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Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2010.04.29 13:59:00 - [541]
 

Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 29/04/2010 14:15:27
Quote:
I'd love to see rockets go the same way as torps and get a massive increase in damage with the trade off that you're not going to hit for full damage unless you've brought webby friends.


Good dps with good explosion velocity = fine.

Buffing DPS so high that it compensates for explosion velocity = 400 dps Kestrels of doom. Seriously, why is this so complicated?

Buff damage and explosion velocity so they're in proportion = simple fix that brings them in line with other frigate weapons.
If I wanted an insane damage frigate that needed tackle - guess what, they already exist. They're called stealth bombers.
On the other hand what I, and many others, want is a weapon system that hits stuff in its own size class for reasonable dps, and is in-line with the other frigate weapons, not some stupid gimmick that's like using rage ammo 100% of the time.

Quote:
it comes to something when a 20 mill isk crow has problems breaking the tank on a 500k isk frigate.


Also I just had to bring this up to have a laugh at it. Have you ever actually flown anything with light missiles? Afterburners never saved any of the frigates I met.
If you're talking from personal experience I suggest you get your skills past II.

Amberlamps
Posted - 2010.04.29 16:15:00 - [542]
 

Edited by: Amberlamps on 29/04/2010 16:16:35
Originally by: Gypsio III
Edited by: Gypsio III on 29/04/2010 08:24:51

Originally by: Amberlamps

I agree partly...

What shocked me to the core the other day was...

Sitting on the FFA1 beacon in a Cerberus then all of a sudden an Amarr t2 interceptor starts burning 5kms towards me... I'm some 170km away... I think great I'll fire the missiles at him (T2 Damage HM) by the time my missiles get close he'll be in range and then he'll be toast with that sig radius!!!

However... to my surprise I landed a whopping 2.3 damage on him... WHAT THE ****?




This is because you're a dribbling moron. You were using "T2 high damage" heavy missiles against a damn interceptor. WTF did you expect to happen, using a weapon designed to attack battlecruisers and battleships against a damn frigate?.


So with the reduction to sig radius bonus from t2 interceptor with his mwd + my missile skills. My missiles would easily have a small sig radius compare to that of his ship... He was flying directly towards me at 5kms... Yet I still only landed 2.3 damage?

You must be a dribbling moron too... You can use Torpedoes which are designed to shoot battleships against battle cruisers with full effectiveness with a TP and good skills. So now lets look at his Sig raidus vs my missile which is around 100... it isn't making sense... the explosion velocity nerfs the crap out of everything. Where as the equivalent of tracking allows a huge chance of landing a hit when someone flys directly towards you, missiles dont have the same benefit in any scenario.

So now lets look at artillery... oh wait I would one hit him even though Im using a battleship sized weapon I would still take that ship out in one hit. However missiles don't get a bonus if someone flys directly towards them... Speed + Sig Radius = Missiles do nothing. Speed + Sig Radius = AC/Hybrid/Lasers can still land high damage. It doesn't make sense as the missile directly impacting it head on would go straight through the ship.

The balance just isn't Roflkets Its generally all missiles, however it is more prevalent in roflkets.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2010.04.29 17:15:00 - [543]
 

Edited by: Gypsio III on 29/04/2010 17:27:51
Originally by: Amberlamps
So with the reduction to sig radius bonus from t2 interceptor with his mwd + my missile skills. My missiles would easily have a small sig radius compare to that of his ship... He was flying directly towards me at 5kms... Yet I still only landed 2.3 damage?


Small? Sigh. Come on. Learn how your weapons system works.

Max-skilled Fury Heavy explosion radius = 161.3 m.
Crusader signature radius with Inties V = 72 m.

The missile has over twice the radius of the Crusader. The only thing that is "small" here is your degree of competence. You are whining that a weapon system designed to be used against battlecruisers isn't very effective against interceptors. What the hell did you expect?

If you want your Cerberus to knock interceptors out of the sky with hilarious ease, use the appropriate weapon. That is, AMLs with Navy Bloodclaws. Expecting Fury Heavies to be effective against a bloody interceptor is just ******ed.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2010.04.29 18:02:00 - [544]
 

Quote:
You must be a dribbling moron too...


