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Kheldon Fel
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:13:00 - [871]
 

Edited by: Kheldon Fel on 26/03/2009 20:14:06
Originally by: slothe
There should be no more debate over the kenzoku or reloaded name. The original name should be returned without question or debate.

It shouldn't bother the Goons as they were purely after delve or are they openly admitting they did it for greifing and harrasment in game and on the forums, something else which is against CCP ethos??

Sort it out CCP


But the original alliance name has been restored. It says so right in the OP

Lord WarATron
Amarr
Shadow Warri0rs
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:14:00 - [872]
 

Edited by: Lord WarATron on 26/03/2009 20:13:54

Argumentum Ad Nauseam


Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:15:00 - [873]
 

Edited by: Avon on 26/03/2009 20:53:11
Originally by: Rodj Blake


But if so, then another option would have been to create a new holding corp for the new alliance?

You have to keep in mind the amount of information we had available to us at the time, rather than viewing it in hindsight.
CCP were not forthcomming about the legitamacy of the position we were in, our options, or even a likely timescale for resolution.
If they had said "If you form a new alliance then you will get your name changed back to BoB, but if you join an existing alt alliance you will not", then a different course of action may well have been taken.

There was no way for us to know at the time what was the correct course of action.

We had already previously paid the fees associated with starting alliance when Kenzoku was formed, and we had been given no indication that creating a new alliance would have made any difference.
As a matter of convenience we joined the existing alliance, as much because the people who could make that happen were online and available as any other reason.
This allowed us to communicate more effectively, and importantly set our standings correctly.
It provided no advantage over creating a new alliance - our towers would have counted either way.

Really the "Kenzoku are too old" reason seems a bit of an easy get-out for CCP, but it is their game and if they choose to apply rules differently now as they did previously using it as an excuse there isn't really much I can do about it. And honestly I kinda secretly like the name.

However, to claim that "justice" has been done, or the resolution is "fair" just because one bad descision has been replaced by another one is a stretch of logic.
Then again, as our Goon friend said, this was never about fairness.

Kheldon Fel
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:15:00 - [874]
 

Originally by: Lord WarATron
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 26/03/2009 20:13:54

Argumentum Ad Nauseam




Shhhhh, I own stock in Pepto Bismol.

Shinma Apollo
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:15:00 - [875]
 

Originally by: slothe
There should be no more debate over the kenzoku or reloaded name. The original name should be returned without question or debate.

It shouldn't bother the Goons as they were purely after delve or are they openly admitting they did it for greifing and harrasment in game and on the forums, something else which is against CCP ethos??

Sort it out CCP


Simply put, goons were seeking to destroy you culturally as well as territorially (yay sandbox!). And saying Harassment and griefing are against CCP ethos? You've never filed a petition, have you?

Lizhia Birath
Minmatar
AzTra Logistics
QUAFE Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:15:00 - [876]
 

Originally by: Thol's Ego
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Thol's Ego
Originally by: Rodj Blake
When did it become against the rules to create an alliance while at war?


Game mechanics at that time prevented corps which are at war to create a new alliance. Goons knew this and tried to use this to their advantage to prevent us from regaining any sov.

One more factor that pushed us into joinigng an existing alliance.


They must have changed things since we created the PIE alliance then.

But if so, then another option would have been to create a new holding corp for the new alliance?


Well we wanted to join an alliance asap, as any day could count for sovereignty in delve we thought back then. But we did not have a big sitdown, due to said time restrictions. And therefor most logical choices were considerd and discarded mostly because getting into 1 alliance ie nescescary for alot more things then just sov. I.E. cap ships at other corps pos's that would get bounced etc etc etc.

So when we couldn't remake bob, and couldn't realisticly determine when to expect an answer on our petition from ccp. We did the most logical thing.


And since you(in the end) got the most logical answer you are now stuck with being Kenny but free to have a big sit down and discuss what you want to be called and then take the steps to creat that alliance. Perhaps you should have taken the half an hour or whatever it would have taken to have a sit down and discuss what should be done back then and not jumped the gun ugh

Wyn Pharoh
Gallente
Deep Stage
THE-FEDERATION
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:15:00 - [877]
 

Originally by: slothe
There should be no more debate over the kenzoku or reloaded name. The original name should be returned without question or debate.

