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Delichon
Armored Saints
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:01:00 - [811]
 

Edited by: Delichon on 26/03/2009 11:03:48
I'd second the "Rook needs grid opinion"
Extra 120MW grid allows you to fit 5x HAM T2 + LSE T2 + MWD T1 + all the lesser gridhungry mods with AWU 4 and Shield Upgrades 4.

Try doing that - you would see the Rook shine as a nice close-combat ship.


The fit I'd be orienting towards would be

[Rook, Rook HAM]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
ECM - Multispectral Jammer II
ECM - Multispectral Jammer II
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile

Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I

+ 5 Warriors T2
and we are looking at 320 (missile) + 50-60 (drone) DPS, 30k Effective hit points buffer and 2 jammers on top of that. A decent soloboat with some drawbacks (no web/weak capacitor) and some strong points.

TZeer
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:02:00 - [812]
 

Originally by: Dibsi Dei
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Falcon:
Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus:
12.5% Bonus to ECM Target Jammer Optimal & Falloff Range per level
10% Bonus to Medium Hybrid Optimal Range per level

Recon Ships Skill Bonus:
20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level
-96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level

Attribute Changes:
+1 turret hardpoint / -1 launcher hardpoint

What is the matter with you? You were supposed to NERF the falcon, the range of the falcon was the problem. After those changes you get pretty much the same optimal with a massive falloff boost.


What stats are you looking at?

If you bother to read the whole thread you see CCP is looking at swapping the base optimal and base falloff.

That would mean T2 racial will have 41km optimal with maxskills before you apply the recon bonus. Add that and you get a whopping 66km optimal Rolling Eyes

The falloff would then be roughly 87km.

Add those two and you get 154km. And then you are deep in falloff and cut your jammingpower by 50%.

If you compare that to today Falcon which have 162km optimal, I would say thats a pretty big reduction in it`s efficiency.



Avoras
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:03:00 - [813]
 

Edited by: Avoras on 26/03/2009 11:17:39
Originally by: Tijaa
Why not change the modules

Remove the ability to fit more than one of each type of racial jammer.
Remove the ability for a racial jammer to jam the wrong races ship.
Make the strength bonuses only apply to multispec jammers.

Thoughts?


Will a someone new to ecm and using a Blackbird, me, be able to make a successful cycle half the time anymore? Or is ecm being pushed further into max or high level skills only area to be usable ? Eh at least a noob like me can still provide dps and go with the flow of the blob. Like I said I'm new to ecm so don't shoot me down to hard >_<.

Edit: Um..I posted in the wrong alt sorry. Maroxus is my main.

Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:19:00 - [814]
 

Originally by: TZeer
What stats are you looking at?

If you bother to read the whole thread you see CCP is looking at swapping the base optimal and base falloff.

That would mean T2 racial will have 41km optimal with maxskills before you apply the recon bonus. Add that and you get a whopping 66km optimal Rolling Eyes

The falloff would then be roughly 87km.

Add those two and you get 154km. And then you are deep in falloff and cut your jammingpower by 50%.

If you compare that to today Falcon which have 162km optimal, I would say thats a pretty big reduction in it`s efficiency.


Oh ok, thanks. Cool

Xarax Sparow
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:22:00 - [815]
 

Think about to boost the EW of the other races before nerfing the caldari.

TZeer
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:28:00 - [816]
 

Originally by: Tijaa
Why not change the modules

Remove the ability to fit more than one of each type of racial jammer.
Remove the ability for a racial jammer to jam the wrong races ship.
Make the strength bonuses only apply to multispec jammers.

Thoughts?


Remove the ability to fit more than one hardener.
Remove the ability for racial drones be fitted to other races ships.
Make the strength... I think you know where I`m going with this.

No

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:31:00 - [817]
 


Boost ECCM instead, give it a secondary effect and make SDA modules effect damps, TD's, TP's ect and give the recons that use those other modules range modifyers.


At the very least that will add new dimentions of detail'd and complicated tactical gang pvp, instead of putting another recon ship on the scrap heap and pushing the combat in game even more towards total gank/tank fits instead.

