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AC Resonance
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.03.04 15:41:00 - [151]
 

Edited by: AC Resonance on 04/03/2009 15:41:17
/applauds

well said OP, well said.

Caldari Citizen4714
Posted - 2009.03.04 15:43:00 - [152]
 

Originally by: Rells
I used to have huge advantages over newer players and it was really awesome being able to lord it over them and tease them with things they could never attain. T2 BPOs? Not if you didn't start the game 4 years ago, sucker. T2 modules? Not unless you're crazy rich, you peasant. Deadspace modules? Not if you didn't have a corp camping the static complexes newbie.

Now that the playing field isn't so tilted in my favor I have no recourse but to whine on the forums.

-- Signed: Entrenched Disillusioned Jackhole
Translated it for ya.

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2009.03.04 15:48:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714
Originally by: Rells
I used to have huge advantages over newer players and it was really awesome being able to lord it over them and tease them with things they could never attain. T2 BPOs? Not if you didn't start the game 4 years ago, sucker. T2 modules? Not unless you're crazy rich, you peasant. Deadspace modules? Not if you didn't have a corp camping the static complexes newbie.

Now that the playing field isn't so tilted in my favor I have no recourse but to whine on the forums.

-- Signed: Entrenched Disillusioned Jackhole
Translated it for ya.


That's actually pretty funny.

Hahahah ...

Delkin
Amarr
Posted - 2009.03.04 15:50:00 - [154]
 


/me looks up @AC Resonance

Well known hardcore pilot IN 0.9 how is Dodixie







Midge Mo'yb
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.03.04 15:50:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Spurty

EVE is a sandbox

Alliances and Blues = reason no one to shoot out in 0.0

Drop all your blues and make a 10man corp, go enjoy the fact 0.0 is rather bursting with targets.



This TBH i did it recently and its bee nthe most fun ive had in months, while there may be more than 10 of us we usually have about 10-15 men fleets - the issue is the locals and there blobs.. dont get me wrong were having fun and getting kills, but agony have setup shot next door which generaly number about 30(man they went down hill since rells left - the smack is stupid) and the NC fleets tend to pass by every now and then... but yeah plenty targets, lots of fun... if your not part of the nap fests.


bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
Posted - 2009.03.04 15:51:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714
Originally by: Rells
I used to have huge advantages over newer players and it was really awesome being able to lord it over them and tease them with things they could never attain. T2 BPOs? Not if you didn't start the game 4 years ago, sucker. T2 modules? Not unless you're crazy rich, you peasant. Deadspace modules? Not if you didn't have a corp camping the static complexes newbie.

Now that the playing field isn't so tilted in my favor I have no recourse but to whine on the forums.

-- Signed: Entrenched Disillusioned Jackhole
Translated it for ya.


You Mr "I have my name nerfed because I choosed to name it 1st like a 12 year old would do" clearly don`t know Rells, as he is/was the one that took n00bs like you and teached them the robes of EVE pvp for years.

Aarin Wrath
Caldari
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2009.03.04 15:51:00 - [157]
 

Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714
Originally by: Rells
I used to have huge advantages over newer players and it was really awesome being able to lord it over them and tease them with things they could never attain. T2 BPOs? Not if you didn't start the game 4 years ago, sucker. T2 modules? Not unless you're crazy rich, you peasant. Deadspace modules? Not if you didn't have a corp camping the static complexes newbie.

Now that the playing field isn't so tilted in my favor I have no recourse but to whine on the forums.

-- Signed: Entrenched Disillusioned Jackhole
Translated it for ya.


haha. Too true.

I guess I am not the only one who thought the OP's post was a load of drivel. ugh

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2009.03.04 15:56:00 - [158]
 

Whilst Rells makes some good points I think the overall context is missing. When EVE was released the MMO Genre was still in its infancy - sure there were precedents but by and large MMOs were not the mainstream gaming experience they are today.

As MMOs have become more popular, they have attracted a more moderate, casual player. EVE in order to grow and remain competitive in the MMO market place needed to accommodate those players - and to a great extent it still does.