It shouldn't bother the Goons as they were purely after delve or are they openly admitting they did it for greifing and harrasment in game and on the forums, something else which is against CCP ethos??

Sort it out CCP


Without debate or without cost? Is this the exBob position, that it is now the time to disband and reform in order to have the petitioned name returned?


slothe
Caldari
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:17:00 - [878]
 

Edited by: slothe on 26/03/2009 20:20:24
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
Edited by: Kheldon Fel on 26/03/2009 20:14:06
Originally by: slothe
There should be no more debate over the kenzoku or reloaded name. The original name should be returned without question or debate.

It shouldn't bother the Goons as they were purely after delve or are they openly admitting they did it for greifing and harrasment in game and on the forums, something else which is against CCP ethos??

Sort it out CCP


But the original alliance name has been restored. It says so right in the OP


the original name was Band Of Brothers?? have you only just started playing eve?

To clarify my position these are entirely my personal views and if i were in a different alliance or on the other side of the fence they would be the same.

Daveion Steel
Gallente
6thsense Corp
Broken Chains Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:19:00 - [879]
 

Originally written by
Professor Impossible
Claflin Industries


If I were CCP I would've stripped the original name from the fake corp Goonswarm created and given it back to BoB.

Goonswarm has admitted that they took the name just to harass BoB. They also admitted to wardeccing every BoB corp for the sole purpose of preventing them from being able to form a new alliance. They are just annoyed because CCP is putting its foot down regarding their harassment tactics.

It's a basic principle that players should get to choose the name of their corporation or alliance. Goonswarm intentionally tried to thwart that by using game mechanics inappropriately. Wardecs are not for the purpose of blocking alliance creation. And neither is it appropriate to create a corp name and ticker just to deny it to someone else. This isn't a case where its questionable whether Goonswarm did these things for legitimate purposes. They unequivocally stated that the wardecs and corp creation were to harass BoB.

Also, everyone knows that the BoB alliance was not disbanded because BoB wanted to disband, it was because of a spy in the executor corp. BoB is still stuck with the tactical repercussions of that, losing all sov. The name change is purely cosmetic. For Goonswarm to act like a purely cosmetic name change means that CCP is somehow helping them win the game is completely asinine. It has no tactical repercussions at all. Everyone is in the same place as before. What Goonswarm considers "unfair" is that someone would dare impede their right to grief the hell out of everyone in EVE.
I am not aware of an alliance being renamed, but I know of a corp and multiple characters that have been renamed because they were created for the express purpose of trying to pass themselves off as other corps or players. It completely makes sense to me that an alliance would be allowed to rename when it was used solely because other groups griefed them into using it.

I am glad CCP doesn't allow Goonswarm to run roughshod over this game, implicitly condoning their griefing by ignoring it. Goonswarm just has sour grapes that their juvenile antics aren't allowed to run rampant.
------------------------------------

I personally think the reverse decision is complete flatulence.


D...

Talon Scorpio
Caldari
Versatech Co.
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:20:00 - [880]
 

Originally by: Marius Duvall
Originally by: XoPhyte
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of CCP's decision, may I just say that in my opinion KenZoku is a better name than Band of Brothers Reloaded.


Perhaps. I don't really care about the name tbh. I just care about this whole "fair and equal treatment" but only when it works out for goons anymore, and threadnaughts occur when it doesn't. I love how they are "sticking up for the little people" but have no problems getting decisions their way that go against past decisions. Seems to be against the whole "we are good for eve" mantra they want to push. Confused


Goons have always cared about the well being of pubbies, hth.


Hypocrite.
Delicious.
You think you are outside of what should be applied to everyone else.
You are goons, we are BoB, and everyone else plus BoB are pubbies.
What is this **** about doing what you are doing for the good of EVE. You dont care about EVE.

Karezan
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:23:00 - [881]
 

Originally by: Kheldon Fel
Given how fast Goons were able to scoop up the Band of Brothers name, this does not seem as unlikely as you imply.


As already mentioned, they only needed a corp, which is much easier to form than an alliance. They also knew this was coming, so they could have been prepared either way.

Kheldon Fel
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:23:00 - [882]
 

Originally by: slothe
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
Edited by: Kheldon Fel on 26/03/2009 20:14:06
Originally by: slothe
There should be no more debate over the kenzoku or reloaded name. The original name should be returned without question or debate.