Research Rachel
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:35:00 - [818]
 

seriously, why don't you just remove all ships and have people only fight in noob ships!

This is stupid, just like dampener scripts were stupid but way to go whiners, you win again Rolling Eyes

Carebear Online is almost here *sighs*

Elurilmar
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:46:00 - [819]
 

Edited by: Elurilmar on 26/03/2009 11:48:21
I've been reading a ton of posts about how much Tracking disruption sucks and target painting sucks. They don't suck. Learn how to freakin use them before you complain about them. I've been in too many fights with a TD or target painter fitted where it totally changed the tide of battle, whether it kept a primary in my fleet from dying or it meant that extra bit of dps to bring a ship down. tracking disrupters are one of the most useful modules you can fit on a ship fleet or solo (if you have a slot for it) so before you complain about them, shut up and learn how to use them first.

Edit: On a side note, sensor dampeners really do suck and need a boost or something.

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:54:00 - [820]
 

Edited by: Hugh Ruka on 26/03/2009 12:05:32
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
You know what's really hilarious, in a sad way? Everyone is complaining about the Falcon in solo and small-gang fights, the fleet pilots just insta-pop them with sniper battleships/HACs. And guess what these changes are going to do in a solo or small-gang fight: absolutely nothing. Falcon alts with the new Falcon will still perma-jam one or two targets just fine and ruin every "1v1" they get into, and people will still fill the forums with whine threads about it.


well at first I though this is spot on.

but then I remembered that lowsec falcon use will be almost 100% removed because he will now operate under sentry range.

good move CCP. instead of fixing all the othe recons, you nerfed the only usable ones. I mean it is still easier to nerf then to buff/fix, so that's not entirely unexpected.

oh and please PLEASe for the Scorpion: add 125m3 drone bay if you change range to missile ROF

thinking about it, just swapping the optimal bonus with falloff bonus on the falcon would solve all issues (it would even make ECCMs and RANGE work against a falcon more).

but when did CCP use logic ?

KAMIKAZE TRON
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:55:00 - [821]
 

What makes me laugh is there is already measures and mods to use to counter ecm that nubs just never seem tot use. Just put one or two sensor strength mods on your med or low slots and your un jammable....Yeah your tank suffers a tiny bit but you can't be jammed...

Rather than improve this aspect of ecm protection that noone bothers to use coz they dont want to hurt there precious tanks or use up slots for it, they would rather nerf an entire line of ecm ships.....

I love the way ccp thinks Rolling Eyes

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:57:00 - [822]
 

Edited by: maralt on 26/03/2009 12:03:31

Originally by: Elurilmar
I've been reading a ton of posts about how much Tracking disruption sucks and target painting sucks. They don't suck. Learn how to freakin use them before you complain about them. I've been in too many fights with a TD or target painter fitted where it totally changed the tide of battle, whether it kept a primary in my fleet from dying or it meant that extra bit of dps to bring a ship down. tracking disrupters are one of the most useful modules you can fit on a ship fleet or solo (if you have a slot for it) so before you complain about them, shut up and learn how to use them first.


The same can be said about damps bud and i totally agree with you, but in a gang fight those modules are much more used on multiple non-bonused ships and dispersed around the oposing gang to what i agree with you is great effect. I think you will agree though that the recons that get bonuses to those effects are not used in that sort of gang fighting due to their lack of tank and gank relative to the effectivness of the module.

And while the other recons are reasonably effective when used in 2-3 man gangs for ganking perposes the ecm effect being chance based is not only useless on non-bonused ships in gang v gang fighting but also a poor choice to use at close range in 2-3 man gank squads on its bonused recon due to its unrelyable effect.


So in nerfing ECM we are left with the recon being as useless in gang combat as the others, and also useless in solo or 2-3 man teams because its still chance based. While the ecm module itself also being useless on unbonused ships unlike the other systems because it again does not have a gaurenteed/relyable effect that tactics can be developed around...

So in other words a dead ship and module.




