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Dallenovic
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.04.08 18:44:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: CCP Nozh
"Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser" is being changed into a Khanid subsystem. Now getting a 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire and a 5% bonus heavy assault missile damage with 5 launcher hardpoints. Coupled with the changed "Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier" you'll be able to field 6 launchers, dealing plenty of damage.


This is not what i had in mind i was really looking forward to some close range enguagements where heavy pulse or focused mediums can track well, splitting the offensive subsystems is a bit harsh especially when u compare it to the tengus bonii

Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Subsystem Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to kinetic missile damage per level
7.5% bonus to Heavy, Heavy Assault and Assault missile launcher rate of fire per level
10% bonus to heavy missile and heavy assault missile velocity per level

Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization
Subsystem Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to heavy assault missile damage per level
5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire per level

I like the fact that the 5% damage is not restricted to a damage type on the Legion, but the Tengu completely beats it as it can use multiple weapons system with bonii and has an extra 2.5% rof per level which at level 5 would mean that the tengus damage modifier through rof = 1/0.625 = 1.6x dmg and the Legion is 1/0.75 = 1.333 thats 27% more damage not to mention that it has better range capabilities which is useful for HAMS, the Legion needs Velocity/ Flight time/ Explosion Velocity/ Radius bonus to be on par. Or do the Khanid thing and give it a 25m drone band width and 50m drone bay to deal with small stuff

Originally by: CCP Nozh
"4th Offensive subsystem:

Covert Ops Cloaking Device fitting bonus. Ability to deploy and use a Covert Ops Cynosural Field. They'll have a single damage bonus (Amarr only gets the standard capacity bonus) and 4 turret slots.


Give amarr a damage bonus for a start or a 7.5% to rof like the loki. Think abaddon style cap maintainence. This is awsome, and i have a feeling that Recons will stil be around due to cost factor so people should stop moaning about replaced completely, cost is always a factor (unless your PL). These ships can fit 5 guns and a cloak. WiN! Fit a MWD web scram and disrputor and a buffer fitting for some epic uncloaking lolz

Originally by: CCP Nozh
"4th Propulsion Subsystem:

Immunity against warp disruption fields. Deployed, launched and/or projected. They won't grant an extra slot like the other propulsion subsystems and will make your ship less agile. The agility drawback can be nullified by training the subsystem skill.


This is interesting and can make for some very nasty ships that will be fun to fly. I think however that if you fit this and fit a wcs and have scan res subsys u could have outrunning capability that will make people cry, true hit and run ship.

Originally by: CCP Nozh
"4th Engineering Subsystem:

Will give you another bonus to heat damage reduction, allowing you to overheat your modules for an extended period of time. I'm going to be doing some extensive heat time testing to see if we need to adjust these bonuses.


This is a good idea, i like how you have restriceted it by one turret/launcher but this is the same bonus as on the strategic cruiser itself and agree with the others that it should be effectiveness to the overheating, but should be in comparison to the 15% rof or 20% resistances on hardners etc. Say you make it 12.5% per level, but this was caluclated like 0.125 *5 * 15 (+original) = 24.375% rof and 32.5% resistanses (invu) at level 5.


IceAero
Amarr
Shadow Company
Posted - 2009.04.08 19:16:00 - [242]
 

Edited by: IceAero on 08/04/2009 19:15:58
Originally by: Dallenovic


Originally by: CCP Nozh
"4th Engineering Subsystem:

Will give you another bonus to heat damage reduction, allowing you to overheat your modules for an extended period of time. I'm going to be doing some extensive heat time testing to see if we need to adjust these bonuses.


This is a good idea, i like how you have restriceted it by one turret/launcher but this is the same bonus as on the strategic cruiser itself and agree with the others that it should be effectiveness to the overheating, but should be in comparison to the 15% rof or 20% resistances on hardners etc. Say you make it 12.5% per level, but this was caluclated like 0.125 *5 * 15 (+original) = 24.375% rof and 32.5% resistanses (invu) at level 5.




Yeah...The more I play around with this 4th engineering subsystem the more fail I think it is.

