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Cendaliaa
Posted - 2009.03.26 12:40:00 - [691]
 

Originally by: Finbar o'Fended
Im Disappointed at CCP for this reversal ,

I thought when they allowed it that it would compensate for a rather borked game mechanic .

I do wonder though if it has been reversed due to CCP's employee's being overworked and harassed by the millon threads and petitions that goonswarm et al bombarded them with , if this is the case then this game is over !



sad BoBit spotted.
The disbanding of the alliance was not faulty game mechanics Rolling Eyes

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2009.03.26 12:54:00 - [692]
 

Originally by: Cendaliaa
Originally by: Finbar o'Fended
Im Disappointed at CCP for this reversal ,

I thought when they allowed it that it would compensate for a rather borked game mechanic .

I do wonder though if it has been reversed due to CCP's employee's being overworked and harassed by the millon threads and petitions that goonswarm et al bombarded them with , if this is the case then this game is over !


sad BoBit spotted.
The disbanding of the alliance was not faulty game mechanics Rolling Eyes


- Poor mechanics? Arguable, but most seems to think so, so let's say yes.
- Faulty mechanics? No, they worked as they were created.

- If CCP decides this mechanic doesn't work as they want it to, they'll fix it. That's the proper solution.
- Giving someone a name back and breaking their own game rules (no renaming) isn't a proper solution.

Should add my support in this case leans more towards BoB than goons. The whole situation is just crappy handled, and for that, CCP is to blame. Noone else.

Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
Posted - 2009.03.26 12:58:00 - [693]
 

Edited by: Lord Fitz on 26/03/2009 12:59:11
Funnily enough, despite the protests, I do remember history exactly like this. CCP has changed alliances names for them when they were disbanded and reformed, (one forgettable drone regions alliance comes to mind). But never had they changed a pre-existing alliances name in response to a disbanding that happened later.

The lesson here is if you have your alliance disbanded, pay the billion isk to make a new one, because you can get the name back, don't skimp on the billion isk and reuse another alliance.

I don't really think anyone should get the name back, but then I think the alliance system should be more robust also.

Cletus Graeme
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.03.26 12:59:00 - [694]
 

LOL @ all the people whining about CCP actually listening to the player base. Finally, we have a company that actually cares about it's player community and all you people can do is complain about it.

I am one of the many outsiders in this conflict who doesn't really care who wins. I have no particular hate for Kenny and no particular love for Goons. I wish them BOTH luck with their 0.0 endeavours and hope that the war provides much drama, pew-pew and entertainment for all.

The decision didn't affect me in anyway as I'm an empire pubbie but I'm still glad they reversed it.

What is most important to me is not the decision itself but the fact that CCP have clearly taken into consideration the concerns of the players. Anyone who plays online games will know just how rare and unusual that is. To complain about it just plain stupid.

Thanks for listening CCP.

Karezan
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:00:00 - [695]
 

Making a possibly questionable decision is bad (I didn't feel it was that questionable, but eh).

Going back on that decision because Goons are threadnaughting is worse.

So now rather than fearing a situation where CCP might still be favoring BoB, we have a situation where we have to worry if CCP will cave every time goons decide to spam the forum.

What should have happened is that they made an unbiased decision, reviewing the information at hand (I mean c'mon, 2 months and you don't notice the alliance was older than that? That really sounds like an excuse to take back the name change without admitting it was because of threadnaughting), and then stand by that decision.

Lunas Feelgood
S.A.S
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:03:00 - [696]
 

Edited by: Lunas Feelgood on 26/03/2009 13:03:31
What I found most disturbing in this hole debate is aperently there is so much hate towards Goons that it has clouded alot of people judgement..

If people would step back abit and think about this situation they could see that CCP did a horrible mistake naming kenzuko to BOBR..

How this mistake happend I got no idea. Maybe CCP felt sorry for kenzuko and wanted to help out abit.

However its EVE. EVE isnt fair.. The nooobie who flies into low sec for the first time and lose all his assets knows this. Yes he might petition becuase of a moment of self pity/madness however rules are rules..

After a time these noobies know this. And you would have thought that so old players as BOB would also know this..