These players are risk averse because they have come from a background of gaming which itself is risk averse. It's an alien concept to many. Simply removing the 'high sec crutches' for such a group would be a traumatic shock to there play style, perhaps to the point of them rejecting EVE in its entirety.

So what is needed is a process where by these players become accustomed to risk and loss and, to an extent, are enticed to do so. Faction Warfare and W-Space are two elements which should enable this change in mentality, but it is not enough in itself.

In my view the entire 'warfare' system, from Sovereignty to Bounty Hunting needs a thorough review. Low Sec and .0 space need to offer not just 'more isk' but a genuine reason for wanting to be in those regions. Warfare needs to be fun - not a boring POS grind.

There needs to be the ability to create a variety of viable social constructs in .0 - from small 'space colonies', planetary governance, nomadic industries to the classic 'alliance power block'.

If we follow the same old path of 'more isk = better ship = more isk = better ship...' ad infinitum then yes, High Sec Space has every single advantage. However if we offer the individual or the small corp a chance to carve out there own small patch of space the lure of .0 will be considerable.

To achieve this will mean a revamp of how relationships between players/corps/alliances actually work at a game mechanics level.

C.



Taylor timenenzi
Posted - 2009.03.04 15:57:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
Oh look, An "EVE IS DYING" whine thread.

How common.

Oh and by the way - The player count on EVE has drastically risen since all of those changes you've mentioned took place, therefore if anything - EVE is doing quite the opposite of dying.

You might as well leave. I doubt CCP will care. 5 year veteran or not, you pay the same amount as a newb that would take your place.

Oh and your stuff, contract it to me.

-- Signed: A 1 year newb looking forward to Apocrypha.


First of all, I wouldn't give you the sweat off my balls.

Second of all, stay in highsec where you can hide behind your mommy's skirts bcause its carebears like you that are so fun to kill and send crying.


Cute how the only ones we see crying are the HARDCORE LEET GANKBEARS

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2009.03.04 15:59:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: Aarin Wrath
Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714
Originally by: Rells
I used to have huge advantages over newer players and it was really awesome being able to lord it over them and tease them with things they could never attain. T2 BPOs? Not if you didn't start the game 4 years ago, sucker. T2 modules? Not unless you're crazy rich, you peasant. Deadspace modules? Not if you didn't have a corp camping the static complexes newbie.

Now that the playing field isn't so tilted in my favor I have no recourse but to whine on the forums.

-- Signed: Entrenched Disillusioned Jackhole
Translated it for ya.


haha. Too true.

I guess I am not the only one who thought the OP's post was a load of drivel. ugh


No, you gotta see from the OP's point of view to get passed the bias. You join a game, playing and paying with a developer that's never been heard of. Everything they do, you love. Then they start doing stuff for other people, and all of a sudden you're not as important as you once were.

Many of us join a game because we like the game itself. But the problem with that, is game's change. Unlike other games where you can level a character in 30 days, in EvE, a five year account is a SERIOUS investment of time and life.

So yeah, it was full of a bunch of bias, insults, and other opinions that I don't share (being as much a carebear as a pvper, myself). But it was also full of a very reasonable complaint: that he's just wasted five years of his life enjoying a game that might have changed too much.

I just think that he's wrong with how far CCP's drifted away. I think they remember the PvPers, I think they've got us on tap. I think Apoc and wormholes, specifically, were meant to do what many want: entice players out of safety, entice them out of false assumptions about pvp and 0.0, and show them that the original intent of the game is still valid and VERY, VERY fun.

Atreus Tac
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:00:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: Taylor timenenzi
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
Oh look, An "EVE IS DYING" whine thread.

How common.

Oh and by the way - The player count on EVE has drastically risen since all of those changes you've mentioned took place, therefore if anything - EVE is doing quite the opposite of dying.

You might as well leave. I doubt CCP will care. 5 year veteran or not, you pay the same amount as a newb that would take your place.

Oh and your stuff, contract it to me.

-- Signed: A 1 year newb looking forward to Apocrypha.


First of all, I wouldn't give you the sweat off my balls.

