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EliteSlave
Minmatar
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:30:00 - [841]
 

Originally by: Avon
Originally by: EliteSlave
When one starts to compare EVE to RL you automatically lose the arguement.

Now,

I knew that GS had wardec'd your alliance to prevent the Corps at hand from making the alliance. But had you really wanted the BOB name back you could have made a new corp which costs 1.6m isk and made the alliance which cost's 1b isk. and thus got around the war dec preventing you from joining up.

How would that have got the BoB name back?
Explain.


Here ill try to break it down nice and easy.

So bob got disbanded yeah?

Ok now that we understand that BoB got disbanded, we can move to the next step.

So Now that the BoB corps are now "In limbo", Instead of Joining Kenny as what was done and then Petitioning for the name change, What should have been done was...

The Corps Make new alliance... named Bob reloaded or BoB mark 2 or whatever of those naming lines...

Then make the petition of saying you wanted the name Band of Brothers Reload, and pretty much everything would have been hunky dory,

But the Leadership of BoB decided to go with Kenny. Which was already established alliance and made the petition to be rebranded into BOBR. And then you suffered no loss of Sov or had to pay the ISK to "make the alliance".

Now its not a garuntee that you would have gotten the BOB name back, but atleast it would be more on the legitamate side of the fence, and not into the "gray area" of what the kenny route that was taken which brought the masses to think that this had more of a "T20" flavor of loving that you were receiving, thus the Threadnaught was unleashed.

Now Personally I think you should get the BOB name back as a whole, But the action was completely legitimate since it was an Inside job. not a hacked account. So thus "Stuff happens and we have to Deal with it"


Poopsock Alarmclock
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:30:00 - [842]
 

Originally by: XoPhyte
Edited by: XoPhyte on 26/03/2009 19:18:46
Originally by: Poopsock Alarmclock
Originally by: XoPhyte

22 posts in 3 pages



your terrible posting is turning the tide

don't falter now




I fear your 1 liners. And I guess goons can "threadnaught" but I can't post my counter arguments? Confused


clearly you can, 22 times in 3 pages

whoops make that 25 and counting

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Thol's Ego
Tin Foil
KenZoku
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:32:00 - [843]
 

Originally by: EliteSlave


Here ill try to break it down nice and easy.

So bob got disbanded yeah?

Ok now that we understand that BoB got disbanded, we can move to the next step.

So Now that the BoB corps are now "In limbo", Instead of Joining Kenny as what was done and then Petitioning for the name change, What should have been done was...

The Corps Make new alliance...


Stop there, we were wardecced, and inable to make a new alliance. Thanks for being smart and bringing this up twice now. I see you are a credit to your alliance.

Hubris
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:33:00 - [844]
 

Edited by: Hubris on 26/03/2009 19:35:32
Originally by: Avon Posted - 2005.11.10 11:22:00


I have already said my accounts have been cancelled, so why bother ranting at me?


no please Avon don't do this again.

On a side note now that kenny is on the losing side of this decision. Doesn't it mean kenny is whining and the tears from such whining are supposedly delicious. just checking.........


XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:34:00 - [845]
 

Originally by: Marius Duvall

I'm still amused that you think this was a threadnaught.


Yes, I guess I mis-characterized the thousands of goons posts on this issue. Or the threats (again) to quit "en mass" if "CCP doesn't fix this immediatly".

How about "forum tantrum", does that work better for you?

And don't get me wrong, the majority of my blame goes to CCP. How else would anybody percieve these events...


  1. Petition gets filed

  2. 2 months of "investigation" go by

  3. Decision is reached, name is changed

  4. Goons + some others + a crap load of alts threaten to quit

  5. 48 hours CCP reverses their decision



It appears to be pure capitulation on the part of CCP to simply give in to these tantrums.

Thol's Ego
Tin Foil
KenZoku
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:35:00 - [846]
 

Originally by: Hubris
Originally by: Avon Posted - 2005.11.10 11:22:00


I have already said my accounts have been cancelled, so why bother ranting at me?


no please Avon don't do this again.

On a side note now that kenny is on the losing side of this decision. Doesn't it mean kenny is whining and the tears from such whining are supposedly delicious. just checking.........


I heard this was all about the tears, and not so much about the right thing to do. Right?

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:36:00 - [847]
 

Originally by: Poopsock Alarmclock

whoops make that 25 and counting



I feel special that you are following me this closely Embarassed

Please just credit me when you quote me going forward. Wink

Kheldon Fel
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:37:00 - [848]
 

Originally by: Thol's Ego
Originally by: EliteSlave


Here ill try to break it down nice and easy.