The fact is the dispanding of BOB was within game mechanics. No rules was broken..So no matter how much self-pity, anger you got, a petition it just sad..

And whats even more sad is that somehow a GM decide to bend some rules in you favor.. Thats why people got mad. This wasnt a grief tactic from goons this was about rules. Rules was broken and clearly the senior GM coudl see this and remade the decision in all fairness..

Any normal rationel human being can see this but I think alot of Kenzuko members need to step back from the game abit since I think you hate/anger towards Goons has clouded you judgement..




Andrei Vassaliev
Cursed Inc.
Not Found.
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:08:00 - [697]
 

Originally by: Karezan
Making a possibly questionable decision is bad (I didn't feel it was that questionable, but eh).

Going back on that decision because Goons are threadnaughting is worse.

So now rather than fearing a situation where CCP might still be favoring BoB, we have a situation where we have to worry if CCP will cave every time goons decide to spam the forum.

What should have happened is that they made an unbiased decision, reviewing the information at hand (I mean c'mon, 2 months and you don't notice the alliance was older than that? That really sounds like an excuse to take back the name change without admitting it was because of threadnaughting), and then stand by that decision.


Blame Avon, not Goons.
It isn't about sides, it is about truth and justice. It is about fairness and understanding. It is about doing the right thing.

Karezan
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:09:00 - [698]
 

Originally by: Cletus Graeme
LOL @ all the people whining about CCP actually listening to the player base. Finally, we have a company that actually cares about it's player community and all you people can do is complain about it.

I am one of the many outsiders in this conflict who doesn't really care who wins. I have no particular hate for Kenny and no particular love for Goons. I wish them BOTH luck with their 0.0 endeavours and hope that the war provides much drama, pew-pew and entertainment for all.

The decision didn't affect me in anyway as I'm an empire pubbie but I'm still glad they reversed it.

What is most important to me is not the decision itself but the fact that CCP have clearly taken into consideration the concerns of the players. Anyone who plays online games will know just how rare and unusual that is. To complain about it just plain stupid.

Thanks for listening CCP.


This isn't listening to their playerbase. I doubt the vast majority of their playerbase knew or cared.

This is caving in to a very vocal minority, which is almost as bad as simply favoring one alliance above the rest. A game developer cannot let themselves be bullied into making changes simply because a small group of people (small compared to the total players) decides to harass them about it.

They need to be able to make the correct decision, based on their information, using fair judgment, and then stick to that.

Karezan
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:10:00 - [699]
 

Originally by: Andrei Vassaliev
Originally by: Karezan
Making a possibly questionable decision is bad (I didn't feel it was that questionable, but eh).

Going back on that decision because Goons are threadnaughting is worse.

So now rather than fearing a situation where CCP might still be favoring BoB, we have a situation where we have to worry if CCP will cave every time goons decide to spam the forum.

What should have happened is that they made an unbiased decision, reviewing the information at hand (I mean c'mon, 2 months and you don't notice the alliance was older than that? That really sounds like an excuse to take back the name change without admitting it was because of threadnaughting), and then stand by that decision.


Blame Avon, not Goons.
It isn't about sides, it is about truth and justice. It is about fairness and understanding. It is about doing the right thing.


I'm sorry I have not read this whole thread, although I know Avon posted a bunch in here.

What did he do exactly?

Doctor Penguin
Amarr
Sacred Templars
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:26:00 - [700]
 

Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 26/03/2009 13:26:21
Well, GS has just won EVE. YARRRR!! All it took was spam posting with every single alt in the alliance.

Talon Scorpio
Caldari
Versatech Co.
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:31:00 - [701]
 

Originally by: Karezan

Thanks for listening CCP.


This isn't listening to their playerbase. I doubt the vast majority of their playerbase knew or cared.

This is caving in to a very vocal minority, which is almost as bad as simply favoring one alliance above the rest. A game developer cannot let themselves be bullied into making changes simply because a small group of people (small compared to the total players) decides to harass them about it.

They need to be able to make the correct decision, based on their information, using fair judgment, and then stick to that.



This is a basic premise in the psychological conditioning of reward for bad behavior. It's why so many parents end up with spoiled children and why EVE is becoming a sandbox the local cats are messing in.
It is the nature of cats, however distasteful.