Diana Arseti
Posted - 2009.03.26 12:06:00 - [823]
 

Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 26/03/2009 11:59:39
Originally by: Elurilmar
I've been reading a ton of posts about how much Tracking disruption sucks and target painting sucks. They don't suck. Learn how to freakin use them before you complain about them. I've been in too many fights with a TD or target painter fitted where it totally changed the tide of battle, whether it kept a primary in my fleet from dying or it meant that extra bit of dps to bring a ship down. tracking disrupters are one of the most useful modules you can fit on a ship fleet or solo (if you have a slot for it) so before you complain about them, shut up and learn how to use them first.


The same can be said about damps bud and i totally agree with you, but in a gang fight those modules are much more used on multiple non-bonused ships and dispersed around the oposing gang to what i agree with you is great effect. I think you will agree though that the recons that get bonuses to those effects are not used in that sort of gang fighting due to their lack of tank and gank relative to the effectivness of the module.

And while the other recons are reasonably effective when used in 2-3 man gangs for ganking perposes the ecm effect being chance based is not only useless on non-bonused ships in gang v gang fighting but also a poor choice to use at close range in 2-3 man gank squads on its bonused recon due to its unrelyable effect.


So in nerfing ECM we are left with the recon being as useless in gang combat as the others, and also useless in solo or 2-3 man teams because its still chance based. While the ecm module itself also being useless on unbonused ships unlike the other because it again does not have a gaurenteed/relyable effect that tactics can be developed around...

So in other words a dead ship and module.






+1

Falcons will be dying like flies. Even with current state of things in fleets (med size 10-20 ppl) during 5-10 minutes engagements u have to warp out 3-4 times minimum (if your enemy have sniper BSes or HACs and they usually do). Yet another manticorish paperthin boat for all these flying Caldari ships.

Veto Nalloc
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.03.26 12:37:00 - [824]
 

I do no like the idea that the scorp has no range bonus, it makes it completely worthless as a fleet ship now without that, may aswell fly a blackbird and save my iskies....

Sam Demann
Posted - 2009.03.26 12:45:00 - [825]
 

Ok, so you nerf missiles for Caldari, and then you "rebalance" the EWAR for Caldari.

Come on, you've already forced 'dari pilots to re-evaluate their characters once already, and now you're about to do it to them all over again? New missile bonuses for the scorp? How kind, didn't the Cruise get hit with the nerf bat so what exactly are you giving here?

What's next? Deciding that 'dari pilots have too much shield and "rebalancing" their tanks?

Rebalancing is fine, but try to keep things in perspective please as a lot of pilots out there have only just come to terms with one big change in their game and now you're proposing another hard on it's heels.

d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2009.03.26 12:51:00 - [826]
 

Originally by: KAMIKAZE TRON
What makes me laugh is there is already measures and mods to use to counter ecm that nubs just never seem tot use. Just put one or two sensor strength mods on your med or low slots and your un jammable....Yeah your tank suffers a tiny bit but you can't be jammed...

Rather than improve this aspect of ecm protection that noone bothers to use coz they dont want to hurt there precious tanks or use up slots for it, they would rather nerf an entire line of ecm ships.....

I love the way ccp thinks Rolling Eyes


That would be a good point if it was even half true. Even two mid slot ECCM will not give you impunity from Jam.


Atina Palada
Bulgarian Mafia Squad
Sons of Tangra
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:01:00 - [827]
 

Edited by: Atina Palada on 26/03/2009 13:21:45
Edited by: Atina Palada on 26/03/2009 13:09:19
Plz CCP just remove Caldari from the game.
-Missile nerf 1, nighthawk nerf, Missile nerf 2= all misile skills unusable (15mln SP on this char in trash)
-Caldari Ewar nerf (5mln EW in trash) Where is the problem. Even now is very hard to jam enemy BS with active sensor booster. With 6 racial jamers was impossible for me to jam enemy guardian for 15+min with this modul fited and active.

-Whats next? In the moment when 100 Rokh fleet start to shoot enemy fleets from 230-240km spots(it's easy to reach 249km optimal range on Rokh) you will say lets nerf it - so lets just remove all Caldari, or let them transfer all this unusable SP somewhere else. For me and for a lot other high SP character that i know, that is not a big problem (80+ mln SP so 20 in trash :) ) but i can imgagine what this means for all low SP caldari characters. A lot of them will just stop playing.