When put on the legion, for example, it's got the same cap-recharge as the powercore multiplier (which is ok at best).

The supplemental cooling system just doesn't give anyone a Reason to use it. Being able to overheat a bit longer is great, but it doesn't make up for the bonuses the other systems have, i.e. PG amount / cap recharge / total cap / +1 hardpoint.

If you keep Everything the way it is...I'd think making it a bonus to overheat bonus would balance things. It probably does make for some hard-hitting set ups and maybe some crazy tanks...but only for 3, MAYBE 4 minutes...aka, useless in pve, and only going to affect solo-ish pvp (unless you have a gang of t3 ships Twisted Evil).

Perry
Amarr
The X-Trading Company
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.04.08 19:24:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: IceAero
I'd think making it a bonus to overheat bonus would balance things.


No. +1 Turret is way more powerful then maybe 3 minutes worth of overheating less turrets.

IceAero
Amarr
Shadow Company
Posted - 2009.04.08 19:41:00 - [244]
 

Edited by: IceAero on 08/04/2009 19:42:24
Originally by: Perry
Originally by: IceAero
I'd think making it a bonus to overheat bonus would balance things.


No. +1 Turret is way more powerful then maybe 3 minutes worth of overheating less turrets.


hum...is it? I didn't run the math on it.

Oh wait, duh. It's only -3.75% rof at lvlV (if it's a 5% bonus to over-heat bonus, -7.5% if it's 10% per level), when compared to the normal turret overheating.

You can't make it too high, since it affects resistance mods/tanking mods.

I'm not sure what the solution is then. Maybe +1 hardpoint AND 5% bonus to heat damage AND bonus. It would still have low PG for that many hardpoints, and the cap recharge would be weak, so maybe it's balanced.

Dallenovic
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.04.08 20:17:00 - [245]
 

If you get an extra 30% dps out of your ship and can fit a good setup, why is powergrid needed if you only need to fit 5 guns instead of 6? Thats 10% over a 6th (5 turrets, 100%/5 = 20%) turret option but with the drawback of u have to overheat to get this bonus, and repair between fights.

And would be nice to have the combination of 25% less heat damage from hull, more bonus to overheated modules thermodynamics 5 nanite operation 5 nanite interfacing 5.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.04.08 22:35:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 07/04/2009 20:48:44
If I understand correctly? The Tegnu as well gets 4 turret hardpoints? Is not that a bit off? Launcher hardpoints would be far more appropriate.

EDIT: In regards to the 4th offencive sys

I'd say avoiding the missile flight delay would be a great benefit when you want to gank small stuff and gtfo of there.


A point that I think far outweighs this is that a lot of Caldari got more missile skills then gunnery. And making it gunnery just makes missiles that less usefull.

I'd think it better to reward thoose who actually train missiles with a cov ops ship that uses misisles, after all Faclon will now be a rail ship, so no cov ops recon is ship with missiles.

Well, makes sense in my mind at least.

Merins idea about a Sansha'ish system is also interesting, 100% misisle damage, 3 hardpoints (or hybrid damage bouns if it satys turret hardpoint)

Lijhal
Posted - 2009.04.09 07:44:00 - [247]
 

Originally by: Dallenovic


Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Subsystem Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to kinetic missile damage per level
7.5% bonus to Heavy, Heavy Assault and Assault missile launcher rate of fire per level
10% bonus to heavy missile and heavy assault missile velocity per level

Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization
Subsystem Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to heavy assault missile damage per level
5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire per level

I like the fact that the 5% damage is not restricted to a damage type on the Legion, but the Tengu completely beats it as it can use multiple weapons system with bonii and has an extra 2.5% rof per level which at level 5 would mean that the tengus damage modifier through rof = 1/0.625 = 1.6x dmg and the Legion is 1/0.75 = 1.333 thats 27% more damage not to mention that it has better range capabilities which is useful for HAMS, the Legion needs Velocity/ Flight time/ Explosion Velocity/ Radius bonus to be on par. Or do the Khanid thing and give it a 25m drone band width and 50m drone bay to deal with small stuff




the two posted subsystems are fine ... caldari are the missile race and the tengu should outdamaged the legion khanid subsystem in any way ... why else should we fly a tengu (caldari) if a legion (amarr) can everythinng better?

so, no change here, there are fine as they should

oh wait ....