Resipsa Loquitor
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:45:00 - [702]
 

Edited by: Resipsa Loquitor on 26/03/2009 14:03:11
tl;dnr version: Move CCP admins out of garage and nut up, buttercup; Kenny loves humping Barbies; developers keep doing weed; pizza is good.

Man, that pizza was even better this morning! Of course, I'm sure my original messages earlier in the thread about the pizza were deleted. Wrongfully, of course, because I'm a precious little snowflake and everything I say is unique and beautiful, just like what my mommy told me.

I'll get this out up-front: Don't really care about the alliance or corporate name. Yeah, I know, "Kenny didn't want that name anyway" blah blah blah. The pilots (yes, even THEM), the gameplay, and the variety of content keep me coming back (and I know its the same for all y'all). Sappy, I know.

What concerns me the most is not what is going on here in the context of this thread but rather the actions of CCP. When I say actions of CCP, Iím not talking about the results of the actions but rather the process. Frankly, Iím concerned that if CCP doesnít mentally move out of its momís basement or dadís garage administratively that this game will eventually die as we know it. Itíll turn into picking flowers for magic faire dust cannons and vibrating glowing swords of explosive pleasure because thatís just what people say they want. Well, now that I think about it, vibrating glowing swords of explosive pleasure might be something useful when we start ambulating (donít get me started about the uselessness of ambulation in an internetz spaceship game).

CCP administratively should be busy convincing people to try and buy it, growing a dedicated niche, and making a profit by charging the niche a premium for unique content. It shouldnít be moving towards the center. It shouldn't be inconsistent with its content. It shouldn't make "exceptions" and "changes" ex post facto unless it is a violation of the UELA. It should issue edicts and rules and enforce them heavily. It shouldn't give a crap what we think except for accepting our praises and wonderment as a dictator would for their peons. If people beoch, fine - let them eat cake. If they want to leave, fine - do it. I bet they don't - if you have a truly unique product then they'll have to think about it really hard. Purchaser's regret and all. And if they do, remember that some customers are not worth having. That's a very important business lesson taught in business schools, and not everyone learns it. When 10% of the customers take up 80% of your time, get rid of them.

For the long-term viability of the product and keeping it rather unique, let's move the administrative people out of the garage and into a corporate office with some top-down, quick reacting, dictatorial command structure. Let's have some set procedures that are made of iron and are not bent. Let's have some "authority of God" come down and make decisions. Let's have some "I don't care about your beoching go ahead and quit and play Pirates our decisions are final" kind of administration. Itís the way the rest of the corporate world is run, and they seem to be pretty successful at it.

Keep the garage people in the garage, let them do weed and come up with the weird **** they do that we all seem to like. The administrative types, though, need to be in a cube farm, beaten regularly, and learn to tell their customers to **** off, just like the rest of the corporate world does.

That glowing sword of vibrating pleasure will then cut all the same way both in game and out. In the end, the product will probably be more consistent and better for all. Thatíd likely solve the ďfavoritismĒ claim that most seem to be making and preserve the content of the game.

Khlitouris RegusII
Posted - 2009.03.26 14:20:00 - [703]
 

Originally by: Resipsa Loquitor
Edited by: Resipsa Loquitor on 26/03/2009 14:03:11
tl;dnr version: Move CCP admins out of garage and nut up, buttercup; Kenny loves humping Barbies; developers keep doing weed; pizza is good.

Man, that pizza was even better this morning! Of course, I'm sure my original messages earlier in the thread about the pizza were deleted. Wrongfully, of course, because I'm a precious little snowflake and everything I say is unique and beautiful, just like what my mommy told me.

I'll get this out up-front: Don't really care about the alliance or corporate name. Yeah, I know, "Kenny didn't want that name anyway" blah blah blah. The pilots (yes, even THEM), the gameplay, and the variety of content keep me coming back (and I know its the same for all y'all). Sappy, I know.

