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CCP Fallout

Posted - 2009.02.18 12:50:00 - [1]
 

One of the biggest complaints new players have when they first enter New Eden is how difficult it is for them to get their bearings. With Apocrypha, we've greatly improved the new player experience. CCP Fear's newest blog, "Your Revamped Rookie," gives us all the details on the changes coming to the game. From character creation (goodbye complicated UI and career choices), to skills and attributes (hello attribute respects), the NPE will help ease new players into the game and even affect old players as well.

You can read all about it here..

minuseb
Posted - 2009.02.18 12:51:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: minuseb on 18/02/2009 12:56:27
1st !

nice changes
:( so we will be able to redistribute attribute points only once a year :(

Braaage
Ministry of Craft
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:00:00 - [3]
 

You state attributes can be changed once per year, it was every 6 months on Sisi - which is it?

Also are there any plans on increasing the starting ISK since you can't buy any skill with 5,000 ISK you get once started.

UVPhoenix2
Rim Collection RC
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:03:00 - [4]
 

Good.

Vint Rotach
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:03:00 - [5]
 

(Forum FTL)

Any changes to the intro text about what each race is? I get lots of people saying "OMG too many caldari", "you chose caldari cos its easy mode", "carebear!".

When i picked caldari, the intro text just sounded cool to me, and the other new players ive chatted to chose caldari for the same reason.

So any change to balance that?

CCP Fear

Posted - 2009.02.18 13:14:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: CCP Fear on 18/02/2009 13:16:29
Originally by: Braaage
You state attributes can be changed once per year, it was every 6 months on Sisi - which is it?

Also are there any plans on increasing the starting ISK since you can't buy any skill with 5,000 ISK you get once started.


Things on Sisi change. Sisi should have the current and correct version up now.

New players get 2 respecs
All other players get 1
Cost is 0 ISK
1 year cooldown timer

No plan on increasing the starter ISK, we are however looking at rewards for the early days. We do not want to increase the starter isk, as it could be exploitable quite easily.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:14:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 18/02/2009 13:15:44
Quote:

Skills received from character creation have been re-visited and removed, many of which were irrelevant to new players. Just to name one skill that a certain path could get - Who needs Siege Warfare when you are fresh out of military school? Are you going to siege a POS in your Velator?

These choices, all important, are better made once you have a true understanding of how things work in EVE. Once you know what you want to do, what you want to fly and so on, that is when you should decide on your career and skills. And it is better that you understand what the attributes do, before you start fiddling with them.


You might not need Siege Warfare(which has nothing to do with sieging POS), but there are a number of skills that everyone is going to need. Like engineering 5, and mechanic 5, etc etc etc.

As the playerbase increases in a pvp game you need to bring up the baseline or your newer players will both be hopelessly lost and hopelessly behind. This, at least, seems to be your design goals with tech 3(and other highly specialized ships and skills).

Rather than increasing your skill training time you should credit the players a number of skill points that make it easier for them to understand and get into the game.

A good candidate might be the entire learning tree. Hell, it could be your first step to removing one of the worst decisions that has ever been put into eve. Yea, newbees might start out with 1.6m SP. But who cares, none of it would be in skills that actually did anything. You would reduce one of the worst and most pointless grinds that stops new players from becoming old players and you would make training all those little skills that new players have no clue about to even make an informed decision about(how in the world do you know if the newbee will need siege warfare? At the very least nearly every 1/10 pvp characters "need" leadership 5 5/5/5/5)

Bite the bullet and make a good design choice, give newbees the full set of learning skills

edit: The homogenized skills, stats, and the ability to change stats once every year(i was really hoping for 6 months) is good. But the accelerated training time and lower total SP start point is bad and counter productive unless you're making a purpose built alt. The new player experience should not cater to people making purpose built alts.

Barbicane
TGUN Industries
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:16:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Barbicane on 18/02/2009 13:18:09

Nice!

So when will be the first chance to re-assign skill (edit:) attribute points?
Right after patch release, or will it take some time before that feature is available?

As for the new players, will you compensate going from 800k to 50k starting skill points in any way?

(Starting to train all the charisma heavy skills on my skill plan so I can get rid of those Charisma attribute points once and for all soon enough)

Mr Grimmer
Caldari
Moon Industries Liberation Front
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:22:00 - [9]
 

I thought that the 6 months period was a very good choice.

