has a skimpy 750mw over a Caldari boat. I suppose it makes sense, however, as the brutix has almost 7% more grid than the ferox while the thorax has roughly 5.13% more grid than the moa.

Happster
Polaris Project
Posted - 2009.03.29 19:19:00 - [45]
 

I get a litle tired of people adding siege launchers on the pest but not on the mega when comparing dps.
Yes, the Mega has launcher slots too. And i know, you need to fit a PG module or atleast a cpu module, but so what!
Minnie pilots are used to gimped setup to fit what is ment to fit. You are not able to fit thank+ac+torps on a pest without adding fitting modules. Yes i know, came as a shock to me too Shocked

NightmareX
Nomads
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.03.29 19:37:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: NightmareX on 29/03/2009 21:15:54
Nah, Autocannons are fine and are fun to use. It's not all about DPS. Only EFT warriors are going after who have the highest DPS.

But just remember, you need tons of skills in Autocannons & Gunnery before you can be any good with the Autocannons.

Tuncan
Minmatar
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2009.03.29 21:56:00 - [47]
 

ssshhhhh
WTF ARE YOU DOING?

Don't let people think matari ships are well balanced to other ( actually far more better for meh )
or it will be the FOTM. Just let people train amarr and just tank for thermal and em heh.

Okay back to topic
AC's suck
all matari ships suck
over.
Always train for amarr


Rogue Lilly
Caldari
Lords Of Filth
Posted - 2009.04.10 22:22:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Rogue Lilly on 10/04/2009 22:23:29
Originally by: Psiri
The ability to fight into fall-off allows you to reduce or even completely negate any inbound damage from the target ship. This is under assumption that you are faster, after webs and scramblers have been applied. Thankfully Minmatar ships (the only ones with projectile bonuses) are the fastest in their respective ship classes and usually sport enough mids to allow for a web.

Medium AC's are powerful aswell, large AC's or rather large projectiles in general are considered to be too weak by many. Then again so are large missiles and blasters.


why does everyone always talk about the "ability" to fight in fall-off like it's some huge advantage. Basically all autocannons are going to be shooting in fall-off which means you're doing half the actual damage of the numbers.

blasters are short range so they have short optimal, lasers are long range so they have long optimal, autocannons are medium range so they have.....short optimal.

You can't truly call autocannons mid ranged guns when they aren't. And to top that off they do the least damage. So they are short range-low damage, or if you prefer to use the HUGE advantage of fighting in your falloff they are mid range-minuscule damage.

fighting in your falloff is a disadvantage so please people stop pretending that AC falloff is some huge boon when in order to get the already lowest DPS that they claim you are within blaster range anyway.

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2009.04.10 22:32:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: kessah on 10/04/2009 22:37:50
Large AC's imho need a buff.

The Pest has 4 missle launcher points. Fit 4x 800mms AC's with Hail with max skills. no dm's.

Then fit 4x T2 Siege Launchers with Rage again no dmg mods and max skills.







...Yep you do 17 dps less with the siege than the biggest AC's and a double damage bonus. Medium and Small auto's seem to do ok though.

Large need a buff though imho.

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.04.10 23:25:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: kessah
Edited by: kessah on 10/04/2009 22:37:50
Large AC's imho need a buff.

The Pest has 4 missle launcher points. Fit 4x 800mms AC's with Hail with max skills. no dm's.

Then fit 4x T2 Siege Launchers with Rage again no dmg mods and max skills.







...Yep you do 17 dps less with the siege than the biggest AC's and a double damage bonus. Medium and Small auto's seem to do ok though.

Large need a buff though imho.


A falloff buff across the board would do a lot, to be honest.

It would benefit large projectiles the most, while perhaps giving medium and small autos the push they need to give minmatar a larger advantage in their biggest strength: roam and solo.

I'd also like arty given their alpha back (Double the ROF, double the dmg mod please Laughing), but I don't see it happening.

Horizon Taker
Helljumpers
Double Dietsch Rudders
Posted - 2009.04.11 00:50:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Traderboz
Originally by: arbiter reborn
if you look at the wepons systems without looking at the ships you put them on then yes acs are underpowerd, however all minmitar bs can get over 1k dps and the tempest is one the best solo bs bescause of both its wepon system and its utility slots


Because fitting Hail is a great idea.


I'd just like to point out that Hailstroms are ****ing amazing, so hush.

Emma Durham
Posted - 2009.04.11 00:53:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Emma Durham on 11/04/2009 01:34:04

It has been confirmed that Minmatar battleships suck, and that everyone should keep training Amarr, with their inferior tracking and effective DPS penalty versus Matari 60% EM armor resists.

Scorch L versus vanilla resists: 36*0.5 + 8*0.65 = 16.9 base damage.
Scorch L versus Matari resists: 36*0.4 + 8+0.65 = 14.65 base damage, or 13.3% less.