Childstar
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:01:00 - [828]
 

Originally by: d'hofren
Originally by: KAMIKAZE TRON
What makes me laugh is there is already measures and mods to use to counter ecm that nubs just never seem tot use. Just put one or two sensor strength mods on your med or low slots and your un jammable....Yeah your tank suffers a tiny bit but you can't be jammed...

Rather than improve this aspect of ecm protection that noone bothers to use coz they dont want to hurt there precious tanks or use up slots for it, they would rather nerf an entire line of ecm ships.....

I love the way ccp thinks Rolling Eyes


That would be a good point if it was even half true. Even two mid slot ECCM will not give you impunity from Jam.




2 mid slot SB' or TC's do not give you immunity from damps or TD's they only resist the effects while 2 eccm will entirely block the effect of ecm for many cycles compared to flying without them and getting jammed.

Nathan Harrow
Caldari
NibbleTek
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:02:00 - [829]
 

Not that im a big fan of ECM, but why isnt CCP looking at boosting the countering modules and ammo that is currently in place rather than nerfing what the ships can do?

ECCM should give you a bonus as well as upping your sensor strength like allowing you to target an additional target per module fitted (something kind of between a sensor booster and sensor array)

FoF's - are rubbish, rubbish damage, unpredictable - why arent these fixed to offer some counter to EWAR? More damage (same as the size catagory for instance) and slightly less randomness (being able to adjust a setting so they will target the closest or furthest target)

What about a turret equivolent? Smart ammo for your turrets which do the same job?

FoFs are there to counter jamming but are never used because they are useless, these should be taken into account when considering any boost or nerf to ECM.


Rumpelstilski
Caldari
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:03:00 - [830]
 

BALANCING vs RR GANGS and LOGIS

One other thing to have in mind is keeping the rr gangs in check. Up to now the only viable defense against a short range bs heavy rr gang is another short range bs heavy rr gang or a sniper blob capable of near-alpha of triple plated triple trimarked, gang bonused battleships.

Ecm worked as the only viable force multiplier (thus reducing the need of overwhelming alphablobbing) against such gangs because it had limited success in jamming multi-eccmed bses and remote eccmed logistics.

Any reduction of ecm strength across the board at over sniper-hac ranges will make an impact on fighting those gangs that are pretty fotm as it is and don't need any more buffs in terms of nerfing their only real paper-scissor-rock counter.

Therefore I propose changing eccm bonuses and/or sensor strengths to favor tacklers and recons over battleships and logistics. One possibility is to exchange large and small ship sensor strengths, the other is to make eccm modules give fixed increases in sensor strength instead of relative ones (and possibly introduce a cheap rig of +5 or +10 bonus to sensor strength for use on tacklers)

Olivor
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:07:00 - [831]
 

Really, really liked the idea some guy posted about making EWar ship bonuses increase the time a ship remains locked out.

Maybe lets say... keep 20 second recharge, make ECM jam for somewhere between 5 - 7.5 second. All ECM ships gain a +10-20% jam time per level

Your larger ships aren't going to be able to get a lock before another jam cycle comes up whereas small ships can do something in between ECM cycles, chuck in a scripted sensor booster for locking time and ECM isn't some horrible permajam to all ships. It becomes slightly more balanced as although BS's are less likely to get locked out in the first place, they'll be slower at re-acquiring a target whereas small ships that may get locked out more can re-obtain a lock before being locked out again.

Yes you may only have a lock for <1 second but that's still enough to give orders to drones, get off one cycle of rep, neut, nos or one weapon volley. On mods with a 10 second recharge, you're still being able to use them 50% of the available time.

Marius Nervosu
Caldari
The Fallen Angels Unit
Legiunea ROmana
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:12:00 - [832]
 

WoW very good new bonus to falcon...3x medium hibrid turret and 10% optimal...5% from the caldari use medium hibrid turret and ships with guns. CCP please leave the falcon alone (unless you want to kill the last good caldari ship for pvp) and do whatever you wish with the other ecm ships from caldari because nobody use them anyway.

