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BBQ Organizer
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2009.03.25 20:40:00 - [271]
 

they dont have the same name as before bobr correct?

Lubsmelongtime
Posted - 2009.03.25 20:40:00 - [272]
 

Well it looks like the argument was not worked out properly at all from CCP's perspective. If sound it out was what they were doing why did they not tell us? Instead they present it as a decision and we go through the arguments for them. They check the facts since we cannot prove anything. They find the best argument and then fit the facts and bingo they sound good......

Seriously CCP it took you two months to make the wrong decision - now suddenly when you see the arguments you think you made all of a sudden the right decision.

Now you descend into farce.

Goonswarm and Kenny are making fools of you.

Spineless in the extreme - sorry CCP but this is really poor.

As for goons and Kenny fans - seriously guys all of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Its a joke. CCP is a joke and so is Eve.... Rolling Eyes

Itzena
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.03.25 20:40:00 - [273]
 

Originally by: XoPhyte
Edited by: XoPhyte on 25/03/2009 20:36:08
Nitpicking? Just pointed out it occured 3 years ago. It was 1 dev who acted on his own. I'm sure these facts are of no interest to you.

We asking CCP buddies to cheat? Very Happy Seriously? Yes, we cheated by asking CCP to change our alliance name 2 months ago when the change initially occured Rolling Eyes

Funny how all the Kennies neglect to mention the whole "Name change should mean sovereignty loss" thing.

Mind you, they've lost so much space already you'd think losing the last handful of non-station systems in the backwoods of Delve wouldn't be such a big deal for them.

Kinet
Ragged Rock Industries
Posted - 2009.03.25 20:41:00 - [274]
 

When other alliances lost their name and it was taken the procedure was to give the name back, lets start there. Give BOB a choice, remain as Kenzoku or disband, pay 1bn and get the BOB name back.

Next, ask all CCP employees to stop playing in these two alliances. What you are doing is NOT working, the system continues to get abused and you continue to look like corrupt developers. Who is going to come play this game when ambulation goes in if the public views it as a cheat-box for devs? I'm all for devs playing the game but this just continues to get out of hand. If there are no devs in these alliances then no one can complain. I know it sucks, I'm a professor at a state college and for some reason they wont let me date the hot students. It stinks, but the rules are there for a reason guys, how about you join the rest of the professional world and put some policies in place to protect your products integrity?


XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.25 20:43:00 - [275]
 

Edited by: XoPhyte on 25/03/2009 20:50:43
Originally by: Itzena
Originally by: XoPhyte
Edited by: XoPhyte on 25/03/2009 20:36:08
Nitpicking? Just pointed out it occured 3 years ago. It was 1 dev who acted on his own. I'm sure these facts are of no interest to you.

We asking CCP buddies to cheat? Very Happy Seriously? Yes, we cheated by asking CCP to change our alliance name 2 months ago when the change initially occured Rolling Eyes

Funny how all the Kennies neglect to mention the whole "Name change should mean sovereignty loss" thing.

Mind you, they've lost so much space already you'd think losing the last handful of non-station systems in the backwoods of Delve wouldn't be such a big deal for them.


Let me bold and underline the point you missed here...

Originally by: XoPhyte
Yes, we cheated by asking CCP to change our alliance name 2 months ago when the change initially occured Rolling Eyes


Just in case you are still confused, SOV was already reset at this point. It took CCP 2 months to come to a decision, we didn't just request this 3 days ago

Grek Forto
Crosshair Corp
Posted - 2009.03.25 20:48:00 - [276]
 

I appriciate that you've done this, BUT (there is a but). NEVER PAT KENZOKU (as they will be known as from now on!!!!) on the back in a manner diffrent from how you pat other people on the back.

Equal rights! Equal rules!

Professor Dumbledore
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.03.25 20:51:00 - [277]
 

Originally by: XoPhyte
Edited by: XoPhyte on 25/03/2009 20:50:43
Originally by: Itzena
Originally by: XoPhyte
Edited by: XoPhyte on 25/03/2009 20:36:08
Nitpicking? Just pointed out it occured 3 years ago. It was 1 dev who acted on his own. I'm sure these facts are of no interest to you.

