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Esiel
Renegade Serenity
Posted - 2009.03.09 12:18:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Esiel on 09/03/2009 12:20:02
I was messing around in W-space on sisi and I found out something rather interesting. My drones where killed quite quickly by the sleepers even thou I was the target.

While I like the idea of smarter AI this makes drones useless and eliminates a lot of dps and makes small group engagements even harder than they really should be. I like the fact that sleepers are harder but they really shouldn't completely eliminate an offensive ability from a ship. (Imagine if missiles where useless because the sleepers had point defense.)

I hope CCP re-thinks this and let us drone users be able to compete with others.


(edit: spelling)

Dragonwell
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.03.09 12:27:00 - [2]
 

Players can and will do the same exact thing. Sleepers are meant to be more akin to player PVPers than your typical rat.

Braaage
Ministry of Craft
Posted - 2009.03.09 12:29:00 - [3]
 

What Dragonwell said plus at least take the blessing whilst they are shooting your drones they aren't shooting you YARRRR!!

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.03.09 12:30:00 - [4]
 

The secret with keeping drones alive, or so I'm told, is to be a bigger threat to the Sleeper ships than your drones are.

Do some damage yourself, repair your drones and your fleetmates. You'll get targetted again :)

Khornne
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.09 12:31:00 - [5]
 

Scoop drones, release drones, ????, profit?

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2009.03.09 12:32:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Tzar''rim on 09/03/2009 12:32:07
Personally I would LOVE them to attack my drones and just keep launching T1 lights. Anything's better than getting OMFGWTFBBQ damage on your ship itself Very Happy

Remmon
Amarr
Posted - 2009.03.09 12:35:00 - [7]
 

Unfortunately, they'll only target your drones if they consider them a bigger threat then you.

A bunch of T1 lights might not do enough damage to draw aggro.

Confuzer I
Posted - 2009.03.09 12:36:00 - [8]
 

Nerf sleepers!

(and not Falcons)

Sleepers are the new Falcon!

Allahs Warrior
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.03.09 12:41:00 - [9]
 

no fair deez smart AI guiz r smart, CCP PLZ NERF!

H Lecter
Gallente
The Black Rabbits Academy
The Gurlstas Associates
Posted - 2009.03.09 12:54:00 - [10]
 

Dammit, so you have to be at your keyboard to kill those sleepers??

ShockedLaughingLaughingLaughing

ry ry
Heroes.
Merciless.
Posted - 2009.03.09 12:58:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: ry ry on 09/03/2009 12:58:45

i think i will be bear-tanking these sleeper spawns.

to do this you need a point, some ewar and a fast interceptor.

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:11:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Tzar''rim on 09/03/2009 13:10:56
Originally by: ry ry
Edited by: ry ry on 09/03/2009 12:58:45

i think i will be bear-tanking these sleeper spawns.

to do this you need a point, some ewar and a fast interceptor.


And some extra underwear.

Terail Zoqial
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:14:00 - [13]
 

Tank the drones with remote reps, duh! Wink

Esiel
Renegade Serenity
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:44:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Dragonwell
Players can and will do the same exact thing. Sleepers are meant to be more akin to player PVPers than your typical rat.

I have been in a lot of fleet battles and quite frankly no one targets med or small drones. (They might smart bomb them but target them???)

Originally by: Mara Rinn
The secret with keeping drones alive, or so I'm told, is to be a bigger threat to the Sleeper ships than your drones are.

Do some damage yourself, repair your drones and your fleetmates. You'll get targetted again :)

If drones are a large part of your weapons then you are screwed. Basically you have removed 1/2 of the gallente weapons and 1/4 of the amarr because you can't do more damage than they can.

Originally by: Terail Zoqial
Tank the drones with remote reps, duh! Wink

You honestly think your reps are going to keep up with sleeper damage on a drone?!?