Second of all, stay in highsec where you can hide behind your mommy's skirts bcause its carebears like you that are so fun to kill and send crying.


Cute how the only ones we see crying are the HARDCORE LEET GANKBEARS


How about you look at the ninja salvaging posts, they arent even getting shot at and the mission runners still whine

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:02:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Atreus Tac
Originally by: Taylor timenenzi
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
Oh look, An "EVE IS DYING" whine thread.

How common.

Oh and by the way - The player count on EVE has drastically risen since all of those changes you've mentioned took place, therefore if anything - EVE is doing quite the opposite of dying.

You might as well leave. I doubt CCP will care. 5 year veteran or not, you pay the same amount as a newb that would take your place.

Oh and your stuff, contract it to me.

-- Signed: A 1 year newb looking forward to Apocrypha.


First of all, I wouldn't give you the sweat off my balls.

Second of all, stay in highsec where you can hide behind your mommy's skirts bcause its carebears like you that are so fun to kill and send crying.


Cute how the only ones we see crying are the HARDCORE LEET GANKBEARS


How about you look at the ninja salvaging posts, they arent even getting shot at and the mission runners still whine


Heheheh ... everyone whines. PvPers whine about no targets, PvEers whine about being targets, carebears whine about theft and ganks, hardcores whine about too much security. And everyone whines about not enough content and isk.

Caudex
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:03:00 - [163]
 

Edited by: Caudex on 04/03/2009 16:04:21
Eve is a game for everybody.

PvP is not nor has it ever been the focus of the game, because there *is* no focus to the game, eve is many different things to many different people.

Caldari Citizen4714
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:05:00 - [164]
 

Originally by: bitters much
Ad hominem
My name was something funny and very mildly profane in German. CCP changed it and I don't care.

It's what I say that should matter, not my character name or how long I've been playing the game.

And FYI, I've been playing since 05. So I'm semi-entrenched myself, but I see anything that brings more targets players into the game is a GoodThing(tm). Even if it erodes my entrenched superiority.

The nerf to suicide ganking makes me sad, but things like like losing a billion ISK in high sec makes people quit the game and that's bad, even for me, in the long term.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:05:00 - [165]
 

Over the years CCP have done a number of things to make Eve more "mainstream", including GTC/ISK swaps and jump clones, and now of course we have skill queues and attribute repsecs.

Now, individually these measures (and others like them) may not ruin Eve, but the thing is they all point in the same direction, and I (as well as some other vets it seems) am not sure if I like what else lies in that direction.

Now, I'm not saying that I'm going to be quitting Eve any time soon. But I don't feel any desire to rush out and get an additional account and the odds of some other game coming along to steal me away are increasing with time.


Caldari Citizen4714
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:07:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: Ruze
PvPers whine about no targets, PvEers whine about being targets
Quote of the MOFOing day! (absurdly huge emphasis, mine)

Mordekai Bloodwake
Gallente
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:08:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: Ruze

The only reason you support that argument, is because it supports your own playstyle. When and if "money" was used to change something you fundamentally cared about, you'd look at anybody who tried to throw that around as a valid reason to make a fundamental change to what you like ... as a pompous *ss.

It's easy to argue capitalism while you're moving in the same direction of the market. It becomes a completely different issue when it moves in a direction you don't want to. There are many ways to invest in EvE and bring in new consumers, without relegating PvP to select zones. There's a reason players choose EvE above other games, and making it PvE focused is going to end up very poorly when games that have dedicated themselves to PvE hit the market.

Luckily, though, I don't think CCP agrees with the 'moar money' concept ... or, I think they've got the sense to make a game where PvP can still remain equal or greater than PvE. I mean, just look at all the time and effort spent on the upcoming Apoc expansion. That's a lot of 0.0 systems that are PERFECTLY refined for small scale pvp, and with many access points in hisec.

I think that even CCP is aware of their drift from their PvP roots, and I do believe that they feel wormhole space is a way to bridge the gap, so to speak.

Cause what many pve'ers hate to recognize, is that the PvP community is not nearly as small or insignificant as they wish it was.


