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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
Posted - 2009.03.12 11:52:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Celeste Coeval on 12/03/2009 11:57:06
Originally by: Akita T
Hello and welcome to "I told you so".


Akita's egotastical personal name for the eve-o forums...but wait just because you ignore those that disagree with you doesn't make you right.

You seek a perfect system where none exist Akita T. Look at the real world around you...it's chaos...where one man can spend more than 5 generations of what one family can earn on a painting. Please be quiet for a while.

Una D
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2009.03.12 11:55:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Irongut
Isk is not your only reward. Have you considered that exploring W-space and fighting targets that pose more of a challenge might be more fun? It is a game after all.



Yeah sure, like ... factional warfare?

And look how many people participate there. 15.000, out of how many, 250.000? That is 6% Surprised


There is quite a lot to do in EVE. You should compare it to the amount of other PvP going on and how many choices for that there are. You can't expect a single non isk making feature to be used by 50% of all the players.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.03.12 11:58:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Deira Lenia
So your saying that CCP controls the supply and demand?

That's precisely what I'm saying.

Quote:
Seeing CCP controls how much of A and B is needed to build C, they suddenly control the prices aswell?

Yes. They control the EQUILIBRIUM price.

Quote:
No, the prices are set by players.

When a large amount of players behave to the best of their own interest, the EQUILIBRIUM PRICE is reached.
That's as good as having no say-so on the matter to begin with.

Quote:
Its called supply and demand, and you can manipulate it aswell.

If you're CCP, you can.
If you're a player, you MIGHT control it a little bit, make a few waves, maybe turn a profit.
But you can't single-handedly move the equilibrium price away from where it should be for too long.
That's something only CCP can do.

Quote:
CCP might control how much of A and B is needed to make C. but they defenatly dont set any prices in any way. You could say they control demand, but thats about it.

Yeah, sure, they don't ACTUALLY set the price, they just tweak the rules so the price changes due to everybody trying to do their best within those new rules.
So, in your eyes, they have absolutely NOTHING to do with prices Rolling Eyes
How the hell can anybody be so clueless ?


Let me give you an analogy.
You have a pot, on the fire, in your kitchen, outside is freezing, your windows are closed, inside it's nice and hot, the flame is set really low.
Oh, my, would you look at that, the water is almost boiling, but it's just not quite there yet, it's hovering just below boiling point.
I mean, sure, YOU are not doing anything, it's the atoms in the water that exchange heat between themselves, the pot, and the room, YOU aren't setting the temperature or anything !
Now, you open the window, it's getting freezing in the room.
Wow, would you look at that, the water molecules in the pot suddendly decided they don't want to be at a such high temperature, the water's getting colder ! My, my, and you had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it !
Now, you turn up the gas, the flame is strong, the water's starting to boil.
Again, you did absolutely nothing ! The atoms simply decided it's time to get down and dirty and raise the temperature all by themselves !

So, yeah, CCP doesn't set the prices, just like you don't decide what temperature the water in the pot will have.
I mean, it's totally out of your control, just like prices of ingame items are for CCP.
Oh, wait...

OMGJITA
Posted - 2009.03.12 11:58:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Hobgoblin ll
Originally by: Lymitz
You deserve to have posting rights removed from you account.

I'm only predicting the inevitable. Anyone who has a clue on this topic will realise that i'm right. The future will show this aswell.



dude, here is how afree market works.

prices will change dependant demand, right now the demand is not so good as patch has been out like 3 days.

wait till t3 production starts, no sleepers no t3, there will be a market. if you think any otherwise, your ******ed.

Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
Posted - 2009.03.12 12:00:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Celeste Coeval on 12/03/2009 12:00:26
Originally by: Akita T
lots of Akita related stuff



Do you go outside much? Also you CAPS the funniest WORDS in your sentence STRUCTURE.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.03.12 12:02:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 12/03/2009 12:02:05
Originally by: Celeste Coeval
Originally by: Akita T
Hello and welcome to "I told you so".

Akita's egotastical personal name for the eve-o forums...but wait just because you ignore those that disagree with you doesn't make you right.