Perry
Amarr
The X-Trading Company
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.04.09 10:53:00 - [248]
 

Originally by: Lijhal

the two posted subsystems are fine ... caldari are the missile race and the tengu should outdamaged the legion khanid subsystem in any way ... why else should we fly a tengu (caldari) if a legion (amarr) can everythinng better?


Then we should nerf the Tengu Turret Bonus a bit, because Amarr clearly are the turret race...

Wink

Lijhal
Posted - 2009.04.09 11:39:00 - [249]
 

Originally by: Perry
Originally by: Lijhal

the two posted subsystems are fine ... caldari are the missile race and the tengu should outdamaged the legion khanid subsystem in any way ... why else should we fly a tengu (caldari) if a legion (amarr) can everythinng better?


Then we should nerf the Tengu Turret Bonus a bit, because Amarr clearly are the turret race...

Wink


you forgot your /sarcasm

again, almost all subsystems are fine ... proteus & loki still need some love ... but we dont need to nerf tengu's turret subsystem because it does not outdamaged any legion, proteus or even loki t3 combination at all ... so your sarcasm does not *fit* here :)

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2009.04.09 14:35:00 - [250]
 

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
A point that I think far outweighs this is that a lot of Caldari got more missile skills then gunnery. And making it gunnery just makes missiles that less usefull.


It's far from ALL caldari pilots, though. Hybrid gunnery is a perfectly valid Caldari warfare choice. Hell, just look at our tier 3 battleship. Personally, I have twelve million SP in gunnery, but only 2 million in missiles, and I'm exclusively a Caldari pilot.

I agree that the majority of Caldari pilots focus on missiles, but it's not everyone, and those of us who prefer to use guns need some love as well.

CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Recreation Of The World
Posted - 2009.04.09 14:41:00 - [251]
 

so did they change the amarr +tracking,damge, (can't remember the last one), with the cov up cloak thing?

hmm personally i think it is extremely stupid to give them cov ups.. suddenly every ship in game seems to be able to use these, making the ships that have some extreme handicaps (becouse they can use them) even less usefull.)

Sera Ryskin
Posted - 2009.04.09 17:01:00 - [252]
 

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Merins idea about a Sansha'ish system is also interesting, 100% misisle damage, 3 hardpoints (or hybrid damage bouns if it satys turret hardpoint)


Oh god no. NOT missiles. Lasers. It must use lasers, or it is not acceptable. Note that I did not say Sansha-ish, I said Sanshas, literally, as a set of subsystems (one per race) from the pirate factions.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2009.04.09 17:17:00 - [253]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 09/04/2009 17:18:19
I'm having trouble figuring out why the CPU Efficiency Gate subsystem even exists. As far as I can tell, it's useless.

Despite my best efforts in EFT, I've been unable to produce a single realistically useful Tengu setup that broke the CPU limit of the other two electronic subsystems. Pure ECM setups with heavy assault launchers and lots of sensor upgrades came closest, but even then, they didn't actually break the CPU limit until I started fitting modules that just didn't make sense.

In other words, as far as I can tell, the CPU Efficiency Gate is unnecessary, as all the militarily useful setups - even all the horribly CPU-intensive ones that I came up with - could be fit just fine without it. Which is a shame because it is, in my opinion, the most badass-looking of the Tengu electronics subsystems

Now I'll admit, I have pretty great fitting skills. But the yawning cavity between the requirements of these fits and what even the non-dedicated subsystems were producing suggests to me that the fitting would be pretty generous regardless. That and the fact that the Efficiency Gate produces an extra lowslot as opposed to a mid...

It just doesn't work. It seems to me to be effectively useless next to the other three subsystems. I'd suggest taking a look into giving it a new and alternative role (how about sensor resolution and range?), or at least rebalancing the CPU output of the other electronic subsystems, and shifting the 1 lowslot that the efficiency gate gives upwards into a midslot.