We asking CCP buddies to cheat? Very Happy Seriously? Yes, we cheated by asking CCP to change our alliance name 2 months ago when the change initially occured Rolling Eyes

Funny how all the Kennies neglect to mention the whole "Name change should mean sovereignty loss" thing.

Mind you, they've lost so much space already you'd think losing the last handful of non-station systems in the backwoods of Delve wouldn't be such a big deal for them.


Let me bold and underline the point you missed here...

Originally by: XoPhyte
Yes, we cheated by asking CCP to change our alliance name 2 months ago when the change initially occured Rolling Eyes


Just in case you are still confused, SOV was already reset at this point. It took CCP 2 months to come to a decision, we didn't just request this 3 days ago


Then why didn't you make an alliance with the name you wanted 2 months ago?

5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2009.03.25 20:53:00 - [278]
 

Heh, Kenzuko still missing the point I see.

After BOB disbanded they joined the alt alliance Kenzuko that had existed months before the specific point that BOB got disbanded. The point now CCP even see.

It had Sov in place, it had all been setup and organised, yet you wanted to rename via the petition you put in place the moment BOB got Disbanded.

How old the petition is goes against you more then for you in my eyes, as it shows you preempted getting around the alliance mechanics.

You almost got away with it too.

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.25 20:53:00 - [279]
 

Originally by: Professor Dumbledore

Then why didn't you make an alliance with the name you wanted 2 months ago?


Sigh, you guys should just listen to your own leaders MP3's. Because Goonswarm deliberately wardec'd us so that a new alliance could not be created and joined.

Akelorian
Caldari
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.03.25 20:54:00 - [280]
 

Originally by: Xianbei

nothing to do with goonies; i am not a goon. personally their posting it atrocious and i get so sick of reading forums because of them.
but, you are changing the subject from a valid complaint that many players were upset about into a goonie attack because your argument has no other leg to stand on.
the CoW incident was not the same; the BoB incident was in game mechanics and legit.
but you know all this already and trolling goonies is something you are starting to enjoy more than logging in and playing the game.



I don't troll, I am mearly stateing facts. That if this was the real world, lets say Target buys out Walmart, and decides to remove that name and flag it as bullseye instead, would you, or anyother person complain, and argue, and whine that its not fair, that the corporation has done some wrong doing, but labeling them as corporate ****'s for not keeping the walmart name? I highly doubt that. CCP took two months, investigating, then upon review decided to change the alliance name, for what reason they only know. After that was completed look at all the threads of outcries of people pointing fingers at this company, whom provides us the public, an entertainment service for 14.95 a month, that in most part everyone enjoys. That does not require anyone of us to purchase expansions to this game like other company's do.

I just see this as nothing but a thread of goonie and supporters tears, people whom have been brainwashed and lied too, and are just attempting to cause this corporation hardship, and possibly inflicting financial problems. How many people would have quit over this had ccp not reverted its decision? How many forums has this been brought up on, and has caused numerous possible subscribers to think again over joining "OUR" community? The fall out of these claims of favortism will impact ccp, and eve-online. Not only for them, but for the rest of us, meaning no new players to meet, old ones to leave, and shifting the population growth to a decline instead.

The accusations that are being tossed about this subject are more than just impacting the current playerbase.

So everyone grab a box of tissues, wipe away the tears, ask a friend for a hug to comfort you, and just stop with these silly and unfounded accusations. They reverted the change to make the general public happy, now run along and all those posts that were made bashing CCP as a company on its own, reply to them that you apologize, that your emo rants were out of context, that our cries were dealt with, and that CCP did what you wanted.

In the years that I have played this game, I have enjoyed every aspect, never paying heed to the political or corporate complaints that have been made. But now its just getting out of hand. And my friends, you all must put down your pitch-forks, your torches and break off from the lynch mob you have formed, and instead of trying to destroy this game, and this company's name. Spread word of the good things, and times you've had.

