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blankseplocked Scanning: If it aint broke, don't fix it!!
 
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Sirion Fujiwara
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:37:00 - [1]
 

Scanning was nice and easy before Apocrypha - as it should be. It is hardly the core of the game, more like an add-on feature for the core of the game (which is blowing stuff up).
The old system worked perfectly and logically, but now it seems things have been over complicated for no reason at all.
Why do I need to sit there and fiddle around with four probes (TRI-angulation???) for half an hour to find one measly ship!? Endlessly adjusting and re-adjusting probe positions and ranges whilst trying to guess where the hell the ship is in the 'red sphere thingy' is tedious beyond anything CCP has yet come up with. Why make it tedious when it could be made fun!??? Shocked
It's a bit like mining really. Could have been made fun, but actually it is just a boring pain in the arse.
Sometimes you have to wonder why CCP even wastes time developing new stuff when they are just making things worse and less enjoyable. Evil or Very Mad

FOl2TY8
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:42:00 - [2]
 

Actually you are completely wrong. Before scanning was like mining, train skills drop probes wait, rinse repeat. Now the more skilled you are at positioning your probes the faster the results.



Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
Mordus Angels
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:45:00 - [3]
 

No, there are two extremes in this ..

I kind of like some of the features .. ability to reuse, reconnect and move probes.
The new system has some nice things, BUT I do think they've pegged it down too many notches. I feel like my skills are for nought, and I don't like the fact they've completely removed the chance-based component.

It was the chance base-component that separated the men from the boys, so-to-speak.

Sirion Fujiwara
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:45:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: FOl2TY8
Actually you are completely wrong. Before scanning was like mining, train skills drop probes wait, rinse repeat. Now the more skilled you are at positioning your probes the faster the results.






Come on... Positioning and re-positiong probes is DULL beyond belief. Considering the complexity in the rest of the game, this is just completely ridiculous as a 'trade' or vocation.

Bullageddon
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:48:00 - [5]
 

My char spent 15mins training up astro and astro tri to lv1 last night.

I have never used probes before.

It took me 15mins to figure out the system and scan down my first wormhole.

Why is this so difficult for people?


I do agree with OP on the reason for needing 4 probes. Ridiculous, you only need one for proper triangulation, just like current sonar/radar. However, that would make it far too easy.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:48:00 - [6]
 

They didn't fix it. They improved it. Of course progressive thinking and invention might be foreign concepts to your mind, so can't blame you for being unable to grasp those concepts.

fairimear
Gallente
The Sp00Ks
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:49:00 - [7]
 

FOOORRRRROKIN LOVE SCANNING NOW.
I can scan Absolutely anything down in under 3min. It's freaking great.
LOVE CCP for this. It's the best damn feature of the patch

Estel Arador
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:50:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
Why do I need to sit there and fiddle around with four probes (TRI-angulation???)

Note that current-day GPS systems also need data from at least four satellites to get an accurate position. The fourth one is used to eliminate errors in the data from the first three.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:51:00 - [9]
 

Personally, I feel that this new system is far superior to the old one. Come on, a random chance with long wait times in between? That sucked. It was horribly dull. Not to mention, I can track down a signal in far less time now. Granted I haven't tried scanning out ships yet, so that may be a different situation.

I think that the fact that you need a bit of player skill now to keep the fiddling down to a minimum is a good mechanic. I feel more involved in the process now, and thus it's more fun for me.

Vasta Magna
Yarex Shipyards
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:51:00 - [10]
 

Couldn't disagree more with OP.

Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
Mordus Angels
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:52:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: fairimear
FOOORRRRROKIN LOVE SCANNING NOW.
I can scan Absolutely anything down in under 3min. It's freaking great.
LOVE CCP for this. It's the best damn feature of the patch


I think this is the point exactly. Astrometrics was something people use to be committed to.

I once spent 90 minutes scanning down a site that rendered 148 data cores (over 100M in loot). It was that investment of time that kept people away / just as it kept people committed.

But by dumbing down astrometrics for the attention-deficit crowd, it hasn't gotten richer - its gotten poorer.

I agree some improvements have been made, but I regret CCP felt the need to target the lowest-common denominator to do it.

Capt Happhypants
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:54:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
Scanning was nice and easy before Apocrypha - as it should be. It is hardly the core of the game, more like an add-on feature for the core of the game (which is blowing stuff up).
The old system worked perfectly and logically, but now it seems things have been over complicated for no reason at all.
Why do I need to sit there and fiddle around with four probes (TRI-angulation???) for half an hour to find one measly ship!? Endlessly adjusting and re-adjusting probe positions and ranges whilst trying to guess where the hell the ship is in the 'red sphere thingy' is tedious beyond anything CCP has yet come up with. Why make it tedious when it could be made fun!??? Shocked
It's a bit like mining really. Could have been made fun, but actually it is just a boring pain in the arse.
Sometimes you have to wonder why CCP even wastes time developing new stuff when they are just making things worse and less enjoyable. Evil or Very Mad


If it takes you more than 3 to 5 minutes to scan down a ship in a system then it isn't the new scanning that is the problem. Finding a worm hole is harder IMHO but still isn't difficult.

Ginako
The Praxis Initiative
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:54:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara

Why do I need to sit there and fiddle around with four probes (TRI-angulation???)


Yeah because a triangle can't possible contain four sides
*cough* pyramids *cough* Rolling Eyes

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:55:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Bullageddon
I do agree with OP on the reason for needing 4 probes. Ridiculous, you only need one for proper triangulation, just like current sonar/radar. However, that would make it far too easy.


Really?