It shouldn't bother the Goons as they were purely after delve or are they openly admitting they did it for greifing and harrasment in game and on the forums, something else which is against CCP ethos??

Sort it out CCP


But the original alliance name has been restored. It says so right in the OP


the original name was Band Of Brothers?? have you only just started playing eve?


Sorry, the original name of the new alliance is kenzoku. Perhaps you are confused?

Marius Duvall
Amarr
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:24:00 - [883]
 

Originally by: Talon Scorpio
Originally by: Marius Duvall
Originally by: XoPhyte
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of CCP's decision, may I just say that in my opinion KenZoku is a better name than Band of Brothers Reloaded.


Perhaps. I don't really care about the name tbh. I just care about this whole "fair and equal treatment" but only when it works out for goons anymore, and threadnaughts occur when it doesn't. I love how they are "sticking up for the little people" but have no problems getting decisions their way that go against past decisions. Seems to be against the whole "we are good for eve" mantra they want to push. Confused


Goons have always cared about the well being of pubbies, hth.


Hypocrite.
Delicious.
You think you are outside of what should be applied to everyone else.
You are goons, we are BoB, and everyone else plus BoB are pubbies.
What is this **** about doing what you are doing for the good of EVE. You dont care about EVE.



u mad?

Metlec
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:30:00 - [884]
 

Its pathetic that people got so up in arms about a simple name change. Forum warriors need some perspective. Does BOBs alliance name really affect your playing experience at all? No. Rolling Eyes

Add alliance name changing for an isk fee into the game. RL organisations rebrand themselves all the time.

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:31:00 - [885]
 

Originally by: Marius Duvall

u mad?


I doubt he is mad. I just sure hope that CCP reads this stuff so perhaps the next tantrum won't work out so well for you guys. However given CCP's history I am quite sure you will still succeeed.

Talon Scorpio
Caldari
Versatech Co.
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:32:00 - [886]
 

Originally by: Marius Duvall

Goons have always cared about the well being of pubbies, hth.


Hypocrite.
Delicious.
You think you are outside of what should be applied to everyone else.
You are goons, we are BoB, and everyone else plus BoB are pubbies.
What is this **** about doing what you are doing for the good of EVE. You dont care about EVE.



u mad?


Furious Smile

EliteSlave
Minmatar
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:37:00 - [887]
 

Originally by: Metlec
Its pathetic that people got so up in arms about a simple name change. Forum warriors need some perspective. Does BOBs alliance name really affect your playing experience at all? No. Rolling Eyes

Add alliance name changing for an isk fee into the game. RL organisations rebrand themselves all the time.


And RL organisations still have to pay for rebranding...

New Licensing Fee's, Tax Fee's, Attorney Fee's, Advertisement Changes, Uniform Changes, list goes on and on...

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:38:00 - [888]
 

Edited by: XoPhyte on 26/03/2009 20:38:04
Originally by: EliteSlave
Originally by: Metlec
Its pathetic that people got so up in arms about a simple name change. Forum warriors need some perspective. Does BOBs alliance name really affect your playing experience at all? No. Rolling Eyes

Add alliance name changing for an isk fee into the game. RL organisations rebrand themselves all the time.


And RL organisations still have to pay for rebranding...

New Licensing Fee's, Tax Fee's, Attorney Fee's, Advertisement Changes, Uniform Changes, list goes on and on...


I bolded the point you must have missed from his comment.

Marius Duvall
Amarr
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:39:00 - [889]
 

Originally by: Talon Scorpio
Originally by: Marius Duvall

Goons have always cared about the well being of pubbies, hth.


Hypocrite.
Delicious.
You think you are outside of what should be applied to everyone else.
You are goons, we are BoB, and everyone else plus BoB are pubbies.
What is this **** about doing what you are doing for the good of EVE. You dont care about EVE.



u mad?


Furious Smile


I certainly detected a furious amount of irony in your post. Also some redundancy. Try to spot them!

Wyn Pharoh
Gallente
Deep Stage
THE-FEDERATION
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:42:00 - [890]
 

Originally by: Metlec
Its pathetic that people got so up in arms about a simple name change. Forum warriors need some perspective. Does BOBs alliance name really affect your playing experience at all? No. Rolling Eyes

Add alliance name changing for an isk fee into the game. RL organisations rebrand themselves all the time.