I guess taking their points, deconstructing them and shoving them back where they belong means "I ignore them" ?

Quote:
You seek a perfect system where none exist Akita T. Look at the real world around you...it's chaos...where one man can spend more than 5 generations of what one family can earn on a painting. Please be quiet for a while.

And your point is what exactly ?

Originally by: Celeste Coeval
Do you go outside much?

No.

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2009.03.12 12:04:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Celeste Coeval
Edited by: Celeste Coeval on 12/03/2009 12:00:26
Originally by: Akita T
lots of Akita related stuff



Do you go outside much? Also you CAPS the funniest WORDS in your sentence STRUCTURE.


So what have you contributed lately? Most of the time Akita's posts make perfect sense, if you don't like that don't shoot the messenger but hate the message.

Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
Posted - 2009.03.12 12:07:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Celeste Coeval
Originally by: Akita T
Hello and welcome to "I told you so".

Akita's egotastical personal name for the eve-o forums...but wait just because you ignore those that disagree with you doesn't make you right.

I guess taking their points, deconstructing them and shoving them back where they belong means "I ignore them" ?

Quote:
You seek a perfect system where none exist Akita T. Look at the real world around you...it's chaos...where one man can spend more than 5 generations of what one family can earn on a painting. Please be quiet for a while.

And your point is what exactly ?



That is my point. You want eve to function like ...well..what? Like the real world economy..? That is just as borked as the eve economy. You know some people want to fly tech3, why because they can and will, the same reason people fly other ships that people say aren't worth the isk. Technically a mothership isnt worth flying...yet people still do. Opulence doesn't need a reason or logic, it stands for status. Don't like sleepers? forget they exist then. Ignorance is real easy to do, I'll show you how by not responding to you again in this threadRazz

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2009.03.12 12:10:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Deira Lenia
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: An Sar
Also my understanding is CCP does not set "rewards" the worth of loot and salvage is determined by market demand, so how can the OP lay it all on CCP? Rolling Eyes

I feel like smacking you in the head.
The market DEMAND is influenced by CCP, by setting the capabilities of the items.
The market SUPPLY is influenced by CCP, by setting build amounts of materials needed and drop rates of resources.
Explain to me again now how CCP DOESN'T actually set at least some rough prices, but use LOGIC next time.


You post too much to smack other people around Akita.

CCP indeed set the capabilitys and the amounts of it you need to produce something.

We (the players) make sure there is enough on the market.
We (the players) make sure their ****ing expencive so we get rich.

CCP does absolutly nothing to control the price, players do.

You explain me how CCP makes me adjust my sell order? Apart from that they design the item and its droprate. CCP has nothing to do with how the item ends up on the market and for how much it is sold.
Therefor, your logic failed.


Drop rates have nothing to do with how much of the item ends up on the market? Shocked Are you daft? If there is one Veldspar asteroid in the game, the supply of Veld goes down, price goes up - CCP sets drop rates, therefore, CCP influences prices by controlling the entire supply...

AK

FeltchinLube
Posted - 2009.03.12 12:13:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: FeltchinLube on 12/03/2009 12:15:05
found WH in 0.5 space went in done the sites salvage loot etc, cam out after 2hours messing arround, sold on contract to a guy wanting it for 400mil, more than i would of made runing my lvl4 agent for same time. plus it wasnt boring like my lvl4 agent.

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2009.03.12 12:14:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Tzar''rim on 12/03/2009 12:15:13
supply/demand + effort=value

change the supply, demand or the effort needed to get the item and you change the worth (and thus cost) of that item. People not understanding that should be so ashamed of themselves that they stop posting and go back to highschool.

Deira Lenia
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.03.12 12:18:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Deira Lenia
So your saying that CCP controls the supply and demand?

That's precisely what I'm saying.

Quote:
Seeing CCP controls how much of A and B is needed to build C, they suddenly control the prices aswell?

Yes. They control the EQUILIBRIUM price.

Quote:
No, the prices are set by players.