"Money" IS everything!, without it there is NO Eve, without it there is NO expansions, no additional programmers, artists and so on. You can talk about playstyles and you can talk about "caring" all day till your blue, but at the end of the day its still all about "Money".

And for you or ANYONE to think CCP doesnt care about 'moar money' ill throw this at you;

Dear CCP,

Next time you guys purchase new hardware in order to reduce LAG take it out of your own pocket. Also next time you guys want to hire a programmer or aritist please pay them in "For the love of Eve PvPz0rz" currency and not in real monetary currency.

Oh and since you guys DO NOT need 'moar money' give us more graphical upgrades, larger server architecture, more expansions, more sounds, more graphical effects and most above ALL please make Eve Free-2-Play since you DO NOT need 'moar money'!


Yep your a real winner ...
Quote:
I don't think CCP agrees with the 'moar money' concept
.. LMAO! i cant stop laughing

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:15:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake
Originally by: Ruze

The only reason you support that argument, is because it supports your own playstyle. When and if "money" was used to change something you fundamentally cared about, you'd look at anybody who tried to throw that around as a valid reason to make a fundamental change to what you like ... as a pompous *ss.

It's easy to argue capitalism while you're moving in the same direction of the market. It becomes a completely different issue when it moves in a direction you don't want to. There are many ways to invest in EvE and bring in new consumers, without relegating PvP to select zones. There's a reason players choose EvE above other games, and making it PvE focused is going to end up very poorly when games that have dedicated themselves to PvE hit the market.

Luckily, though, I don't think CCP agrees with the 'moar money' concept ... or, I think they've got the sense to make a game where PvP can still remain equal or greater than PvE. I mean, just look at all the time and effort spent on the upcoming Apoc expansion. That's a lot of 0.0 systems that are PERFECTLY refined for small scale pvp, and with many access points in hisec.

I think that even CCP is aware of their drift from their PvP roots, and I do believe that they feel wormhole space is a way to bridge the gap, so to speak.

Cause what many pve'ers hate to recognize, is that the PvP community is not nearly as small or insignificant as they wish it was.


"Money" IS everything!, without it there is NO Eve, without it there is NO expansions, no additional programmers, artists and so on. You can talk about playstyles and you can talk about "caring" all day till your blue, but at the end of the day its still all about "Money".

And for you or ANYONE to think CCP doesnt care about 'moar money' ill throw this at you;

Dear CCP,

Next time you guys purchase new hardware in order to reduce LAG take it out of your own pocket. Also next time you guys want to hire a programmer or aritist please pay them in "For the love of Eve PvPz0rz" currency and not in real monetary currency.

Oh and since you guys DO NOT need 'moar money' give us more graphical upgrades, larger server architecture, more expansions, more sounds, more graphical effects and most above ALL please make Eve Free-2-Play since you DO NOT need 'moar money'!


Yep your a real winner ...
Quote:
I don't think CCP agrees with the 'moar money' concept
.. LMAO! i cant stop laughing



Hahahah ... read the whole quote and sentence next time.

AS I said before, I don't believe that moar money literally means 'PvPers get ignored while everyone else gets a boost'. I think CCP knows better than all the PvE 'I'm never going to leave hisec and there are more of us and so we deserve everything' crowd. And, to be honest, I think they know better than the pure pvp crowd, too.

But we're witnessing that the argument that 'money' drives them away from PvP is false. Look how much of that money that they make and earn is spent towards increasing server infrastructure for large 0.0 warfare. Or, the next expansion! That's a LOT of developer time and resources for something which is 100% pvp capable.

So maybe they know something we don't. Maybe they know that the vast MAJORITY of EvE gamers participate in both PvP and PvE in some form, across multiple toons or accounts.

Or, maybe they are smart enough to throw enough of a bone to the hisec hiders to draw cash in for the rest of the game. And other games they are producing.

But to put it bluntly, not every company is Blizzard, McDonalds or WalMart. Money may be the driving force to getting things done, but some actually care about the product they produce.

Some. Not all. I just hope that CCP still cares about their product ... and I think they most definitely do.

Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:18:00 - [169]
 

Honestly, I've been playing for more than five years now myself, and I just see EVE getting better and better, overall. Nothing is perfect of course, but they really do make the effort to cater to all styles of play, from what I've seen anyway.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:19:00 - [170]
 

Every MMO company wants a piece of the pie that WoW has revealed to exist. While I don't personally agree with the philosophy of catering to casual players at every turn, it's pretty obvious that that business model will sell your game. CCP is a company trying to survive an economic crisis. I find it really hard to blame them for the direction they are taking the game.

I'm a 6 month old player, roughly. I see 0.0 as the empire the veteran players built, and now control and protect. I want a chance to build my own empire as they once did. Unless you are willing to join an alliance corporation who is already there, tough beans, newbie. This is a big reason why I'm looking forward to the next expansion...something actually new to explore where everyone starts out on the same foot aside from veteran players having massive advantages in gear, skills, and organization already. I can live with that though. The way things are set up today in 0.0, there really is no reason to go unless you "belong".

Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:22:00 - [171]
 

Enormous respect here for the Rells/Agony reputation, though I don't actually know the dude.

That said, I think the OP reflects a cramped view of the EVE vision.

That long-lost pure PvP paradise that supposedly existed in early EVE was never the sole vision -- it was just the easiest, earliest thing that got built.

CCP is clearheaded about the fact that carebears outnumber the hard core. In recent years, their obvious goal has been to build a universe big enough to provide fun for both sets.

CCP also understands that it's a continuum, not a binary choice. And people move along that continuum (in both directions) over time.

EVE isn't just one sandbox, it's a whole neighborhood of sandboxes, each with slightly different sand and a different set of toys. I see this as a good thing -- the bigger the subscription base, the longer this game will last for my selfish enjoyment.

Apocrypha will add some of the hardest-core, capship-free, delayed-local, unrestricted PvP options EVE has seen in recent years. I think the bitter old vets should be screaming with predatory glee.

It's also going to have crunchy carebears to (attempt to) prey upon. Forget T3, forget Sleepers, we don't know if they'll wind up worth the trouble yet. Just the fact that there will be a place in the game where an industrial corp can anchor a fully-functional POS without having to worry about a huge alliance capital ship hot drop will make W-space popular. The logistics are a nightmare but some people love logistics. This is going to insanely great for bitter old vets who want more targets.

EVE isn't done, EVE isn't over, CCP has not lost all vision. EVE is just getting bigger, same as it's always done, and some people don't have the imagination to comprehend why that's a good thing.

Someday EVE will be so big that people will be able to play as long as Rells has done without ever even trying all the different ways that exist to experience the game. Having something for every conceivable player (rather than just the PvP purists) is what guarantees that this game will live forever. I can only see that as a good thing.

Kazlith
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:23:00 - [172]
 

Edited by: Kazlith on 04/03/2009 16:27:20
Oh yeh it's a carebear world allright, CCP only produce content for carebears.

I mean why else would they put the latest money spinning, ship building, team orientated PVE experience out in lawless space that is hard to supply and has delayed local.

Oh wait.

E: Also I don't actually know rells from eve (yet) but I do know him from darkfail and he was a whiny oh so mighty bore there too. Didn't click till just now.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:27:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Ana Vyr
Every MMO company wants a piece of the pie that WoW has revealed to exist.


And this is the problem, as it stifles true innovation and leads to games all looking the same.

Back in 2003 Eve was like a breath of fresh air precisely because it didn't copy other games out there. It had skills instead of classes and levels, it had offline training, it had a single server. It had lots of other things to differentiate it from the mainstream.

But now, it's moving back to the centre ground.

Don't get me wrong, WoW is a successful game and it obviously works on some levels because it has so many players. But it's not the game for me.

Just as in the music industry there's room for both Justin Timberlake and Pavarotti, there's room in the MMO idustry for different types of game.

What CCP appear to be doing at the moment is akin to asking Pavarotti to do some beat-boxing.

Calvin Roh
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:31:00 - [174]
 



Eve is a complex game and getting more complex by the release, people really need a safe zone to learn the ropes in and discover what they really want to do in EVE. Like so many others I was attracted to EVE for the Industrial side of things but after first mining/building until i was bored, then mission running until i was bored I got hooked up with a 0.0 crew and have never looked back....