You could make a 6 month training plan (wich is not that long) to train only the skills that need perception and willpower for instance, and then have another 6 month training plan for the skills needing inteligence and memory.

1 year seem too long for a skill training plan. any chance it can get revised?

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:24:00 - [10]
 

If there are no schools, where do people end up then? Is this the end of SATI?

I noticed that by reducing the number of initial skillpoints you not only help encouraging new players to find their own path, but also hamper people trying to make a quick hauler or research alt. I like that.

Btw. the blog mentions nothing specific about accelerated training, why?

Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:33:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Mr Grimmer
I thought that the 6 months period was a very good choice.

You could make a 6 month training plan (wich is not that long) to train only the skills that need perception and willpower for instance, and then have another 6 month training plan for the skills needing inteligence and memory.

1 year seem too long for a skill training plan. any chance it can get revised?


The reasoning behind the reassignment is to help balance those that made bad decisions when they were uninformed about the consequences, not to let you 'reconfigure your brain' to taylor it to what you are currently learning. I think the 1point/year is fine, though I think older players might get an additional point per year or two of life prior to this change... but I might be biased in that regard...

UVPhoenix2
Rim Collection RC
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:38:00 - [12]
 

I have a couple questions for the developers. Will any of the upcoming changes in the next expansion include changing the primary and secondary attributes that existing skills use to calculate training time? Will any of the new skills place a little more emphasis on the Charisma attribute? I'm curious because it seems that most players plan to just rid themselves of as many Charisma points as possible due to its under use in the majority of the skill categories.

- Ian

Genya Arikaido
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:52:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Genya Arikaido on 18/02/2009 13:57:16
Quote:
Who needs Siege Warfare when you are fresh out of military school? Are you going to siege a POS in your Velator?


I'm sorry, but you fail miserably here. Siege Warfare has NOTHING to do with assaulting a POS, It's a leadership skill for fleet bonuses. ...and you're the one redoing the NPE? *shudder* l2p/gb2wow/noob/ibtl/etc... Rolling Eyes

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:57:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
stuff


i agree, make everyone start with high learning skills, their pointless time wasters that you MUST train if you plan on staying with the game. ''bla bla screws of older players etc'' i've been playing over 2 years, closing on 3, and i support just giving everyone maxed learning skills or get rid of them and give them as a base bonus or something.



and siege warfare has nothing to do with sieging pos's....Laughing

Mr Grimmer
Caldari
Moon Industries Liberation Front
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:57:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Mr Grimmer
I thought that the 6 months period was a very good choice.

You could make a 6 month training plan (wich is not that long) to train only the skills that need perception and willpower for instance, and then have another 6 month training plan for the skills needing inteligence and memory.

1 year seem too long for a skill training plan. any chance it can get revised?


The reasoning behind the reassignment is to help balance those that made bad decisions when they were uninformed about the consequences, not to let you 'reconfigure your brain' to taylor it to what you are currently learning. I think the 1point/year is fine, though I think older players might get an additional point per year or two of life prior to this change... but I might be biased in that regard...


I guess you are right, but one can dream right :)

Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:03:00 - [16]
 

Attribute respecs make me nervous in terms of what they say about EVE, so I'm glad to see them reduced to once a year. I'd almost suggest a one-time only after the two free ones given to "new" players. This lets vets fix mistakes they made early on before they really understood but maintains some more consequence for choices.

And +1 to eliminating learning skills. From a game design perspective, they're just a time sink for additional progress that everyone must make, as opposed (say) to a standings grind that one might choose to make based on particular gameplay advantages. Tedium != fun.

Revan Starstrider
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:13:00 - [17]
 

I am also wondering why you are making 5 the minimum stat for respeccing? Is this to bring Achura's in line with everyone else?

Washell Olivaw
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:14:00 - [18]
 

CCP Fear in charge of the learning cliff. I like it. Twisted Evil

Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:18:00 - [19]
 

Fear the learning cliff!

Thenoran
Caldari
Tranquility Industries
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:27:00 - [20]
 

Wow, starting at just 50k skillpoints Surprised
Does that mean though that new players will take a couple of months to get their learning skills up? Razz

When Apocrypha comes out, can we respec then, or does the 1 year timer start then?

Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:31:00 - [21]
 

Quote:
As before, we will have 10 missions per career, which will teach you the basics of Industry, Business and Military occupations.

Huh? Was it like this last april, when I started? I wanted to mine (me prospector), but I was offered kill missions.