So bob got disbanded yeah?

Ok now that we understand that BoB got disbanded, we can move to the next step.

So Now that the BoB corps are now "In limbo", Instead of Joining Kenny as what was done and then Petitioning for the name change, What should have been done was...

The Corps Make new alliance...


Stop there, we were wardecced, and inable to make a new alliance. Thanks for being smart and bringing this up twice now. I see you are a credit to your alliance.


So have a neutral corp/corps create a new alliance, and invite the other corps in. Problem solved!

Shinma Apollo
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:37:00 - [849]
 

Originally by: XoPhyte
Originally by: Shinma Apollo
And simply put, the matter at hand isn't name squatting, it was alliance renaming. So this whole name squatting discussion is largely spurious. Your submission for request was on the Kenzoku alliance, not Band of Brothers. Figured I'd add that.


Huh, sadly it would appear that you are lacking in a whole lot of facts.

How could we petition from the Band of Brothers alliance when we were no longer in it? Are you even aware of what has occurred?

And this whole "premeditated" argument is ridiculous. Letís go back to the days of old when we had BM bombs at pos's to generate lag.

Are you saying that we should have been allowed to do that if we planned to put it in place to cause lag? It's a perfectly legitimate in game mechanism, bookmarks where not illegal, nor where there creation of them. There were no limits on how many you could create, or where you placed them.

But if I did it "spur of the moment" I should expect a different response then if I "planned it"?

Defendant: Sir, I don't think I should be guilty of murdering my wife, I planned it in advance!
Judge: You are correct sir, dismissed!



Once again, you used a real world analogy, which I'll ignore. Whatever reason for choosing kenzoku alliance would be mitigating factors in a decision, but simply put, the question at hand isn't an adjudication on name blocking, dissolving an alliance with spies, or any of the other events that happened in February. It is simply and solely on renaming an alliance.

You have to remember, the only law here is the one that CCP puts up, and the precedent of their decisions. (though they are not bound by it. Silly Civil code)
--------

Completely separate to the name changing debate, the choice of kenzoku was done with an awareness of some benefits that choosing a pre-existing alliance would bring. Your petition was initially based on the legality of the disbanding, not the alliance blocking. (this is heresay, so I will fully concede I may be wrong on this point). Honestly, if I were to refer you to an rl precedent, I'd ironically choose UK vs. Iceland over the case of fishing rights.

Marius Duvall
Amarr
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:38:00 - [850]
 

This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.

Regards,
The EVE Online Moderation team

Hubris
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:38:00 - [851]
 

Originally by: Thol's Ego
Originally by: Hubris
Originally by: Avon Posted - 2005.11.10 11:22:00


I have already said my accounts have been cancelled, so why bother ranting at me?


no please Avon don't do this again.

On a side note now that kenny is on the losing side of this decision. Doesn't it mean kenny is whining and the tears from such whining are supposedly delicious. just checking.........


I heard this was all about the tears, and not so much about the right thing to do. Right?


hard to answer a question with a question. ask your merry band of kenny's about the other thread where everyone not with you was whining and the tears were delicious then. Oh thats right it wasn't about the tears then either for bobR/kenny it was about being right. LOL Shocked


Thol's Ego
Tin Foil
KenZoku
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:40:00 - [852]
 

Edited by: Thol''s Ego on 26/03/2009 19:40:16
Originally by: Hubris
hard to answer a question with a question. ask your merry band of kenny's about the other thread where everyone not with you was whining and the tears were delicious then. Oh thats right it wasn't about the tears then either for bobR/kenny it was about being right. LOL Shocked




other thread? Being quite specific there.....

Wyn Pharoh
Gallente
Deep Stage
THE-FEDERATION
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:42:00 - [853]
 

One day or two months later, it's not about if exBob deserved a rename; all that matters in our starfilled pubbie eyes is that NO ONE in EvE gets a whopping freebie. Especially those that have in fact gotten them before. Perhaps CCP decided to bench this petition of yours while they had a plate full of expansion to hand out to the rest of us. Perhaps CCP decided to not intervene in the midst of the full scale conflict, praying to themselves that no one could care if they bent precedent in your favor, now that the sov race of mostly a GS problem, and not so much a critical one for exBob.

How about accepting that many in EvE despise the appearance of impropriety in how this petition was initially handled and resolved in your favor AT NO COST. The only reason this debate is "All about BoB" comes from a checkered past of roleplaying for favors (not so bad in the REALLY old days in my eyes), CCP employees breaking rules in exBob's favor, or various 'batphone'/MSN privileges that others in game haven't had such great fortune in having?