When a large amount of players behave to the best of their own interest, the EQUILIBRIUM PRICE is reached.
That's as good as having no say-so on the matter to begin with.

Quote:
Its called supply and demand, and you can manipulate it aswell.

If you're CCP, you can.
If you're a player, you MIGHT control it a little bit, make a few waves, maybe turn a profit.
But you can't single-handedly move the equilibrium price away from where it should be for too long.
That's something only CCP can do.

Quote:
CCP might control how much of A and B is needed to make C. but they defenatly dont set any prices in any way. You could say they control demand, but thats about it.

Yeah, sure, they don't ACTUALLY set the price, they just tweak the rules so the price changes due to everybody trying to do their best within those new rules.
So, in your eyes, they have absolutely NOTHING to do with prices Rolling Eyes
How the hell can anybody be so clueless ?


Let me give you an analogy.
You have a pot, on the fire, in your kitchen, outside is freezing, your windows are closed, inside it's nice and hot, the flame is set really low.
Oh, my, would you look at that, the water is almost boiling, but it's just not quite there yet, it's hovering just below boiling point.
I mean, sure, YOU are not doing anything, it's the atoms in the water that exchange heat between themselves, the pot, and the room, YOU aren't setting the temperature or anything !
Now, you open the window, it's getting freezing in the room.
Wow, would you look at that, the water molecules in the pot suddendly decided they don't want to be at a such high temperature, the water's getting colder ! My, my, and you had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it !
Now, you turn up the gas, the flame is strong, the water's starting to boil.
Again, you did absolutely nothing ! The atoms simply decided it's time to get down and dirty and raise the temperature all by themselves !

So, yeah, CCP doesn't set the prices, just like you don't decide what temperature the water in the pot will have.
I mean, it's totally out of your control, just like prices of ingame items are for CCP.
Oh, wait...



That pot thing is a completely unlogical and unapplyable example, unless your saying that CCP controls the window handle and the gas outlet.

Also EQUILIBRIUM is a wierdo word for "state of balance" according to This online dictionary

If i have to beleve you. CCP controls supply and demand and therefor the price. We (the players) are just the peons that put the formula in motion.

In this fairly logical explanation (i must say, it sounds logical) there is a flaw.

Since when does things have a base price? And if so, how is it applied?

As how it is/should be. The price of A and B make the price of C + profit.
Not the price of C makes the price of A and B. Which is what your saying.





Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.03.12 12:22:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Celeste Coeval
That is my point. You want eve to function like ...well..what? Like the real world economy..? That is just as borked as the eve economy. You know some people want to fly tech3, why because they can and will, the same reason people fly other ships that people say aren't worth the isk. Technically a mothership isnt worth flying...yet people still do. Opulence doesn't need a reason or logic, it stands for status. Don't like sleepers? forget they exist then. Ignorance is real easy to do, I'll show you how by not responding to you again in this threadRazz


No, I want CCP to get their act together and THINK when they put stuff in.
I want them to DECIDE how much they WANT stuff to cost and just how high the reward of harvesting the needed components/materials/salvage should be, then CALCULATE how high the drop rates should be and how much materials should be needed to achieve those prices and income levels.
And why do I want them to do that ?
Because they never get it even remotely right in the first try, they always "pre-nerf" stuff sometimes even by orders of magnitude, and take far too long to tweak it afterwards.

When CCP says they want T3 cruisers to be somewhere in the same price range of T2 cruisers, maybe slightly higher, I don't expect that to mean 500 mil to 2 bil ISK.
And when they also say they want wormhole space to be really dangerous and/or require loads of teamwork, I expect the average rewards you will get there to be HIGHER than the rewards you can reap solo in highsec.

So... got an idea of what I want now ?

Psiri
Posted - 2009.03.12 12:31:00 - [74]
 

Just nerf high sec lvl IV missions already. That's why lowsec has been empty of anything but noobs and pirates and that's why w-space likely won't be worth the effort.

