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Wyn Pharoh
Gallente
Deep Stage
THE-FEDERATION
Posted - 2009.03.27 21:26:00 - [961]
 

Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Originally by: Wyn Pharoh

.this meme is tiresome and an insult to every other player that is concerned about inappropriate measures taken to solve a problem that does have a pre-existing precedent to draw from.


When you add net content on a constant basis you will always have issues and decisions without precedent.



Too bad the initial decision by CCP stated that they acted UPON previous precedent. Reversal is an 'oops' precedent had more to it than we realized, and again, CCP is the ruling body here trying to interpret their own precedents. Trolling me to distract others off topic only muddies the waters. Rolling Eyes

Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.03.27 22:16:00 - [962]
 

Originally by: Wyn Pharoh

Too bad the initial decision by CCP stated that they acted UPON previous precedent. Reversal is an 'oops' precedent had more to it than we realized, and again, CCP is the ruling body here trying to interpret their own precedents. Trolling me to distract others off topic only muddies the waters. Rolling Eyes


You know this by fact? Is there any possibility, that given the hundreds of alliances and thousands of corps, that it may have happened?

No, I'm not trolling, go over my posts, I don't troll.

What's the topic again? Are you upset CCP reversed the decision, or were you upset they made the change? Because if you whined about the name change, why would anyone complain that CCP gave in and redacted?

Susan Kennedy
Gallente
Eddie Murphy Appreciation Society
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2009.03.27 22:17:00 - [963]
 

Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 27/03/2009 22:20:34
Originally by: Yarik Mendel
I think the bobbits are saying that Goons are mean Evil or Very Mad


Bobbits, you reap what you sow. Now you will be known for cheating twice, but thanks to the Goons, CCP corrected the mistake.


This is so delicious, NOTHING, will ever beat this.
Game Over bobbits.


Indeed - Congratulations to the Goons for standing firm on this one - proving why CCP hate them so much.

Also congratulations to all the corps and alliances who petitioned to have their names changed under the same rules as BOB/Bobba/Kengurner did. The firestorm which would have descended when these petitions were refused would only be equal to that of the firestorm which would have arose if they had been accepted

It goes to show the CSM isnt needed to ensure CCP act fairly in their descision making. Just a united player base demanding equal rights.

Kennedy.

nuance rasam
Posted - 2009.03.27 22:50:00 - [964]
 

Edited by: nuance rasam on 27/03/2009 22:52:33
Originally by: Yarik Mendel
I think the bobbits are saying that Goons are mean Evil or Very Mad


Bobbits, you reap what you sow. Now you will be known for cheating twice, but thanks to the Goons, CCP corrected the mistake.


This is so delicious, NOTHING, will ever beat this.
Game Over bobbits.


Moron spotted ugh

Originally by: Vincent Gaines

If BoB gets a ship back through petition, it's cheating.
If BoB wins a fleet battle, it's cheating.
If BoB gets a new name, it's cheating.

all because of the t20 incident, BoB has been, in a way, at a disadvantage when it comes to PR. Any favorable decision on petitions by GMs, or favorable actions since then, no matter how significant to the gameplay, has been assaulted with wild accusations of cheating, iternal favoritism, etc.




Yep. Funny how filing a petition and CCP screwing all of this up is Bob cheating.

Letting goons hold the previous Bob name hostage isn't cheating, even though this has been disallowed in the past. Confused

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2009.03.27 22:53:00 - [965]
 

I punted. Before this resolution was put in effect, I submitted a petition to fix my misspelled first name, referring to this alliance name change as precedent. As expected, my petition was declined, but the GM indicated that CCP is looking at offering name change for corps, alliances and characters as a for-pay service in the not too distant future.

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.27 22:56:00 - [966]
 

Originally by: nuance rasam
Originally by: Yarik Mendel
I think the bobbits are saying that Goons are mean Evil or Very Mad


Bobbits, you reap what you sow. Now you will be known for cheating twice, but thanks to the Goons, CCP corrected the mistake.


This is so delicious, NOTHING, will ever beat this.
Game Over bobbits.


