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blankseplocked Freedom: The Myth
 
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PaulAtreides
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.08.17 10:54:00 - [1]
 

This word, I find, has absolutly no real meaning. What is "it"?

From what I understand it is a concept developed by people in the hopes of making you believe that in a 'different' situation you somehow don't have control over your own life. This in turn supposedly makes you feel gratified with your lot.

Your Thoughts.


Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.08.17 10:56:00 - [2]
 

I see much flaming and a big lock.


PaulAtreides
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.08.17 10:58:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Miso
I see much flaming and a big lock.




It is a theoretical debate. No harm intended. If you feel uncomforatable with the topic feel 'free' to not reply.


Shade Widow
Gallente
Maximum Velocity Munitions
Posted - 2004.08.17 11:47:00 - [4]
 

Freedom is the ability to do whatever you want.

Freedom=Anarchy

Hence freedom can not be attained fully otherwise we would all be killing eachother and ext.

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.08.17 12:10:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: PaulAtreides
Originally by: Miso
I see much flaming and a big lock.




It is a theoretical debate. No harm intended. If you feel uncomforatable with the topic feel 'free' to not reply.




Im referring to the fact that such discussions will enivitably involv RL politics, hence the forecast lock. GL with your discussion though...Very Happy

Ebedar
Gallente
Primary Intelligence
Posted - 2004.08.17 12:15:00 - [6]
 


hired goon
Posted - 2004.08.17 12:18:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: hired goon on 17/08/2004 12:25:01
The freedom that millions of people in World War 2 died for is being spat on by politically correct people who decide I can't call a blackboard a blackboard, because it's racist.

DoZ3r
Caldari
Sacred Templars
Black Swan.
Posted - 2004.08.17 12:22:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: hired goon
Freedom and democracy are what the United States is bringing to the people of Iraq. God bless the US of A.


Shocked

Do you really believe that??

hired goon
Posted - 2004.08.17 12:26:00 - [9]
 

I said no such thing! Very Happy

Harry Stoteles
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.08.17 12:53:00 - [10]
 


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
Janis Joplin


Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2004.08.17 13:04:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Rodj Blake on 17/08/2004 13:12:07

One quote from memory regarding freedom, originally by (I think) Benjamin Franklin.

Quote:
Those who are willing to give up some liberty in exchange for security, deserve neither liberty nor security.


Since this is a non-political forum, I'll leave it up to you to work out how I believe this fits in with current events.

Meanwhile, here's the true meaning of freedom...

Freedom, CA (CDP, FIPS 25576)
Location: 36.94003 N, 121.78932 W
Population (1990): 8361 (2374 housing units)
Area: 4.2 sq km (land), 0.0 sq km (water)
Zip code(s): 95019

Freedom, IN
Zip code(s): 47431

Freedom, ME
Zip code(s): 04941

Freedom, NH
Zip code(s): 03836

Freedom, NY
Zip code(s): 14065

Freedom, OK (town, FIPS 27850)
Location: 36.76652 N, 99.11256 W
Population (1990): 264 (147 housing units)
Area: 0.7 sq km (land), 0.0 sq km (water)
Zip code(s): 73842

Freedom, PA (borough, FIPS 27712)
Location: 40.68465 N, 80.25336 W
Population (1990): 1897 (774 housing units)
Area: 1.5 sq km (land), 0.3 sq km (water)
Zip code(s): 15042

Freedom, WY
Zip code(s): 83120

From these figures, we can conclude that not very many people in the US live in Freedom Wink



hired goon
Posted - 2004.08.17 13:41:00 - [12]
 

lol! excellent Very Happy

PaulAtreides
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.08.17 13:57:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Shade Widow
Freedom is the ability to do whatever you want.

Freedom=Anarchy

Hence freedom can not be attained fully otherwise we would all be killing eachother and ext.


Fair enough, but the antithisis would be: How can you not not do whatever you want? Morals and Ethics should not be confused with laws and politics. They are very different.


PaulAtreides
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.08.17 14:00:00 - [14]
 

Oh, yeah and please dont mention any countries or politics or religion in this thread. We are free to discuss this here as long as we are contrained within the diameters of the rules of this board ('Freedom' within a box?).


Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.08.17 14:36:00 - [15]
 

Wow, I must be psychic or somethingVery Happy

Vegeta
Minmatar
Guiding Hand Social Club
Dystopia Alliance
Posted - 2004.08.17 14:37:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: hired goon
Edited by: hired goon on 17/08/2004 12:25:01
The freedom that millions of people in World War 2 died for is being spat on by politically correct people who decide I can't call a blackboard a blackboard, because it's racist.


Its african-american board! Racist!

j/k

Vegeta
Minmatar
Guiding Hand Social Club
Dystopia Alliance
Posted - 2004.08.17 14:37:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: hired goon
Edited by: hired goon on 17/08/2004 12:25:01
The freedom that millions of people in World War 2 died for is being spat on by politically correct people who decide I can't call a blackboard a blackboard, because it's racist.