Easy enough to agree, if CCP hadn't already made it such a big deal themselves. No one's name makes any real difference here, its just the small overlooked things like the costs that others have had to pay, under CCP's flawed system, that is at issue here. One standard to rule us all does affect the playing experience. Rolling Eyes

Xendie
Ad Astra Vexillum
Sc0rched Earth
Posted - 2009.03.26 21:14:00 - [891]
 

Edited by: Xendie on 26/03/2009 21:14:24
Alliances and drama come and go.... when BoB first appeared they were full of sh*t much like every other power at the time, the sh*t continues and in the end the sh*t becomes extinct, it's all a natural progression.

That is all.



YuuLike FryLice
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.03.26 21:53:00 - [892]
 

Edited by: YuuLike FryLice on 26/03/2009 22:00:43
.
Haha this is such a tremendous load of bull. The name change supposedly happened just now because CCP spent two months reviewing the case. Well, apparently in two whole months they didn't learn even a few basic facts about the situation. Good job, you herd of monkeys-with-typewriters.

Originally by: XoPhyte
given CCP's history

You mean the history of clandestine support for BoB, for which retractions and apologies happened only after massive ****-storms of negative public sentiment? Goonswarm throws tantrums because tantrums are the only thing that effectively alerts the general Eve community to CCP's malarkey.

YuuLike FryLice
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.03.26 21:59:00 - [893]
 

Edited by: YuuLike FryLice on 26/03/2009 22:00:23
edit: double post

perfeus
Anvil Inc.
Posted - 2009.03.26 22:07:00 - [894]
 

Originally by: YuuLike FryLice
Edited by: YuuLike FryLice on 26/03/2009 22:00:43
.
Haha this is such a tremendous load of bull. The name change supposedly happened just now because CCP spent two months reviewing the case. Well, apparently in two whole months they didn't learn even a few basic facts about the situation. Good job, you herd of monkeys-with-typewriters.

Originally by: XoPhyte
given CCP's history

You mean the history of clandestine support for BoB, for which retractions and apologies happened only after massive ****-storms of negative public sentiment? Goonswarm throws tantrums because tantrums are the only thing that effectively alerts the general Eve community to CCP's malarkey.


So there should now be clandestine support for Goonswarm by CCP? I guess that doesn't bother goons at all.

rosey palmer
GoonwSarm
Posted - 2009.03.26 22:11:00 - [895]
 

Edited by: rosey palmer on 26/03/2009 22:14:12
So this was just a way for Goonswarm to harras Bob and CCP gave in (Goonswarm have pretty much admitted this now after CCP changed their decision).

Glad to see CCP picking sides rather then being neutral. ugh I hope CCP feels pretty dumb after being outsmarted by Goonswarm.

Wyn Pharoh
Gallente
Deep Stage
THE-FEDERATION
Posted - 2009.03.26 22:23:00 - [896]
 

Originally by: rosey palmer
Edited by: rosey palmer on 26/03/2009 22:14:12
So this was just a way for Goonswarm to harras Bob and CCP gave in (Goonswarm have pretty much admitted this now after CCP changed their decision).

Glad to see CCP picking sides rather then being neutral. ugh I hope CCP feels pretty dumb after being outsmarted by Goonswarm.


Not so much. GS heisting the name itself may be considered a COW like act of griefing. That is not the subject here really. The actual subject is that TANSTAAFL rules in EvE. Or in this case, any free name changes under COW like circumstances. I hope CCP feels pretty smart for seeing the error in their original decision making process.




Sinsalura
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2009.03.26 22:27:00 - [897]
 

You're a ****ing joke CCP

Hubris
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.03.26 22:33:00 - [898]
 

Originally by: Sinsalura
You're a ****ing joke CCP


you so don't get bat phone privileges anymore.


Marco Ragnos
eXceed Inc.
Minor Threat.
Posted - 2009.03.26 22:41:00 - [899]
 

I dont know whats worst, this bob/goon/namechange situation and how it was handled, or ccp trying to turn falcons into front line brawlers and SB's into in your face torp launchers =\

Razzor Blades
Posted - 2009.03.26 22:49:00 - [900]
 

Originally by: Sinsalura
You're a ****ing joke CCP


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