Moron spotted ugh



It's best to ignore these types of people, they are just the simple mob mentality and when Bob's name is mentioned we must have cheated. Wink

Bob can do no right, Goonswarm can do no wrong.

Lexa Hellfury
Immortal.
Posted - 2009.03.27 23:14:00 - [967]
 

tbh I think they just realized that Band of Brothers Reloaded was actually a worse name than KenZoku (I know, right? I didn't think it was possible either)

Wyn Pharoh
Gallente
Deep Stage
THE-FEDERATION
Posted - 2009.03.28 00:01:00 - [968]
 

Edited by: Wyn Pharoh on 28/03/2009 00:01:57
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Originally by: Wyn Pharoh

Too bad the initial decision by CCP stated that they acted UPON previous precedent. Reversal is an 'oops' precedent had more to it than we realized, and again, CCP is the ruling body here trying to interpret their own precedents. Trolling me to distract others off topic only muddies the waters. Rolling Eyes


You know this by fact? Is there any possibility, that given the hundreds of alliances and thousands of corps, that it may have happened?

No, I'm not trolling, go over my posts, I don't troll.

What's the topic again? Are you upset CCP reversed the decision, or were you upset they made the change? Because if you whined about the name change, why would anyone complain that CCP gave in and redacted?



Vincent, "...know this by fact?" The original decision as posted by CCP that granted the name change for exBob explicitly stated that they used precedent in shaping their decision making process. May have not been the ONLY reason, but much was speculated in terms then of what precedent, and CCP has made that a moot point by reversing their original decision, without feeling the need to inform us of too many further details. It does appear that the COW incident may have played a role, and as such, renaming the Kenzoku alliance in the manner they originally chose would not have fit into that one particular established precedent.

I asked if you were trolling, because you quoted only from a P.S. of my previous post, and responded with a one liner that clearly misses the mark. Sure, new policy happens, but in this case, CCP has publicly stated that were not just making stuff up this time.

I happen to enjoy an entertaining debate, and am glad this one has gone in the favor of those that believed in no "freebees for exBobbies". Let them have their name, as far as I care, as long as they pay for it. In that case, they can eat it too.


Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.03.28 01:49:00 - [969]
 

Originally by: Wyn Pharoh
Edited by: Wyn Pharoh on 28/03/2009 00:01:57
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Originally by: Wyn Pharoh

Too bad the initial decision by CCP stated that they acted UPON previous precedent. Reversal is an 'oops' precedent had more to it than we realized, and again, CCP is the ruling body here trying to interpret their own precedents. Trolling me to distract others off topic only muddies the waters. Rolling Eyes


You know this by fact? Is there any possibility, that given the hundreds of alliances and thousands of corps, that it may have happened?

No, I'm not trolling, go over my posts, I don't troll.

What's the topic again? Are you upset CCP reversed the decision, or were you upset they made the change? Because if you whined about the name change, why would anyone complain that CCP gave in and redacted?



Vincent, "...know this by fact?" The original decision as posted by CCP that granted the name change for exBob explicitly stated that they used precedent in shaping their decision making process. May have not been the ONLY reason, but much was speculated in terms then of what precedent, and CCP has made that a moot point by reversing their original decision, without feeling the need to inform us of too many further details. It does appear that the COW incident may have played a role, and as such, renaming the Kenzoku alliance in the manner they originally chose would not have fit into that one particular established precedent.

I asked if you were trolling, because you quoted only from a P.S. of my previous post, and responded with a one liner that clearly misses the mark. Sure, new policy happens, but in this case, CCP has publicly stated that were not just making stuff up this time.

I happen to enjoy an entertaining debate, and am glad this one has gone in the favor of those that believed in no "freebees for exBobbies". Let them have their name, as far as I care, as long as they pay for it. In that case, they can eat it too.




I feel that the majority would agree the name for 1bn ISK and loss of sov... and with ken just getting sov 3 it would leave them to decide what is more important to them. Really an interesting and tough decision.

Wyn Pharoh
Gallente
Deep Stage
THE-FEDERATION
Posted - 2009.03.28 02:20:00 - [970]
 

Entirely spurious, but may we now all refer to this as the...

