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Starship Enterprizes
Posted - 2009.03.27 22:35:00 - [961]
 

Ok

I have been away for a week and got bk playing to find out that you or going to nerf Ecm what i have spent the last 6-7 months training for im not happy about this being a falcon pilot range is there only defence can i just ask if the future of pvp is going to be done on the forums

Noob gets himself killed Noob Conplains he got killed by group with a ewar ship CCp nerf ships that killed him noob goes bk kills them in a noob ship first cruise missile nerf then more nerfs now this

All i can say is roll on Jumpgate Evolution the new eve were codemasters dont lisen to noobs

Canaloney Soup
Posted - 2009.03.27 22:48:00 - [962]
 

Plez CCP can you make eve into gank & tank, Shocked oops my bad you already r Laughing.

Eve = SWG FTW Razz

TheLibrarian
Minmatar
Tides Of War
Posted - 2009.03.27 22:58:00 - [963]
 

Edited by: TheLibrarian on 27/03/2009 23:02:26
Edited by: TheLibrarian on 27/03/2009 23:00:04
Edited by: TheLibrarian on 27/03/2009 22:59:29
Originally by: Johan Sabbat
Originally by: Ellatan Deruimte
Originally by: Johan Sabbat
Edited by: Johan Sabbat on 27/03/2009 21:32:50
Originally by: Karlemgne


Stuff and nonsense


So you're bitter because ECM affects your chosen play style?

ECCM does work, pop it on a Cerberus and snipe those Falcons. You'll soon scare them away.

I look forward to your new world of low-sec pvp; RR BS ftw...


A Hac with eccm can be easily jammed, again not saying permajammed, but 2 out 3 cycles at best. Tested on an ishtar with eccm, not reliable at all.


And how many volloys would it take from the Cerberus to send the Falcon from the field?




I think the real question is how do you keep your cerberus alive vs the other entire gang that is primarying it because your shooting at their falcon. Oh thats right about 5-10 seconds.

You can theory craft all you want. I fly falcons. In low sec you cannot die in a falcon unless the gang knows all 3-4 of your jamming spots that you have made on nearly every gate/station you fight on.

Dont be foolish, nearly everyone has trained for a falcon for this very reason. I am fine if ccp nerfs my 3-4 months of training for the only ship I fly that I hate flying. The only reason I even use a falcon is to fit 2 ECCM and 4 caldari jammers to jam other falcons.


Seldinger
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Strategic Operations Brigade
Posted - 2009.03.27 23:06:00 - [964]
 

Sure, you can nerf ECM. Just give me back the millions of skill points I put into it and we'll call it even. In fact, since you have pretty much nerfed Caldari into oblivion, how about you let me transfer all those skill points to a race that actually can fight in fleet battles, like Amarr.

bubble booty
Posted - 2009.03.27 23:13:00 - [965]
 

NERF IT!!!! Then Nerf all the amarr and caldari crap because its way over powered...tank for days, fit all the dps you want and still tackle....BS its always whiners

Johan Sabbat
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.03.27 23:13:00 - [966]
 

Originally by: TheLibrarian


I think the real question is how do you keep your cerberus alive vs the other entire gang that is primarying it because your shooting at their falcon. Oh thats right about 5-10 seconds.

You can theory craft all you want. I fly falcons. In low sec you cannot die in a falcon unless the gang knows all 3-4 of your jamming spots that you have made on nearly every gate/station you fight on.

Dont be foolish, nearly everyone has trained for a falcon for this very reason. I am fine if ccp nerfs my 3-4 months of training for the only ship I fly that I hate flying. The only reason I even use a falcon is to fit 2 ECCM and 4 caldari jammers to jam other falcons.




Have you not tried using gate spots with the Cerberus?

You know how they keep Falcons 'safe' well you do the same with the Cerberus, after all your not trying to kill the Falcon just send it from the field than apply your dps to the fight.

Call it theory craft if you like, but I would recommend trying it.