What I am trying to say is that as Eve grows it subscription base, some will forever stay highsec players because that is what floats their boat when they want to take a break from RL and play a video game. The other group will naturally evolve to 0.0 as happens every day in Eve, and these people become the cannon fodder that you crave so much to fight with. Rejoice in this feeder system for your pvp.

I think EVE is quite a genius game in that they have built a system that attracts all sorts of players to the base:
science/industrialist <--> casual space combat with PvE <--> intense PvP, all of these interacting in a single interdependent economy.
That said, the style of game play you like is only ONE of those, so stop trying to make the world fit your sensibilities and look in anticipation at the thousands of highsec pilots, knowing that from that group who are perfectly happy doing their own thing and not yours, there are hundreds of budding adversaries for you in 0.0 and low sec PvP.

I read those pure pirates that salivate and get frustrated at the thousands of fat cattle begging to be shot down in high sec, but have to stay hands off for the most part. You should be thankful for the game mechanics - if it were a free for all, new players would be overrun by experienced and they would leave Eve, not replenishing the natural attrition rate a player base sees. Also, if these pirates were given free reign to attack wherever they wanted, they would become insanely bored with the obscenely easy kills and would get bored of Eve all together. The segregation keeps thighs good for all.

Also OP, I think part of your problem is not the game mechanics, its that you don't have any game goals that keep you jazzed any more, you simply sit in front of Eve because it is what you have been doing for 5 years now and that is where all your friends are - the gold has lost its luster for you, you can fly almost any ship most likely, do almost anything use almost any mod. Either set some new goals or find a new game that challenges you again, you cant let go but you are not moving forward. If you were still engaged by this game with things to grow into, you would be spending your mental energies elsewhere. And that is a logical statement and not a snide comment intended to insult.

And I 1000% disagree with you that the primary focus of EVE was PVP. Recall the pre-release days of Eve (my first experience with eve was for 6months both before and after its release - all the wright up from the original CCP devs and forums was about "MEGA-CORPS" with multiple facets of manufacturing, science, resource gathering, and then SUPPORTED by a combat wing for the inter Corporation wars that would arise to see who controlled the RESOURCES. Never once was this about WAR CLANS or WARLORDS, this was about diversity.

As for the incentive to come to 0.0... it is clear.. fun. Sure you can skill up and collect wealth in high sec if wealth is your goal. But you can earn more and have a hell of a good time throwing in some side line PvP with your alliance in 0.0. Feel sorry for those who are too cautions to come out to 0.0 to make isk, they are about to start their 800th L4 treadmill mission for perhaps 10 to 20M isk, where I can make that in 20 to 30 MAX ratting in 0.0 to fill my wallet so I can mine, moon mine, explore, build, fleet up, join a small roaming gang or build tower infrastructures in the rest of the time it would take to complete that same mission.

Reven Cordelle
Caldari
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:33:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake

What CCP appear to be doing at the moment is akin to asking Pavarotti to do some beat-boxing.


And why wouldn't a Beatboxing Pavarotti be ****ing awesome?

Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:38:00 - [176]
 

Rells, you gain applause. I am not that old in EVE, but I sign your complaint.

Originally by: Rells
Five years later and there is little reason to go to 0.0 except to treat it as a battle arena or if you have the moxy to take one of the 2 good areas in all of 0.0. The reward has been shifted for the most part to empire.


Carebears, flamewhine on!

Jacobs Gladedage
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:39:00 - [177]
 

Edited by: Jacobs Gladedage on 04/03/2009 16:40:27
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Just as in the music industry there's room for both Justin Timberlake and Pavarotti, there's room in the MMO idustry for different types of game.

I'm a metal fan which is a genre where bands usually start with independend labels and word or mouth marketing, but I can't think of a single metal band that hasn't turned mainstream once their popularity grew.