Please refrain from insulting people who know what they're talking about when you're the fool that tried using furies on a Crusader.

Allen Ramses
Caldari
Zombicidal Mania
Posted - 2010.04.29 22:50:00 - [545]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
What you are illustrating is your inability of comprehensive reading.
I have no inability to comprehend information. I just happen to know that your information is incorrect. When you are able to accurately separate underlying problems from by-products of said problems, you will understand. Until then, there is nothing more that I, or anyone else, can say that will make your thoughts and ideas as sound as those (like me) who are. I've already explained it before countless times to many people, most of which haven't gotten it.

I don't care whether the system is too complex, the person is unwilling to critically examine the system, or the person is unable to critically examine the system. It isn't my problem. I just wish I would remember that, so I'd spend less time arguing with someone who isn't as familiar with the language.

Not to sound (too) arrogant, that's just the way I see it.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2010.04.29 22:55:00 - [546]
 

You should team up with bellum. He is also widely misunderstood about his gallente fixes and how 4000dps megathron is not overpowered.

Braitai
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2010.04.30 00:36:00 - [547]
 

Originally by: Allen Ramses
content-less post
The changes you mentioned would take the small number of situations where a rocket boat works and make them 50% more effective, and do almost nothing to the large number of situations where you're better off equipping turret weapons.

If I'm fighting a 'sader, I've got it webbed and scrammed and I'm orbiting it at 500, it's either traveling in a straight line thereby messing with it's own tracking, or it's turning to try and reduce transversal, in which case it's velocity is lower and I'm probably doing full damage to it. 50% more damage will just mean I kill it 50% quicker.

If I'm fighting a duel prop 'ranis, I'm kiting it. It's going full speed towards me and I'm heading at full speed away from it (assuming I have enough speed to, in most cases I don't since an AB increases speed by more the amount it is reduced by a web), so it gets a MASSIVE reduction in the amount of damage it's taking. 50% more damage would make it easier, sure, but balanced? Would a Crow have a shot at killing it? No, not really, a 'ranis should win every time.

Comparing the reductions in hit rate and quality that turrets receive with regards to transversal, and the reduction in damage that rockets take due to target velocity really is like comparing apples and oranges. They are a completely separate mechanic that in practice work completely differently.

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2010.04.30 02:47:00 - [548]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington


Originally by: scunner funk

it comes to something when a 20 mill isk crow has problems breaking the tank on a 500k isk frigate.



Also I just had to bring this up to have a laugh at it. Have you ever actually flown anything with light missiles? Afterburners never saved any of the frigates I met.
If you're talking from personal experience I suggest you get your skills past II.



I'm disappointed, your posts are usually better thought out than this. I've spent much time extolling the virtues of the crow as an AF killer but it doesn't remove the fact that light missiles get a huge reduction in damage against AB frigates.

I have lvl 5 skills and while 500k isk frigate may have been an exaggeration you're talking about a weapon that is designed to kill frigates but is only fitted to ships who don't operate in web range. Try fighting another interceptor in a light missile / disruptor crow and then check your damage logs, the result is an embarrassment. Try fighting a smart AB ishkur pilot and you'll realize that he can go a looooong way before your dramatically reduced damage gets through his tank.

Some damage reduction fine but 72% damage reduction against a MWD claw? LM ships are not pwnmobiles, you have a good chance of someone hitting you with an overheated scram and pay a heavy fitting price for your range advantage (read massively reduced tank), is it asking a lot to do more than 30 DPS to targets in the same ship class as me?

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2010.04.30 11:13:00 - [549]
 

Quote:
Try fighting another interceptor...


This much I will agree on.

On the other hand, buffing light missiles in this situation would be walking a very fine line between balanced and making the Crow seriously OP. I mean consider what would happen if they hit for enough to do serious damage then factor in the huge range and lack of tracking. That could very easily go too far the other way.

While we're on this subject: another thing that'd be good is dropping the grid need from 8 to 6. 8 grid on a weapon designed for ships notoriously anemic on power is absolutely absurd, especially considering the high CPU cost they're also stuck with. Off the top of my head it's only the Crow that I've managed to make good use of the t2 launchers on as the Kestrel/Hookbill/Hawk just can't do it.

