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Wan Ton
Posted - 2009.03.10 23:33:00 - [1]
 

Bit of a noob question but after reading around I can't find a satisfactory answer.

Is sensor dampening a viable PvP strategy for small-medium gangs? I see a lot of ECM guides but nothing about sensor dampening. Is this because its not considered viable/effective or because its just a lot easier to figure out? If so, does anyone have any tips/advice in using it?

Any answers appreciated.

General Coochie
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2009.03.11 00:29:00 - [2]
 

It can affect one ship bascily. So if you are gankin smth with long range ships it can be useful, can also be used to try and damp ecm boats.

ECM can affect at least 2-3. and does it better to everyone of them ships then damps do to one ship -generally-


Von Kroll
Caldari
Kroll's Legion
Posted - 2009.03.11 17:01:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: General Coochie
ECM can affect at least 2-3. and does it better to everyone of them ships then damps do to one ship -generally-




1 ECM module affects 1 target, just like 1 Sensor Dampner affects 1 target. 1 ECM module does not affect 2-3 targets simultaneously.

To the OP, I've never used them but I know the Burn Eden Raven setup uses Dampners effectively. I've also seen Falcons that get neutralized with sensor dampners. So, ultimately, like every other module in this game, properly employed, I'd say they would be effective.

Kavu
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.03.11 17:05:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Kavu on 11/03/2009 17:05:29
damps used to be far more effective,on the level of falcons currently. As in a arazu you could damp a BS down to a 2.5 km targeting range and a very long lock time, but the introduction of scripts pretty effectivley nerfed them from general use.

Though still able to be effective in specific circumstances, they are not what they once were.

Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
Posted - 2009.03.11 19:47:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Wan Ton
Is sensor dampening a viable PvP strategy for small-medium gangs?
As others have said, no, not really. I'll give a bit more info though.

tl;dr - Damps suck.

First a history lesson. Damps used to be ignored long ago, in fact they were laughed at. Why use damps when you can use ECM? Then ECM got nerfed into uselessness (even on ECM boats). Time passed and people rediscovered damps. Best named damps at that time simultaneously crushed both targeting and locktime by about 50%. And that was on an unbonused ship, Arazu/Celestis were about 70%. And if your were stacking three at the same time? Well ouch. As Von Kroll mentioned, Burn Eden made fabulous use of this on their Ravens at gatecamps. I liked to use them on my mission-hunting Nos Domi. CCP claimed that everybody and their dog was using them (though I never encountered another user except Burn Eden). Meanwhile, ECM had just gotten it's boost back for bonused ships. Was handy, but still not as Falcon-heavy as it is today (because people could use damps). Then of course, damps got nerfed. Base strength was cut by two-thirds down to around 20% and scripts were introduced so you could only use one effect at a time at full strength. And that full strength was only 66% of what it used to be.

Now why aren't they viable? Well first because only a bonused ship can use them with any real effect. But even on a bonused ship focusing three damps on a target can't reduce targeting range below the optimal range of short-range weapons (ie. BS gets knocked down to about 20km). Note that you have to use at least three on one target to have a decent effect, whereas ECM has a chance with each individual jammer (which is why ECM is more popular - can potentially shut down multiple opponents). In addition to this, damps don't reduce locktime when using the range scripts. So once the target gets to the range where they would be firing anyways, then they lock in about 5 seconds and it's business as normal. No huge effect.

Conceivably, you could use damps in combination with long-range weapons. But then how do you hold down the target? Unlike the PvP Alliance Tournament, normal gameplay does not include GMs who will blow up opponents if they warp away (which the ONLY reason why damps were useful there). You would still need tacklers, and those tacklers would still be within engagement range of a damped target. That leads to dead tacklers and opponents warping off. Plus sniper setups suck in small-medium gangs since the alpha isn't all that high, and you need to split your gang to have tacklers.

So no, damps are not terribly viable.

Ged Satti
Satti Research and Development
Gunboat Diplomacy
Posted - 2009.03.11 20:37:00 - [6]
 

Damps with scan resolution scripts can be effective if used in conjunction with an ECM ship. If your ECM ship can only occasionally jam someone hitting their scan resolution means it takes longer for them to lock, so the ECMs have more time to cycle and try again. It won't completely lock them out, but buying another 5-6 seconds for the jammer to try again can be huge. Of course again you have the problem of needing to stack damps and if they're jamming multiple targets you may not know who they won't be able to lock down.

Dasalt Istgut
Posted - 2009.03.11 21:07:00 - [7]
 

Some things about damps :

1) 3 damps can have a large range effect when scripted for range against a single opponent.

2) Split up amongst separate opponents (like you would do with ECM), they are useless.

3) If your target is a close range and very fast boat you have to also tackle them. This is why the scram bonus to disable MWD's was nice for Gallente recons. Essentially you can scram a target, tackle them and then damp them so they can't target you back. Issue here is that this works on one target - if the enemy has friends you won't have damps or scrams left to work on them as well.

Basically damps are nice against single targets - they're sometimes nice against snipers to break locks and they're sometimes nice fitting on a sniper ship like a stealth bomber because you can focus them on an enemy ship to break their lock on you.

Outside of that though they aren't very good. They aren't "generally always useful" electronic warfare like webs, scrams & ECM is. They're more of a niche thing.

Wan Ton
Posted - 2009.03.11 23:16:00 - [8]
 

Thanks very much for the info and history lesson folks. I can see a lot of sense in what people are saying, which is always good. I may have a play and see what can be done, although I suspect it might cost me a few ships along the way!


Omara Otawan
Posted - 2009.03.12 18:53:00 - [9]
 

Sensor damps are best used to force the enemy into a shortrange engagement. You benefit most from them if your fleet is strong in the short range, and your enemy is strong in medium to long range.


You can try to use them as poor-mans-ecm and spam RSDs on a single target hoping to lock it down completely, but eve designers obviously dont want it used that way so it is nerfed in that respect.

A good niche where it still works wonders though is the Arazu (and Lach to some extend) tackling very strong single targets, as you can usually drop their lockrange easily below your disruptor range.


 

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