Its african-american board! Racist!

j/k

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2004.08.17 19:32:00 - [18]
 

Freedom = Indifference of others towards you.

Plim
Gallente
Everything Financial
Posted - 2004.08.17 19:55:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Plim on 17/08/2004 20:01:10
If by Freedom what is meant is Free Society, then the only logical system by which a free society can exist, is a system in which the only limitation is the inability to take away the freedoms of others.

This is why it is so illogical to call a society which is based on private ownership "free". As a society in which some have more freedoms than others, clearly is not a free society - if one accepts the above definition.

Viceroy
Posted - 2004.08.17 20:04:00 - [20]
 

lol @ vegeta LaughingLaughing

PaulAtreides
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.08.17 21:06:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Plim
Edited by: Plim on 17/08/2004 20:01:10
If by Freedom what is meant is Free Society, then the only logical system by which a free society can exist, is a system in which the only limitation is the inability to take away the freedoms of others.

This is why it is so illogical to call a society which is based on private ownership "free". As a society in which some have more freedoms than others, clearly is not a free society - if one accepts the above definition.



Very good.
How would one person be more 'free' then another person? Personal choice is something we all have. We can always choose to do something or not. If some people have more choices does that really mean that they are more 'free'? If so does that in turn mean that +$ = +freedom?


Azure Skyclad
Amarr
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2004.08.17 21:35:00 - [22]
 

Talking about Freedom is kinda pointless whne the vast majority of humanity can't see past each individual's wants. Freedom today tends to mean "What i can get away with before someone tries to stop me getting away with it."

Freedom begins on an individual level. Most of the crap we see in the world nowadays is because most (if not all) of us havn't got a clue that freedom is as much about self discipline as it is about doing what you want.

Bit deep for Tuesday evening but, there ye go. Wink


Plim
Gallente
Everything Financial
Posted - 2004.08.18 12:37:00 - [23]
 

Quote:
Very good.
How would one person be more 'free' then another person? Personal choice is something we all have. We can always choose to do something or not. If some people have more choices does that really mean that they are more 'free'? If so does that in turn mean that +$ = +freedom?


In a system which is inherently unequal many people are more "free" than others. So for example if land/resources are owned by a minority, that minority can force others to work via wage labour in order to survive.

Therefore in such a society, certain people have greater freedom than others, because they have the ability to take freedom from others. So it is a logical conclusion that in order to have a free society, it must be an equal society.

Limited "personal choice" does not change material conditions.

So it is not a "free society" if someone has the freedom the murder someone, in the same way that it is not a free society, if someone has the freedom to exploit others through private ownership, because that society would have an un-equal set of freedoms. As people should equally have the freedom to life, and the freedom to profit from thier own labour etc.

Ichabod Dirange
Posted - 2004.08.18 13:24:00 - [24]
 

In short there would be no McDonalds in the land of the free.

Latex Mistress
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2004.08.18 16:29:00 - [25]
 

I love all the dime-store philosophers on this board...Rolling Eyes

Paul: "freedom", by definition, is the ability to act independent of outside influence.

Attrael
Caldari
Axemaker Inc
Posted - 2004.08.18 17:21:00 - [26]
 

True freedom can only be achieved through death. For it is at that point that you aren't bound by the will of others, and there's nothing that others can take away from you. Neither by force, or otherwise.

Lianhaun
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.08.18 17:25:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Lianhaun on 18/08/2004 17:26:42
Morals and Ethics should not be confused with laws and politics. They are very different.

Moral and Ethics are applied in politics and laws. They formed the basis of laws and politics. M0st political decisions are taken on utilist's ideas ( largest good for the greatest number of people. So saying morals and ethics shouldn't be cofnsued with laws and politics is kinda hard since they are fused together.

However I'm in favour of Kants idea of freedom ( categorical imperative I think its knows as)but I cant seem to forget about what Marx said about freedom and labour either. Hegel later on perfected the idea ( imho)

To put it briefly, there cant be general freedom if there are no laws or guidelines that resrict a bit of your freedom to grant someone else theirs.
( I want to play very loud music, but deafening my neighbours takes away their freedom and choice to enjoy a reasonable quiet afternoon')

Freedom doesn't mean you can sit down and do nothing all day either, because when you are free and act free something very irritating comes along as well ; responsibility.

Just 2 cents of an entire bookload of thoughts from me.

*prepares for serious arguments and hopes she has all her books present at her bf's home*


Lianhaun
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.08.18 17:28:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Latex Mistress
I love all the dime-store philosophers on this board...Rolling Eyes

Paul: "freedom", by definition, is the ability to act independent of outside influence.



Entering my third year in september ( major in philosophy)
And I think there are as many definitions of freedom, reality, thruth and more of those abstract themes as you have have philosophers.

Hakera
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2004.08.18 19:00:00 - [29]
 

freedom

yours ends where the next persons begins!

and a little quote

Quote:
It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either.


--Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)


Mitawyn
Caldari
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2004.08.18 21:33:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Harry Stoteles

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
Janis Joplin




"nothin ain't worth nothin, but it's free"


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