Funny how that kind of thing never comes up.

No sane Tempest pilot is going to go into neutron blaster range when fighting a Megathron, are you crazy? So you people can throw all that in the bin, too.

Now excuse me, I must go and train Your Mom's Battleship V, so I can come back later and feed my ego by writing endless pompous posts with one-dimensional statistical comparisons that overlook basic tactical considerations and/or game mechanics.

Oh, and I, too, am gay.

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.04.11 01:36:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Emma Durham
Edited by: Emma Durham on 11/04/2009 01:34:04

It has been confirmed that Minmatar battleships suck, and that everyone should keep training Amarr, with their inferior tracking and effective DPS penalty versus Matari 60% EM armor resists.

Scorch L versus vanilla resists: 36*0.5 + 8*0.65 = 16.9 base damage.
Scorch L versus Matari resists: 36*0.4 + 8+0.65 = 14.65 base damage, or 13.3% less.

Funny how that kind of thing never comes up.

No sane Tempest pilot is going to go into neutron blaster range when fighting a Megathron, are you crazy? So you people can throw all that in the bin, too.

Now excuse me, I must go and train Your Mom's Battleship V, so I can come back later and feed my ego by writing endless pompous posts with one-dimensional statistical comparisons that overlook basic tactical considerations and/or game mechanics.

Oh, and I, too, am gay.


Tri hardener setups, Resistance rigs, t2 resistances, hole filling...

Come back when you realize that not all stats come from unfitted ships.

HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
Posted - 2009.04.11 04:09:00 - [54]
 

i think its all been said.

small and medium ACs are great

large aren't too bad, you really have to make the few advantages work for you work for you though. otherwise you are better off with a torp/neut typhoon in most cases.
-no cap:(neut pest w/ plates is win, RR pest is nice, ac/cruise lol)
-tracking vs beams (hard to do with big slow ships)
-hitting that sweet spot in falloff vs blaster boat

HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
Posted - 2009.04.11 04:21:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Zaran Darkstar
AC suck but Blasters Artillery suck more Cool


fyp

across all the weapons platforms artillery is the only one that really sucks.

neither ACs nor blasters have it too bad, they just suck when you compare them to lasers.

I'm not trying to come off as a nightmarex 'if you are just awesome stats dont matter', that isn't true. I'm not saying one system or another couldn't use another look by ccp but the one thing some people just don't want to recognize is everything is situational.

The key to success in pvp has much more to do with understanding the situations, interpreting your place on the field and how to quickly act on your advantages over your enemy. Rarely does any fight come down to dps.


Sucked bone dry of cap? your lasers are officially irrelevant
Webbed to 15m/s? Your blasters aren't going to do much vs those battleships beating you up 30km away.
In a pure DPS slugout? then i hope you started overheating your autocannons long before your enemy did.

Emma Durham
Posted - 2009.04.11 09:51:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Emma Durham on 11/04/2009 10:09:50

Way OT, but hey it's Saturday!
Originally by: AstroPhobic

Tri hardener setups, Resistance rigs, t2 resistances, hole filling...

Come back when you realize that not all stats come from unfitted ships.


Eve ships have a natural omnitank because of how the resistances are reversed between shield and armour. So skewing that is only viable as a fitting strategy if you know what types of energy the other side will be shooting, i.e. for PvE. Resistance rigs fail to offer the same payoff for their drawbacks that buffer rigs do v.s. omnidamage. Did you know the stacking penalty applies between rigs and modules? It does.

T2 ships are the exception to this: they're set up to encourage either armour or shield tanks but not both. They're the only ships with a damage-type "hole"; it's created by their base resists being specialised. That doesn't mean fitting explosive armor hardeners to a Vagabond is a sensible fitting strategy, though - an Ishtar, maybe.

welsh wizard
0utbreak
KrautbreaK
Posted - 2009.04.11 11:03:00 - [57]
 

Flying a mega is simple, mwd -> approach -> shoot & tank - You win or lose based on the actions of the opposing pilot. The Mega pilots ability to captilize on any opportunity pre-fight also plays a big part in its success. It's strongest role is as an ambush ship.

The Tempest is different and is arguably harder to fly. During a fight its tactical considerations are many and the reaction times of its pilot play a major part. It needs to reside in a small window of operation when fighting a Megathron and slight error can result in a loss or its opponent escaping. Despite this it does have the initiative during a fight if it starts at its favoured range. It is faster and more manouverable and therefore it dictates the course of the fight, based on the pilots ability.

I personally feel the options are already availiable for the tempest although I definitely acknowledge that being a successful tempest pilot is difficult. I think the sticking point is general eve populace unwillingness to stray from gank/tank when discussing balance. These arguments tend to boil down to which ship has the greater brute force (balance of tank & gank). Gallente are, rightly, always going to win in that department. I mean look at the ops wording, hes already thrown the towel in because blasters do more damage. This encourages these arguments degenerate as the precedent has already been laid out.