What concerns me the most is not what is going on here in the context of this thread but rather the actions of CCP. When I say actions of CCP, Iím not talking about the results of the actions but rather the process. Frankly, Iím concerned that if CCP doesnít mentally move out of its momís basement or dadís garage administratively that this game will eventually die as we know it. Itíll turn into picking flowers for magic faire dust cannons and vibrating glowing swords of explosive pleasure because thatís just what people say they want. Well, now that I think about it, vibrating glowing swords of explosive pleasure might be something useful when we start ambulating (donít get me started about the uselessness of ambulation in an internetz spaceship game).

CCP administratively should be busy convincing people to try and buy it, growing a dedicated niche, and making a profit by charging the niche a premium for unique content. It shouldnít be moving towards the center. It shouldn't be inconsistent with its content. It shouldn't make "exceptions" and "changes" ex post facto unless it is a violation of the UELA. It should issue edicts and rules and enforce them heavily. It shouldn't give a crap what we think except for accepting our praises and wonderment as a dictator would for their peons. If people beoch, fine - let them eat cake. If they want to leave, fine - do it. I bet they don't - if you have a truly unique product then they'll have to think about it really hard. Purchaser's regret and all. And if they do, remember that some customers are not worth having. That's a very important business lesson taught in business schools, and not everyone learns it. When 10% of the customers take up 80% of your time, get rid of them.

For the long-term viability of the product and keeping it rather unique, let's move the administrative people out of the garage and into a corporate office with some top-down, quick reacting, dictatorial command structure. Let's have some set procedures that are made of iron and are not bent. Let's have some "authority of God" come down and make decisions. Let's have some "I don't care about your beoching go ahead and quit and play Pirates our decisions are final" kind of administration. Itís the way the rest of the corporate world is run, and they seem to be pretty successful at it.

Keep the garage people in the garage, let them do weed and come up with the weird **** they do that we all seem to like. The administrative types, though, need to be in a cube farm, beaten regularly, and learn to tell their customers to **** off, just like the rest of the corporate world does.

That glowing sword of vibrating pleasure will then cut all the same way both in game and out. In the end, the product will probably be more consistent and better for all. Thatíd likely solve the ďfavoritismĒ claim that most seem to be making and preserve the content of the game.



/signed

My god agreeing with a kenbobu revolution member.

slothe
Caldari
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2009.03.26 14:30:00 - [704]
 

Its a shame to see CCP have changed from a company that once laughed at forum spammers into one who gives in to every whim and whine from the GS and NC alliances. I can see this game is slowly going the same way Star Wars did...

I know there are many who agree with me on the fact that Goonswarm are ruining many parts of this game filling the CAOD forums full of trash, the local spam and their persistent griefing over names etc. By blatantly supporting them you are going to ruin the game and lose your customers. You only have to look at other games the swarm have been in and the damge they did whilst there.

CCP you just showed massive favouritism to Goonswarm by going back on your name change decision, its truly amazing how all they have to do is whine and you jump to their aid, very dissapointed in your recent management decisions.


Andrei Vassaliev
Cursed Inc.
Not Found.
Posted - 2009.03.26 14:36:00 - [705]
 

Originally by: slothe
Its a shame to see CCP have changed from a company that once laughed at forum spammers into one who gives in to every whim and whine from the GS and NC alliances. I can see this game is slowly going the same way Star Wars did...

I know there are many who agree with me on the fact that Goonswarm are ruining many parts of this game filling the CAOD forums full of trash, the local spam and their persistent griefing over names etc. By blatantly supporting them you are going to ruin the game and lose your customers. You only have to look at other games the swarm have been in and the damge they did whilst there.

CCP you just showed massive favouritism to Goonswarm by going back on your name change decision, its truly amazing how all they have to do is whine and you jump to their aid, very dissapointed in your recent management decisions.




Blame Avon, not Goons.
What I want are rules that are enforced fairly and equally. If something is not allowed, then it should be the same for everyone.

Daald
Priori Inc
Posted - 2009.03.26 14:38:00 - [706]
 

Goons truly have won eve.

They have turned ex BoB into the whiniest and most myopic people playing this game.

GG goons.