Sera Ryskin
Posted - 2009.04.09 18:21:00 - [254]
 

Now, the problems with your new systems:

Caldari covops subsystem: This is obviously bugged. 5% hybrid damage/level, 4 missile hardpoints and zero turret hardpoints.

Scan probe subsystem: these need to give +1 high, +3 mid, not the current +4 mid. Since utility (non-primary-weapon) high slots are only available on subsystems that already have something (remote reps, neuts) to put there, fitting a scan probe launcher, even with the dedicated subsystem, means giving up a gun slot. This is a fatal penalty, and ensures that the subsystem will rarely, if ever, be used.

Gang mod subsystem: these have two problems:

1) No grid reduction. 200 grid is way too much for these ships. I was looking at fitting one on my Tengu, since I have awesome leadership skills, but it's just impossible. There's no way to get 200 grid without completely crippling the setup elsewhere. And I suspect the 50 CPU might be a problem on the CPU-limited ships. Just change the fixed bonus to -100% fitting requirements for gang mods.

2) Penalty is too harsh. Not only do you lose a tank bonus, but you also lose a tank slot. This is just too much, IMO, especially given how expensive these ships will be. I understand wanting to keep the total slots the same, but it's ok to break the pattern in the interest of overall balance. Keep the tank slots the same, and just give the free high slot (ex: for the Tengu, +2 mid, +1 high).

Khanid subsystem: as someone said above, when you first released the Khanid ships, you said that 5% HAM-only damage is equal to 5% kinetic-only damage, so why does the Legion get a smaller damage bonus than the Tengu? The Khanid subsystem needs to change to 5% HAM damage, 7.5% ROF and gain a 25m3 drone bay (instead of the Tengu's 10% velocity).

Covops subsystem: honestly, these are pretty underwhelming. Remember you're competing with the gun Pilgrim (Pilgrim with blasters or pulse lasers instead of nos/neuts), which can easily get 450 dps. A covops T3 cruiser will have much more tank, of course, but weaker dps. Even with the engineering subsystems that give +1 launcher/turret, you're talking about only T1 cruiser dps. Overall this is just pretty disappointing, and I'd have a very hard time ever justifying flying a covops T3 cruiser over my much cheaper gun Pilgrim.

I'd like to say just keep the bonuses the same as the other combat systems and just remove a weapon slot, but I'm not sure that would be balanced. Honestly, I think they were a bad idea in the first place, it's way too difficult to find the balance between too weak and massively overpowered.

Haldir Ravenclaw
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.04.10 15:37:00 - [255]
 

I wonder if the 5% effectiveness bonus to warfare links subsystem will be split between the races (so the Proteus would get 5% effectiveness to information warfare, Legion 5% to armoured warfare and so on)? Hopefully not so that each race can use all the types of warfare links but I get the feeling they will be split - looks like I'll finally have to train Amarr Shocked

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2009.04.10 15:40:00 - [256]
 

There's some confusion over the Tengu Engineering subsystems I think. We have:

Capacitor Regeneration Matrix - +825 PG, 3 low-slots, +2100 cap, 5% recharge bonus
Enough PG here for a decent fitting - can easily fit HAMs and Damage Mods, lots of cap too.

Augmented Capacitor Reservoir - +600 PG, +1 Launcher/Hi-slot, +2 Low-slots, +1225 cap, 5% capacity bonus
So not only does it have less Cap than the Regeneration version at level 5, there's decreased Powergrid which makes fitting that 6th launcher it gets much more difficult. Losing a low-slot dosen't help much either since you're more likely to be needing an RCU, meaning no room left for BCS and the end result is you're doing less damage with 6 launchers than you were before with 5...

Power Core Multiplier - +555 PG, +1 Turret/Hi-slot, +2 Low-slots, +1225 cap, 5% PG bonus
This one makes no sense at all. It's supposed to be the one to maximize powergrid yet starts with the lowest? At level 5 you still get under 700, which is no match for the 825 of the Regen one. Again, the extra Turret is kind of meaningless here since you won't have the PG to actually fit the thing.