Flynn Fetladral
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2010.04.30 11:26:00 - [550]
 

Did they fix rockets today?

Krennel Darius
Caldari
EON Solutions
The Laughing Men
Posted - 2010.04.30 18:46:00 - [551]
 

Originally by: Flynn Fetladral
Did they fix rockets today?


OMG OMG.. they DID NOT FIXED ROCKETS TODAY!!

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2010.05.01 10:39:00 - [552]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington

walking a very fine line between balanced and making the Crow seriously OP

...dropping the grid need from 8 to 6. 8



I can't see LM ships becoming OP by increasing the Ev/Er a bit, the crow is so flimsy that even T1 frigs like the rifter have considerably more tank n gank if they land a scram on it. Even if you drop the grid a bit an LM kezzie isn't going to have more than a basic tank, that plus it's slow speed make it pretty vulnerable.

The only ship that might be able to field lights and a decent tank is the hawk and if there was ever a ship in need of a buff it's the hawk.

Is it obvious that I'm running out of things to say about rockets?

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2010.05.01 12:00:00 - [553]
 

Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 01/05/2010 12:03:26
Quote:
Is it obvious that I'm running out of things to say about rockets?


I think everyone is tbh, as it's been discussed to death in this thread for over a year with the closest to feedback being "we're aware of it" for a change of two goddamn numbers.

But in regards to the Crow: ok, if we accept the fact that it's going to be caught by other inties (as you're talking about tank), then even with a light missile buff it's screwed. Any of the other combat inties will murder it anyway up close, so it's back to square one without that buff being very impressive, and that's where it's walking the fine line.

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2010.05.02 13:30:00 - [554]
 

Billy Crocket had a rocket in his pocket but when he tried to knock it he couldn't find the socket.

Zachary Sikorsky
Posted - 2010.05.02 13:57:00 - [555]
 

Sry pals, don't think we'll ever see any fix. There was this optimistic "We'll probably not be able to get it in before Dominion" to ... silence... And lo and behold soon another expansion, walking in stations will be awesome. Hopefully they will give lolkets some nice skins so we can carry them around the lobby and use them for something.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2010.05.02 14:09:00 - [556]
 

Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 02/05/2010 14:09:59
Originally by: Zachary Sikorsky
Sry pals, don't think we'll ever see any fix. There was this optimistic "We'll probably not be able to get it in before Dominion" to ... silence... And lo and behold soon another expansion, walking in stations will be awesome. Hopefully they will give lolkets some nice skins so we can carry them around the lobby and use them for something.



Scope News - date - 14th January 2020
TERRORIST ATTACKS ON STATIONS CONTINUE

Shortly after the release of Incarna three days ago, a new terrorist group of unknown origin began staging a series of attacks on shops and nightclubs in stations across new Eden. Scope News has acquired exclusive interviews with several witnesses

"So there I was trying on my new uniform for the first time when I look out the window and see a Hawk hurtling into the rear of the station. It was terrifying. Local chat was just filled with spam... something about "THIS IS HOW YOU FIX A HAWK""?

"I was just chilling in the strip club when this nutter calling herself "Duchess" or something charged in and detonated a phalanx rocket she had strapped to her back, it was insane! I dived behind the bar and it must've been made of sturdy stuff but the place was trashed"

We now pass to our analyst Gypsio, who has a theory on the motivations behind this mysterious group

"It would appear to me that the terrorists motivations are in fact religiously bent. Many years ago I bore witness to an emerging cult on a forum-based chat network, but the Jovians managing the system dismissed it even as it grew in size. Now I believe they are back.
This theory would appear to be justified by their incomprehensible chant delivered with each attack, "Buffrawkets". We believe this 'Buffrawkets' is their god, and these attacks are carried out in his or her name for an unknown purpose.
At this time we have no further information"

Whoever these people are and whatever their case, we ask that all capsuleers be extra vigilant in preventing further attacks by the Buffrawkets cult.

Scope News

Amberlamps
Posted - 2010.05.02 23:20:00 - [557]
 

Edited by: Amberlamps on 02/05/2010 23:20:55
Originally by: Gypsio III
Edited by: Gypsio III on 29/04/2010 17:27:51
Originally by: Amberlamps
So with the reduction to sig radius bonus from t2 interceptor with his mwd + my missile skills. My missiles would easily have a small sig radius compare to that of his ship... He was flying directly towards me at 5kms... Yet I still only landed 2.3 damage?