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.25 20:56:00 - [281]
 

Edited by: XoPhyte on 25/03/2009 20:56:41
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
How old the petition is goes against you more then for you in my eyes, as it shows you preempted getting around the alliance mechanics.

You almost got away with it too.


Sadly you miss the point. People have a right to petition a change in the game (ie, a ship reimbursment). It is CCP's job to know and enforce the rules and should have simply denied the request.

I sure hope that next time someone petitions ANYTHING you tell that person that they are not above the rules.

SocialPolice
Posted - 2009.03.25 20:56:00 - [282]
 

Originally by: Poopsock Alarmclock
Edited by: Poopsock Alarmclock on 25/03/2009 19:06:41
Congrats to GM Grimmi and CCP for making the right call after reviewing the facts.

I would also like to take this opportunity to welcome our latest addition to the Goonswarm Alliance, Band of Brothers Reloaded!




This is why i cant understand why anyone, least of all CCP, takes you seriously in any way.

Its like everyone of you is a child screaming "MY TOY" and snatching anything you can, and then throwing a tantrum when you dont get it and screaming and whining all over the boards. EVE was great without you, for a while you were amusing, then annoying, then mostly gone (which was good). Now youre just aggravating again.

Hurry up secure delve and then un-sub again, Im tired of the Goons again.

WaltDisney
Posted - 2009.03.25 20:58:00 - [283]
 

Wow, CCP great job first with new expansion!

Also great job with willing to look at the whole renaming issue. I am not a goonie or Bobbie, just a carebear trying to build his own DisneyUniverse.
So I have no sides on who win. But I do support TOTAL fairplay in this game following rules till they are changed (which is ccp right to do).

So big thumbs up!

P.S. to Goonswarm you won but I politely suggest that the use of the old [BoB corp in forums posting be used lightly. (putting salt in wound idea).

To Kenny hey you don't have much sov. anyway create a new name (just be careful, no takebacks.

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.25 20:58:00 - [284]
 

Originally by: Poopsock Alarmclock
Edited by: Poopsock Alarmclock on 25/03/2009 19:06:41
I would also like to take this opportunity to welcome our latest addition to the Goonswarm Alliance, Band of Brothers Reloaded!



Goonswarm sure are afraid of a name! Shocked

5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:00:00 - [285]
 

Well I bet it was just for the lulz, god knows I PMSL when I saw it on page 1.

Boknamar
Gallente
Quality Control.
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:02:00 - [286]
 

Originally by: Akelorian
Originally by: Xianbei

nothing to do with goonies; i am not a goon. personally their posting it atrocious and i get so sick of reading forums because of them.
but, you are changing the subject from a valid complaint that many players were upset about into a goonie attack because your argument has no other leg to stand on.
the CoW incident was not the same; the BoB incident was in game mechanics and legit.
but you know all this already and trolling goonies is something you are starting to enjoy more than logging in and playing the game.



I don't troll, I am mearly stateing facts. That if this was the real world, lets say Target buys out Walmart, and decides to remove that name and flag it as bullseye instead, would you, or anyother person complain, and argue, and whine that its not fair, that the corporation has done some wrong doing, but labeling them as corporate ****'s for not keeping the walmart name? I highly doubt that. CCP took two months, investigating, then upon review decided to change the alliance name, for what reason they only know. After that was completed look at all the threads of outcries of people pointing fingers at this company, whom provides us the public, an entertainment service for 14.95 a month, that in most part everyone enjoys. That does not require anyone of us to purchase expansions to this game like other company's do.

I just see this as nothing but a thread of goonie and supporters tears, people whom have been brainwashed and lied too, and are just attempting to cause this corporation hardship, and possibly inflicting financial problems. How many people would have quit over this had ccp not reverted its decision? How many forums has this been brought up on, and has caused numerous possible subscribers to think again over joining "OUR" community? The fall out of these claims of favortism will impact ccp, and eve-online. Not only for them, but for the rest of us, meaning no new players to meet, old ones to leave, and shifting the population growth to a decline instead.

The accusations that are being tossed about this subject are more than just impacting the current playerbase.