BOBR vs. the Sacred COW incident???

laura raumal
Posted - 2009.03.28 03:55:00 - [971]
 

Edited by: laura raumal on 28/03/2009 03:55:20
Originally by: Vincent Gaines

I feel that the majority would agree the name for 1bn ISK and loss of sov... and with ken just getting sov 3 it would leave them to decide what is more important to them. Really an interesting and tough decision.


Perhaps. But if CCP had simply made a decision faster then 2 months then it wouldn't really be an issue now would it?

Lysander Kaldenn
Dead Reckoning.
Posted - 2009.03.28 05:04:00 - [972]
 

Originally by: NereSky
Suppose this will be the case get enough goons to cry and stamp their feet like spoiled bratz then ike parents CCP will cave,

Shame CCP looks like you are being run by Goons now




I guess it's pretty obvious who you and the rest o the fuppets are being run by......

NereSky
Gallente
RETRIBUTIONS.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2009.03.28 08:13:00 - [973]
 

Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn
Originally by: NereSky
Suppose this will be the case get enough goons to cry and stamp their feet like spoiled bratz then ike parents CCP will cave,

Shame CCP looks like you are being run by Goons now




I guess it's pretty obvious who you and the rest o the fuppets are being run by......


No not really ive fought and battled against BoB as much as any NC member, just my personnal opinion based on my observations of certain entities

Cpt Cosmic
Posted - 2009.03.28 12:50:00 - [974]
 

Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 28/03/2009 12:57:48
I dont care about BOB and GOONS but that threadnaugths really work is sad Rolling Eyes

I just see lack of braincells here lately, an alliance get a name change and they must be clearly cheating :> and a name change OMG this is clearly overpowered and has such a massive impact ingame, run, the sky is ... oh wait!

first CCP makes a name change due to reasonable arguments, then the stupid mob comes in the forum and cry because of NOTHING but some few letter worth of pixels aka the alliance name that actually does NOTHING and then CCP changes it back because of some threadnaugths Rolling Eyes CCP should decide to which part of the community they want to listen, on the crying mindless mob or the reasonable playerbase.

maybe the name should not be changed in the first place but it shouldn't have been changed back for sure because of the power that ascribes to the forum complaints. also it shows that CCP is not able to do uncompromising actions as the staff of this game.

maybe we should follow the trend and make threadnaugths about "CCP IS PRO GOON/WHINERS/MINDLESS BLOB, the sky is falling"

PS: I will just state here that the last actions over the last months done by GS were for no other purpose than to grief and harrass other players and this is no allowed according the EULA thus in the end they should not have lost their name in the first place.

Pacifica Oceana
Posted - 2009.03.28 13:49:00 - [975]
 

My thoughts on this are that all CCP GMs should re-familiarize themselves with the "EVE® Online END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT" or at least take a course on it. If they really utterly not sure maybe they can get a legal team to make a ruling on it, after all it is worded like a legal document.

One day someone is going to sue CCP and use that document as the basis because they don't abide by it.

Or is CCP saying it's not worth the pixels its written with!




Ukiah
Gallente
Imperium Signal Corps
Underworld Excavators
Posted - 2009.03.28 16:39:00 - [976]
 

Originally by: Oran Sound
You guys are mean. They just didn't want that crappy anime name.

NO ANIMES


With Animes like this, who needs friends?

Wyn Pharoh
Gallente
Deep Stage
THE-FEDERATION
Posted - 2009.03.28 16:40:00 - [977]
 

Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 28/03/2009 12:57:48

first CCP makes a name change due to reasonable arguments, then the stupid mob comes in the forum and cry because of NOTHING but some few letter worth of pixels aka the alliance name that actually does NOTHING and then CCP changes it back because of some threadnaugths Rolling Eyes



Wow. This whole mob rule 'meme' sure is taking on a life of its own.

Fact: CCP has made changing an alliance name a near impossible feat in the past.

Fact: When they have done so, it has always had a cost.

Fact: Their initial decision to change exBob's name to BOBR came at no cost.

Fact: They reversed their own decision based upon the facts at hand, not because a million goons and the few of us pubbies who care about all players being treated equally posted an enormous volume of disgust on the forums.