Richard Bashir
Gallente
Eve Engineering Logistics
Eve Engineering
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:34:00 - [22]
 

So, one can train a charisma +1 learning skill to be able to assigned it to memory?

With a new character: Invest all possible attrib points to charisma & willpower, then train all charisma/willpower learning skills. When you have done that, move all unneeded attribute points away to intelligence and memory. Train all relevant learning skill's again. Then after that redistribute at will.

Not saying its a bad thing, just a bit daft...

I can't remember which attributes is needed for Cybernetics, but add that to the mix above to lvl 5... Rolling Eyes

Jayn Cobb
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:42:00 - [23]
 

Sounds good so far.

I started playing 6 months after launch and the starting tutorial, while enough to get you out of the station, barely made you functional in the game.

I'll never forget finding out 3 days into it that you had to actually right-click your skills and select "train". I couldn't figure out why my skills weren't increasing with all the flying, shooting & mining I was doing.

CCP has learned alot since then, thankfully.

And yes, I put all my attribute points into Charisma. Very Happy

CCP Fear

Posted - 2009.02.18 14:46:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Genya Arikaido
Edited by: Genya Arikaido on 18/02/2009 13:57:16
Quote:
Who needs Siege Warfare when you are fresh out of military school? Are you going to siege a POS in your Velator?


I'm sorry, but you fail miserably here. Siege Warfare has NOTHING to do with assaulting a POS, It's a leadership skill for fleet bonuses. ...and you're the one redoing the NPE? *shudder* l2p/gb2wow/noob/ibtl/etc... Rolling Eyes



My point is that it's a skill that is irrelevant to a new player. The connection to sieging a pos is entirely on the name but not the skill.

Arous Drephius
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:46:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Richard Bashir
So, one can train a charisma +1 learning skill to be able to assigned it to memory?

With a new character: Invest all possible attrib points to charisma & willpower, then train all charisma/willpower learning skills. When you have done that, move all unneeded attribute points away to intelligence and memory. Train all relevant learning skill's again. Then after that redistribute at will.

Not saying its a bad thing, just a bit daft...

I can't remember which attributes is needed for Cybernetics, but add that to the mix above to lvl 5... Rolling Eyes


On SiSi you can only move your base attribute points around, not the ones gained from skills/implants.

CCP Fear

Posted - 2009.02.18 14:48:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Arous Drephius
Originally by: Richard Bashir
So, one can train a charisma +1 learning skill to be able to assigned it to memory?

With a new character: Invest all possible attrib points to charisma & willpower, then train all charisma/willpower learning skills. When you have done that, move all unneeded attribute points away to intelligence and memory. Train all relevant learning skill's again. Then after that redistribute at will.

Not saying its a bad thing, just a bit daft...

I can't remember which attributes is needed for Cybernetics, but add that to the mix above to lvl 5... Rolling Eyes


On SiSi you can only move your base attribute points around, not the ones gained from skills/implants.


Yes let's be clear on that; you can only respec your base attributes. Learning skills + implants remain as is.

Washell Olivaw
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:50:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 18/02/2009 14:50:59
Originally by: Richard Bashir
So, one can train a charisma +1 learning skill to be able to assigned it to memory?


No 39 base attributes points, 5 attributes, 5 minimum/15 maximum in each attribute is 39 - 25 = 14 base attributes you're free to distribute.

On top of that comes a (maximum) of 10 points from learning, 5 points from implants and +10% from the actual learning skill.

So max final attribute is 15+15+10%= 33
Minimum final attribute is 5+15+10%= 22

Edit: Why 39 base attributes? Reason is lost in a dark and distant past.

Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:50:00 - [28]
 

Nice blog, thanks! But just one question: Instead of downplaying the Charisma attribute why not boost it? Would it not be better in the long run to bring it in line with the rest of the attributes? Make it useful. Balance skills so they require charisma, perhaps as a third required attribute.


Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2009.02.18 15:04:00 - [29]
 

No I didn't assign 3 points to charisma because that sounded cool. I've been playing tabletop RPGs for decades, so I already knew how useless that attribute was. ^_^

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2009.02.18 15:08:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Garia666 on 18/02/2009 15:08:37
I am getting an arcade game feeling with these changes..

altough in 03 when i created my char i indeed put allot of charisma and willpower.. which i can now change.. i actualy have no idea yet on how to feel about this change..
I also dont like being to be able to train all ships from all races.

but hey thats something else.


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