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Flaming Candle
Posted - 2009.03.19 10:49:00 - [31]
 

Normally, k-space Anomalies will respawn somewhere else in the constellation. I expect this is what is happening here. you are clearing out a system, and the anomalies are moving to different systems in the same constellation.

Naturally, in w-space, we can't easily get to the same systems in the constellation! Do w-space constellations even exist?

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2009.03.19 17:08:00 - [32]
 

They do exists in terms of game mechanics. But, since it's W-space, there's no gates between systems, thus you can't easily move from one to another.

Arous Drephius
Posted - 2009.03.19 17:55:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Mohenna
How do you define a constellation in eve terms without jumpgates?


Each system in the database has a constellation assigned to it, whether you can jump between the systems or not. All the w-space systems are part of constellations and regions.

Dilbert HighSeed
Posted - 2009.03.20 02:31:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: CCP Abathur
There is no mechanic that links anchoring a starbase to the number or availability of sites spawning. It is completely random by design.


OK, I am part of a team that has been in-pocket since 8 hours after the expansion went live. We have quite literally been in here 23/7. (always one of at least 20 people online at all times). We scan EVERY time we kill a site, and we clear 5-10 sites/day in-pocket. There are people in fact scanning on the hour, every hour.

We are in class 3 of 6 pocket. We have finished off about 50 sites. Those sites have consisted of 40 plus grav sites, about 5-8 gas sites (most in first 2 days), ZERO Mag sites, ZERO Radar sites.

Let me clarify: ZERO Mag and Radar sites have spawned in our pocket. We nail and bookmark every site within a max of 2 hours of it appearing.

So what gives? I understand that Radar sites are rarer, but this is ridiculous. BTW, our pocket has stabilized at 7-10 sites. Every time we kill one, another site pops up, (see percentages above if grav or ladar)

Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari
Sarum Industries
Posted - 2009.03.20 09:20:00 - [35]
 

Dear CCP,

is there still a 72 hour despawn timer even for WH sites? So if noone finds them, will they spawns in another system after a given period of time?

If not, then we have the sites all hiding in a number of WH systems which haven't been found/explored yet (think of "bat country" systems which would be only reachable through other WH systems)

ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
Posted - 2009.03.20 10:26:00 - [36]
 

i think the 72 hour despawn timer still applies. It needs to really maybe even a 48 hour timer

Cadde
Gallente
221st Century Warfare
Posted - 2009.03.20 10:57:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Dilbert HighSeed
Originally by: CCP Abathur
There is no mechanic that links anchoring a starbase to the number or availability of sites spawning. It is completely random by design.


OK, I am part of a team that has been in-pocket since 8 hours after the expansion went live. We have quite literally been in here 23/7. (always one of at least 20 people online at all times). We scan EVERY time we kill a site, and we clear 5-10 sites/day in-pocket. There are people in fact scanning on the hour, every hour.

We are in class 3 of 6 pocket. We have finished off about 50 sites. Those sites have consisted of 40 plus grav sites, about 5-8 gas sites (most in first 2 days), ZERO Mag sites, ZERO Radar sites.

Let me clarify: ZERO Mag and Radar sites have spawned in our pocket. We nail and bookmark every site within a max of 2 hours of it appearing.

So what gives? I understand that Radar sites are rarer, but this is ridiculous. BTW, our pocket has stabilized at 7-10 sites. Every time we kill one, another site pops up, (see percentages above if grav or ladar)


There can be two mechanics that apply to your situation...

1) The W-space you are in is a harvesting system. which means you are not very likely to find any radar/arch/salv/anomalies in it. It could be the most basic of W-space there is.

2) Grav sites respawning in the same system constantly could be part of the "No charted asteroid belts" in system mechanic. If you where to harvest all grav sites there would be no mineral resources in that system anymore and thus you wouldn't be able to build more ships at your pos.

So in conclusion to everybody doing W-space expeditions... MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE THE SYSTEM IS WORTH HAVING A POS IN.
I get the feeling many people blindly take the first WH they find and start rushing to set up a base in there. Only after they have done so do they realize that the system was a C1 consisting of nothing but gas and crappy ores.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2009.03.20 12:54:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Dilbert HighSeed
So what gives? I understand that Radar sites are rarer, but this is ridiculous. BTW, our pocket has stabilized at 7-10 sites. Every time we kill one, another site pops up, (see percentages above if grav or ladar)

Who said that Radar must be spawned in your system? What a ridiculous mindstream brought this idea into your brain?