Small? Sigh. Come on. Learn how your weapons system works.

Max-skilled Fury Heavy explosion radius = 161.3 m.
Crusader signature radius with Inties V = 72 m.

The missile has over twice the radius of the Crusader. The only thing that is "small" here is your degree of competence. You are whining that a weapon system designed to be used against battlecruisers isn't very effective against interceptors. What the hell did you expect?

If you want your Cerberus to knock interceptors out of the sky with hilarious ease, use the appropriate weapon. That is, AMLs with Navy Bloodclaws. Expecting Fury Heavies to be effective against a bloody interceptor is just ******ed.


So anyway... as I said I landed 2.3 damage.

So you're still saying I'm a dribbling moron that I happened to be at FFA1 and Interceptor begins to fly towards me... With Skills + implants I have my missile Exp Radius as low as possible and then I open fire. ASSUMING he has interceptor V which I doubt he did at his low age at the time. I HAD expected to land some significant damage as he was flying directly towards me.

You're saying its perfectly acceptable that with 5 fury missiles + Ship bonuses + Skills + Implants I still only managed to land 2.3 damage. You and your little friend are both unable to comprehend that that is completely ludicrous. It's not the fact my larger ammo type aren't landing the hits I wanted them to. Its the fact that 2.3 damage is the outcome of 5 furys... However If I was using any other weapon system It would hit a huge amount. Specifically Artillery would one hit a crusader.

So before you once again spout out your personal attacks about me being a moron and telling me to use the correct weapon system. I hit UNDER 0.1% of my total volley damage. Of course that includes resists, however it shows how ludicrous that is. Where as most other weapon types (non missiles) would hit a drastically higher proportion of their damage as the ship was flying directly towards them.

Without personal insults or any obvious advice on changing weapon.... Tell me how that seems to be viably fair? The impact alone of the missile should account for more than that.

So... Gunnery - Tracking, Missiles - Explosion Velocity. Tracking 100% 0ms trav/rads-1 when someone is flying directly at you... tracking is out the window. Explosion velocity someone flys directly towards me... I'm always effected no matter what.

Of course we can't have match for match otherwise there wouldn't be differences with our weapon types. However there is an obvious flaw in this, which the smallest missile type is still effected by such speed, where as small turrets can pretty much track anything within reason. Even large turrets can hit interceptors with extraordinary damage if there is no tracking involved.

Like I said... No personal insults this time.

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Quote:
You must be a dribbling moron too...


Please refrain from insulting people who know what they're talking about when you're the fool that tried using furies on a Crusader.


I suppose you've never been in that situation when you've just fired at someone for the sake of it. Of course not, you're perfect.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2010.05.03 02:07:00 - [558]
 

Quote:
So... Gunnery - Tracking, Missiles - Explosion Velocity. Tracking 100% 0ms trav/rads-1 when someone is flying directly at you... tracking is out the window. Explosion velocity someone flys directly towards me... I'm always effected no matter what.


You do realise this works both ways? No wait of course you don't. That's why I'm going to spell this out for you using nice simple words.

Let's take an equivilent for that Cerb - a 720mm fitted Hurricane with tremor ammo fitted. That Crusader starts approaching, but oh look - this pilot has some transversal. Those 720s miss every shot. Sader gets in close and things get steadily worse from there.

Now let's take a missile boat that has somebody competant flying it. That person promptly loads up navy ammo or precisions, and with the now drastically reduced velocity of the frigate thanks to orbiting (without factoring in scram and/or web) hits every shot for reasonable damage.
And don't even get me started on what assault launchers do to frigates. That fight is only going one way.

So to answer your childish question of how it's fair: Guns and missiles are different weapon systems that have their own seperate pros and cons in different situations. For a straight line approach with a smaller target, guns have the advantage. For a close up orbit with a smaller target, missiles (if you're using the right type) have the advantage. How big this advantage is depends entirely on the circumstances and whether the pilot of either ship is an idiot.

But I would now like to ask that you take this fail to another thread, as this one is for fixing rockets and not an outlet for your dismal understanding of game mechanics. (And/or thinly veiled attempt at getting Caldari turned into unstoppable pwnmobiles).