This has been covered in a number of posts. The four probes is scientifically accurate. You *can* pin a system down with only 3, but you have to work harder at it.

Remember, 'triangulation' is what GPS systems work on Earth. When you can guesstimate one of the variables (i.e. GPS, you can make a solid guess that the user will be on the ground, thus taking out the NEED for a fourth signal), it's okay to use three. But even modern GPS usually uses four or five signals.

Sonar, obviously, wouldn't work in space, because sound doesn't travel through vacuum.

Morlar
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:56:00 - [15]
 

Time spent in training the skills will still help...you'll have fewer deviation errors, for instance. It's a nice balance of character skill/player skill now.

Chatte Noire
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:56:00 - [16]
 

Scanning out wormholes and exploration sites is extremely easy now. But that is because they´re persistent
locations, not moving an inch.

Ship scanning is horrible, horrible (horrible). If you want to scan more mobile targets than missionrunners,
be prepared to spent a lot of boring time staring at blue spheres, adjusting your probes again and again.

Sirion Fujiwara
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:57:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
They didn't fix it. They improved it. Of course progressive thinking and invention might be foreign concepts to your mind, so can't blame you for being unable to grasp those concepts.


Lolz. Top marks for pointless rudeness :o)
This isn't about whether it is simple or easy. It is about whether it is fun or not, and this 'progressive thinking' has in my opinion made it a lot less fun. That however... is simple.... Laughing

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:57:00 - [18]
 

They should have called it tetra-angulation. Best probe pattern for me has been a tetrahedron shape.

Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group
Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.13 17:00:00 - [19]
 

As a long time prober -- initially I was angry over the new probe system. Initially the sight of 100's of probers passing through would crash the prices of faction and radar/magneto items and there would be way to much competition for the sites. Then I realized I could probe a radar/magneto site in under 6 minutes -- compared to the 20-30 mins it took before.

Now I've found that there are still plenty of the traditional radar/magneto sites and my sites/hr have increased amazingly. I'm still a little worried about market saturation crashing the prices tho Neutral

NeoTheo
M'8'S
Posted - 2009.03.13 17:00:00 - [20]
 

scanning before was TOTALLY DULL, now at least i have to do something.

ship scanning maybe is nerfed in to oblivion tho.

Dmian
Gallente
Gallenterrorisme
Posted - 2009.03.13 17:03:00 - [21]
 

I like the new system better.

Sirion Fujiwara
Posted - 2009.03.13 17:05:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: NeoTheo
scanning before was TOTALLY DULL, now at least i have to do something.

ship scanning maybe is nerfed in to oblivion tho.


Ship scanning is exactly what I am talking about.

Marcus Xavier
Minmatar
Xavier Institute for Higher Learning
Posted - 2009.03.13 17:06:00 - [23]
 

By belly-aching, You've only confirmed that the prior system was far too easy when scanning for ships. I could find a Domi in deadspace within a few minutes using a covert ops and a deep space probe. I applaud CCP for forcing you to work for your dinner.

Ginako
The Praxis Initiative
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.03.13 17:07:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
Originally by: NeoTheo
scanning before was TOTALLY DULL, now at least i have to do something.

ship scanning maybe is nerfed in to oblivion tho.


Ship scanning is exactly what I am talking about.


You should have specified that earlier. Would've saved you lots of fire & pitchfork replies. Wink

Sirion Fujiwara
Posted - 2009.03.13 17:08:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Sirion Fujiwara on 13/03/2009 17:09:19
Originally by: Ginako
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
Originally by: NeoTheo
scanning before was TOTALLY DULL, now at least i have to do something.

ship scanning maybe is nerfed in to oblivion tho.


Ship scanning is exactly what I am talking about.


You should have specified that earlier. Would've saved you lots of fire & pitchfork replies. Wink


I actually mentioned that I was scanning for a ship in the initial post, but true to form, EVE forum readers never read the posts properly Shocked

Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2009.03.13 17:08:00 - [26]
 

op obvisouly hasnt scaned a day in his life beofre new scanning effects... the 4 hour wasiting because of luck and those STUPID mid warp bookmarks than needed to be right


op can just STFU until he knows what he is talking about

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2009.03.13 17:09:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Ginako
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
Originally by: NeoTheo
scanning before was TOTALLY DULL, now at least i have to do something.

ship scanning maybe is nerfed in to oblivion tho.


Ship scanning is exactly what I am talking about.


You should have specified that earlier. Would've saved you lots of fire & pitchfork replies. Wink


Definitely. You can modify the mechanics for ship scanning, without completely busting the good scanning system they have now.

I can understand players who dislike change and admit it. I will continue to heckle players who try to mask their dislike for change with arguments of 'ease' or 'superiority'.

War Fairy
Posted - 2009.03.13 17:09:00 - [28]
 

The old system was a brainless slot machine. Pure chance based. Pull the lever and see if you got a hit. Nope? Pull the lever again. Nothing I did increased the chances. I'd play my DS while I scanned. That's the sign of a broken design.

The new system is more art. It takes player skill strongly into account. If you know what you're doing it's vastly quicker than the old system. it's more fun and interactive.

Thank you CCP for the scanning changes! Thank you very very much!

R0ot
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.03.13 17:10:00 - [29]
 

Oh noes probing might actually take a bit of effort now /o\ Rolling Eyes

Sirion Fujiwara
Posted - 2009.03.13 17:11:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Armoured C
op obvisouly hasnt scaned a day in his life beofre new scanning effects... the 4 hour wasiting because of luck and those STUPID mid warp bookmarks than needed to be right


op can just STFU until he knows what he is talking about



Lol!! What an angry little boy you are. I guess you have your reasons... Laughing


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