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Orree
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:16:00 - [301]
 

Originally by: Nick Curso
Edited by: Nick Curso on 25/03/2009 18:51:20
lol Seriously I wanna titan everyone cry enough to get me one please :)

You guys brought this behaviour on yourselves CCP caving time and again to spamming enjoy.

GL next time there's something ppl don't like.



CCP did nothing of the sort. What they did do is take an action that was against stated policy, precedcent and in circumvention of game mechanics...get called on it, and then did the right thing--- reversed the action that was in error.

Now, you can characterize it as "caving to spam" if brazenly showing your bias doesn't bother you (I'll assume it doesn't), but that doesn't make it so. you entire post is childish, to be honest.

No one forced you geniuses to jump right into the KenZoku entity. That hasty decision was the choice of your leaders. There were pros and cons related to that decision. Bet that.

Loki L'Odin
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:16:00 - [302]
 

This will get swamped but im gonna give it a try.

Terrible decision by ccp to reverse their previous decision, simply because goons flood a thread with whines.

It just doesn't look professional at all and personally it's lowered my view of them(CCP), goons view couldn't get any lower.

Thought the CSM was made to try and stop CCP doing fail things in-game?

Lizhia Birath
Minmatar
AzTra Logistics
QUAFE Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:18:00 - [303]
 

Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 25/03/2009 21:06:51
Originally by: Clone 1
At least Avon will be happy, thats the old 2005 Avon, not the new Avon.



Honestly I wasn't overly concerned either way.
Now we have the situation where CCP are selectively enforcing rules in favour of Goonswarm's name squatting, going against previous descisions.
That was the whole problem in the first place.
The only "fair and equitable" resolution would have been an immediate descision to allow BoB to reform under their old name, which we would have done. As that option was not on the table due to delays, we had to take action in order to resolve standing problems mostly. Sov would have worked out the same anyway - our towers would have been claiming no matter what name we formed under. Kenny was a convenience, a short term fix while CCP decided what they were going to do.
Precedent indicated that the name would have been returned to us, but it would seem that CCP decided to go against that for some reason.

If you are trying to make out I should have been as worked up over this as I was about racism in 2005, I don't agree.


Besides, at least now I don't have to change my sig.


But your friend a few posts or pages back said you joined Ken coz your corporations were wardecced thus preventing you from creating a new allaince? What would it have helped if CCP would have taken BoB away from goons ( after they made the hostile take over with low but hilarius and ingame means)? You would still be without a alliance. And why not have created band of brothers reloaded from the start if it made no difference to you sov vise and then went ahead and petitioned to have the original name returned to you. Atleast that way you would have had the "second choice name" had the petition failed.

I seem to remember Kenzoku having sov in a few systems straight off the bat thou, so one might argue that you joined Kenzoku just to kling on to sov in the few systems you could.. But I dont remember exactly if that was the case.

Boknamar
Gallente
Quality Control.
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:21:00 - [304]
 

Edited by: Boknamar on 25/03/2009 21:22:14
Originally by: Akelorian
Originally by: Boknamar

I am happy playing and I respect CCP enormously, and I am not afraid to talk about it to others. In fact, I am personally responsible for several of their current subscriptions. But I can't accept what you seem to imply, that we are under some kind of moral obligation to make sure that CCP succeeds as a company and that it's our fault if they suffer bad consequences from their mistakes.

CCP often rightly gets good publicity for cutting-edge features and unique game concepts.

When they screw up like they did here, they will get some bad publicity. That is on them, not us.


Actually it is on the players who pay for the services they deliver. We can make or break this company, and it seems that you guys are more than eager to break it.


I don't think you have any basis for a statement of my motivations. What if I told you that when I talk about EVE to others, my comments are more than 99% positive, and that I have encouraged several people to subscribe who are now full-time veteran players? Would you disbelieve me because it's convenient for your point of view to do so?

In the long term, I really think this might be good for CCP. Speaking for myself, when I'm talking about EVE in the future, instead of saying that CCP has been prone to show favoritism to a particular group of players, I can now say with great pleasure that they listen to their playerbase and try to run a fair outfit. Nothing kills a game quite like the perception of arbitrary "tyrant devs," and that's the impression much of the gaming world could have gotten if this had gone untouched.

nikhan
Igneus Auctorita
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:21:00 - [305]
 

Well now they can disband and feel free to create whatever alliance they like. Thanks for making the right decision ccp

King Slender
Slender Corp
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:22:00 - [306]
 

Originally by: Ironnight
Good god this is lame, well guess whinning works, congrats to all the crybabies.


Winning does work. You and KenGoku should try it sometime.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:25:00 - [307]
 

So ... BoB petitioned right after they got disbanded. CCP took more than their time and considered that case very carefully and after two months of thorough investigation they decided to grant the petition.