Braitai
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2010.05.03 02:11:00 - [559]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
"I was just chilling in the strip club when this nutter calling herself "Duchess" or something charged in and detonated a phalanx rocket she had strapped to her back, it was insane! I dived behind the bar and it must've been made of sturdy stuff but the place was trashed"
I don't know why this situation would scare anyone.. all you'd need to do is jog at a brisk pace and you'd be fine.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2010.05.03 11:12:00 - [560]
 

Originally by: Braitai
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
"I was just chilling in the strip club when this nutter calling herself "Duchess" or something charged in and detonated a phalanx rocket she had strapped to her back, it was insane! I dived behind the bar and it must've been made of sturdy stuff but the place was trashed"
I don't know why this situation would scare anyone.. all you'd need to do is jog at a brisk pace and you'd be fine.


...

Touché Shocked

Captain Muscles
Caldari
Vindictive Bastards
Posted - 2010.05.03 12:29:00 - [561]
 

BUFFRAWKETS!!!!

*pop*

Alright, well... I'm gonna go get a shower now. Oh, and just in cause you guys forget the terror I have instilled in your hearts with my fearful demonstration, I will be back tomorrow. Same time, same place.

Mohenna
Caldari
Knights of the Dark
Posted - 2010.05.03 15:52:00 - [562]
 

Well, usual trolling aside, it's clear that there are players with different expectations from rockets. Some would like the torpedo approach, of needing a friend with a web or two. Some would like the solo approach. As always there's some who would be ok with a combination - a small increase in both values. If you try and consider both sides of the matter you'll see that there are some good reasons for both arguments.

Might it be that CCP keeps delaying because they themselves can't decide what the rockets should become of these two possibilities??

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2010.05.03 16:43:00 - [563]
 

Quote:
If you try and consider both sides of the matter you'll see that there are some good reasons for both arguments.


There really aren't. It's straightforward: make rockets on par with other frigate weapons. The torpedo approach is utterly ******ed for three reasons:

1. We already have torpedos, and frigates that fire them. We don't need a cheap knock-off of them.
2. Ever heard of the Retribution? It's one of the least popular frigates in the game with a miniscule (arguably non existant) niché because it needs people to tackle for it. Repeating this mistake on rocket using ships would be further breaking what's already broken.
3. Most importantly, this would utterly screw game and racial balance. If rockets were a specialised weapon incapable of hitting, say, cruisers and below without a web, this would create effectively a whole new ship type - and as Gallente totally lack a rocket using ship and Minnie only have the lolworthy Breacher, it's a ship type denied to two out of four races.

This gets even more ridiculous if it's just frigates they're incapable of hitting. Having to bring multiple ships to gank a single frigate is stupid on so many levels I don't even know where to start.

So no, there really is no good reason for "torp-rockets". It'd be the equivilent of taking autocannons and nerfing the tracking to cruiser levels. I imagine that'd kick up quite a ****storm and it's a dumb idea for the same reason as torp-ckets.

Amberlamps
Posted - 2010.05.04 00:17:00 - [564]
 

Edited by: Amberlamps on 04/05/2010 00:18:46
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington


So to answer your childish question of how it's fair: Guns and missiles are different weapon systems that have their own seperate pros and cons in different situations. For a straight line approach with a smaller target, guns have the advantage. For a close up orbit with a smaller target, missiles (if you're using the right type) have the advantage. How big this advantage is depends entirely on the circumstances and whether the pilot of either ship is an idiot..


So... Close up using the right would have to AML correct even though I've not once mentioned them in my previous posts? Not the Roflket you'd expect to have to use for short range small engagements. That is because explosion is completely ****ed. So I need to fit my Caracal with AML to do damage to any frigates, because the frigates with missiles can't do damage equal damage to their own class.

About your argument about gunnery with transversal. Load up EveHQ Load up the tracking addon and test it for yourself in different scenarios. Apply it to the game and it works a hell of a lot better using turrets that missiles trying to hit someone at speed.

You do realise this barely works both ways? No wait of course you don't. That's why I'm going to spell this out for you using nice simple words.