True Ace
Gallente
Fat Bastards
MACHI MISCHIEF
Posted - 2009.03.27 23:17:00 - [967]
 

ccp is nerfing the falcon if u call it a nerf because its the only ecm ship besides the scorpion people fly. abuse things like passive shield tanking damps and nos and it gets nerfed simple as that. falcon wasnt inline with the ships in its class so it needs to be brought back.

no recons have a tank period. some hacs (deimos anybody) have the same measly tank get over it. if u got a problem just quit then. no one is forcing you to pay that monthly fee.

Plague Black
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.03.28 00:14:00 - [968]
 

CCP shows no spine again. If one whines strong enough they will react. Like with certain alliance names. Then another group whines a bit more and they back down again flexing their spine like a rubber band. Same with ECM.

I'll put 100m isk on titans feeling the nerf bat next. Any takers?

Zakru Anul
Spectres of the Deep
Posted - 2009.03.28 00:25:00 - [969]
 

How about not nerf bating ECM and fix ECCM, i would suggest a duel bonus on the units. give them a small booster too the sensor strength and say 15% range/lock speed add on.

that makes them more useful then a Anti jamming mod alone. and might get people too use them instead of whining about ECM and getting it nerfed.

caldri are on the low end of PVP usefulness already don't make them the PvE class only.


DMF KingBob
Posted - 2009.03.28 00:37:00 - [970]
 

"ECM ruins Lowsec-PvP"
thats 100% right then one falcon per 2 man gang is standard

i think many guys are ****ed off by the falcon suckage
but simply nerfing will be not effectiv enough
it is not effectivity of ecm wich sucks it is that i disrupts at the lock-system wich is very basic and everyone(e-war at self) needs...

thats my simple mind:
so it needs changed to an remote breaker


we are not at low sec-pvp since a long time
falcon has ruined our friday night fights too often....

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2009.03.28 01:23:00 - [971]
 

Originally by: Johan Sabbat
Originally by: TheLibrarian


I think the real question is how do you keep your cerberus alive vs the other entire gang that is primarying it because your shooting at their falcon. Oh thats right about 5-10 seconds.

You can theory craft all you want. I fly falcons. In low sec you cannot die in a falcon unless the gang knows all 3-4 of your jamming spots that you have made on nearly every gate/station you fight on.

Dont be foolish, nearly everyone has trained for a falcon for this very reason. I am fine if ccp nerfs my 3-4 months of training for the only ship I fly that I hate flying. The only reason I even use a falcon is to fit 2 ECCM and 4 caldari jammers to jam other falcons.




Have you not tried using gate spots with the Cerberus?

You know how they keep Falcons 'safe' well you do the same with the Cerberus, after all your not trying to kill the Falcon just send it from the field than apply your dps to the fight.

Call it theory craft if you like, but I would recommend trying it.


Great, so we're now back to the "nanos are fine! Just fit up a Hugin or a Rapier and be sure you have 15 of them. I don't see the problem?"


Davik Rendar
Gallente
Posted - 2009.03.28 01:35:00 - [972]
 

This happened with the speed nerf too.

People whined and complained because they put millions of skill points and billions of isk into training for the FOTM nano ships, they were nerfed, people moved on, and the good nano pilots still fly nano ships.
This will be just the same.

Personally I think it was about time, and the planned changes look pretty good to me.

MaxXx Gunn
Posted - 2009.03.28 02:02:00 - [973]
 

Originally by: Johan Sabbat
Originally by: TheLibrarian


I think the real question is how do you keep your cerberus alive vs the other entire gang that is primarying it because your shooting at their falcon. Oh thats right about 5-10 seconds.

You can theory craft all you want. I fly falcons. In low sec you cannot die in a falcon unless the gang knows all 3-4 of your jamming spots that you have made on nearly every gate/station you fight on.

Dont be foolish, nearly everyone has trained for a falcon for this very reason. I am fine if ccp nerfs my 3-4 months of training for the only ship I fly that I hate flying. The only reason I even use a falcon is to fit 2 ECCM and 4 caldari jammers to jam other falcons.




