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Privateer Stern
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.03.14 13:49:00 - [1]
 

Eve DID BEFORE and NO LONGER runs on my laptop. I know I read that there was going to be a version for lower end systems, but now I'm told my laptop needs a video card that supports shader 2. Where's the version that will play on my laptop? It did before...

Almori
Posted - 2009.03.14 14:20:00 - [2]
 

I see you failed to read the dev blogs. Fair enough, I'll tell you. You can't play Eve on your laptop anymore. Nothing to do about it.

Privateer Stern
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.03.14 14:51:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Almori
I see you failed to read the dev blogs. Fair enough, I'll tell you. You can't play Eve on your laptop anymore. Nothing to do about it.


No, but I did read somewhere that they were discontinuing classic download but WERE going to provide a version for low-end systems.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2009.03.14 15:02:00 - [4]
 

There is just one client now. It automatically detects your hardware's capabilities and runs in either Shader Model 3 mode (this is the same as the former Premium version) or Shader Model 2 mode (this mode is what was referred to as "Premium Lite" during development). If your computer does not support at minimum Shader Model 2 then you need to upgrade.

Marenubium
Posted - 2009.03.14 15:16:00 - [5]
 

Well, mister CCP, then there is something wrong with your 'detection' tool, because I've seen a lot of trouble here the past few days, with vga cards that ACTUALLY DO support SM 2.0.

My guess is, you guys have gone over the head with this apocalyptic update, and there are tooo many issues here to be resolved.
Either get that 'low-end' version back of yours or admit that this is too much to handle and give people their money back :(

Im really getting disappointed by this all now, please do make some progress here, because there are a lot of paying members here who are patient enough and waiting for sollutions, even though they can't play since the apocalyptic update!
Do not place comments like this, and please be more customer-friendly.

Thanks in advance.

Grez
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
Posted - 2009.03.14 17:37:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Marenubium
Well, mister CCP, then there is something wrong with your 'detection' tool, because I've seen a lot of trouble here the past few days, with vga cards that ACTUALLY DO support SM 2.0.

My guess is, you guys have gone over the head with this apocalyptic update, and there are tooo many issues here to be resolved.
Either get that 'low-end' version back of yours or admit that this is too much to handle and give people their money back :(

Im really getting disappointed by this all now, please do make some progress here, because there are a lot of paying members here who are patient enough and waiting for sollutions, even though they can't play since the apocalyptic update!
Do not place comments like this, and please be more customer-friendly.

Thanks in advance.


Graphics cards state they support it when they don't. Nothing wrong with the game. Only a thousand or so people had below SM2.0

Marenubium
Posted - 2009.03.14 20:53:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Grez
Graphics cards state they support it when they don't. Nothing wrong with the game. Only a thousand or so people had below SM2.0[/quote



1. Ah. So it works with you then?
So it works for everybody?? Good to know!! I guess me, and a lot of people with me, are 'sale tricked' by Ati, Nvidia, and Intel! Lets sue them!

2. You are talking about 'a thousand or so' PAYING customers.
And imo, I think its a little bit more than 'a thousand or so'.
Ah well, wont even go into a discussion, because, it works for you and 'ten-thousand or so' other paying people. So there is no problem at all :)

Grez
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
Posted - 2009.03.14 21:08:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Grez on 14/03/2009 21:14:35
Originally by: Marenubium
Originally by: Grez

Graphics cards state they support it when they don't. Nothing wrong with the game. Only a thousand or so people had below SM2.0


1. Ah. So it works with you then?
So it works for everybody?? Good to know!! I guess me, and a lot of people with me, are 'sale tricked' by Ati, Nvidia, and Intel! Lets sue them!

2. You are talking about 'a thousand or so' PAYING customers.
And imo, I think its a little bit more than 'a thousand or so'.
Ah well, wont even go into a discussion, because, it works for you and 'ten-thousand or so' other paying people. So there is no problem at all :)



1) It works for me, yes, because my card supports SM2.0, and SM3.0. Anyone with a card that fully supports SM2.0, works perfectly fine. Your card, simply does not support SM2.0. For example, the Radeon 9200 has two renditions - it has a SM2.0 compatible brother, and a SM1.0 one. Don't just look at the name of your card and go "OK IT SUPPORTS IT BECAUSE IT HAS THE SAME NAME!". Do research, check the make, model, and manufacturer.