Goons learn about the petition and pull some of their connections and the next day the petition is reversed, telling us that the results and facts of two months investigation which were presented to us just one day ago are all fraud and invalid and therefore the originally granted petition must be declined now.

THIS STINKS!!!



I call for Internal Affairs. A more obvious and blunt misconduct I haven't seen in here.


Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:28:00 - [308]
 

Edited by: Avon on 25/03/2009 21:29:55
Originally by: Lizhia Birath

I seem to remember Kenzoku having sov in a few systems straight off the bat thou, so one might argue that you joined Kenzoku just to kling on to sov in the few systems you could.. But I dont remember exactly if that was the case.

That is simply because corp towers which were already claiming sov continue to do so if you join another alliance, the 7 day mechanic does not apply in that case (and no, this is not a unique BoB feature, we knew it was likely to happen because we had heard of it happening before).

What people are overlooking is that at the time no-one knew how the situation would be resolved, or how fast.
Hindsight is 20/20, but at the time things were no-where near as clear.

Precedent indicated that The Band of Brothers corp would have its name changed so that we could reclaim it, so there seemed to be no particular reason to create fresh alliance when there was an alt alliance just floating around. It was a logistical convenience. Other than that, there was no special advantage to joining that alliance.

Orree
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:30:00 - [309]
 

Originally by: ArmyOfMe
dear god, sad to see goons can pressure ccp into everything they want like this.
clearly showes that if you spam enough on the forums you get your will



Nevermind what was done was wrong and reversing it was the correct thing to do, right?

C'mon, man...think about it.

I have no doubt that some of the people who had a problem with it did or said what they did out of spite, but there were a good number of people who were appalled at the action as being on contravention of the rules related to name changes (mainly that they simply rarely, if ever, allow them). The action that was taken circumvented game mechanics.

If Kenny wanted a new alliance name, all they had to do was pay the billion, form the alliance and have their corps join it...just like everyone else.

The number of Goon postings on the subject really has no bearing on the matter at hand other than perhaps being annoying.


Datakore
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:32:00 - [310]
 

Absolutely pathetic CCP


Shame.....shame.... clean up your act!

Talzaris
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:33:00 - [311]
 

Originally by: XoPhyte
Originally by: Professor Dumbledore

Then why didn't you make an alliance with the name you wanted 2 months ago?


Sigh, you guys should just listen to your own leaders MP3's. Because Goonswarm deliberately wardec'd us so that a new alliance could not be created and joined.


So you're saying that you were trying to circumvent in-game methods of proper alliance creation. If you wanted the name Band of Brothers Reloaded you should've created an alliance called Band of Brothers Reloaded with a non-wardec'd holding corp and had all your member corps join it. Not join a pre-existing alliance and try to get it renamed.

Contacting GM's to get them to help you is for when something in their game bugs out and extraordinary measures are needed to rectify it. Not when you just don't feel like following the proper in-game methods of playing.


Boknamar
Gallente
Quality Control.
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:33:00 - [312]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
So ... BoB petitioned right after they got disbanded. CCP took more than their time and considered that case very carefully and after two months of thorough investigation they decided to grant the petition.

Goons learn about the petition and pull some of their connections and the next day the petition is reversed, telling us that the results and facts of two months investigation which were presented to us just one day ago are all fraud and invalid and therefore the originally granted petition must be declined now.

THIS STINKS!!!



I call for Internal Affairs. A more obvious and blunt misconduct I haven't seen in here.




You can contact internal affairs to your heart's content, and I fully encourage you to do so

I don't think it will have much impact. My interpretation of the event is that they knew they were committing misconduct by renaming KenZoku, but it was minor enough that they thought nobody would care. For a variety of reasons, much of the community (not just Goons, their alts, and their allies, not matter how determined some people are to believe that) did care, and the result was CCP reversing their decision in a way that was concocted to avoid any direct admission of fault.

If I'm wrong, good luck with internal affairs, but I'm thinking they probably want this behind them like roadkill.


XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:35:00 - [313]
 

Edited by: XoPhyte on 25/03/2009 21:39:44
Originally by: Professor Dumbledore
Originally by: XoPhyte
Originally by: Professor Dumbledore

Then why didn't you make an alliance with the name you wanted 2 months ago?


Sigh, you guys should just listen to your own leaders MP3's. Because Goonswarm deliberately wardec'd us so that a new alliance could not be created and joined.


Well then why should you get special treatment? Someone could have easily created a new corp and then the alliance and then you could have joined that? but i guess that was too much :effort: for you.


Learn to read (or comprehend if you can read). I've been saying this entire time that there should not be special treatment. Confused

You asked a question, I responded to that question.