I just want to be able to compete and be able to do something to them and not have to learn to fly Caldari or something else.

ry ry
Heroes.
Merciless.
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:51:00 - [15]
 

aggro management is going to be extremely important vs sleepers - i think he meant rr the drones for the enormous threat level it will generate so you can pull aggro back onto yourself.

Ginako
The Praxis Initiative
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:52:00 - [16]
 

If you're doing these W-Space encounters solo I would suggest keeping your Drones bunked for a little bit and pop off some Railgun/Blaster shots for a minute or two just to get the Sleepers riled up. After you've got them in their little Binary Robo Rage, then release the Drones and let them do what they do best and keep a Close eye on them.

If you're doing these with a Partner (I imagine most pilots will be) then one or both of you should equip some logistics. The sleepers will prioritize according to threat and remote repping is really high on that list (If you REALLY want their attention). Wink

Braaage
Ministry of Craft
Posted - 2009.03.09 13:55:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Ginako
If you're doing these W-Space encounters solo then you're just gonna die


Fixed it for you. Very Happy

Esmenet
Gallente
Posted - 2009.03.09 14:03:00 - [18]
 

Apparently they are so challenging you have to think outside the box (Rolling Eyes), and train another weapon system.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.03.09 14:10:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Esiel
Originally by: Dragonwell
Players can and will do the same exact thing. Sleepers are meant to be more akin to player PVPers than your typical rat.

I have been in a lot of fleet battles and quite frankly no one targets med or small drones. (They might smart bomb them but target them???)

Originally by: Mara Rinn
The secret with keeping drones alive, or so I'm told, is to be a bigger threat to the Sleeper ships than your drones are.

Do some damage yourself, repair your drones and your fleetmates. You'll get targetted again :)

If drones are a large part of your weapons then you are screwed. Basically you have removed 1/2 of the gallente weapons and 1/4 of the amarr because you can't do more damage than they can.

Originally by: Terail Zoqial
Tank the drones with remote reps, duh! Wink

You honestly think your reps are going to keep up with sleeper damage on a drone?!?

I just want to be able to compete and be able to do something to them and not have to learn to fly Caldari or something else.


Fleet battle tactics are irrelevant to this discussion. W space combat will be small to medium size gang combat, and in that scenario drones are defiantly a viable target.


Par'Gellen
Gallente
Neon Cranium
Posted - 2009.03.09 14:22:00 - [20]
 

I fought numerous Sleepers on sisi Saturday. One thing I noticed very quickly is that drones are useless as a means of DPS. Completely and utterly useless. No amount of micromanagement will keep them alive and unless you have a means of aquiring more drones in W-Space (no small feat) you will run out of them fairly quickly.

However, they make wonderful decoys!

Load up your drone bay with some "throw-away" Warrior I's and use them to distract the Sleepers while you regen your shields/cap/armor/whatever. I found that bouncing the drones back and forth between distant objects like wrecks or players or even the sleepers themselves keeps them hauling butt fast enough to avoid most hits. You'll still lose them though. Sleepers apparently have tracking systems designed by God himself.

If you are going in planning to use drones as a form of DPS then you can forget it. The Sleepers will eat them as soon as they are launched. Damage output means nothing at all. They were targetting my drones as soon as they were launched before I had even given them any orders. Hell they even attacked repair drones before they started repairing anything!

Hope CCP sorts this as it really is quite unfair to those specced in drones.

Bish Ounen
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Cult of War
Posted - 2009.03.09 14:29:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Bish Ounen on 09/03/2009 14:29:49
Originally by: Dragonwell
Players can and will ATTEMPT TO do the same exact thing AT A SIGNIFICANTLY LESS EFFECTIVE LEVEL. Sleepers are meant to be more akin to player PVPers than your typical rat, BUT BEING COMPUTER AI, THEY NEVER MISS NOR FAIL TO POP ALL YOUR DRONES. SO THEY ARE FAR MORE DIFFICULT THAN ACTUAL PVP.


ftfy.