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2009.03.20 12:57:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Cadde
So in conclusion to everybody doing W-space expeditions... MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE THE SYSTEM IS WORTH HAVING A POS IN.
I get the feeling many people blindly take the first WH they find and start rushing to set up a base in there. Only after they have done so do they realize that the system was a C1 consisting of nothing but gas and crappy ores.

Let me explain the very basics of exploration... IT IS RANDOM!
Spawns are random, you MUST move to find them. POS can't move, so... either give up on idea of harvesting Rad/Mag sites or use it properly.

Cadde
Gallente
221st Century Warfare
Posted - 2009.03.20 15:42:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Cadde
So in conclusion to everybody doing W-space expeditions... MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE THE SYSTEM IS WORTH HAVING A POS IN.
I get the feeling many people blindly take the first WH they find and start rushing to set up a base in there. Only after they have done so do they realize that the system was a C1 consisting of nothing but gas and crappy ores.

Let me explain the very basics of exploration... IT IS RANDOM!
Spawns are random, you MUST move to find them. POS can't move, so... either give up on idea of harvesting Rad/Mag sites or use it properly.


So what you are saying is that no matter what security class you are in you will find the same stuff in high sec as you do in 0.0 with the same frequency.

Please come back when you do!

Dilbert HighSeed
Posted - 2009.03.20 18:24:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Dilbert HighSeed
So what gives? I understand that Radar sites are rarer, but this is ridiculous. BTW, our pocket has stabilized at 7-10 sites. Every time we kill one, another site pops up, (see percentages above if grav or ladar)

Who said that Radar must be spawned in your system? What a ridiculous mindstream brought this idea into your brain?


Please show me the dev link that explicitly or even implicitly states that some pockets NEVER spawn mag and radar sites.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2009.03.20 20:13:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Tonto Auri on 20/03/2009 20:16:07
Originally by: Cadde
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Cadde
So in conclusion to everybody doing W-space expeditions... MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE THE SYSTEM IS WORTH HAVING A POS IN.
I get the feeling many people blindly take the first WH they find and start rushing to set up a base in there. Only after they have done so do they realize that the system was a C1 consisting of nothing but gas and crappy ores.

Let me explain the very basics of exploration... IT IS RANDOM!
Spawns are random, you MUST move to find them. POS can't move, so... either give up on idea of harvesting Rad/Mag sites or use it properly.


So what you are saying is that no matter what security class you are in you will find the same stuff in high sec as you do in 0.0 with the same frequency.

Please come back when you do!


You either complete idiot or just having fun trolling people.

Originally by: Dilbert HighSeed
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Dilbert HighSeed
So what gives? I understand that Radar sites are rarer, but this is ridiculous. BTW, our pocket has stabilized at 7-10 sites. Every time we kill one, another site pops up, (see percentages above if grav or ladar)

Who said that Radar must be spawned in your system? What a ridiculous mindstream brought this idea into your brain?


Please show me the dev link that explicitly or even implicitly states that some pockets NEVER spawn mag and radar sites.

Exactly my point. There hasn't been any such statement, the whole point of exploratin implies that site of any class could be spawned anywhere with few exceptions (Ladar (gas) sites can't be found in highsec a while ago, doubt it's still true). The quality and content of that spawned site, however, depends on the region it's spawned in.
But please answer me, why it must spawn in the same system as your POS?
You know there's like 5 or 7 thousands of systems, with - what? - 250 Radar sites, even spawned simultaneously, what is doubtful, you have less than 5% chance to have one in present system.

Cadde
Gallente
221st Century Warfare
Posted - 2009.03.21 05:27:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
You either complete idiot or just having fun trolling people.


Not trolling and not an idiot. Let me rephrase it since you clearly didn't get it the first time...

The sites in high sec, even if they are radar/ladar/mag/grav/unkonwns are NOT the same as the ones in Low-sec/null-sec. Sure they carry the same TYPE but not the same content.
I have been in and out of MANY high-sec -> W-Space wormholes. On average there has been one in three W-spaces with NOTHING but grav sites in them. This was the case on SISI as well, there where NO poses in them and NOTHING that imply that someone has been there cleaning said sites out.
Is it really that far fetched to assume W-space is different to K-space? You have 6 classes of W-space (k-space has 3)
My findings suggest that this is the case, from now on i will check against the extracted bulk data and see if class 1 has a higher frequency of ONLY grav sites compared to class 2 w-space.

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Dilbert HighSeed
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Dilbert HighSeed
So what gives? I understand that Radar sites are rarer, but this is ridiculous. BTW, our pocket has stabilized at 7-10 sites. Every time we kill one, another site pops up, (see percentages above if grav or ladar)

Who said that Radar must be spawned in your system? What a ridiculous mindstream brought this idea into your brain?