Am I missing something?... Shocked

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2009.04.10 17:59:00 - [257]
 

Just one thing. A mix that allows 125Mbit on the Proteus!

Lillith Vitae
Posted - 2009.04.10 23:36:00 - [258]
 

I may be alone on this thought, but since currently there is no ships that is really for gas cloud harvesting I would like to see a subsystem that gets some sort of bonus to that.

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.04.11 00:12:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Haldir Ravenclaw
I wonder if the 5% effectiveness bonus to warfare links subsystem will be split between the races (so the Proteus would get 5% effectiveness to information warfare, Legion 5% to armoured warfare and so on)? Hopefully not so that each race can use all the types of warfare links but I get the feeling they will be split - looks like I'll finally have to train Amarr Shocked
on sisi, they're indeed split
yes, i'm spreading 3x -28.125% armor-love with the legion right now

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2009.04.11 11:11:00 - [260]
 

Originally by: Rawr Cristina
There's some confusion over the Tengu Engineering subsystems I think. We have:

Capacitor Regeneration Matrix - +825 PG, 3 low-slots, +2100 cap, 5% recharge bonus
Enough PG here for a decent fitting - can easily fit HAMs and Damage Mods, lots of cap too.

Augmented Capacitor Reservoir - +600 PG, +1 Launcher/Hi-slot, +2 Low-slots, +1225 cap, 5% capacity bonus
So not only does it have less Cap than the Regeneration version at level 5, there's decreased Powergrid which makes fitting that 6th launcher it gets much more difficult. Losing a low-slot dosen't help much either since you're more likely to be needing an RCU, meaning no room left for BCS and the end result is you're doing less damage with 6 launchers than you were before with 5...

Power Core Multiplier - +555 PG, +1 Turret/Hi-slot, +2 Low-slots, +1225 cap, 5% PG bonus
This one makes no sense at all. It's supposed to be the one to maximize powergrid yet starts with the lowest? At level 5 you still get under 700, which is no match for the 825 of the Regen one. Again, the extra Turret is kind of meaningless here since you won't have the PG to actually fit the thing.

Am I missing something?... Shocked


couple that lot with the utter worthlessness of the CPUE Efficiency Gate, and I think it's obvious that Tengu needs a fair old bit of tweaking.

Haldir Ravenclaw
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.04.11 15:03:00 - [261]
 

Originally by: Roemy Schneider
Originally by: Haldir Ravenclaw
I wonder if the 5% effectiveness bonus to warfare links subsystem will be split between the races (so the Proteus would get 5% effectiveness to information warfare, Legion 5% to armoured warfare and so on)? Hopefully not so that each race can use all the types of warfare links but I get the feeling they will be split - looks like I'll finally have to train Amarr Shocked
on sisi, they're indeed split
yes, i'm spreading 3x -28.125% armor-love with the legion right now


Thanks for having a look! Not what I like to hear but should be fun. Looks like the Legion will be king for using armour warfare links with the Damnation a close (but significantly cheaper) second!

Now, where did I put those Amarr skillbooks... ugh

Lijhal
Posted - 2009.04.11 18:16:00 - [262]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
There's some confusion over the Tengu Engineering subsystems I think. We have:

Capacitor Regeneration Matrix - +825 PG, 3 low-slots, +2100 cap, 5% recharge bonus
Enough PG here for a decent fitting - can easily fit HAMs and Damage Mods, lots of cap too.

Augmented Capacitor Reservoir - +600 PG, +1 Launcher/Hi-slot, +2 Low-slots, +1225 cap, 5% capacity bonus
So not only does it have less Cap than the Regeneration version at level 5, there's decreased Powergrid which makes fitting that 6th launcher it gets much more difficult. Losing a low-slot dosen't help much either since you're more likely to be needing an RCU, meaning no room left for BCS and the end result is you're doing less damage with 6 launchers than you were before with 5...