Hubris
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:44:00 - [854]
 

Originally by: Thol's Ego
Edited by: Thol''s Ego on 26/03/2009 19:40:16
Originally by: Hubris
hard to answer a question with a question. ask your merry band of kenny's about the other thread where everyone not with you was whining and the tears were delicious then. Oh thats right it wasn't about the tears then either for bobR/kenny it was about being right. LOL Shocked




other thread? Being quite specific there.....


sorry let me allow you time to rub your grey matter around for a bit to get it ready for "thinkin".

Ok ready.

The other CCP released thread about this subject. Wow big jump in thought to figure that one out, huh. You know because there have been a whole 2 official threads.

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:46:00 - [855]
 

Edited by: XoPhyte on 26/03/2009 19:48:24
Originally by: Hubris
Originally by: Thol's Ego
Edited by: Thol''s Ego on 26/03/2009 19:40:16
Originally by: Hubris
hard to answer a question with a question. ask your merry band of kenny's about the other thread where everyone not with you was whining and the tears were delicious then. Oh thats right it wasn't about the tears then either for bobR/kenny it was about being right. LOL Shocked




other thread? Being quite specific there.....


sorry let me allow you time to rub your grey matter around for a bit to get it ready for "thinkin".

Ok ready.

The other CCP released thread about this subject. Wow big jump in thought to figure that one out, huh. You know because there have been a whole 2 official threads.


So let me get this straight, you reference "a thread" without linking in which NON bob was whining and you liked their tears?

Wyn Pharoh
Gallente
Deep Stage
THE-FEDERATION
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:49:00 - [856]
 

Originally by: Wyn Pharoh
Is there some valid argument here that exBob had to chose plan B because of the wardec stunt pulled when the disband occured? There can be no difference between how they joined Kenzoku as opposed to any new non wardec'd holding corp alliance, can there?

Still ignoring this in order to present your own 'meme' about why plan B was your only option at the time?


Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:51:00 - [857]
 

Originally by: Thol's Ego
Originally by: Rodj Blake
When did it become against the rules to create an alliance while at war?


Game mechanics at that time prevented corps which are at war to create a new alliance. Goons knew this and tried to use this to their advantage to prevent us from regaining any sov.

One more factor that pushed us into joinigng an existing alliance.


They must have changed things since we created the PIE alliance then.

But if so, then another option would have been to create a new holding corp for the new alliance?

EliteSlave
Minmatar
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:53:00 - [858]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Thol's Ego
Originally by: Rodj Blake
When did it become against the rules to create an alliance while at war?


Game mechanics at that time prevented corps which are at war to create a new alliance. Goons knew this and tried to use this to their advantage to prevent us from regaining any sov.

One more factor that pushed us into joinigng an existing alliance.


They must have changed things since we created the PIE alliance then.

But if so, then another option would have been to create a new holding corp for the new alliance?


Its ok, we dont understand these "Mundane" things, since we are goon fed.

I mean i have never in my life thought to use a 3rd party to create something that I myself cannot create...Surprised

yookle
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:53:00 - [859]
 

wow that's a lot of kenny posts in the last 24 hours

nice threadnaught you guys have rolling hi-five

Thol's Ego
Tin Foil
KenZoku
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:59:00 - [860]
 

Originally by: yookle
wow that's a lot of kenny posts in the last 24 hours

nice threadnaught you guys have rolling hi-five


i like these double standards. Tell me more about them

Karezan
Posted - 2009.03.26 19:59:00 - [861]
 

Originally by: Kheldon Fel
So have a neutral corp/corps create a new alliance, and invite the other corps in. Problem solved!


For them to make a neutral corp to do this, they'd need an alt with Empire Control V laying around somewhere or in a corp without roles, otherwise it would have taken too long.

This thread is quickly turning into a giant mess. I wonder if we'll hear any more from CCP on this, or if it'll go by ignored now.

I can only think of 2 possible situations here:

  • CCP gave in to the complaints in these threads, which came mostly from a vocal minority (enemies of BoB and alts), creating a horrible precedent that the total number of posts in a thread or approvals in a CSM thread can get you things your way, even when going against CCP's own decisions.

  • CCP handled this so incompetently that they actually didn't even realize KenZoku was older than 2 months. This is something that anyone in this game can look up in like 10 seconds, and was well known right from the start by most people involved in this whole debate, yet they couldn't figure this out after 2 months of "research"?


Whichever situation occured, I sure hope they look into it.

