| Author |
Topic |
Kerogen Logos
Journey Construction Ltd.
Apocalypse Now. |
Posted - 2009.02.13 18:15:00 - [ 1]
keep in mind that I'm NOT concerned with damage dealing, or being able to solo. My whole purpose in asking this question is to find out which ship will be able to take a target that is either warping through a gate, or for me to warp on top of and hold, and hold him there long enough for the cavalry to arrive and kill it.
If I die, the target gets away, that's really the only reason I'm considering AFs at all.
1) Intys lock faster, that helps in the case of a gatecamp without a bubble.
2) Intys catch up faster, in the case that you find yourself on the wrong side of the gate when they warp in
3) in case you get caught by the target's turrets, the AF stand a better chance of taking a direct hit.
4) Intys are more likey to simply avoid the incoming fire
5) Intys will have an easier time with cap, as they get the cap use reduction when using prop jamming modules...disruptors aren't exactly light on cap.
I'd like to hear people's opinions on which class of ship are best, and if you'd like to offer advice on the "uberest" ship hull ever, I'd be up for opinions. So far, I'm leaning Crow, but the Stiletto has that extra midslot... |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E |
Posted - 2009.02.13 18:18:00 - [ 2]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 13/02/2009 18:19:26
Depending on how fast the cavalry is you are prolly best off in a properly fit vigil.
Ceptors arent _that_ great for initial tackle anymore, they are still very useful but do not justify the 30mill ship for such tasks as a t1 frig can do it almost as good.
Once you didnt have to worry too much about incoming damage, but these times are gone and it is more than likely your inty will tackle long enough for friends to arrive but will not survive. |
Cupdeez
Out of Order
|
Posted - 2009.02.13 18:36:00 - [ 3]
If you good in a ceptor it's the best ship for staying ahead of the fleet and tackling ships.
My ceptor goes about 6k in orbit and I can web/warp scrable. I also warp faster then 99% of the ships in the game so I can catch a target running.
The ceptor if setup correctly can speed tank just about any ship. Also the lock time for a ceptor on a pod/shuttle is almost instant. |
pushdogg
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
|
Posted - 2009.02.13 18:53:00 - [ 4]
interceptor, all the way, and the stilletto is a great choice, you can fit 2x eccm(pesky falcons) and still have proper tackle to make sure everything goes off without a hitch, smoetimes even tackle the falcon:) |
Radcjk
Failed Diplomacy
B A N E |
Posted - 2009.02.13 18:59:00 - [ 5]
 Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Ceptors arent _that_ great for initial tackle anymore
Incorrect, in my opinion. Interceptors sole role is to get the initial tackle, and then get the **** out of dodge once the support has moved into to effective range. That being the case they have higher odds of surviving in this scenario against most, but not all, ship types. While an AF is hardier, the inty has better of catching the target and avoiding damage out right until support has arrived. The only time this isn't the case is when tackiling battleships that have a heavy nuet' / warrior II combination. Most Battleships with a 125m3 drone bay are going to go for the classic 5 heavy drones. Battleships with the 75m3 drone bay will often carry a mix of mediums and lights, and in my expierience as an inty pilot, always cause me more trouble because of this. Also, Dominix are bad mkay. An assault ship typically survives tackiling one of these better, but only if you're a wolf / jag, or have enough cap boosting to fire your weapons and eat the warriors faster than they eat you. I will agree with Lilith Velkor in that there are several t1 frigs that are cost effective in this role, but the inty (greatly reduced though it may be this patch) is still the king of the fast tackle. |
Kerogen Logos
Journey Construction Ltd.
Apocalypse Now. |
Posted - 2009.02.13 19:06:00 - [ 6]
yeah, I'm currently using either a vigil (for speed on frigs) or a merlin (4 mids) for T1 tackle. I plan on keeping these around for when I'm tackling...and whoever thinks that intys cost 30M...I'll be happy to sell you fit intys for 20M...as many as you'd like. |
Grista
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute |
Posted - 2009.02.13 19:23:00 - [ 7]
I'll also sing the praises of the Stiletto (fit mine with web, disruptor, and scram), but will note the underrated Claw.