So we have an interceptor flying directly towards me... woot massive damage from my artillerys... Ok well as expected. Same scenario... missiles = Woah wtflowdps?

So with a little trav, only a little atm... Still woot massive damage with the turret... Oh **** same woah wtflowdps from the missiles as always as the speed is exactly the same.

Increase the traversal - A little lower damage from the turrets however you're still actually doing some significant damage... Oh wait I can also fit a module to enhance this "tracking" Sweet!

Same scenario missiles... Oh wait still wtflowdps...

Wait a second its always going to be wtflowdps... I have no counter, no modules and no manoeuvres.

Interceptor gets in close and orbits... Turrets had a chance to kill it and most likely would of killed it. Missiles had no chance and even during orbit they still have no chance to land anything painful.

End of the day, Explosion velocity sucks ass it needs balancing issues.. A Turret ship has the ability to manoeuvre in such a way to decrease the traversal however a missile ship once again has no advantage...

Not only do missiles users have the incredible scenario of having a non functioning frigate based weapon system, we also have to wait ludicrous amounts of time in some cases for our missiles to land. Of course that is another matter due to the fact "missiles started to act strange" when they doubled their speed.


Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2010.05.04 00:39:00 - [565]
 

I repeat: your hilarious incompetancy is a matter for another thread. Please post your whineage as such in features and suggestions, and not in the thread dedicated to fixing rockets.

Dreed Roberts
Posted - 2010.05.04 01:49:00 - [566]
 

Originally by: Amberlamps
Edited by: Amberlamps on 04/05/2010 00:18:46
stuff.....


ok I shouldn't do this but I think you need some help.

Firstly AML is the appropriate anti frigate weapon to fit on a CRUISER/BATTLECRUISER you have the cpu and powergrid so you fit them ok?

Secondly missile explosion velocity is not the only factor that effects missile damage. sig radius explosion radius ratio is also important.

In actual game mechanics once your target is going SLOWER than the explosion velocity there is no more DPS gain by further slowing that target. The same DOES NOT apply to sig radius : explosion velocity. Even after your target has a larger sig radius than your explosion radius further increase will add to your dps until you are doing max damage.

Guess what? there is a module that increases your opponents sig radius. GASP! just like there is a module that increases your tracking if your using guns. So yeah dude really, go spend some time with the formulae have a good hard look at them and you will gain an understanding of how it all works.


P.S using furies on an interceptor really aint going to work, now if we were having the same discussion where you had the same results with precision missiles....well we wouldn't be having that discussion cause you would have done a crapload more damage to them.

Baillif
AQUILA INC
Posted - 2010.05.04 07:23:00 - [567]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 02/05/2010 14:09:59
Originally by: Zachary Sikorsky
Sry pals, don't think we'll ever see any fix. There was this optimistic "We'll probably not be able to get it in before Dominion" to ... silence... And lo and behold soon another expansion, walking in stations will be awesome. Hopefully they will give lolkets some nice skins so we can carry them around the lobby and use them for something.



Scope News - date - 14th January 2020
TERRORIST ATTACKS ON STATIONS CONTINUE

Shortly after the release of Incarna three days ago, a new terrorist group of unknown origin began staging a series of attacks on shops and nightclubs in stations across new Eden. Scope News has acquired exclusive interviews with several witnesses

"So there I was trying on my new uniform for the first time when I look out the window and see a Hawk hurtling into the rear of the station. It was terrifying. Local chat was just filled with spam... something about "THIS IS HOW YOU FIX A HAWK""?

"I was just chilling in the strip club when this nutter calling herself "Duchess" or something charged in and detonated a phalanx rocket she had strapped to her back, it was insane! I dived behind the bar and it must've been made of sturdy stuff but the place was trashed"

We now pass to our analyst Gypsio, who has a theory on the motivations behind this mysterious group

"It would appear to me that the terrorists motivations are in fact religiously bent. Many years ago I bore witness to an emerging cult on a forum-based chat network, but the Jovians managing the system dismissed it even as it grew in size. Now I believe they are back.
This theory would appear to be justified by their incomprehensible chant delivered with each attack, "Buffrawkets". We believe this 'Buffrawkets' is their god, and these attacks are carried out in his or her name for an unknown purpose.
At this time we have no further information"

Whoever these people are and whatever their case, we ask that all capsuleers be extra vigilant in preventing further attacks by the Buffrawkets cult.