Power Core Multiplier - +555 PG, +1 Turret/Hi-slot, +2 Low-slots, +1225 cap, 5% PG bonus
This one makes no sense at all. It's supposed to be the one to maximize powergrid yet starts with the lowest? At level 5 you still get under 700, which is no match for the 825 of the Regen one. Again, the extra Turret is kind of meaningless here since you won't have the PG to actually fit the thing.

Am I missing something?... Shocked


couple that lot with the utter worthlessness of the CPUE Efficiency Gate, and I think it's obvious that Tengu needs a fair old bit of tweaking.


i absolutly agree with both of you ... i dont know if the other racial subsytems are affected by this "bug" , but this is really annoying if you ask meExclamation

the covert ops subsystem also give a wrong bonus ; it says, it gives 5% damage on turrets and not 5% rof for launcher anymore, which should be fixed a.s.a.p

IceAero
Amarr
Shadow Company
Posted - 2009.04.11 19:30:00 - [263]
 

Originally by: Rawr Cristina
There's some confusion over the Tengu Engineering subsystems I think. We have:

Capacitor Regeneration Matrix - +825 PG, 3 low-slots, +2100 cap, 5% recharge bonus
Enough PG here for a decent fitting - can easily fit HAMs and Damage Mods, lots of cap too.

Augmented Capacitor Reservoir - +600 PG, +1 Launcher/Hi-slot, +2 Low-slots, +1225 cap, 5% capacity bonus
So not only does it have less Cap than the Regeneration version at level 5, there's decreased Powergrid which makes fitting that 6th launcher it gets much more difficult. Losing a low-slot dosen't help much either since you're more likely to be needing an RCU, meaning no room left for BCS and the end result is you're doing less damage with 6 launchers than you were before with 5...

Power Core Multiplier - +555 PG, +1 Turret/Hi-slot, +2 Low-slots, +1225 cap, 5% PG bonus
This one makes no sense at all. It's supposed to be the one to maximize powergrid yet starts with the lowest? At level 5 you still get under 700, which is no match for the 825 of the Regen one. Again, the extra Turret is kind of meaningless here since you won't have the PG to actually fit the thing.

Am I missing something?... Shocked


Yes you are missing something quite obvious.

The offensive subsystem for turrets give you and extra 365MW PG.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2009.04.12 00:22:00 - [264]
 

Just read page 4 update:

covops cloak + immunity to bubbles... yeah another "cant kill me combo". Can we get cloak counters soon please? Or do we need to blob gates + spam jetcans and drones to catch those ships?

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2009.04.12 12:36:00 - [265]
 

This may seem a silly question, but how come the various subsystems aren't all properly seeded all of the time, like virtually every other item on the market?

I'm intrigued by the Covert Ops subsystem - what is the motivation behind this? How does it avoid rendering the existing covert ships completely obsolete, other than price? I can see that with the Black Ops now being able to create covert cynos inside jammed systems, this is another ship to bring through, but what about everywhere else?
Originally by: CCP Nozh
"Legion Offensive - Convergent Beam Focuser" is being changed into a Khanid subsystem. Now getting a 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire and a 5% bonus heavy assault missile damage with 5 launcher hardpoints. Coupled with the changed "Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier" you'll be able to field 6 launchers, dealing plenty of damage.

Will we see this make a comeback at any point? Much as I love the addition of a Khanid subsystem, I was rather looking forward to a laser platform with a bonus to tracking...
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Also. The price, don't panic quite yet, we're still confident the price will go down.

I sincerely wish you luck with that, though I'd argue it's akin to wishing the global economy regained confidence. Whilst perhaps slightly off-topic, do you still have a 'target' price you want to see it at (because certainly price has a balance impact, in terms of the likelihood that people will field an item), akin to the various numbers thrown around pre-Apocrypha?