2. Thousands of PAYING customers do not PAY CCP enough to develop an entirely separate game engine. This is what you're failing to understand. The number of customers below a SM2.0 card has fallen below such a low level, that CCP are practically gushing gash out of their ears by developing an entirely separate engine.

CCP created a dev blog stating this fact months and months ago - before Christmas even. Less than a thousand customers have come to the forums asking. Infact, probably less than 500 have come here complaining - that shows you just how far in the minority you are.

It works for me and 290,000 customers. It doesn't work for a MAJOR MINORITY of the player base which do not pay CCP enough in subscriptions to off-set the cost of them creating a separate engine.


Lets do an example of cars, because cars are simple.

Lets say you make a Car, and develop two engines for it. Each engine costs several and maybe hundreds of thousands of pounds in cost to develop. 3 years ago, both engines were being used/purchased identically, meaning it was worth it to spend that much on the two. Skip forward to now, all of a sudden 98% (read the dev blog) of your customers are using one engine, the faster, more efficient one. If only 2% are using it, you're hemoraging money by support, and developing that other engine.

If you want to send CCP perhaps 100,000 a month, half of which is wasted on only 2% of the player base, then be my guest. 98% of the player base would rather that technology be brought forward, and the game progressed.

Again - you are in the EXTREME minority here. The one thread petitioning for the classic client to come back averaged 2 posts per page FOR the petition, whilst the rest were against it. SM1.0 is EIGHT years old. EIGHT! Roughly about the time Pentium THREE's were being built. In terms of computing, that's an age and a half.

It's a case of upgrade, or move on. Computer games are an expensive hobby, MMO's in particular. You can pick up a simple SM2.0 enabled card for about 30, maybe less.

Martin Graeme
Posted - 2009.03.15 12:59:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Grez
Edited by: Grez on 14/03/2009 21:14:35
Again - you are in the EXTREME minority here. The one thread petitioning for the classic client to come back averaged 2 posts per page FOR the petition, whilst the rest were against it. SM1.0 is EIGHT years old. EIGHT! Roughly about the time Pentium THREE's were being built. In terms of computing, that's an age and a half.

It's a case of upgrade, or move on. Computer games are an expensive hobby, MMO's in particular. You can pick up a simple SM2.0 enabled card for about 30, maybe less.


Thank you for your brief, succinct and suckass response. I'm seeing people with recent vintage laptops (less than 3 years old) with this problem. Many of these are alt accounts since the EVE Premium client and now the only client sucks at playing multiple instances on one system.

Your advice about the simple SM2.0 card is great. But you're apparently forgetting that everyone doesn't have that large, spacious tower of yours and might be running hardware that has no PCI-X slots or even expansion slots at all.

That "extreme minority" comes to US$15,000 or more per month at the grossly underestimated number you're spouting. Assuming only 1000, then that's US$180,000 per year in lost revenue.

Based on what I'm reading in the forums and hearing in backchannels, that number is probably 5-10x your figure.

But wait! There's more!

I complained once about the problem, but I have two accounts! Woo Hoo! That's double the number right there! My main machine can handle it without a hiccup, but my second machine (remember the part about EVE Online not running worth a hoot in multiple instances?) crashes every time I get close to an acceleration gate and about 10% of the time within 15 minutes even if an accelleration gate is not involved.

Then there is that most intangible of intangibles. Goodwill. I've stopped sending out buddy invites until CCP gets their act together. When a friend plays a game I suggested, I don't want them to come back to me and tell me it sucks ass. So that's a multiplier that's pretty serious. I've had a minimum of 1 'buddy' per account convert since January.

Yeah, you can do the math!

Marenubium
Posted - 2009.03.15 17:12:00 - [10]
 

Lol :)
Rest my case, Martin :)

And, actually, I DID bought a new graphics card just for EVE purposes only :) With SM4.0.
Lots of people did.
That would solve it, don't you think?
Yeah, thought so, too.
HA but wait! Now there is a SSE support problem!
W00t!
That means, the processors that only support 3DNOW! or MMX, are also out of the picture now.
DO I NEED TO CONTINUE?
How much further is CCP going to push this over the edge?
Lol.

Grez
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
Posted - 2009.03.15 19:11:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Martin Graeme
Thank you for your brief, succinct and suckass response. I'm seeing people with recent vintage laptops (less than 3 years old) with this problem. Many of these are alt accounts since the EVE Premium client and now the only client sucks at playing multiple instances on one system.