Wink

Kirra Liu
Serenity Rising.
Posted - 2009.03.09 14:39:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Kirra Liu on 09/03/2009 14:39:33


Originally by: Esiel

I have been in a lot of fleet battles and quite frankly no one targets med or small drones. (They might smart bomb them but target them???)




Well I done a lot of solo PvP and can assure you drones do get targeted and shot at in some fights. Fleet battles is not the definition of PvP.

Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.03.09 14:51:00 - [23]
 

OP, W-Space is too hard for you. I recommend not going there.

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2009.03.09 14:59:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Par'Gellen
I fought numerous Sleepers on sisi Saturday. One thing I noticed very quickly is that drones are useless as a means of DPS. Completely and utterly useless. No amount of micromanagement will keep them alive and unless you have a means of aquiring more drones in W-Space (no small feat) you will run out of them fairly quickly.

However, they make wonderful decoys!

Load up your drone bay with some "throw-away" Warrior I's and use them to distract the Sleepers while you regen your shields/cap/armor/whatever. I found that bouncing the drones back and forth between distant objects like wrecks or players or even the sleepers themselves keeps them hauling butt fast enough to avoid most hits. You'll still lose them though. Sleepers apparently have tracking systems designed by God himself.

If you are going in planning to use drones as a form of DPS then you can forget it. The Sleepers will eat them as soon as they are launched. Damage output means nothing at all. They were targetting my drones as soon as they were launched before I had even given them any orders. Hell they even attacked repair drones before they started repairing anything!

Hope CCP sorts this as it really is quite unfair to those specced in drones.


That'll be the new call, though. They'll have to nerf the sleeper AI, to prevent players from exploiting the drone priority in order to solo sleepers with ease.

Krevos Moritir
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2009.03.09 15:05:00 - [25]
 

adapt or die.

Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2009.03.09 15:08:00 - [26]
 

Ohnoes, our existing PVE tactics dont work against the new NPCs! Wah oh wah!

I'm a drone fanboy so it looks like I'll be fitting up turrets in W-Space?

Esmenet
Gallente
Posted - 2009.03.09 15:08:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Faife
OP, W-Space is too hard for you. I recommend not going there.


There is nothing challenging in making one weapon system subpar/useless. Its just bad gamedesign.

Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Posted - 2009.03.09 15:14:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Esmenet
There is nothing challenging in making one weapon system subpar/useless. Its just bad gamedesign.


I agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if clever players found a way to manage the sleeper agro in such a manner that drones are no longer being targeted.

All we need now is a bonus to Taunt skill on the Dominix. Laughing

Jana Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2009.03.09 15:26:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Bish Ounen
Edited by: Bish Ounen on 09/03/2009 14:29:49
Originally by: Dragonwell
Players can and will ATTEMPT TO do the same exact thing AT A SIGNIFICANTLY LESS EFFECTIVE LEVEL. Sleepers are meant to be more akin to player PVPers than your typical rat, BUT BEING COMPUTER AI, THEY NEVER MISS NOR FAIL TO POP ALL YOUR DRONES. SO THEY ARE FAR MORE DIFFICULT THAN ACTUAL PVP.


ftfy.

Wink


Maybe I missed a memo, but where does it say that killing Sleepers has to be easier than PVP?

Alora Venoda
GalTech
Whiskey Creek Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.09 15:35:00 - [30]
 

i tested using drones in a gang with a drake and golem against some frigate and cruiser sized sleepers. they killed one of my T2 light drones so fast i didn't even notice it was attacked until it was already gone. this was unfortunate since our heavy and cruise missiles were taking a long time to kill the frigates.

one thing i noticed was that the frigate sized sleepers orbited around 3 km, which should be within smartbomb range...

also, if your w-system has a neutron star, your max cap is doubled and your cap recharge rate is halved. and also, all active shield boosting or armor repping is cut in half too Mad


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