IceAero
Amarr
Shadow Company
Posted - 2009.04.12 14:21:00 - [266]
 

Edited by: IceAero on 12/04/2009 14:24:04
Originally by: Lijhal
Originally by: Dallenovic


Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Subsystem Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to kinetic missile damage per level
7.5% bonus to Heavy, Heavy Assault and Assault missile launcher rate of fire per level
10% bonus to heavy missile and heavy assault missile velocity per level

Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization
Subsystem Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to heavy assault missile damage per level
5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire per level

I like the fact that the 5% damage is not restricted to a damage type on the Legion, but the Tengu completely beats it as it can use multiple weapons system with bonii and has an extra 2.5% rof per level which at level 5 would mean that the tengus damage modifier through rof = 1/0.625 = 1.6x dmg and the Legion is 1/0.75 = 1.333 thats 27% more damage not to mention that it has better range capabilities which is useful for HAMS, the Legion needs Velocity/ Flight time/ Explosion Velocity/ Radius bonus to be on par. Or do the Khanid thing and give it a 25m drone band width and 50m drone bay to deal with small stuff




the two posted subsystems are fine ... caldari are the missile race and the tengu should outdamaged the legion khanid subsystem in any way ... why else should we fly a tengu (caldari) if a legion (amarr) can everythinng better?

so, no change here, there are fine as they should

oh wait ....


I still agree with Dallenovic that the khanid offensive subsystem needs some lovin...

it get's out damaged by the tengu by a large margin! but look at the Sacrilege vs. Cerberus, they do the SAME dps with missiles but the Cerb gets a range bonus, and the Sac gets to use all types of missiles. Oh and the Sac has 3 light drones!

The Khanid offensive subsystem simply needs a 3rd bonus.

Ideas:

+5mbits of drone bandwidth / level. and a 25m3 drone bay.

-----This would make it do equal damage as a HAM Tengu, but also out damage most laser-legion setups if you give it the 6th launcher

+2% to all armor resistances per level

-----Let us not forget that the Khanid ships have better resistances than the other t2 amarr ships

NOTE TO CCP: Please do Something with the Legion's drone subsystem! It gets out damaged by every other ship and combination (covops excluded). I say drop the bonus to laser cap usage, and make it a 5% damage bonus like the Proteus' drone subsystem has. (Should be this way for the amarr covops as well!!)


Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2009.04.13 04:59:00 - [267]
 

I believe if you are giving it the ability to warp cloaked and are giving it things related to tech 2 cruiser hulls, the Ishtar is one of those hulls. A 125m3 drone bandwidth option should be investigated. I know a lot of you will say "overpowered" but the Ishtar is not overpowered.

So please give us this option.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2009.04.13 10:22:00 - [268]
 

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
I believe if you are giving it the ability to warp cloaked and are giving it things related to tech 2 cruiser hulls, the Ishtar is one of those hulls. A 125m3 drone bandwidth option should be investigated. I know a lot of you will say "overpowered" but the Ishtar is not overpowered.

So please give us this option.


ROTFL.

Add also mini doomsday device for good measure...

Ishtar is already one of best HACs even in its current cpu-gimped form. Adding the ability to warp cloaked will make it way overpowered compared to both ishtar and... pilgrim. You are actually creating gallente pilgrim with more dps.

Tibberg
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.04.13 12:35:00 - [269]
 

Edited by: Tibberg on 13/04/2009 12:34:57
The Loki

Specifically the Propulsion subsystems

I think its 175 m/s? and 5% bonus to agility?

OR

165 m/s, 5% bonus to agility AND immune to warp bubbles.

This is a no brainer. immunity to warp bubbles is totally worth 10 m/s. This needs fixing badly before it makes its way onto TQ

Polinus
Caldari
Emptiness.
Posted - 2009.04.13 15:40:00 - [270]
 

Originally by: Tibberg
Edited by: Tibberg on 13/04/2009 12:34:57
The Loki

Specifically the Propulsion subsystems

I think its 175 m/s? and 5% bonus to agility?

OR

165 m/s, 5% bonus to agility AND immune to warp bubbles.

This is a no brainer. immunity to warp bubbles is totally worth 10 m/s. This needs fixing badly before it makes its way onto TQ


check the BASE agility of them both. The immune to warp bubble one has a VERY bad agility before the bonus.


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