Your advice about the simple SM2.0 card is great. But you're apparently forgetting that everyone doesn't have that large, spacious tower of yours and might be running hardware that has no PCI-X slots or even expansion slots at all.

That "extreme minority" comes to US$15,000 or more per month at the grossly underestimated number you're spouting. Assuming only 1000, then that's US$180,000 per year in lost revenue.

Based on what I'm reading in the forums and hearing in backchannels, that number is probably 5-10x your figure.

But wait! There's more!

I complained once about the problem, but I have two accounts! Woo Hoo! That's double the number right there! My main machine can handle it without a hiccup, but my second machine (remember the part about EVE Online not running worth a hoot in multiple instances?) crashes every time I get close to an acceleration gate and about 10% of the time within 15 minutes even if an accelleration gate is not involved.

Then there is that most intangible of intangibles. Goodwill. I've stopped sending out buddy invites until CCP gets their act together. When a friend plays a game I suggested, I don't want them to come back to me and tell me it sucks ass. So that's a multiplier that's pretty serious. I've had a minimum of 1 'buddy' per account convert since January.

Yeah, you can do the math!


Christ, the amount of people with no clue about game development continues to surprise me, and amaze me.

A laptop is not a gaming machine. If you purchased one, then you accept the fact that you chances are you won't be able to upgrade it, and it will be at least 12 months behind desktops.

If you purchased a laptop within the last three years that is not SM2.0 compatible, then HOLY ****, you made a bad purchased. CCP is not responsible for that bad purchase, you are.

And regardless of whether or not they're out $15,000 per month, that's not enough to pay the art and programming department enough to work on TWO game engines. It's no-where NEAR enough in fact. You'd have to have ten times that to warrant your work force to do DOUBLE the work load.

CCP's own numbers tell us that 2% of the players do not have SM2.0 capable machines. Considering their own software RUNS on those machines and can tell what hardware it's running on, I think I know who I'll trust when it comes to those numbers.

I've had 7 buddies sub to the game out of 8 I've invited.

I'm afraid people will have to just get with the times. If you have multiple accounts, it'll still record the hardware running on the clients - it's common sense for companies to do this, so they know what to produce for their clients. In this instance, not enough people were using SM1.0 cards for them to warrant making art and supporting a client to use it.

joodner
Posted - 2009.03.16 05:57:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Marenubium
Lol :)
Rest my case, Martin :)

And, actually, I DID bought a new graphics card just for EVE purposes only :) With SM4.0.
Lots of people did.
That would solve it, don't you think?
Yeah, thought so, too.
HA but wait! Now there is a SSE support problem!
W00t!
That means, the processors that only support 3DNOW! or MMX, are also out of the picture now.
DO I NEED TO CONTINUE?
How much further is CCP going to push this over the edge?
Lol.


Yikes just exactly how old is your machine ?
You do know that PC gaming at its very foundation revolves around upgrades and replacments frequently. Hell PC's are Tax depricated within 3 years in business (and thats only for business spec PC's). Gaming PCs have an average life of what 1-2 years realistcly (look at Steams CPU / GPU Stats).

This is the price that needs to be payed for a luxury hobbie, cheaper alternatives incluse Console's. Wherre the 1 bit of inferior hardware can last up to 5+ years (not counting ring o Death and other hardare failures).

PC's get faster ... Software companys Make things look better....hardware goes slow on new shiney games ...new hardware released that makes it go faster ....software companies make new software that looks better and ...repeat

Eve really has been quite good in its support for seriously outdated hardware.

Marenubium
Posted - 2009.03.16 06:46:00 - [13]
 

Yeah well, i admit things change and ppl have to go with the time.
Also, gaming is an expensive hobby, yes.
Though I like to decide myself whether I buy new stuff or not....
I don't have the money to change my hardware every 1-2 years! I do have a life beyond gaming you know.

I joined EVE january this year, and read about the upcoming apo patch.
According to their system requirements, only my graphics card had to be renewed. Calculated that.
There is possibly another patch coming this winter, for that I needed a new system. Plenty of time for saving money, wouldn't you say?

But there's more to this update than they could have imagined I suppose.
This is not just some update, is a MAJOR update, which works fine now for high-end gamers.
But not everyone is a high-end gamer, and play games all the time.
EVE should have been more careful with their announced system requirements.

So I had to order a new system now, earlier than calculated. For me, maybe, EVE might work.
But I don't know for sure anymore if I want to pay for another period of EVE playing-time...
It's too buggy. And support? Lol...don't even go there.