Talzaris
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:35:00 - [314]
 

Originally by: XoPhyte
Originally by: Professor Dumbledore

Then why didn't you make an alliance with the name you wanted 2 months ago?


Sigh, you guys should just listen to your own leaders MP3's. Because Goonswarm deliberately wardec'd us so that a new alliance could not be created and joined.


So you're saying that you were trying to circumvent in-game methods of proper alliance creation. If you wanted the name Band of Brothers Reloaded you should've created an alliance called Band of Brothers Reloaded with a non-wardec'd holding corp and had all your member corps join it. Not join a pre-existing alliance and try to get it renamed.

Contacting GM's to get them to help you is for when something in their game bugs out and extraordinary measures are needed to rectify it. Not when you just don't feel like following the proper in-game methods of playing.


Jazzebella
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:36:00 - [315]
 

Go Go GS.

Oh and thanks CCP for making the right decision in the end.

Poopsock Alarmclock
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:36:00 - [316]
 

Originally by: Gallente Price
Goddamn goon alts. This is like 90% goon alts, 5% disillusional people, and 5% real people.


protip: if the forum av says "Goonswarm" underneath it, it is an actual goon

Sir Marksalot
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:36:00 - [317]
 

Originally by: Talzaris
Originally by: XoPhyte
Originally by: Professor Dumbledore

Then why didn't you make an alliance with the name you wanted 2 months ago?


Sigh, you guys should just listen to your own leaders MP3's. Because Goonswarm deliberately wardec'd us so that a new alliance could not be created and joined.


So you're saying that you were trying to circumvent in-game methods of proper alliance creation. If you wanted the name Band of Brothers Reloaded you should've created an alliance called Band of Brothers Reloaded with a non-wardec'd holding corp and had all your member corps join it. Not join a pre-existing alliance and try to get it renamed.

Contacting GM's to get them to help you is for when something in their game bugs out and extraordinary measures are needed to rectify it. Not when you just don't feel like following the proper in-game methods of playing.




But... but... the proper ingame methods of playing are haaaaaaaaard.

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:36:00 - [318]
 

Originally by: Orree
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
dear god, sad to see goons can pressure ccp into everything they want like this.
clearly showes that if you spam enough on the forums you get your will



Nevermind what was done was wrong and reversing it was the correct thing to do, right?

C'mon, man...think about it.

I have no doubt that some of the people who had a problem with it did or said what they did out of spite, but there were a good number of people who were appalled at the action as being on contravention of the rules related to name changes (mainly that they simply rarely, if ever, allow them). The action that was taken circumvented game mechanics.

If Kenny wanted a new alliance name, all they had to do was pay the billion, form the alliance and have their corps join it...just like everyone else.

The number of Goon postings on the subject really has no bearing on the matter at hand other than perhaps being annoying.



sorry, but i see nothing really wrong with giving bob back their name, sure ccp could have handled this whole thing in a better way, but they didnt.
and whatever ccp would have choosen to do you can bet your ass there would still be 1000's of posts by goons crying out on the forums if it didnt go their way just like they allways do.

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:38:00 - [319]
 

Originally by: Loki L'Odin
This will get swamped but im gonna give it a try.

Terrible decision by ccp to reverse their previous decision, simply because goons flood a thread with whines.

It just doesn't look professional at all and personally it's lowered my view of them(CCP), goons view couldn't get any lower.

Thought the CSM was made to try and stop CCP doing fail things in-game?


It was obvious, that while many goons did indeed complain about it, so did many others. The initial dicision was very poorly justified and was infact a slap in the face to the stated naming policy. The goons had a legitimate grievance in this case. Unlike their opponents, they actually logically argued for their point of view. All the opposition could muster was basicly: LOL, look at the goons crying or goons lacked e-honor when they disbanded BOB, so bending the rules doesn't matter. Entertaining, but it's not going to convince anyone.

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:39:00 - [320]
 

Edited by: XoPhyte on 25/03/2009 21:43:48
Originally by: Talzaris
Contacting GM's to get them to help you is for when something in their game bugs out and extraordinary measures are needed to rectify it. Not when you just don't feel like following the proper in-game methods of playing.




So I guess the same should be said if you request your ship to be reimbursed?

Or how about capital ship arrays? Hmmm. I guess goonswarm has issued petitions for things to be changed as well...

Let me find those threadnaughts that we started where we call you cheaters.... Darn, can't find any. Rolling Eyes

Since we should be responsible for enforcing the rules, can I get on the CCP payroll please?

Also I love how a petition is "contacting the gm's" Very Happy Don't you guys get tired of the tinfoil?