At the end of the day, I'm sure the concerns raised by a few of us pubbies may have had an impact, but unless you have more inside information than the rest of us, how about we just work with the realities at hand. Others have pointed out that this is no big deal. For the most part, agreed. Apparently though, CCP feels otherwise, if not they would have played fast and loose changing pixels back and forth from day 1.

Anglo
Minmatar
Astral Mexicans
Posted - 2009.03.28 17:32:00 - [978]
 

i find it odd to have 2 months to decide this task but 48 houres to reverse it.. ccp just screwed ower some of the oldest players in eve.. i wonder what will happend next! i dont trust ccp one bit anymore.-...

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.28 19:10:00 - [979]
 

Originally by: Wyn Pharoh
Fact: When they have done so, it has always had a cost.

Fact: Their initial decision to change exBob's name to BOBR came at no cost.



I agree with this point Wyn, it should have cost the normal 1 bil (and I don't honestly know that it didn't). I'm sure you realize that we don't sweat 1 bil though correct? We would have happily paid that.

CommmanderInChief
Posted - 2009.03.28 19:11:00 - [980]
 

I mean tbh who cares??!! really seriously?? theres more important things in life..I mean them changing their name MADE NO IMPACT on the game or anything..its just a name change - so what!

Its not like they are hiding from anything..CCP got lots of peer pressure for something so silly and backed down simple)..god knows why really.. I think anyone should be able to change alliance names..just charge a fee!

Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2009.03.28 20:51:00 - [981]
 

hi mum o/

Cpt Cosmic
Posted - 2009.03.28 20:52:00 - [982]
 

Originally by: Wyn Pharoh

Fact: CCP has made changing an alliance name a near impossible feat in the past.

Fact: When they have done so, it has always had a cost.

Fact: Their initial decision to change exBob's name to BOBR came at no cost.

stop living in the past and start using your brain, you are just one of those brainless zombies repeating stupid stuff over and over.

FACT: changing name has NO IMPACT ingame, it took CCP over 2 months to decide it and 1 day to reverse because every goon and his mothers alt account made spam threads and petitions.

FACT: if CCP would take their own rules strictly, bob would have never lost their name in the first place.

FACT: no matter how you try to argue CCPs game staff did everything wrong.

GateScout
Posted - 2009.03.28 21:24:00 - [983]
 

Originally by: Cpt Cosmic

FACT: changing name has NO IMPACT ingame, it took CCP over 2 months to decide it and 1 day to reverse because every goon and his mothers alt account made spam threads and petitions.


FACT: You missed the point.

The name change, itself, is meaningless. The issue is the perception of favoritism to one particular alliance with a documented history of similar issues.

Do the world a favor and think about the underlying issues and not just the superficial symptoms. Rolling Eyes


Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.03.28 22:32:00 - [984]
 

Originally by: GateScout
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic

FACT: changing name has NO IMPACT ingame, it took CCP over 2 months to decide it and 1 day to reverse because every goon and his mothers alt account made spam threads and petitions.


FACT: You missed the point.

The name change, itself, is meaningless. The issue is the perception of favoritism to one particular alliance with a documented history of similar issues.

Do the world a favor and think about the underlying issues and not just the superficial symptoms. Rolling Eyes




there is no way you're an alt Shocked

Ordais
Posted - 2009.03.29 02:16:00 - [985]
 

Originally by: GM Grimmi
We appreciate the feedback from everyone. After reviewing all of these very valid concerns, we were compelled to go back over the information we’d collected in this case and carefully weighed it again against the precedents set in the past. Ultimately, we felt we had no other recourse than to reverse the name change, the key factor being that during this re-investigation we learned that the KenZoku alliance was created several months before the BoB alliance leadership switched hands. That being the case, the name change request was not submitted within a timely manner, as it had been in the legacy cases we were holding up as examples.

We will be contacting the CSM for input regarding our naming policies.



Normally i dont get involved in something like this but:

in your 2 months research you never checked when the alliance "kenzoku" was created? How on earth did you then know it was in line with your examples? This is basic understanding of any investigation, get all the facts FIRST...

i'm concerned about your other "investigation"...