Samuel Grindhoof
Wrong Indeed
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.03.26 14:39:00 - [707]
 

Edited by: Samuel Grindhoof on 26/03/2009 14:56:53
well well well.... so CCP sticks to its own rulez again.
nice to see if you ask me (well i know, nobody asked but...anyway!).

beside the complet GS vs BoB/Kenny/Beaver thing we should maybe try (just try folks, its not sooo hard) not to forget whos fault that all is.... its not the fault of exBoB nor the fault of GS what happened the last few days.

lets try to pull the facts together that we have (yeah i know i am naive, beliving everybody here is telling the truth. i know its stupid but i cant help myself to see the good in people, even if they wear an exBoB or GS tag.):
exBob wrote a petition. CCP took a s***load of time to work it over. CCP made the wrong desicion on a normal petition (totaly leagal you know... lot of you wrote possibly already more then one of them...).
so, the goons saw it and complained. thats their right. i complained too. has nothing to do with crying. even if it OF COURSE was great ammunition for the GS propaganda department. dont blame them if they use such an great assist by CCP to burn their enemys. i would have done same tbh.
ok, so btt... the goons complained (and a lot of other players did as well) and they changed the name back.

yeah thats all rather wired... ok... but thats CCPs fault.
seems like inside of the 2 or 3 month of evaluating the name change NOBODY in ccp ever slightly thought about what outcome that MIGHT have. then they changed the name back and AGAIN nobody thougth about...

congratz CCP to this very well messed up chance to talk to the community about your desicisions! if somebody would have thought about informing the community... but hey...communication and marketing is for the weak, i know -.- customers s*** anyway! they disturb you in your normal day work!

so, i guess this all just became so big because of the information politic from CCP side.
and i have a proposal... dear kennys and goonies... what about jumping into your ships again and beat the hell out of each other?
i like your flame wars...but actually...last few days showed up enough flamewars for the complet rest of year ;-)
so concentrate again on what the game was made for and entertain us as soon as possible with new battlereports (btw, there you can flame each other again!).

fly save

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 14:43:00 - [708]
 

Don't care much about the renaming, BOB or Goons, do care about CCP adhering to their own rules.

CCP breaking their own rules is stupid, but considering what was done (a namechange), minor.

CCP breaking their own rules *on this issue knowing the history of BOB, Goons etc* is just poor, poor PR on the part of CCP.

I haven't really wondered before if some people get preferential treatment in EVE, I am starting to wonder now.


Ironnight
x13
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 14:47:00 - [709]
 

Originally by: Lunas Feelgood


Any normal rationel human being can see this but I think alot of Kenzuko members need to step back from the game abit since I think you hate/anger towards Goons has clouded you judgement..



Well you know I did notice a lot of petty people in this thread, however I think you got the sides confused, or maybe you are just trying to be a good pet.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.03.26 14:51:00 - [710]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista

The only goon on the CSM is Darius Jonhson.
There's an alternative who is in the GS alliance too.


Did you get accepted by Snigg in the end by the way LaVista? (combat alt I mean obviously?) Just curious.

And while on the subject - I think we've kinda got away from the remaining point of this thread:

Back on page 4 I asked...

***

Quote:
GM Grimmi.

Will you be renaming the Band of Brothers alt-corp currently controlled by the Goonswarm alliance and allowing the original Band of Brothers leadership to re-establish their alliance name by paying 1billion isk?

I understand there is precedent for this process (see Cult of War) and would you agree with me that allowing Band of Brothers leadership their alliance identity back with zero sovereignty and the appropriate alliance formation payment would be the appropriate and fair resolution of this case?

I think you have correctly reached the conclusion that one part of this resolution (kenzoku into band of brothers reloaded) was incorrectly handled.

Will you now ensure that the other part of the resolution (failing to remove/rename the goonswarm identity blocking corp) will also now be rectified.

Thanks in advance.



Could you please ensure this question is asked of CCP when they consult with the CSM LaVista?

Doctor Penguin
Amarr
Sacred Templars
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 15:16:00 - [711]
 

Put it up on the Assembly Hall, Jade?

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 15:18:00 - [712]
 

Originally by: Arnhelm Maas
Originally by: Sir JoJo
So ccp have lost all credibility they had left,

making a bad decision in some eyes is one thing but then reversing due to threadnughts and whine makes u look soo incompotent its actually funny!

GJ Goons/NC/PL and friends uve prooved that if u enough ppl u can make u own rules in this game!