Karezan
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:01:00 - [862]
 

Originally by: yookle
wow that's a lot of kenny posts in the last 24 hours

nice threadnaught you guys have rolling hi-five


Threadnaughts are a new way of life, that's how you get CCP to do what you want!

Anyone wanna start a threadnaught for t3 bpo's?

Kheldon Fel
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:01:00 - [863]
 

Originally by: Karezan
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
So have a neutral corp/corps create a new alliance, and invite the other corps in. Problem solved!


For them to make a neutral corp to do this, they'd need an alt with Empire Control V laying around somewhere or in a corp without roles, otherwise it would have taken too long.


Given how fast Goons were able to scoop up the Band of Brothers name, this does not seem as unlikely as you imply.

Thol's Ego
Tin Foil
KenZoku
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:02:00 - [864]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Thol's Ego
Originally by: Rodj Blake
When did it become against the rules to create an alliance while at war?


Game mechanics at that time prevented corps which are at war to create a new alliance. Goons knew this and tried to use this to their advantage to prevent us from regaining any sov.

One more factor that pushed us into joinigng an existing alliance.


They must have changed things since we created the PIE alliance then.

But if so, then another option would have been to create a new holding corp for the new alliance?


Well we wanted to join an alliance asap, as any day could count for sovereignty in delve we thought back then. But we did not have a big sitdown, due to said time restrictions. And therefor most logical choices were considerd and discarded mostly because getting into 1 alliance ie nescescary for alot more things then just sov. I.E. cap ships at other corps pos's that would get bounced etc etc etc.

So when we couldn't remake bob, and couldn't realisticly determine when to expect an answer on our petition from ccp. We did the most logical thing.

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:03:00 - [865]
 

Edited by: XoPhyte on 26/03/2009 20:04:00
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
Originally by: Karezan
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
So have a neutral corp/corps create a new alliance, and invite the other corps in. Problem solved!


For them to make a neutral corp to do this, they'd need an alt with Empire Control V laying around somewhere or in a corp without roles, otherwise it would have taken too long.


Given how fast Goons were able to scoop up the Band of Brothers name, this does not seem as unlikely as you imply.


They disbanded the alliance and created a corp with the same name. Corp creation only requires corp management level 1 which takes like 15 minutes.

Hmm, I guess it WOULD seem unlikely as was originally implied.

its beta
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:04:00 - [866]
 

Originally by: Thol's Ego
Originally by: yookle
wow that's a lot of kenny posts in the last 24 hours

nice threadnaught you guys have rolling hi-five


i like these double standards. Tell me more about them
I thought you guys were the experts

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:04:00 - [867]
 

Originally by: Kheldon Fel
Originally by: Karezan
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
So have a neutral corp/corps create a new alliance, and invite the other corps in. Problem solved!


For them to make a neutral corp to do this, they'd need an alt with Empire Control V laying around somewhere or in a corp without roles, otherwise it would have taken too long.


Given how fast Goons were able to scoop up the Band of Brothers name, this does not seem as unlikely as you imply.


The Goons were creating a new corp rather than a new alliance though, so only needed an alt with Corporation Management I

Kheldon Fel
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:04:00 - [868]
 

Originally by: XoPhyte
Edited by: XoPhyte on 26/03/2009 20:04:00
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
Originally by: Karezan
Originally by: Kheldon Fel
So have a neutral corp/corps create a new alliance, and invite the other corps in. Problem solved!


For them to make a neutral corp to do this, they'd need an alt with Empire Control V laying around somewhere or in a corp without roles, otherwise it would have taken too long.


Given how fast Goons were able to scoop up the Band of Brothers name, this does not seem as unlikely as you imply.


They disbanded the alliance and created a corp with the same name. Corp creation only requires corp management level 1 which takes like 15 minutes.

Hmm, I guess it WOULD seem unlikely as was originally implied.


Valid point. I must be drunk.

slothe
Caldari
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:06:00 - [869]
 

There should be no more debate over the kenzoku or reloaded name. The original name should be returned without question or debate.

It shouldn't bother the Goons as they were purely after delve or are they openly admitting they did it for greifing and harrasment in game and on the forums, something else which is against CCP ethos??

Sort it out CCP

Hubris
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.03.26 20:11:00 - [870]
 

Originally by: slothe
There should be no more debate over the kenzoku or reloaded name. The original name should be returned without question or debate.

It shouldn't bother the Goons as they were purely after delve or are they openly admitting they did it for greifing and harrasment in game and on the forums, something else which is against CCP ethos??

Sort it out CCP


debate and questions are so useless after all.

TO the Bat Phone



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