Aya Vandenovich
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:14:00 - [833]
 

Edited by: Aya Vandenovich on 26/03/2009 13:14:54
Probably been suggested a million times before, but could we perhaps get ECCM that also functions like an unscripted sensor booster, similar to a mid-slot sig amp? That way you don't gimp yourself as much if you want more sensor strength, but if you want the full power of a scripted SB for sniping/lock time, whatever, then you either have to sacrifice the ECCM, or use up another mid for the SB.

BetaZ
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:19:00 - [834]
 

I can't understand why CCP would want to "balance" the game (or each races or ships). What's the point? Isn't the point of this game about variety and creativity?

Why are we complaining about these issues? Can't we just be mature and train for an uber ship? (These ships aren't "uber" in my book. They lack both defense and offense. They are easily dispatched, if done properly.) This is my take on things--if there is truly an advantageous situation, I'd do my best to take advantage of it. Currently, all these "ECM unbalanced" situations aren't even being exploited. The complaint has been from lazy or uncoordinated individuals raising their voices that became a collective crescendo, but in reality, the game play isn't ruined. (Do we really want a game like other MMOs that lack variety and creativity? Getting jammed from 200km? No problem, get another buddy or an alt to remmedy the situation.)

I'm very disappointed at CCP for always having knee-jerk responses, instead of standing their ground. I just hope CCP comes to their senses.

Finally, I hope we become more mature while playing the game instead of just complaining to get our way.

If something is really good, use it. If this advantage becomes hegemonic then, sure, balance it, but do it only if it is warranted.

Antic
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:19:00 - [835]
 

Whats needed here is to think outside the box.

Completely change the way Ewar works. Make it fun again. It should make sense. It should promote cooperation.

  • Keep the single target modules but weaken them in effect and duration significaly.

  • Introduce new modules and mechanics for Ewar wich has a targeted Area of effect.

  • Change the specialized ewar ships to be able to fit these modules and only them.

  • Make ECM more like the ECM burst but with a small duration. Lower duration on the others, add a chance based effect on the others too.

  • watch and be amazed at all the new tactical oportunities being available to PVP small gangs and fleets alike.


A targeted AOE effect means an Arazu could project a dampening field at a target in an enemy group and the target plus every ship inside a certain distance from the target has a _chance_ of being dampened for X seconds. Then add a Falcon wich projects an ECM field on the same group and they have the _chance_ of loosing their locks for a couple of seconds and thus have to relock, now feeling the full effect of the dampening.

Cooperation. Tactics and bbq hotdogs. Problem solved and it makes EWAR interesting and it makes sense again.

Triest
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:26:00 - [836]
 

Originally by: Vina
Alright, as probably the most senior ECM user still playing this game, this is what should be done:

First, ECM base strengths need to be changed so that with lvl 5 ship skills the ECM effectivness with ship bonus is slightly more than a same ship class amount. so IE; griffin with caldari frigate lvl 5 (75% bonus to ecm strength + 25% from sig disp) should yield an ECM strength of 10. that keeps ECM low base strength. (base ecm strength should be 4.5 on t2)

Griffin:
10% ecm cap usage
15% ecm effectiveness

Kitsune:
10% ecm cap usage
15% ecm effectiveness
5% missile rof
5% missile velocity

Rook:
5% missile rof
5% missile velocity
30% ecm jammer strength
5% shield HP

Falcon:
25% ecm effectiveness
10% ecm optimal range
10% hybrid optimal
covert cloak bonus

Blackbird:
10% ecm optimal
25% ecm effectiveness

Scorp:
50% effectiveness bonus
20% optimal range

(this will make it the only ECM ship viable in a fleet fight... as it should be)

Widow:
50% ecm effectiveness

so with a base ECM strength of 4.5 we have:

Griffin/kitsune: 9.84 on racial
Blackbird/falcon: 12.6
rook: 14
Scorp/Widow: 19.68

This more closely matches sensor strengths of the ships these ships are matched with. it also matches the rook up with the widow in being kick-your-ass at close range ships (which should be reserved for t2 ships only, no t1 ecm brawlers.. lol what a stupid idea.)