What's really funny is that when your leaders were prattling on about how the Band of Brothers name was unimportant to them, it was the pilots that mattered, and blah-blah-hurf-blurf, they were frantically petitioning CCP to get it back. So the upshot of this whole sorry little episode is that the BoB/Kenny high command is once again exposed as a pack of liars.


1 Petition submitted the day it happened... 2 months ago. Yep, sounds frantic...

http://dictionary.com Here is a link for you, perhaps you can choose a reasonable word next time. Or you can continue to be simple minded and call people liars, your choice Wink

I love when people who lack the facts feel compelled to post as if they are "in the know". Very Happy

EliteSlave
Minmatar
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.03.26 15:19:00 - [713]
 

Edited by: EliteSlave on 26/03/2009 15:21:42
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: LaVista Vista

The only goon on the CSM is Darius Jonhson.
There's an alternative who is in the GS alliance too.


Did you get accepted by Snigg in the end by the way LaVista? (combat alt I mean obviously?) Just curious.

And while on the subject - I think we've kinda got away from the remaining point of this thread:

Back on page 4 I asked...

***

Quote:
GM Grimmi.

Will you be renaming the Band of Brothers alt-corp currently controlled by the Goonswarm alliance and allowing the original Band of Brothers leadership to re-establish their alliance name by paying 1billion isk?

I understand there is precedent for this process (see Cult of War) and would you agree with me that allowing Band of Brothers leadership their alliance identity back with zero sovereignty and the appropriate alliance formation payment would be the appropriate and fair resolution of this case?

I think you have correctly reached the conclusion that one part of this resolution (kenzoku into band of brothers reloaded) was incorrectly handled.

Will you now ensure that the other part of the resolution (failing to remove/rename the goonswarm identity blocking corp) will also now be rectified.

Thanks in advance.



Could you please ensure this question is asked of CCP when they consult with the CSM LaVista?



Jade you are an Idiot seriously, COW lost their name due to the fact they did not pay their bills. and just so happend someone was quick enough to catch it and block it. That is why the name change occurred. But this wasnt a matter of alliance bills not being paid.

With no Offense to Goonswarm,

This is a matter of an Alliance Director that was in BOB that said eff BoB and left with a Bang and Dissolved the Alliance and Goon made a Corp to block the recreation of said Alliance, Check Mate really. And then BOB joined kenny, and then petitioned to have Kenny renamed. And then the GM didnt see the creation date of Kenny being Months before the fiasco. Which should have been the first thing before the whole renaming process occurred. And the Name change did not Occur any temporary loss of Sov / 1b isk for the remake of the Alliance. Then the whole of Eve, not just GS / NC / PL did the whole " Oh No you didn't just do that" routine. But you are way too thick headed to realize this.

You will realize that you are insignificant to the matters of Eve and should just go quietly into the dark and just STFU as you are nothing to this universe. you did nothing in CSM, you failed at it, you were a running joke of the CSM, you are just plain worthless.

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 15:21:00 - [714]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista

Quote:
We joined the alt alliance since we were awaiting CCP's judgement if the disbanding of BOB was legitimate or not.

CCP's stance always was that it was legitimate.

Quote:
We joined quickly mostly because sov workings forced us to join an alliance as quick as possible. When we found out BOB was legitimatly disbanded it was a few days into the whole delve struggle, and rejoining another alliance would have set our sov counters back another week or so.

You just contradicted Avon, didn't you?

Quote:
Hence the petition to have our name changed.


You knew that if you waited and created a new alliance, the sov timer would be screwed. But you went ahead and joined KenZoku, hoping that CCP would change your name.

The question is, why did you expect them to?

Quote:
So we petitioned it because sov game mechanics forced us to join any alliance available while awaiting the decision on the legitimacy of the disband. Quite simple really.

Your alliance was disbanded trough legitimate mechanics. You had 2 options, both with pros and cons. But you went with the way that was easier, and then hoped that CCP would help you out.

You knew how sov works. They DIDN'T force you to join any available alliance. You chose to. Sure, you would lose sov timers and stuff, but that's EVE. EVE is a harsh place. Because a director corrupted, bad things happened to you.