That being said, moons are still where the big bucks are at, however that's a game that only the big boys are allowed to play. Personally I'd rather see moons yielding nothing but large ammounts of trit and special minerals that are only used for capital ship components. That way trit prices would drop, making empire mining less profitable (effectively nerfing macro miners aswell). As for dysprosium I'd rather just see belts in 0.0 and w-space yield it, that way people would actually be mining something but ice in null. It'd be nice to see people outside of their stations and POS's for once.

The idea of wormholes is great, but unless it's cared for properly it'll go the same way as faction warfare.

Foulque
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.03.12 12:32:00 - [75]
 

"I make XX Million/hr dual screning missions in Motsu, why should I do anything else?"

There's much more to the game than isk/hr. Amazingly there's actually a fun game in there somewhere, who'd have thought?Wink

Clurk Brodon
Yog-Sothoth Heavy Industries
Posted - 2009.03.12 12:38:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: KhaniKirai
the socalled "faction drones" in the drone regions.

Lol, good point. This stuff is so full of fail that I actually forgot it even exists! Great example: it has an even worse balance than "combat boosters" (they just got their second boost... but who cares?), factional warfare or Level 5 missions.

CCP is afraid of unbalancing Eve, so their new content propose only non-isk rewards (faction tags, drone parts, sleeper salvage...).

Market value of those rewards depends of the effectiveness of the end product, but they decided that new stuff can't be better than the existing stuff, so we're stuck with T2 HACs and Faction BS as the effective ceiling of combat power (Black Ops T2 BS, anyone?).

Since the end product won't be really better than standard T2 product, price can't rise too high. It means the salvage parts price is effectively capped.

Then, maybe a player can gather so many parts that he ends up making a lot of ISK anyway? Nope, because CCP decided that this new content has to come with much higher risks: Level 5 missions are in Low Sec, sleeper parts are in W-Space...

If you consider the time lost hunting for wormholes; ships lost against Sleeper AI; PvP risk; the need to split the non-isk rewards between the surviving members of a W-Space expedition; the complexity of the T3 industrial process, meaning a highly inefficient market; T3 cruisers would have to be solopwnmobile to justify the man-hour cost. And that they can't be.

Therefore, the non-isk rewards will suck (as usual).

When people realise that W-Space is worthless as ISK-maker, compared to highly farmable Level 4, or just plain AFK veldspar mining, they'll stop exploring. Just like nobody cares anymore about hisec gravimetric sites (wow, JASPET!), or arch/sal (yeah, some charred micro-circuits and lorentz fluid! several THOUSAND isk per hour!).

Starting with T3 cruisers was a mistake, T3 modules would have been a better idea. Much easier to balance cost/effectiveness, shorter production chain, affordable prices and therefore more interested customers (could be used both for PvP and PvE!), possibility to add new module effects without obsoleting T2 and faction modules...

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2009.03.12 12:40:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Tzar''rim on 12/03/2009 12:48:14
Originally by: Deira Lenia
I still don't get it


Ok, let me explain it to you, a certain item (doesn't matter what it is) is required for the manufacturing of a T2 ship. Here's a few ways CCP can influence the price of that ship.

- change the mineral/materials needed for that item, this is a direct change which will influence the cost of that item directly
- change the respawn location/amount of minerals needed for that item. This changes the supply and effort needed to get the minerals, which in turn will influence the price of items which use these minerals
- introduce more items that make use of the same minerals, this changes demand as there's more items that now require those minerals so the prices for that will go up
- introduce more ships that make use of the same item, so the demand goes up which affects price on that item
- change methods of transport; if it gets easier or more difficult to move the minerals that will influence the price (see carrier changes)
-change the ship stats, they make it better/worse, this will directly influence the demand of the needed item but also indirectly influence it AGAIN as the demand for minerals changes due to production changes

The worth of a product is based on the supply amount, the effort it takes to produce it (this includes transportation, security) and the net use for that item (demand).

If a ship gets better people want it more meaning the producers can ask more for that ship, it also means it'll get made more which means there's more demand for minerals which drives up the price for those, which in turn affects building cost for that ship, which means the producers up the price again.


