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Khaelis
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.03.02 09:06:00 - [1]
 

Ok, so I was quite happy at first to hear about battleship NPCs appearing in lowsec belts, means another way to make a quick buck for many.
But what effect will this have on the mineral market? From what I understand the drone regions are to blame for the very very low high end mineral prices at the moment. Maybe that's also the cause for the astronomical prices of veldspar/tritatium.

To CCP, what are you plans if any on "balancing" the market. Right now Veldspar is easily the most valuable mineral by far.

To the players, what do you think about the mineral market at the moment and do you think lowsec battleship spawns and more 'mining with guns' will have a negative effect on the market.

Discuss.

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.03.02 09:11:00 - [2]
 

Well, it could perhaps lower the price on low end minerals a bit. If that is good or bad is up to you.

Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
Posted - 2009.03.02 09:14:00 - [3]
 


MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2009.03.02 09:15:00 - [4]
 

drones dorp minerals as loot.

battleships do not. (not to the degree rats do)

so I don't think it will be too big an issue.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.03.02 09:16:00 - [5]
 

I don't see a large number of low sec ratters recovering the BS drops to sell them or recycle them. So probably not a big influence on the mineral market for that. It is possible it will add a isk faucet, but again it will not be a particularly large one (I don't know anyone farming the low sec belts, and I doubt we will see much people doing that even after the change).

The Snowman
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.03.02 09:18:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Khaelis
Maybe that's also the cause for the astronomical prices of veldspar/tritatium.
The reason Trit is suddenly so high is because they stopped NPC's from selling shuttles. you could reprocess those shuttles into trit, and because NPC's sold the shuttles (infinate supply) there was an artificial cap on trit prices.

I cant see BS's in low sec effecting mineral prices at all, people dont really do much ratting in lowsec, too much activity there now since Faction warfare, I feel the BS's is just gonna be noob bait. If anything might reduce price on salvage, since belt rat NPC's are more fruitfull than Mission rats.

Ratchman
Posted - 2009.03.02 09:27:00 - [7]
 

Like any economy, the market should right itself when people start noticing the Veldspar is the most valuable ore. When they do, the miners attention should switch from the high-end ores back to the lower end.

Why Tritanium has been so high for a while now is because people haven't identified this gap in the market yet. Perhaps this is because people are reluctant to 'go back' to what they used to mine as a noob. This 'ore snobbery' could be costing them profit. Of course, trit can be obtained from most ores, but it won't be as concentrated as it is in Veldspar.

Although older established players are missing out on what could potentially be the most profitable ore, new starters who sideline in mining are having a bonanza, and able to make much greater profits than they would have done this time last year. This should let them progress up the career ladder quicker than previous 'generations'.

On the flip side, I do see this situation changing on the implementation of Apocrypha. After all, there will be an influx of players starting for the first time, and what are they going to mine to earn their money? There will be mission runners, but there will be plenty of miners too. With this fresh influx, I see the price of tritanium coming back down again.

As with the battleship spawns in lowsec, I don't think it will really unbalance the market. It may lower the price of certain modules, but the increased availability may sell more. It's difficult to say in such a complex system, but CCP could always change the loot tables if it does unbalance things.

Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Ammatar Free Corps
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.02 09:35:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
I don't see a large number of low sec ratters recovering the BS drops to sell them or recycle them. So probably not a big influence on the mineral market for that. It is possible it will add a isk faucet, but again it will not be a particularly large one (I don't know anyone farming the low sec belts, and I doubt we will see much people doing that even after the change).


The availability of stations in low-sec plus the overall higher percentage of income tied into loot drops (AFAIK a 500k battleship drops pretty much the same stuff as a 1.7m one) should favor an increased amount of salvaging.

Gonada
The Scope
Posted - 2009.03.02 11:00:00 - [9]
 

the players are there to balance out mineral issues, not CCP

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.03.02 11:21:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Ratchman
Like any economy, the market should right itself when people start noticing the Veldspar is the most valuable ore. When they do, the miners attention should switch from the high-end ores back to the lower end.