It's simple. Either you kept sov(Well, whatever was left of it) or you got the name you wanted. It's a simple tradeoff. Contacting CCP, asking them to help you with overcome an inherent feature of a mechanic that is working as intended, doesn't seem right to me.




So what you are saying is.... since it occured in the past with other alliances and a precedent had been set, simply because we are Bob we should not even ask?

Remember, thats all we did was ask what the rule was.

Good lord, I love how we are cheaters for asking.

Please CCP, please give us all visibility into ALL petitions so we can go through all of them and call each person that submits a petition a cheater. Very Happy

I love the spin doctors in here.

Dave PSI
Haendlergilde
Gilde Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 15:25:00 - [715]
 

Dear CCP, why don't you take this chance and work the whole alliance system a bit over.

simply add some features:

1) add an automatic payment system, or at least a warning before it is disbanded because of a missed bill
2) add a feature to rename an alliance, and simply add some "concord" or whatever costs for it of 1 bil
3) add a vote/shares for disbanding/kicking corps for an alliance, that seems to be a little bit unbalanced (you did that for T2 BPOs (locking), so why not do it again?)
4) ...




Arch Ville
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.03.26 15:28:00 - [716]
 

Originally by: Xaen
Oh my god, you killed resurrected kenny!


How do you use those colorful letters?Very Happy

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2009.03.26 15:28:00 - [717]
 



Quote:
Did you get accepted by Snigg in the end by the way LaVista? (combat alt I mean obviously?) Just curious.


I was offered an interview, but turned it down because of a few reasons. I haven't pvp'ed in a long time either, been too busy


Quote:
Could you please ensure this question is asked of CCP when they consult with the CSM LaVista?


Well. I'm curious what kind of response you expect of them. They don't usually discuss this kind of thing.

CCP has requested a timeslot at our upcoming meeting on April 5th to discuss naming policies. If people think it's a desirable thing that CCP addresses the case in it's entirety, then I think it's fair that we ask them to do so.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.03.26 15:29:00 - [718]
 

Edited by: Avon on 26/03/2009 15:31:41
Originally by: Andrei Vassaliev


Blame Avon, not Goons.
What I want are rules that are enforced fairly and equally. If something is not allowed, then it should be the same for everyone.

In which case we can fully expect the name of Band of Brothers to be made available for us to use if we so wish, as has happened previously?
Or don't you think that rules should be enforced fairly and equally?

Also, you are quoting a thread about racism. If you think racism is fine then continue to quote, otherwise consider the context of your quotes very carefully.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2009.03.26 15:33:00 - [719]
 

Quote:

So what you are saying is.... since it occured in the past with other alliances and a precedent had been set, simply because we are Bob we should not even ask?

You are free to ask. However based on the facts that has been put forward by different people, it is my view that it wouldn't be worth the time, as CCP in the perfect world, should say no.

Quote:
Remember, thats all we did was ask what the rule was.


That doesn't really add up with all the other information that's out there.

Quote:
Good lord, I love how we are cheaters for asking.


Now you are just being unreasonable. I never suggested that you are cheaters. I just think that maybe CCP overlooked a few things. Nothing bad on your part, I don't hate bob.

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 15:36:00 - [720]
 

Originally by: EliteSlave
Jade you are an Idiot seriously, COW lost their name due to the fact they did not pay their bills. and just so happend someone was quick enough to catch it and block it. That is why the name change occurred. But this wasnt a matter of alliance bills not being paid.



The only difference between Cow and BOB was that they had an unpayed Bill, we were deliberatley disbanded. The abilty to get our alliance name back renames the exact same. The reason that COW got their name back was because another corporation had blocked them, the same situation as us. A petition was filed and granted for them.

We petitioned under the exact same reason, we failed to read anywhere in the rulebooks that says "if your alliance is disbanded by another alliance then these precedent does not apply to you".

Since Goonswarm, MM et al seem to be experts on the very definition on alliance changes, could you kindly post all the variations where a name change is appropriate and where it is not?

Oh I can't wait for the replies I will get about "you knew you would lose SOV" by changing it this week thats why you petitioned" and "you talked to your insiders at ccp". Very Happy


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