I don't view it as selling out though, it's simply a normal part of doing business since mainstream is where the money is at. MMO companies aren't different, and the only reason you'd think they were is because you've put up an illusion that they actually care about you beyond the lost number on their sales charts (which is being replaced by five other people).

It's kind of sad really but the only thing having goodwill toward a company will get you is disappointment and I doubt there is any company out there which truely deserves being thought of than more than being there to make money.

Maybe eve-online build it's roots on a hardcore community, maybe you helped it get to where it is today but don't for a second think they feel like they owe you anything when they can make ten times the money focusing on carebears.

My simple rule is: If you like it and have fun with it, then play it; otherwise don't.

Caldari Citizen4714
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:40:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Ana Vyr
Every MMO company wants a piece of the pie that WoW has revealed to exist.


And this is the problem, as it stifles true innovation and leads to games all looking the same.
No, it leads "me too"ers to copycat instead of besting them at their own game. For example, people use google because it gives users what they want, good search results first, and advertisements take a back seat. Put the user first and profits second, and you'll get profits anyway.

WoW is popular because it's freaking awesome and has mass appeal on merit. It has attributes that make it very appealing. Instant action, an excellent, responsive user interface, things that are addictive and fun to do, lots of instant gratification, with long term goals too, goals later in the game that end tedium early on. Blizzard asked the developers what they wanted to play, then told them to make it. WoW was born.

And I don't even like WoW. I'd rather play a mixture of EVE & Warhammer. Being as objective as I can, my biggest reasons for playing something other than EVE when I have time is I can sit down and do something fun immediately in warhammer. And if I lose a fight I don't lose anything important. I can try again almost immediately. But warhammer will never give me the "pvp shakes", so it'll never displace it completely.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:41:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: Jacobs Gladedage
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Just as in the music industry there's room for both Justin Timberlake and Pavarotti, there's room in the MMO idustry for different types of game.

I'm a metal fan which is a genre where bands usually start with independend labels and word or mouth marketing, but I can't think of a single metal band that hasn't turned mainstream once their popularity grew.

I don't view it as selling out though, it's simply a normal part of doing business since mainstream is where the money is at. MMO companies aren't different, and the only reason you'd think they were is because you've put up an illusion that they actually care about you beyond the lost number on their sales charts (which is being replaced by five other people).

It's kind of sad really but the only thing having goodwill toward a company will get you is disappointment and I doubt there is any company out there which truely deserves being thought of than more than being there to make money.

Maybe eve-online build it's roots on a hardcore community, maybe you helped it get to where it is today but don't for a second think they feel like they owe you anything when they can make ten times the money focusing on carebears.

My simple rule is. If you like it, have fun with it then play it. Otherwise don't.


But if one of your favourite metal bands decided to increase their record sales by imitating the Backstreet Boys, you'd be disappointed, no?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.03.04 16:45:00 - [180]
 

Most of the people showing a lot of hostility towards Rells seem to share one (or several) of the following traits :
* they are much younger in EVE age and resent him for flaunting it, unable to look at the facts because of the attitude of the poster
* consider that everybody should have equal opportunities for making ISK regardless of location in the game world, as opposed to having people who take more risk having a better pick at rewards
* think that CCP couldn't possibly BOTH have the game be enticing for new players AND rewarding for veterans at the same time

Seriously, if highsec/lowsec/0.0 would be pretty much on par (and, surprise, they almost are nowadays) income-wise, what's the point in having them in the first place ?!?
The necessary and SUFFICIENT change CCP has to make is revamp the rewards of lowsec/0.0 to be in-line with the ORIGINAL reward levels, when the game was in its infancy... and the changes needed to obtain exactly that aren't all that hard to code.

People in highsec would be affected in a negligible manner, and if they choose to NEVER leave highsec, well, good for them.
Carebears protected ? CHECK. CCP gets a lot of people in ? CHECK.
But those that do dare venture into lowsec (and suffer a higher risk of losses) SHOULD be rewarded by a better AVERAGE selection of possible rewards, be it by quality, or by quantity, or a little bit of both... even more so for 0.0 people.
Veterans happy ? CHECK. CCP retains more subscriptions ? CHECK.
What's so hard to understand in that ?


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