Scope News


I was there and survived the rocket explosion by running on foot and this was enough to speed tank the explosion. Only my ass hairs were singed.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2010.05.04 08:11:00 - [568]
 

Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 04/05/2010 08:11:47
Originally by: Amberlamps

stuff



1. this is ROCKET FIX thread not MISSILE WHINE thread
2. what Duchess said: you have NO CLUE how missile system works. Go educate yourself before you throw some stupid arguments
3. go educate yourself about strengths and weaknesses of each weapon systems - as it seems you dont even know this
4. you too can go and pair up with bellum for some "gallente fix" or "caldari fix". Here i even come up with an idea for you: "missiles always hit for full damage !!!", but go and do this in another thread. Thank you.


EDIT:
@ Mohenna. Pretty much what Duchess said. We already have missile system that NEEDS another ship with 1-2 webs and painters to kill frigs (hell... to kill cruisers). And there is absolutely no point in doubling up that role to rocket ships.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2010.05.04 12:29:00 - [569]
 

Originally by: Dreed Roberts

Stuff




Well said, but please stop feeding this troll. It won't help if they're allowed to completely derail the thread.

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2010.05.04 20:08:00 - [570]
 

The "torpedo solution" involves giving rocket ships a similar level of paper DPS to that of blasters and is named after the changes they made to torps in QR, it has nothing at all to do with making rockets in to anti cruiser weapons. I like this solution and to explain why I'll start with this statement:

"Rocket ships should be able to compete with but not be more powerful than their turret counterparts."

(TL;DR If you only increase Ev and Er rockets will suck monkey balls against AF's or other well tanked frigates)

There's two ways to make rockets more powerful, you can either increase the hit quality (increase Ev/Er) or you can increase the base damage. Neither of these choices are perfect and will have different effects depending on which ship classes you look at:

Rockets Vs Interceptors:
Against small, fast frigates an increase in hit quality will have more impact than an increase in base damage. This is because if you have a paper dps of 100 but are are only doing 25 dps to the target then doubling the damage to 200 paper dps only increases the applied damage to 50 dps, this still leaves you with a big deficit compared to the dps a claw or taranis can dish out.

If we take the same rocket ship doing 100 dps on paper but instead of doubling the base damage we increase the hit quality to the point where no web is needed to hit an interceptor for full damage the effective DPS is 100.

Against small, fast frigates increasing the hit quality will buff rockets more than an increase in base damage would.

Rockets Vs AF's:
Against relatively big, slow frigates the situation is reversed. If the rocket ship gets its base dps doubled from 100 to 200 but still has the current Ev and Er chances are you'll be doing over 150 applied dps in a combat situation. If instead of doubling the damage you increase the Ev and Er to the point where you can hit interceptors without using a web, the rocket ship will be doing 100 applied dps against an AF.

Against big, slow frigates increasing the base damage will buff rockets more than an increase in hit quality would.

I'm sure you all understand the above concepts, it's not rocket science or anything. Things get a little more complicated once you start doing turret comparisons however. A turret interceptor involved in a high speed dogfight with another ceptor will have massive fluctuations in its applied dps and can easily lose half its paper dps to tracking and falloff. The same interceptor fighting an AF should lose way less dps due to its ability to keep at its optimal range.

While the dps turrets lose to tracking and falloff is going to vary greatly dependent on the game situation it's true to say that smaller, faster ships will take less turret damage than bigger, slower ships but a smart pilot can manipulate transversal to their advantage. This is the main reason for the superiority of turrets over rockets and brings me back to the original statement, "rocket ships should be able to compete with but not be more powerful than their turret counterparts."

If you don't increase the raw damage of rocket ships to the point where they are comparable to turrets then they will always suck against AFs, if you do increase the damage to make them competitive against AFs you can not increase Ev/Er too much or rockets will become overpowered. The problem is that rockets do consistent damage irrespective of angular velocity so pilots have no way of manipulating their opponent to increase their DPS, combine this with the massive variations in speed between different frigates and it becomes clear the only way you can bring rockets in to line with turrets is to increase their DPS and force rocket users to carry a web.


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