Madner Kami
Gallente
Durendal Ascending
Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
Posted - 2009.03.16 07:52:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Madner Kami on 16/03/2009 07:54:43
Originally by: Marenubium
I joined EVE january this year, and read about the upcoming apo patch.
According to their system requirements, only my graphics card had to be renewed. Calculated that.

But not everyone is a high-end gamer, and play games all the time.
EVE should have been more careful with their announced system requirements.


Well, your current problem is missing an SSE-compatible CPU? This instruction-set was released in 1999 and can be found on every CPU starting with the Pentium III series, Athlon XP series, C3 series and Efficion series.

Void Helmet
Posted - 2009.03.18 19:50:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Grez
Originally by: Martin Graeme
Thank you for your brief, succinct and suckass response. I'm seeing people with recent vintage laptops (less than 3 years old) with this problem. Many of these are alt accounts since the EVE Premium client and now the only client sucks at playing multiple instances on one system.

Your advice about the simple SM2.0 card is great. But you're apparently forgetting that everyone doesn't have that large, spacious tower of yours and might be running hardware that has no PCI-X slots or even expansion slots at all.

That "extreme minority" comes to US$15,000 or more per month at the grossly underestimated number you're spouting. Assuming only 1000, then that's US$180,000 per year in lost revenue.

Based on what I'm reading in the forums and hearing in backchannels, that number is probably 5-10x your figure.

But wait! There's more!

I complained once about the problem, but I have two accounts! Woo Hoo! That's double the number right there! My main machine can handle it without a hiccup, but my second machine (remember the part about EVE Online not running worth a hoot in multiple instances?) crashes every time I get close to an acceleration gate and about 10% of the time within 15 minutes even if an accelleration gate is not involved.

Then there is that most intangible of intangibles. Goodwill. I've stopped sending out buddy invites until CCP gets their act together. When a friend plays a game I suggested, I don't want them to come back to me and tell me it sucks ass. So that's a multiplier that's pretty serious. I've had a minimum of 1 'buddy' per account convert since January.

Yeah, you can do the math!


Christ, the amount of people with no clue about game development continues to surprise me, and amaze me.

A laptop is not a gaming machine. If you purchased one, then you accept the fact that you chances are you won't be able to upgrade it, and it will be at least 12 months behind desktops.

If you purchased a laptop within the last three years that is not SM2.0 compatible, then HOLY ****, you made a bad purchased. CCP is not responsible for that bad purchase, you are.

And regardless of whether or not they're out $15,000 per month, that's not enough to pay the art and programming department enough to work on TWO game engines. It's no-where NEAR enough in fact. You'd have to have ten times that to warrant your work force to do DOUBLE the work load.

CCP's own numbers tell us that 2% of the players do not have SM2.0 capable machines. Considering their own software RUNS on those machines and can tell what hardware it's running on, I think I know who I'll trust when it comes to those numbers.

I've had 7 buddies sub to the game out of 8 I've invited.

I'm afraid people will have to just get with the times. If you have multiple accounts, it'll still record the hardware running on the clients - it's common sense for companies to do this, so they know what to produce for their clients. In this instance, not enough people were using SM1.0 cards for them to warrant making art and supporting a client to use it.


Well, I've started playing eve since release and went through 3 computers during a 10 year duration. The POINT YOU ARE MISSING is that with the amount of money we pay a month for a service, the service rendered shouldn't suddenly stop working on the medium of purchase for that service. In other words, I payed 9.95 to be reinvited to a game that is now broken, I cannot even warp. Here is my 9.95 CCP, now where is my classic version. Some of us spend our money wisely, and don't have money to spend on a new computer because of a game that worked perfectly has been upgraded and we already invested enough money to buy 10 new computers at CCP's expense. You are arrogant and disconnected from society Grez. You have obviously never lived check to check. We pay for a service that worked on our old school technology, now we deserve a refund, or a new machine.

Void Helmet
Posted - 2009.03.18 19:59:00 - [16]
 

You do not need to be a game developer in order to know you are being screwed. As I said, I just paid 9.95 for a service that is broken, my comp meets minimum requirements but I can't warp! I come and go every few months in eve, but I will not buy a new machine in order to please a software company. I invested well enough money in eve to where my classic version should be working with no hooks. No more money for you CCP. Send us a card that is compatible with your expansion, I always enjoyed the graphics for what they were, now I have to invest in a new machine to keep up with technology just to play eve? No thank you, eve was a good game, but corporate greed has ruined what was once a very smooth space game. Thanks for taking my 9.95, it will be the last. So many free games out now, pointless to pay for this crap. Maybe in a couple years I will invest in a new machine, but mine works just fine on most games. Thanks for the knife in the back CCP.