Please show me the dev link that explicitly or even implicitly states that some pockets NEVER spawn mag and radar sites.

Exactly my point. There hasn't been any such statement, the whole point of exploratin implies that site of any class could be spawned anywhere with few exceptions (Ladar (gas) sites can't be found in highsec a while ago, doubt it's still true). The quality and content of that spawned site, however, depends on the region it's spawned in.
But please answer me, why it must spawn in the same system as your POS?
You know there's like 5 or 7 thousands of systems, with - what? - 250 Radar sites, even spawned simultaneously, what is doubtful, you have less than 5% chance to have one in present system.


There has been no such statement saying there HAS to be radar sites in every W-space either. And you probably wont get one because CCP wish for us to find out ourselves.
So we are just going on theory as with everything else in eve unless it is explained in detail by devs either on the forum or on the wikipedia/dev blogs.

Instead of blaming the lack of signatures on RANDOM stuff like anchoring a pos or logging off before DT or making a bio break. You have to consider the most plausible reason as to why your system depletes itself of radar sites.

Part is, you scan them and finish them off. Part is they despawn over time and spawn elsewhere.
My other assumtion is that WHEN the first W-spaces where seeded, they distribution of said sites where fairly even across the board. And if the sites spawn in the same class space as you are in then it surely isn't impossible for them to spawn in systems with or without people and poses in them.
I find it hard to believe people in W-space where these sites spawn will come to the forums and whine about it.

SEE THE FULL PICTURE before you post about it.
And stop calling people trolls and idiots when they disagree with you.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2009.03.21 07:22:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Cadde
SEE THE FULL PICTURE before you post about it.
And stop calling people trolls and idiots when they disagree with you.


You were substituting my words with your own thoughts, not just disagree.
That's why I have quoted whole your reply.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2009.06.14 19:52:00 - [45]
 

Why can't people just accept that WH spawns are not what they want and, well, stop acting like they are entitled to more spawns in a WH just because they spent ISK on a POS. Nobody put a gun to anybodys head and forced them to do it.

There are better reasons to have a POS in a WH than making ISK.

(Launching attacks from them for example Twisted Evil )

Kataclismo
Gallente
Imperium .H.E.M.P.
Posted - 2009.06.15 01:46:00 - [46]
 

Ok, it may be random, but it need to be reworked.

The WH system that I'm inside is a class 3 and had for 1 month like 3 complexs, sometimes only one, not more then 3 ore belts and 2 gas clouds, last week it had only two gass clouds, and since yesterday we have NOTHING besides ONE or TWO wormhole exit, being sometimes one to another wormhole and another to empire or both to empire...

But you know... we had like 6 site at time besides the wormholes exits, now since yesterday nothing shows up except the wormholes, and things were diminishing day by day... what happens here?

Una D
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2009.06.15 08:47:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: CCP Abathur
There is no mechanic that links anchoring a starbase to the number or availability of sites spawning. It is completely random by design.


What the hell. Didn't one of you devs confirm that POS anchoring is supposed to break spawning of exploration sites in order to prevent farming?

Could you at CCP agree on one version please and than communicate it to the players.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.15 08:52:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 15/06/2009 08:54:48
Next time I should check dates before replying. ugh

Necro.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.06.15 10:55:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Una D
Originally by: CCP Abathur
There is no mechanic that links anchoring a starbase to the number or availability of sites spawning. It is completely random by design.


What the hell. Didn't one of you devs confirm that POS anchoring is supposed to break spawning of exploration sites in order to prevent farming?

Could you at CCP agree on one version please and than communicate it to the players.

There never was a confirmation. Chronotis (iirc) merely said that wormholes are not designed to make settling that much profitable. Any single overfarmed system will sooner or later run out of sites and/or have them at a much lower number while systems that are not cleaned out tend to collect a high amount of sites.

This is why hub systems are so sought after. You always have a connection to a new system that may have not being cleaned out for a while and brimming with sites. And once the wormhole there closes, a new one to another new system appears.

It's all in the little details of exploration functionality.Wink

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2009.06.15 11:50:00 - [50]
 

I have set up a POS on test server and i am not clearing any sites , i shall see for my own eyes.

Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
Posted - 2009.06.15 12:22:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Una D
Originally by: CCP Abathur
There is no mechanic that links anchoring a starbase to the number or availability of sites spawning. It is completely random by design.


What the hell. Didn't one of you devs confirm that POS anchoring is supposed to break spawning of exploration sites in order to prevent farming?

Could you at CCP agree on one version please and than communicate it to the players.