Zzelle
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:39:00 - [321]
 

Originally by: Poopsock Alarmclock
Originally by: Gallente Price
Goddamn goon alts. This is like 90% goon alts, 5% disillusional people, and 5% real people.


protip: if the forum av says "Goonswarm" underneath it, it is an actual goon


Well... some of us belong to terrible pubbie corps and surely some are spies.

The best odds are that it is an actual goon posting though...

Ifni Zen
Minmatar
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:41:00 - [322]
 

Thank you CCP for taking the time to hear both sides and for being willing to re-evaluate a controversial decision.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:42:00 - [323]
 

Knew it would happen, CCP have shown themselves to be silly on occasion, but also usually recover in the end.

Lizhia Birath
Minmatar
AzTra Logistics
QUAFE Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:42:00 - [324]
 

Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 25/03/2009 21:29:55
Originally by: Lizhia Birath

I seem to remember Kenzoku having sov in a few systems straight off the bat thou, so one might argue that you joined Kenzoku just to kling on to sov in the few systems you could.. But I dont remember exactly if that was the case.

That is simply because corp towers which were already claiming sov continue to do so if you join another alliance, the 7 day mechanic does not apply in that case (and no, this is not a unique BoB feature, we knew it was likely to happen because we had heard of it happening before).

What people are overlooking is that at the time no-one knew how the situation would be resolved, or how fast.
Hindsight is 20/20, but at the time things were no-where near as clear.

Precedent indicated that The Band of Brothers corp would have its name changed so that we could reclaim it, so there seemed to be no particular reason to create fresh alliance when there was an alt alliance just floating around. It was a logistical convenience. Other than that, there was no special advantage to joining that alliance.


no I ment that Ken got sov right after BoB was disbanded not after the old bob corporations joined, thats the part thats a bit fuzzy, I do remember Ken getting sov in all systems pretty fast after ex-bob joined and that it was discussed as it seems not even god knows how the **** sov really works. And thus it could be claimed that ex.bob joined ken to get a few extra days of sov ticking in those systems.

Sir Marksalot
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:43:00 - [325]
 

Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Originally by: Loki L'Odin
This will get swamped but im gonna give it a try.

Terrible decision by ccp to reverse their previous decision, simply because goons flood a thread with whines.

It just doesn't look professional at all and personally it's lowered my view of them(CCP), goons view couldn't get any lower.

Thought the CSM was made to try and stop CCP doing fail things in-game?


It was obvious, that while many goons did indeed complain about it, so did many others. The initial dicision was very poorly justified and was infact a slap in the face to the stated naming policy. The goons had a legitimate grievance in this case. Unlike their opponents, they actually logically argued for their point of view. All the opposition could muster was basicly: LOL, look at the goons crying or goons lacked e-honor when they disbanded BOB, so bending the rules doesn't matter. Entertaining, but it's not going to convince anyone.


*gasp*
You're clearly siding with goons. You must be a goon alt.

Jack Gates
Gallente
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:45:00 - [326]
 

Edited by: Jack Gates on 25/03/2009 21:50:30
Thanks for playing fair CCP :3

Khlitouris RegusII
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:45:00 - [327]
 

Originally by: Loki L'Odin
This will get swamped but im gonna give it a try.

Terrible decision by ccp to reverse their previous decision, simply because goons flood a thread with whines.

It just doesn't look professional at all and personally it's lowered my view of them(CCP), goons view couldn't get any lower.

Thought the CSM was made to try and stop CCP doing fail things in-game?


It's a good job ccp didn't change there decision because of goons then but because they did the wrong thing in the first place and had the balls to admit to it.

Ivas
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:47:00 - [328]
 

Avon, serious question. What're your plans now? Stick under the RKZ banner or start the ball rolling on a new alliance?

Poopsock Alarmclock
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:47:00 - [329]
 

Originally by: XoPhyte
Originally by: Mrs Trzzbk

Look up T20.


You realize you are refering to something that occured 3+ years ago by 1 dev (in favor of Bob), however it was not Bob that "influenced" CCP (this one dev) to cheat?




this just in

alcoholics rate alcohol 10/10

film at 11

Caius Proximus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:49:00 - [330]
 

Edited by: Caius Proximus on 25/03/2009 21:49:43
Originally by: XoPhyte
Edited by: XoPhyte on 25/03/2009 21:43:48
Originally by: Talzaris
Contacting GM's to get them to help you is for when something in their game bugs out and extraordinary measures are needed to rectify it. Not when you just don't feel like following the proper in-game methods of playing.




So I guess the same should be said if you request your ship to be reimbursed?


If you know it was a legit loss but lie and say it was because of a server screw-up in case maybe you can slip one past CCP, no you shouldn't petition for your ships in that case.

The fact that you guys seem to treat petitioning as a game mechanic is pretty illuminating.


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