Most miners know perfectly that veldspar is the most rewarding empire ore as raw numbers.
There are some reason why it is not mined to the point of bringing the price of tritanium down:

1) veldspar availability: most belts near major trade hubs or production hubs (often the same thing) are stripped clear regularly and don't cover the demand;

2) tritanium/veldspar volume vs gain moving it: to move a sufficient quantity of tritanium (even worse if it is in the unrefined veldspar form) to get a decent return you need to move millions of units.
A iteron 5, expanded, rigged and with GSC move about 4 millions unit of tritanium. A 0,50 isk difference between mining station and market hub where you can sell the mineral mean that the hauler will get 2 millions for moving his cargo.
If the operation require more than 4 jump the return is very low.
Using a freighter allow a player to move larger quantities, but rarely they are available in a single system.
So the cost of transportation as a large impact on the tritanium price.

Ratchman
Posted - 2009.03.02 11:34:00 - [11]
 

Most miners know perfectly that veldspar is the most rewarding empire ore as raw numbers.
There are some reason why it is not mined to the point of bringing the price of tritanium down:

1) veldspar availability: most belts near major trade hubs or production hubs (often the same thing) are stripped clear regularly and don't cover the demand;

2) tritanium/veldspar volume vs gain moving it: to move a sufficient quantity of tritanium (even worse if it is in the unrefined veldspar form) to get a decent return you need to move millions of units.
A iteron 5, expanded, rigged and with GSC move about 4 millions unit of tritanium. A 0,50 isk difference between mining station and market hub where you can sell the mineral mean that the hauler will get 2 millions for moving his cargo.
If the operation require more than 4 jump the return is very low.
Using a freighter allow a player to move larger quantities, but rarely they are available in a single system.
So the cost of transportation as a large impact on the tritanium price.


Firstly, people need to move a bit further out from the hubs. That is where the newer members mine.

Secondly, freighters get a bit usage in highsec then. Now there's the Orca as well, this does help. Large scale operations have the ability to find a relatively quiet area and farm it, and the logistics to transport it back to the hubs.

And tritanium does come from other sources as well.

Maybe a bit more Veldspar needs to be seeded in highsec, but I can't believe the whole of Empire is completely bone dry all the time.

Veldsper
Posted - 2009.03.02 11:57:00 - [12]
 

meybye i answer your question why people dont mine veldspar, becasue i am miner who dont mine.
eve if trit is for 4.20 it is not big cash heaving hulk with rigs and exhumers for 5 and using t2 crystals.
mining is just waste of my time.
it is not true that mining veldspar is less activity then mission running, because in empire asteroids are small and hulk eats
it very fast. hulk warps very slow - slower then frigher.

so if you want to be a miner you need to have good ship, good skils, and you earn notheing :)
so i do missions as all other people, and many old miners too.

so - if you want trit - MINE IT YOURSELF

Locii
Posted - 2009.03.02 12:14:00 - [13]
 

Are 0.0 bs's and bounties getting buffed too? as if the are not, this is yet another reason for people not to go to 0.0

Wet Ferret
Posted - 2009.03.02 12:29:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Locii
Are 0.0 bs's and bounties getting buffed too? as if the are not, this is yet another reason for people not to go to 0.0


The occasional 500k BS in low-sec isn't going to make much of a difference. It's not like there's going to be triple 1.8m spawns or anything.

Khaelis
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.03.02 12:55:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Khaelis on 02/03/2009 12:57:32
Originally by: Veldsper
meybye i answer your question why people dont mine veldspar, becasue i am miner who dont mine.
eve if trit is for 4.20 it is not big cash heaving hulk with rigs and exhumers for 5 and using t2 crystals.
mining is just waste of my time.
it is not true that mining veldspar is less activity then mission running, because in empire asteroids are small and hulk eats
it very fast. hulk warps very slow - slower then frigher.

so if you want to be a miner you need to have good ship, good skils, and you earn notheing :)
so i do missions as all other people, and many old miners too.

so - if you want trit - MINE IT YOURSELF


I'm sorry, what?

Thanks for the links Roy batty, I had a quick read over them. Obviously CCP have some control over the value of items since they control the availability and difficulty of getting that item.

I guess some of you are right about a few lowsec BSs not having too much of an impact on the market, I guess i'm more worried about general market balance. That and the fact that almost 40-50% of minerals are found in loot and drones.

Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group
Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.02 22:11:00 - [16]
 

IMO, the real effect will be felt in the salvage market -- its not unheard of for a single belt BS to drop 20+ pieces of salvage.


 

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