So everyone grab a box of tissues, wipe away the tears, ask a friend for a hug to comfort you, and just stop with these silly and unfounded accusations. They reverted the change to make the general public happy, now run along and all those posts that were made bashing CCP as a company on its own, reply to them that you apologize, that your emo rants were out of context, that our cries were dealt with, and that CCP did what you wanted.

In the years that I have played this game, I have enjoyed every aspect, never paying heed to the political or corporate complaints that have been made. But now its just getting out of hand. And my friends, you all must put down your pitch-forks, your torches and break off from the lynch mob you have formed, and instead of trying to destroy this game, and this company's name. Spread word of the good things, and times you've had.


I am happy playing and I respect CCP enormously, and I am not afraid to talk about it to others. In fact, I am personally responsible for several of their current subscriptions. But I can't accept what you seem to imply, that we are under some kind of moral obligation to make sure that CCP succeeds as a company and that it's our fault if they suffer bad consequences from their mistakes.

CCP often rightly gets good publicity for cutting-edge features and unique game concepts.

When they screw up like they did here, they will get some bad publicity. That is on them, not us.

Momoha
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:03:00 - [287]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie

Either you are complete idiots (because you didn't know after TWO MONTHS of investigation that KenZoku was created several months before BoB was disbanded) or you are utter morons (because you just do what the loudest whiners on the forums demand) or you just lied about the reasons why you changed and re-changed the names.


Why can't you accept that the original decision was completely and utterly ridiculous, while showing CCP's obvious favoritism for BoB? They had to reverse it because we called them on how they were essentially allowing BoB to cheat. It had zero precedent, zero justification, zero logic.

Khlitouris RegusII
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:04:00 - [288]
 

Originally by: SocialPolice
Originally by: Poopsock Alarmclock
Edited by: Poopsock Alarmclock on 25/03/2009 19:06:41
Congrats to GM Grimmi and CCP for making the right call after reviewing the facts.

I would also like to take this opportunity to welcome our latest addition to the Goonswarm Alliance, Band of Brothers Reloaded!




I doubt ccp do take goons seriously, thankfully they do take there playerbase who felt that showing favouritism yet again to one group of players was unfair seriously, and not only that admitted there mistake and corrected it.

This is why i cant understand why anyone, least of all CCP, takes you seriously in any way.

Its like everyone of you is a child screaming "MY TOY" and snatching anything you can, and then throwing a tantrum when you dont get it and screaming and whining all over the boards. EVE was great without you, for a while you were amusing, then annoying, then mostly gone (which was good). Now youre just aggravating again.

Hurry up secure delve and then un-sub again, Im tired of the Goons again.

Venomire
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:04:00 - [289]
 

Originally by: XoPhyte
Goonswarm sure are afraid of a name! Shocked

We control your game.

Retepp Nedsmul
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:04:00 - [290]
 

Thumbs up!

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:05:00 - [291]
 

Edited by: Avon on 25/03/2009 21:06:51
Originally by: Clone 1
At least Avon will be happy, thats the old 2005 Avon, not the new Avon.



Honestly I wasn't overly concerned either way.
Now we have the situation where CCP are selectively enforcing rules in favour of Goonswarm's name squatting, going against previous descisions.
That was the whole problem in the first place.
The only "fair and equitable" resolution would have been an immediate descision to allow BoB to reform under their old name, which we would have done. As that option was not on the table due to delays, we had to take action in order to resolve standing problems mostly. Sov would have worked out the same anyway - our towers would have been claiming no matter what name we formed under. Kenny was a convenience, a short term fix while CCP decided what they were going to do.
Precedent indicated that the name would have been returned to us, but it would seem that CCP decided to go against that for some reason.

If you are trying to make out I should have been as worked up over this as I was about racism in 2005, I don't agree.


Besides, at least now I don't have to change my sig.

Atlas Oracle
Minmatar
Colossus Enterprises
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:06:00 - [292]
 

Originally by: SocialPolice
This is why i cant understand why anyone, least of all CCP, takes you seriously in any way.

Its like everyone of you is a child screaming "MY TOY" and snatching anything you can, and then throwing a tantrum when you dont get it and screaming and whining all over the boards. EVE was great without you, for a while you were amusing, then annoying, then mostly gone (which was good). Now youre just aggravating again.