WaltDisney
Posted - 2009.03.29 02:55:00 - [986]
 

Edited by: WaltDisney on 29/03/2009 02:56:22
Hi all, as a supporter of clear gaming. Has Internal Affairs ever thought of studying of all the GM's Yeas or Nays. Could that actually show bias of gms?
(ie Corp B. petitions get 70% positive petitions then Corp A.)Wink Of course statistics can't always be trusted.

cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.03.29 06:08:00 - [987]
 

Originally by: WaltDisney
Edited by: WaltDisney on 29/03/2009 02:56:22
Hi all, as a supporter of clear gaming. Has Internal Affairs ever thought of studying of all the GM's Yeas or Nays. Could that actually show bias of gms?
(ie Corp B. petitions get 70% positive petitions then Corp A.)Wink Of course statistics can't always be trusted.


i don't ever see ccp doing this as it could show them being bias, also some people will petition everything under teh sun my ship died i didn't fit xyz i want my ship back so this would make it very hard for internal affairs to study it at that level.

as to bob reloaded, i know fell that goonswarm have lost something they could have used as a moral boost in a long term goal. i.e. we removed .bob. from all of 0.0 now all they have is we killed kenny.

if i was ccp with the name change done i would have done well thats it. it's done end of story but thats me. with them having to look like they are being fair they had no choice after all the whinners came out.

maybe this could be a nice story for isd to report on what happend and why.

it would be funny if this is what happend

bob dev - i'll change it
goon dev - i'll change it back
neut dev - @%&$! i better cover up this rift and post on eve-o saying why it was changed back

"note to all i do not think this happend and my brain is doing its runaway bit"

what was likely to have happend

2 months of ccp going right what do we do.
some head person state look its only a name change its not the end of the world lets just give them it
dev all go yup yup yup yup (king of the hill style)
bob is back in such away.
eve players point out that this is not fair as the alliance has been around some time and they didn't lose there 2 months of sov and as far as we know didn;t cost them 1b isk easy version is also "rable rable rable"
dev look at forum and go you know what there right go to talk with said head person
head person state look its only a name change its not the end of the world lets just give them it
dev all go yup yup yup yup (king of the hill style once again)
kenny is back

this is the sort version and some of the word and tones might not have been used

El Muerte
The Nine Gates
Posted - 2009.03.29 07:57:00 - [988]
 

Loosing all our space over a disgruntled member = 1 sigh. ugh

Loosing Skill points to a fkd up training que = 2 sighs. ughugh


Seeing Goonies Crying or Very sad while bending over Haarg and CCP = Priceless.Wink



Way to go keep up the tissue ratings. It still won't help you.


Lizhia Birath
Minmatar
AzTra Logistics
QUAFE Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.29 09:22:00 - [989]
 

Originally by: El Muerte
Loosing all our space over a disgruntled member = 1 sigh. ugh

Loosing Skill points to a fkd up training que = 2 sighs. ughugh


Seeing Goonies Crying or Very sad while bending over Haarg and CCP = Priceless.Wink



Way to go keep up the tissue ratings. It still won't help you.




Not even CCP is gonna save you this time, animesan

the Entity
testicular Fortitude
Posted - 2009.03.29 11:12:00 - [990]
 

Edited by: the Entity on 29/03/2009 11:14:55
Originally by: El'Niaga
Originally by: laura raumal
Originally by: Tractormech
Edited by: Tractormech on 27/03/2009 00:03:59
If it had been any other alliance, a low level GM would have ignored/denied it immediately. But as usual CCP wanted their alts to have BOB as their ally ticker.

You think they would have learned the first 20 times with the favouritism approach.

How this could have even been considered in the slightest, much less inacted and reversed is beyond me.


Have you even read this thread? How i'll informed you actually are.


Considering Tractormech is a known corp thief I'm not sure how much faith you can put in anything he says.


Considering you're hiding behind an alt, evil one, why dont you stfu and come get us like uve been threatening huh?

oh an on topic, we all knwo bob are babies with attitude if dont go their way... get over it u sheep!



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