Therefore, CCP controls the supply, effort needed and demand of any item in game. I'd say that means they actually control prices Very Happy


Midge Mo'yb
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.03.12 12:45:00 - [78]
 

why do level 4 missiosn have to be the beall end all of eve?

i have more fun doing wormhole exploration than level 4's.... nuff said tbfh

Delkin
Amarr
Posted - 2009.03.12 12:45:00 - [79]
 



Sorry Deira Lenia ccp do control the price of everything one way or another, Akita T has and others pointed out in other threads, everything in game from insurance to alloy composition in controlled by ccp they seed xx moons they add or change things as and when they feel.

You may well sell at lower prices but you are making a loss, you can sell at higher prices and your order expire unsold.

CCP removed shuttles and released the cap on trit but they still effect other minerals as the trit goes up others drop, the whole market is controlled by overseer ccp.


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.03.12 12:46:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Deira Lenia
That pot thing is a completely unlogical and unapplyable example, unless your saying that CCP controls the window handle and the gas outlet.

The gas outlet / window handle duo is a very simplified analogy for the control system CCP has in place for prices.

Quote:
If i have to beleve you. CCP controls supply and demand and therefor the price. We (the players) are just the peons that put the formula in motion.
In this fairly logical explanation (i must say, it sounds logical) [...]

You don't have to believe me, you just have to get all the facts and eventually reach the same conclusion.

Quote:
there is a flaw. Since when does things have a base price? And if so, how is it applied?

Let's start with something simple, like, say, T1 stuff. T1 stuff comes from minerals, so discussing T1 is like discussing mineral prices and vice-versa.
THIS HERE is a really old thread of mine (slightly over 2 years old) which eventually ended up discussing exactly that.
For the long version, read that. Here's the really, really short version...

It doesn't really matter where each of the individual minerals come from and what they're used in, as long as you CAN have perfect recycling and perfect build, you can always get a "basket" of them for the "market price", which is, not at all surprisingly, at least 70% of the BASE basket price no matter what. That base basket price is determined by ship "insurance scams". Sell any ship below 70%, it will be bought up instantly, insured, and blown up for profit. After you take into account various costs and the momentary scarcity of minerals, you end up with the "basket" of minerals hovering between 75% and 90% of the base price.
And minerals are the only thing that really needs a "bottom", since there's such a glut of minerals coming into the game from just about everything... not even a HALF of the minerals in the game come from mining !
Since we have such an over-abundance of minerals, it means the largest drawback in manufacture will be the hardest (more expensive) to move and get of all of them, which in this case is Tritanium. Tritanium is the bottleneck material for all T1 (and cap ship) manufacture, and the fact it's so far above its base price in hubs but close to its base price in remote locations shows just how wacky all of this has ended up as being.

For T2, you are never in danger of reaching the base price, but T2 stuff has base prices too !
And they're determined in a similar manner to T1 prices.
The good news (or the bad news) is that supply of "T2 stuff" is severely below demand, due to the bottleneck material, in this case Dysprosium. You just need to look at how much Dysprosium costs compared to other things to see where this is going.
But even if they'd have NPCs sell Dysprosium (and everything else) at the base price (which would be nearly a THOUSAND times lower than the price it's being traded at right now), you'd still reach another bottleneck, that being invention, in the form of datacores, so not even then you won't have undervalued T2 stuff (compared to T2 base price).
And even if NPCs also would sell datacores for 0.01 ISK a piece, you STILL wouldn't get T2 prices down to base, since there would be ice products involved in operating the POSes needed to support the required copy/invent process... and so on and so forth.

Quote:
As how it is/should be. The price of A and B make the price of C + profit.
Not the price of C makes the price of A and B. Which is what your saying.

Nope, that's not what I was saying.
I'm saying that that A+B+profit=C, and that CCP sets A and B, players set their own acceptable profit, and hence CCP also sets most of the price of C too.

H Lecter
Gallente
The Black Rabbits Academy
The Gurlstas Associates
Posted - 2009.03.12 13:11:00 - [81]
 

Oh yes, Eve is dying.Rolling Eyes

Apocrypha is a total failure and everyone enjoying it is an absolute fool!