There never was a confirmation. Chronotis (iirc) merely said that wormholes are not designed to make settling that much profitable. Any single overfarmed system will sooner or later run out of sites and/or have them at a much lower number while systems that are not cleaned out tend to collect a high amount of sites.
It was Greyscale who said it (linky). Hub systems are definitely the way to go. Or just leave your POS system alone (don't even probe around in it) for a day or two and you'll usually get a good respawn.

Letrange
Minmatar
Red Horizon Inc
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.06.15 14:31:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Catari Taga
Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Una D
Originally by: CCP Abathur
There is no mechanic that links anchoring a starbase to the number or availability of sites spawning. It is completely random by design.


What the hell. Didn't one of you devs confirm that POS anchoring is supposed to break spawning of exploration sites in order to prevent farming?

Could you at CCP agree on one version please and than communicate it to the players.

There never was a confirmation. Chronotis (iirc) merely said that wormholes are not designed to make settling that much profitable. Any single overfarmed system will sooner or later run out of sites and/or have them at a much lower number while systems that are not cleaned out tend to collect a high amount of sites.
It was Greyscale who said it (linky). Hub systems are definitely the way to go. Or just leave your POS system alone (don't even probe around in it) for a day or two and you'll usually get a good respawn.

You realize of course that nothing Greyscale said confirmed or denied anything about POS's affecting spawn rates. What he said is simply covered by a low natural spawn rate.

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2009.06.15 21:52:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Faith O'Siras
Originally by: CCP Abathur
There is no mechanic that links anchoring a starbase to the number or availability of sites spawning. It is completely random by design.


Are you saying there is zero chance that conflicting code somewhere could be ... well, conflicting? I think I've heard that song and dance before. Rolling Eyes




I think if people anchored towers and continued to get lots of decent spawns, they probably wouldn't moan about it on the forums.

Kataclismo
Gallente
Imperium .H.E.M.P.
Posted - 2009.06.16 03:50:00 - [54]
 

Today the WH class 3 that Im inside has only one complex, that was a common one with only one wave of sleepers, less then 40M in salvage and loot.

This is the 4 day of a "close to no site" inside my wormhole.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2009.06.20 14:06:00 - [55]
 

My POS in Wh space so far :

I had 13 anomalies , 13 signatures
I havent scanned signatures or warped to them.
I have initiated warp to ALL anomalies and then stopped.

The difference is that i have 12 signatures so far ( so nothing really changed so far ) .
But the interesting part is ALL anomalies despawned tonight.

Any idea why ?. It seems as if they dont naturraly despawn until there is a presence in w-system , i have triggered thier despawn timer.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.21 06:55:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2

I have initiated warp to ALL anomalies and then stopped.

....

But the interesting part is ALL anomalies despawned tonight.

.....

It seems as if they dont naturraly despawn until there is a presence in w-system , i have triggered thier despawn timer.


If I get it right you think that WH sites don't despawn (ever, even after several days) if you don't trigger the timer warping to them?

It is plausible thing and it can easily explain the difference between unexplored systems full of signatures and explored systems almos devoid of them.


BharkKoum Zeer
Gallente
Amarr Empire Research Copr
Posted - 2009.06.22 13:59:00 - [57]
 

The wormhole systems do empty out after a period of time. For the last week there have been no gravimetric, ladar, radar, or magnetometric site. The question is where do they go? The sites do seem to all gather up in unused systems and not in systems that have POS'es. I would suggest that a solution would be to make the connection wh to these other systems last longer than the 16 hours they seem to last. This will allow players to exploit the connection systems for their signatures.

I found at least 3 wh systems with good sugnature amounts connected to my home system but by the time I am able to get the sigs all checked out and get corpies to go out there and exploit them , the wh connection will be gone.

There should be some regular despawning of signals whether they are activated or not in order to keep signals popping up in all systems as opposed to them sitting in the same place unused.


Garst Tyrell
No.Mercy
Merciless.
Posted - 2009.06.22 14:17:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Garst Tyrell on 22/06/2009 14:19:43
Edited by: Garst Tyrell on 22/06/2009 14:19:34
I didnt read any of the replies so if its been said before, /shrug

The reason you have so few spawns is because sleeper sites only respawn from a set pool of sites. When a player closes a site, another one of that type spawns somewhere else. Not enough people are doing class 5 sites to get them respawn en masse, so although your wh has the correct respawn rate, you perceive it as extremely low because you are living there and watching it closely.

Thats why I never suggest POS for w-space living unless you pack it up and take it with you as you go roaming in w-space.

I have a thread on it here (another forum):
http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=26612
Original thread has two screenshots showing a POS and about 30 sigs in system.


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