Have you not tried using gate spots with the Cerberus?

You know how they keep Falcons 'safe' well you do the same with the Cerberus, after all your not trying to kill the Falcon just send it from the field than apply your dps to the fight.

Call it theory craft if you like, but I would recommend trying it.


Obviously not otherwise we wouldnt be posting in this thread that is all about people who are not smart enough or too lazy to use strategy to stay alive. Instead were posting in a thread where people cried because they didnt want to have to modify their game play and give up their uber pwn mobile fittings to counter ECM. Their epic fail is now everyones problem.

AA10
Posted - 2009.03.28 02:16:00 - [974]
 

Edited by: AA10 on 28/03/2009 02:18:55
Stupidity of some CCP's developers is the main problem. They are presenting crude ideas (falcon is brawler with agility bonus - ha-ha) and loosing prestige... It's better to leave it as it is...

Phidell
Chaos Reborn
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.03.28 03:12:00 - [975]
 

Alright, I was training for a falcon, and in fact I could've flown it for the past three or four months, but I refuse to fly one. Finally decide to train for it and bam nerf. Fine, falcon was overpowered. I demand a boost to some caldari ships though!!! Falcon was the one really great caldari ship for PvP.

Torp Raven is ok v Bs gang's but eagle, or cerb? Missiles with delayed damage suck for any decent sized gang. BS? Scorpion's gonna be primary and you know it. Sry if I don't feel like flying a slow, large ship with a huge sig radius, and using my midslots for ECM.

Also, brawler rook is fail. What Recon brawls and succeeds? Curse stays at range and neuts from far away compared even to BS neuts. Pilgrim w/o range bonus is mainly used to gank because the lack of a range bonus hurts it greatly. Lachesis is ****, you can tell by the price. Oh and huginn. Web nerf made them pretty useless. Huginn's split weapons system isn't versatile. It still sucks.

^^#1 none of the other combat recon's brawl. Recon's don't brawl! it's a ****ing ******ed idea.


Cord Cutter
Posted - 2009.03.28 03:45:00 - [976]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
reserved


Please Think about this carefully, it's starting to remind me of what you have done to scanning by re-aranging the strengh's.. let ecm have a role or it won't even be used and it will die completly, who needs ecm the most ? people that want to avoid pvp, or protect investments thru gatecamps? I am not claiming to know the answer just asking that you think it thru all possible perspectiveLaughing

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2009.03.28 03:59:00 - [977]
 

Originally by: Cord Cutter

Please Think about this carefully, it's starting to remind me of what you have done to scanning by re-aranging the strengh's.. let ecm have a role or it won't even be used and it will die completly, who needs ecm the most ? people that want to avoid pvp, or protect investments thru gatecamps? I am not claiming to know the answer just asking that you think it thru all possible perspectiveLaughing


Quite possibly the most insane comment ever read. Assuming you are trying to troll and I'm too tired to find the humor.

Falcons are in practically every P V P gang larger than 5 people.

I can't recall who said it, but someone rather comically / wisely said "Who tries solo pvp without a falcon alt these days?". Just a sign of the times.

All cruisers need their targeting range capped at around 120kms max.

Frigs 20-80
cruisers 40-120
battlecruisers I think are lower than sniper hacs and recons
battleships 60-250

Having cruisers effective at x2 to x4 further than the average RR BS is iffy.

As for the "Doing this nerf breaks the rock/paper/scissors of eve pvp", you do know that the most effective counter to a Falcon is Another Falcon right?

So thats rock/paper/scissors out the window (Look out below!)

EgoMan
Posted - 2009.03.28 04:20:00 - [978]
 

plain and simple the only people who are pushing for a falcon nerf are FAILURES.....anyone worth a crap at pvp doesnt cry about dieing and definately doesnt cry about ecm. Just accapt your fail and go sit in the corner because you suck.

Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.03.28 05:01:00 - [979]
 

Why not just have scripts for ECM like all the other EW.

I mean you could have a power script and a range script. If you don't use a script it has less effect on both.

Seems that would be the much more appropriate response based on how you did that to most of the rest of EW.

DAX ZAIR
Posted - 2009.03.28 08:00:00 - [980]
 

leave it alone ecm ships are powerfull in ew terms but also extremely weak have a ship or 2 in your fleet fit to deal with them

Keep nerfing my ships and ill come to ccp headquarters and nerf the lot of ya

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2009.03.28 08:25:00 - [981]
 

Originally by: DAX ZAIR
leave it alone ecm ships are powerfull in ew terms but also extremely weak have a ship or 2 in your fleet fit to deal with them

Keep nerfing my ships and ill come to ccp headquarters and nerf the lot of ya


QFT

I don't exactly think this response is in anyway appropriate. Maybe its just me.

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2009.03.28 08:32:00 - [982]
 

Originally by: MaxXx Gunn
Originally by: Johan Sabbat
Originally by: TheLibrarian


I think the real question is how do you keep your cerberus alive vs the other entire gang that is primarying it because your shooting at their falcon. Oh thats right about 5-10 seconds.

You can theory craft all you want. I fly falcons. In low sec you cannot die in a falcon unless the gang knows all 3-4 of your jamming spots that you have made on nearly every gate/station you fight on.

Dont be foolish, nearly everyone has trained for a falcon for this very reason. I am fine if ccp nerfs my 3-4 months of training for the only ship I fly that I hate flying. The only reason I even use a falcon is to fit 2 ECCM and 4 caldari jammers to jam other falcons.




Have you not tried using gate spots with the Cerberus?

You know how they keep Falcons 'safe' well you do the same with the Cerberus, after all your not trying to kill the Falcon just send it from the field than apply your dps to the fight.

Call it theory craft if you like, but I would recommend trying it.


Obviously not otherwise we wouldnt be posting in this thread that is all about people who are not smart enough or too lazy to use strategy to stay alive. Instead were posting in a thread where people cried because they didnt want to have to modify their game play and give up their uber pwn mobile fittings to counter ECM. Their epic fail is now everyones problem.


Yeah, my epic pownagemobiles get nerfed by fitting 2 ECCMs in the following way: I cannot tackle anyone.

The state of low-sec pvp is great right now with ECM the way it is. Rolling Eyes
Fewer fights, bigger ships (because bigger ships are the only ships with sensor strengths big enough to counter a Falcon with ECCM), fewer losses and kills in fights, etc.

Yep. Yeah ECM.

-Karlemgne

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2009.03.28 08:40:00 - [983]
 

Originally by: EgoMan
plain and simple the only people who are pushing for a falcon nerf are FAILURES.....anyone worth a crap at pvp doesnt cry about dieing and definately doesnt cry about ecm. Just accapt your fail and go sit in the corner because you suck.


I, we, certainly don't fail. In fact, there are many a dedicated Falcon pilot in this thread who have said: "Yep. Its broken. Fix it."

The real issue here is people who don't want to lose their Falcon alts. They don't want to lose their FoTM. This is, I think demonstrably with the tq Falcon spamage, the same thing that we had with the nanos. Falcons are easy, Falcons are the current *I win most of the time* ships, and people are a bit ****ed they trained an alt specifically for the Falcon.

So what. I am Minmatar and Gallente pilot. I am a nanopilot (who was in favor of the nerf), I am a Myrmidon Pilot and an EOS pilot. They were nerfed, I understand why, and I moved on.

-Karlemgne

SniperWo1f
Rage of Inferno
Minor Threat.
Posted - 2009.03.28 08:53:00 - [984]
 

Originally by: Sky Marshal

Do I need a Batphone or contact a BoB friend to be sure that you receive my comment ?



no only if you need an a alliance name change..