So, the idea for buffing large autocannon fall-off or changing the tempests bonuses to this end. It would make it easier to fly against megathrons, theres no doubt about that. However there is more to consider than its ability to fight blaster ships when discussing balance.

You all know the score already, Minmatar can be the most deadly race but no-one said it was going to be easy. In a perverted way I think I like that fact.

Beverly Sparks
Posted - 2009.04.11 11:06:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Rogue Lilly
why does everyone always talk about the "ability" to fight in fall-off like it's some huge advantage. Basically all autocannons are going to be shooting in fall-off which means you're doing half the actual damage of the numbers.

blasters are short range so they have short optimal, lasers are long range so they have long optimal, autocannons are medium range so they have.....short optimal.

You can't truly call autocannons mid ranged guns when they aren't. And to top that off they do the least damage. So they are short range-low damage, or if you prefer to use the HUGE advantage of fighting in your falloff they are mid range-minuscule damage.

fighting in your falloff is a disadvantage so please people stop pretending that AC falloff is some huge boon when in order to get the already lowest DPS that they claim you are within blaster range anyway.


But you are missing something. Since optimal is nearly insignificant when using AC's, you can always have your High damage ammo loaded without significantly effecting your operating range.

If I was to try and fix Large AC's and Artillery I would.....

Increase damage multiplier of module as well as ROF, giving all of them more alpha. (like 1.5-2x as much)
Increase Falloff, to give them more range. (Especially on Artillery. Double would be acceptable)
Increase tracking.

Zolian
Murderous Impulse
Posted - 2009.04.11 11:38:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Shereza

Edit: The fitting requirements for 425mm railguns might explain why the rokh has so much grid for a Caldari ship but I'm not sure it explains why the hyperion, a gallente ship, only has a skimpy 750mw over a Caldari boat. I suppose it makes sense, however, as the brutix has almost 7% more grid than the ferox while the thorax has roughly 5.13% more grid than the moa.


It's a balancing factor for caldari close range: they lack the damage bonus and the large drone bays of the gallente ship, but have the advantage of being able to fit bigger guns with less sacrifice.
Gallente's damage bonus is good with railguns too, seems fair cald would get something for their close range.

Or it could be as simple as "Gallente pay in grid what they get in drone bay".

Anyway fitting oddities aren't just for Caldari. Check out the cpu on the myrm/domi, or the spare grid on some minnie ships after fitting acs (ie ruppie with 1600mm plate, mwd and med guns).

Speaking of oddities the hype has a 'hidden bonus' in the form of its cap size. It's larger than every other tier 3 battleship, even the 'baddon.

Misina Arlath
Amarr
Posted - 2009.04.11 11:41:00 - [60]
 

I've used all the Amarr turret sizes up to T2 large turrets, in both PvP and PvE. Yeah, lasers are awesome, no doubt. Then again I played Amarr since back when Amarr and lasers were the absolutely worst race and everyone flamed you for using anything but Punisher with Autocannons back then.

Anyways, I kept playing Amarr (always preferred the underdogs and not following mainstream hypes), but now I'm crosstraining to Minmatar ships and Projectile guns.

Madness? No, I actually love the projectile guns. Granted, I'm not using large projectiles (yet) and unsure wether I'm going to bother training up that far since I already have a mission running ship. Training T2 large turrets is very time consuming, as is training up battleships V again.

My experience so far though is close combat, high speed and superb tracking. With most Minny ships able to sport an extra med slot (which I've always been aching for as Amarr) it feels like a real breather. With my Rifter and Wolf I can easily take on larger ship sizes, and very easily shoot down any drones sent after me thanks to excellent tracking speed on AC's. I've even shot down Warrior II's in orbit around me.

Sure, the tank is smaller and the dps somewhat less on the minny boats, but I'm extremely satisfied with the performance of their frigate hulls so far in comparison to the Amarr ones. Yes, Punisher is an awesome and tough frigate, but the carefree attitude you can have when flying the Minny ships makes it alot more fun.

Then again, I suppose it all boils down to how you like flying. If you don't like facehugging, then you don't like projectiles. It's that simple really.

Lately I'm toying around with a Stabber with various results (due to lack of T2 turrets and barrage atm), but will be playing with the Rupture instead. Once Cruiser V is done it will unlock both Recon and HAC's for me and I can't wait to take a Vaga, Muninn or Huginn out for a spin!

Also played around with the Trasher, and yet again, the performance is excellent. I fit it with AC's for PvP and Arty for missions, and it's actually able to pull of L2 missions fairly easily (sometimes easier than when I did them with my Omen way back when).

But, as I said, not yet had the chance to tinker with the large projectiles, so I'll see how it pans out when I get that far. Since I have good skills in both missiles and gunnery I might actually fly the 'phoon for the fun of it ;)

Like I said, I prefer the underdog and going against the mainstream.


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