Miniturret
Amarr
Fomus-Amarr Industrial
Posted - 2009.03.19 00:16:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
There is just one client now. It automatically detects your hardware's capabilities and runs in either Shader Model 3 mode (this is the same as the former Premium version) or Shader Model 2 mode (this mode is what was referred to as "Premium Lite" during development). If your computer does not support at minimum Shader Model 2 then you need to upgrade.


ok I resigned myself to upgrading my backup computer to meet specs even though all the makes and models of my current card state it supports SM2.0 I've updated drivers and everything else, I'm going out and spending another 60 bucks to make sure i can continue to play eve until my main system is up and running again.

What has me ****ed about your comment is that had I used that tone with any of my customers I would have my ass fired within the hour of saying it.

Next time pick your wording carefully because one of the fun things I've learned in marketing is the power of 10. for every unhappy customer you can expect them to tell 10 people about their unhappy/bad customer experience. Where as for good comments you can only rely on the power of 3. same concept only they tell 3 people instead of 10. and you can beat your sweet ass anyone asks me about eve i'll fully explain that the game in and of itself is decent but the customer service/care sucks major ****ing donkey balls.

joodner
Posted - 2009.03.19 01:14:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: joodner on 19/03/2009 01:18:06
Well, its obvious that your business does not provide IT service’s / applications. If you were in that line of business you would often face the dramas of determining what hardware and application version support you will have for you product. E.g. You’re new CRM release may only be XP or Vista compatible with office 2007. There are many many factors involved in this decision making, and ultimately it results in, if the client wants your new release with new functionality they may then be forced to upgrade.

IT delivery solutions and development is not really like a lot of other business.

However in any business there is something that remains the same….(and yes you should know this quite well)

COST / BENEFIT ANALYSIS

Low end hardware or Pre-sm2 workstations are in a MINORITY …smallest Percentile group (Don’t believe me ... look up Steams public GPU/CPU stats (*note only using steam reference as there stats are public)

The associated cost in running parallel development for new models and old models WAS NOT WORTH the TIME and COST to continue. By cutting out the old hardware support, it also allows for FASTER expansions and new content (Only 1 lot of models / QA etc).

The only way to still provide such support would be to increase the subscription base cost, and given that old hardware is in the lowest percentile base, it would need to be added onto all subscriptions, not just those with old hardware (as there would not be enough subscribers with old tech to cover the additional costs with developing legacy models / testing etc).

Again, PC gaming IS a luxury hobby, AND TECHNOLOGY CHANGES VERY VERY FAST, and UPGRADES are part and parcel of PLAYING PC GAMES.
Cheaper alternatives include Console's. Where the one bit of inferior hardware can last up to 5+ years (not counting ring o Death and other hardware failures).

As for Void Helmet, please explain the different between being in business (you know the OLNY reason for companies being in BUSINESS right ? and corporate greed ?), also please show me where I can play a game like EVE for free, or any other free games that are equivalent to AAA releases ? Oh and you deserve nothing for paying for a luxury hobby over the years. If your living Paycheck to Paycheck, I suggest you re-evaluate your priorities.

Cinditje
Caldari
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2009.03.20 18:08:00 - [19]
 

Well i wish i could take my computer with me when i am working abroad. But unfortunatly my work wont get me a DELL XPS laptop for my work..:0 it would be nice but unfortunatly not.

I am stuck with a new Dell D630 from my work and EVE runs with minimal settings but it totaly lags out when there are more than 30 - 40 objects in the area.

Well i guess i will just have to do station trading when working abroad.

oohms88
Posted - 2009.03.21 00:44:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: oohms88 on 21/03/2009 01:05:10
There is a HUGE difference between "SM2.0 compatible" and "Playable on the premium client (even in Lite mode)"

I would say that about 50% of NEW laptops come with intel onboard graphics, which basically cannot play eve well.

If you are playing an MMO, the very nature of the game type & the players it attracts means that there will be a lot of people with crappy hardware, and laptops. This is why WoW is so successful, because you can run it on ALL new laptops (even an EEE pc)


 

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