SniperWo1f
Rage of Inferno
Minor Threat.
Posted - 2009.03.28 09:00:00 - [985]
 

Originally by: Mecinia Lua
Why not just have scripts for ECM like all the other EW.

I mean you could have a power script and a range script. If you don't use a script it has less effect on both.

Seems that would be the much more appropriate response based on how you did that to most of the rest of EW.


your idea shows clarity and logic with a strong fundemental argument

unfortunatly ... ccp .

Johan Sabbat
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.03.28 11:12:00 - [986]
 

Edited by: Johan Sabbat on 28/03/2009 11:13:21
Originally by: Karlemgne

Yeah, my epic pownagemobiles get nerfed by fitting 2 ECCMs in the following way: I cannot tackle anyone.

The state of low-sec pvp is great right now with ECM the way it is. Rolling Eyes
Fewer fights, bigger ships (because bigger ships are the only ships with sensor strengths big enough to counter a Falcon with ECCM), fewer losses and kills in fights, etc.

Yep. Yeah ECM.

-Karlemgne


Well if you sniping falcons in a HAC then you want to be out of point range yourself (as you say your tank won't be anything to write home about), so there is no need to fit a point.

It sounds like you have a favourite short ranged SpanknTank mobile that you don't want to change for ECM.

Here's a second tip for you, get some mates with projected ECCM, you can keep your SpanknTank mobile unchanged.

One final point, you complaint that Falcons mean people resort to bigger ships (for the sensor strength) then you should take advantage of that fact. I am personally of the opinion that if we lose useable ECM then we will see a surge in RR BS gangs with logistics.

I would like to see your counter arguement to that last point.

--edit--

btw, I am in favour of making the Rook a brawler platform in the vein of the Curse.

Marrano Cardosa
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2009.03.28 11:23:00 - [987]
 

The falcon is only slightly overpowered. Its a force multiplier, why do people always whine about that and then CCP nerf it. All this change will do is break ECM, the real solution is to make the other forms of EWAR actually WORK.

As for a counter to a Falcon, sure another Falcon is a good counter. BUT its not all that good a use of a Falcon. An Arazu can easily counter a Falcon, if the pilot does a little planning.

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2009.03.28 11:25:00 - [988]
 

Rook with 25m3 dronebay, and a falloff bonus for using miltispecs solo. Sweet Very HappyVery Happy




J Valkor
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.03.28 11:42:00 - [989]
 

Edited by: J Valkor on 28/03/2009 11:44:36
Doesn't matter. Game always changes.

Marrano Cardosa
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2009.03.28 11:45:00 - [990]
 

Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: EgoMan
plain and simple the only people who are pushing for a falcon nerf are FAILURES.....anyone worth a crap at pvp doesnt cry about dieing and definately doesnt cry about ecm. Just accapt your fail and go sit in the corner because you suck.


I, we, certainly don't fail. In fact, there are many a dedicated Falcon pilot in this thread who have said: "Yep. Its broken. Fix it."

The real issue here is people who don't want to lose their Falcon alts. They don't want to lose their FoTM. This is, I think demonstrably with the tq Falcon spamage, the same thing that we had with the nanos. Falcons are easy, Falcons are the current *I win most of the time* ships, and people are a bit ****ed they trained an alt specifically for the Falcon.

So what. I am Minmatar and Gallente pilot. I am a nanopilot (who was in favor of the nerf), I am a Myrmidon Pilot and an EOS pilot. They were nerfed, I understand why, and I moved on.

-Karlemgne


Falcon's are NOT easy. Yes, when done right, especially against people who don't plan or expect a Falcon they are very effective, but you are still just whining. I don't run a Falcon alt, my main pilots a falcon. And not all the time either. I also use an Arazu and a Curse in PvP (the Arazu more than the Curse because I haven't spent enough time figuring out how to position a Curse in a fight yet). All 3 are effective ship, although none is a "brawler". Yes, the Falcon has more of a force multiplier effect than the others, but at most it is only slightly over-powered. I would say that its the other EWAR ships that are underpowered.


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