I wish CCP "failed" as much with every update they bring...

Cry some more while mindlessly shooting lvl 4 spawns - I know how frustrating it is, therefore I stopped running after ISK for the sake of earning more ISK Wink

Deira Lenia
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.03.12 13:28:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Akita T

Nope, that's not what I was saying.
I'm saying that that A+B+profit=C, and that CCP sets A and B, players set their own acceptable profit, and hence CCP also sets most of the price of C too.


Hmm, good point, cant think of anything to counter that.

Liz Laser
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2009.03.12 13:30:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: Liz Laser on 12/03/2009 13:39:42
Only read the O.P., but basically, T3 is being beta-tested and has little value until they scale it up.

Cruisers just don't get used much by the people who have the isk to afford the latest greatest tech toys. Eventually, after god knows how much balancing and nerfing, tech 3 will be available for numerous types of ships, including Battleships.

In the meantime, w-space is going to be for (mostly weekend) grouping fun vs. tougher AIs and not really for profit. It is like mounting a mining op in low-sec, you KNOW there are better risk-reward activities, but the tension/fun factor is something you can't get by mini-maxing profitability.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.03.12 13:48:00 - [84]
 

Akita, you are very wrong. My allaince have double the prices of some items, and kept it high for months. Its pretty easy if you know how to manipulate markets :).

ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
Posted - 2009.03.12 13:51:00 - [85]
 

wspace will become a transit point for k-w-k travel mostly unless we get regular pirate factions also setting up shop in wspace along with bounties, moon minerals

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.03.12 14:03:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Akita, you are very wrong. My allaince have double the prices of some items, and kept it high for months. Its pretty easy if you know how to manipulate markets :).

It very much depends on what types of items, and what markets.
Also, upwards manipulation can be achieved by players, depending on what/where, indeed.
Even temporary downwards can work too.
But SUSTAINED DOWNWARDS manipulation, no way, not unless you keep pumping your own resources into it.
In order to lower prices past equilibrium, you have to sacrifice funds or goods as a player.
Only CCP can permanently lower prices by tweaking the things only they can tweak.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.12 14:03:00 - [87]
 

The last thing on my mind last night when I entered w-space was turning a profit. The excitment of being able to explore something completely new outweighs that for me by a very large margin. I entered w-space from a 0.5 sec system in Caldari space. There were 15 sleeper complexes and 20 other cosmic signatures in there. Now THAT is a playground.

I suppose everything gets old eventually, but I'm certainly not going to worry about making isk in w-space for quite some time.

Failure? I think not. It's a failure of the imagination to say so at this point, IMO.

Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2009.03.12 14:06:00 - [88]
 

My problem, and I really like the new rats and wish all the rats were that fun to shoot, is the utter devoidness of stuff in these systems. There are Ladar and Gravametric sites but zero belts, no moon mining, and zero ability to slap a station down if someone wanted to.

Whats the appeal when I can find all of the before mentioned in 0.0? The risks are there, the stuff is there, and the pew pew is there. (Even though the rats are smarter then most pilots lmao.)

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.03.12 14:07:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Ana Vyr
The last thing on my mind last night when I entered w-space was turning a profit. The excitment of being able to explore something completely new outweighs that for me by a very large margin.

And that wears off in a couple of weeks tops, then you WANT PROFIT OR YOU STOP GOING THERE.

Wet Ferret
Posted - 2009.03.12 14:09:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Megan Maynard
My problem, and I really like the new rats and wish all the rats were that fun to shoot, is the utter devoidness of stuff in these systems. There are Ladar and Gravametric sites but zero belts, no moon mining, and zero ability to slap a station down if someone wanted to.

Whats the appeal when I can find all of the before mentioned in 0.0? The risks are there, the stuff is there, and the pew pew is there. (Even though the rats are smarter then most pilots lmao.)


Because you can get it without being chained by the ankle to an alliance? We don't really know all of what's out there yet anyway.


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