As people ahve said before, the whole problem with ECM is the range/effectiveness is not balanced on a SHIP CLASS basis. that's waht needs to be fixed. Battleships should be the best, not falcon.


Dude's pretty spot on with ship bonuses. It's incredibly silly that the Falcon, being far more agile and able to warp cloaked (which is an astonishingly good ability for an electronic warfare ship) exceeds the Scorpion in performance with the proposed bonuses. I mean, I'm one of the biggest proponents of T2 ships, and it's still silly. The Scorpion is big, slow, and a dedicated battleship sized electronic warfare platform. It should have the greatest range and jamming strength of any of these vessels, and the proportional decrease going down in hull size is completely logical.

d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:44:00 - [837]
 

Originally by: Childstar
Originally by: d'hofren
Originally by: KAMIKAZE TRON
What makes me laugh is there is already measures and mods to use to counter ecm that nubs just never seem tot use. Just put one or two sensor strength mods on your med or low slots and your un jammable....Yeah your tank suffers a tiny bit but you can't be jammed...

Rather than improve this aspect of ecm protection that noone bothers to use coz they dont want to hurt there precious tanks or use up slots for it, they would rather nerf an entire line of ecm ships.....

I love the way ccp thinks Rolling Eyes


That would be a good point if it was even half true. Even two mid slot ECCM will not give you impunity from Jam.




2 mid slot SB' or TC's do not give you immunity from damps or TD's they only resist the effects while 2 eccm will entirely block the effect of ecm for many cycles compared to flying without them and getting jammed.


Then again, Damps and TD's don't completely shut down the offensive capabilities of a ship from over 200km away do they?

(and yes I have a max skilled falcon alt as well)...

Yonker
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:50:00 - [838]
 

Originally by: Olivor
Really, really liked the idea some guy posted about making EWar ship bonuses increase the time a ship remains locked out.

Maybe lets say... keep 20 second recharge, make ECM jam for somewhere between 5 - 7.5 second. All ECM ships gain a +10-20% jam time per level

Your larger ships aren't going to be able to get a lock before another jam cycle comes up whereas small ships can do something in between ECM cycles, chuck in a scripted sensor booster for locking time and ECM isn't some horrible permajam to all ships. It becomes slightly more balanced as although BS's are less likely to get locked out in the first place, they'll be slower at re-acquiring a target whereas small ships that may get locked out more can re-obtain a lock before being locked out again.

Yes you may only have a lock for <1 second but that's still enough to give orders to drones, get off one cycle of rep, neut, nos or one weapon volley. On mods with a 10 second recharge, you're still being able to use them 50% of the available time.


Exactly my point. The problem from an ECM standpoint is that it is too strong vs sub-BS ships and not strong enough vs BSs.

Leave the Jam strength alone, smaller ships will be easier to jam and Battleships+ harder. The overall effect will be the same.

Alternatively, instead of breaking all target locks on a ship have ECM just remove 1-4 targets at a time (+/- depending on skills). That way it doesn't completely cripple ships, there are very easy ways to counter it outside of modules(Targeting V, Multitasking V) and it still has an effect on the battle.

JarkaRuus
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:57:00 - [839]
 

I think there are basically two camps regarding Falcon that can be distilled into

'Scrap the overpowered permajamming $"$ing thing' and 'I love my Falcon, leave it alone'

From what I can tell, a Falcon that has to get within 50k to be useful is useless - no tank or dps worth anything, and will die very quickly, even with the proposed changes/buffs.

The underlying issue seems to be that a long range permajammer is percieved to be unfair and game spoiling.

Why not just introduce scripts similar to those in Sensor boosters that give the choice of 'long range/low strength' or 'short range/high strength', or unscripted use which is a mid range/mid strength situation. It then becomes a tactical decision which adds depth to the gameplay.

The same could be done for other EWAR modules to bring everything in line.

Adding to the game seems more favourable than nerfing stuff to me

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:58:00 - [840]
 

We can always go back to initial deterministic model. Put more ECM on target than his sensor strenght is and it's jammed until those modules sit there.

If you force ECM boats into same range as other e-war ships they need the same reliability.


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