Hurry up secure delve and then un-sub again, Im tired of the Goons again.


well said. i agree.

Skoot
Local Threat
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:09:00 - [293]
 

Its really funny that they are stuck with that crappy name now.

Reilly Jax
Amarr
Freespace Technologies
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:09:00 - [294]
 

Originally by: XoPhyte
Originally by: Professor Dumbledore

Then why didn't you make an alliance with the name you wanted 2 months ago?


Sigh, you guys should just listen to your own leaders MP3's. Because Goonswarm deliberately wardec'd us so that a new alliance could not be created and joined.


why would that be a problem, you could just get together and crush those pesky goons into oblivion. then they'd drop the wardecs and you guys would be able to reform your alliance under what ever alliance you wish! Im not seeing the problem, you guys are the Elite of the Elite of eve pod pilots... a few newbs in t1 fit battleships shouldn't effect you at all...Rolling Eyes

Smacktalking Alt
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:10:00 - [295]
 

Originally by: Skoot
Its really funny that they are stuck with that crappy name now.


Exactly. They now have to follow the same rules as everyone else to get a new one. For them, this is an unprecedented handicap. Laughing

Akelorian
Caldari
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:11:00 - [296]
 

Originally by: Boknamar

I am happy playing and I respect CCP enormously, and I am not afraid to talk about it to others. In fact, I am personally responsible for several of their current subscriptions. But I can't accept what you seem to imply, that we are under some kind of moral obligation to make sure that CCP succeeds as a company and that it's our fault if they suffer bad consequences from their mistakes.

CCP often rightly gets good publicity for cutting-edge features and unique game concepts.

When they screw up like they did here, they will get some bad publicity. That is on them, not us.


Actually it is on the players who pay for the services they deliver. We can make or break this company, and it seems that you guys are more than eager to break it.

Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:11:00 - [297]
 

Edited by: Ben Derindar on 25/03/2009 21:13:39
Originally by: GM Grimmi
Ultimately, we felt we had no other recourse than to reverse the name change, the key factor being that during this re-investigation we learned that the KenZoku alliance was created several months before the BoB alliance leadership switched hands.

What the hell?

You mean to tell me that in two months of considering the validity of this petition the first time around, nobody thought to check a detail as fundamental as the KenZoku alliance creation date?

The end result is fine, but the whole debacle along the way really doesn't paint CCP's investigative processes in a positive light at all. ugh

/Ben

The Qat
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:13:00 - [298]
 

Originally by: SocialPolice
Originally by: Poopsock Alarmclock
Edited by: Poopsock Alarmclock on 25/03/2009 19:06:41
Congrats to GM Grimmi and CCP for making the right call after reviewing the facts.

I would also like to take this opportunity to welcome our latest addition to the Goonswarm Alliance, Band of Brothers Reloaded!




This is why i cant understand why anyone, least of all CCP, takes you seriously in any way.

Its like everyone of you is a child screaming "MY TOY" and snatching anything you can, and then throwing a tantrum when you dont get it and screaming and whining all over the boards. EVE was great without you, for a while you were amusing, then annoying, then mostly gone (which was good). Now youre just aggravating again.

Hurry up secure delve and then un-sub again, Im tired of the Goons again.


psst--goons aren't meant to be taken seriously by other players

Momoha
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:14:00 - [299]
 

Originally by: Ben Derindar


The end result is fine, but the whole debacle along the way really doesn't paint CCP's investigative processes in a positive light at all. ugh



BoB pets don't use logic. Very surprising.

Professor Dumbledore
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.03.25 21:15:00 - [300]
 

Originally by: XoPhyte
Originally by: Professor Dumbledore

Then why didn't you make an alliance with the name you wanted 2 months ago?


Sigh, you guys should just listen to your own leaders MP3's. Because Goonswarm deliberately wardec'd us so that a new alliance could not be created and joined.


Well then why should you get special treatment? Someone could have easily created a new corp and then the alliance and then you could have joined that? but i guess that was too much :effort: for you.


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