The Claw is the fastest ship in EVE, to my knowledge. There is nothing better for getting warp-in's on a hostile sniping group. As a tackler itself, well 2 mids is all you need to know. |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E |
Posted - 2009.02.13 20:01:00 - [ 8]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 13/02/2009 20:05:14Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 13/02/2009 20:03:41Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 13/02/2009 20:02:24 Originally by: Kerogen Logos
yeah, I'm currently using either a vigil (for speed on frigs) or a merlin (4 mids) for T1 tackle. I plan on keeping these around for when I'm tackling...and whoever thinks that intys cost 30M...I'll be happy to sell you fit intys for 20M...as many as you'd like.
I know they are 20mill, but dont forget the fittings, that is another 10mill. No way I'm buying a 20mill frig and put ****ty t1 mods on it. About claw as a tackler, I'll just say 20km lockrange ftl. Nice for inty dogfights, but worthless as a tackler as you'll be very close and still lose point more often than not. Stiletto on the other hand is great (maybe best) tackler inty, but still the investment is kinda huge compared to what a vigil can do for 3mill isk. Also I should note I personally do fly interceptors instead of t1 frigs, but mainly because of the extra effectivity not because they are cost effective. |
Kerogen Logos
Journey Construction Ltd.
Apocalypse Now. |
Posted - 2009.02.13 20:45:00 - [ 9]
I don't know where you think interceptors cost 20M for the hull...I was ripping you off by demanding 20M...and the offer was a joke...but if you'll pay me 20M for one, hell I'm in. Raptors are 7M, Stilettos are 12M, and everything else falls in between...learn to play the market a bit, and maybe your wallet will thank you.
And 3M for a vigil? Seriously? 300k gets you the hull...200k will get you a good fit. |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E |
Posted - 2009.02.14 10:19:00 - [ 10]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 14/02/2009 10:20:53 Originally by: Kerogen Logos
And 3M for a vigil? Seriously? 300k gets you the hull...200k will get you a good fit.
Yea, its worth using t2 mods imo, not needed though. Ofc you can buy the ceptor for less than 20, but prices kinda spiked a bit lately, if it dies and you need a new one asap thats an issue. Lets put it this way, for small gangs ceptors are great, but once it gets messy and you cant do much about getting instapopped at any time its prolly better to go with a cheap frig. |
Rennion |
Posted - 2009.02.14 10:23:00 - [ 11]
Originally by: Grista
I'll also sing the praises of the Stiletto (fit mine with web, disruptor, and scram), but will note the underrated Claw.
The Claw is the fastest ship in EVE, to my knowledge. There is nothing better for getting warp-in's on a hostile sniping group. As a tackler itself, well 2 mids is all you need to know.
Unless something changed majorly with the QR patch then claws are actually one of the slowest while on MWD thanks to their fat arse mass. Also as per the topic tackle in inty's, whoever said fit eccm is ******ed, whoever said they cost 30mil is ******ed. Inty's are cheap enough to be allmost throw away for anyone who does not suck at making isk, don't bother rigging them. Stiletto is good and so is the ares, malediction has ****ty lock range and raptor is a brick. Always make sure you can lock far enough to take advantage of the disrupter bonus, overheating, gang skills you will be getting and possible gang mods too. Inty's can put points on things from a loooooong way away. |
Kerogen Logos
Journey Construction Ltd.
Apocalypse Now. |
Posted - 2009.02.14 12:06:00 - [ 12]
Originally by: Rennion
Originally by: Grista
I'll also sing the praises of the Stiletto (fit mine with web, disruptor, and scram), but will note the underrated Claw.
The Claw is the fastest ship in EVE, to my knowledge. There is nothing better for getting warp-in's on a hostile sniping group. As a tackler itself, well 2 mids is all you need to know.
Unless something changed majorly with the QR patch then claws are actually one of the slowest while on MWD thanks to their fat arse mass.
Also as per the topic tackle in inty's, whoever said fit eccm is ******ed, whoever said they cost 30mil is ******ed.
Inty's are cheap enough to be allmost throw away for anyone who does not suck at making isk, don't bother rigging them. Stiletto is good and so is the ares, malediction has ****ty lock range and raptor is a brick.
Always make sure you can lock far enough to take advantage of the disrupter bonus, overheating, gang skills you will be getting and possible gang mods too.
Inty's can put points on things from a loooooong way away.
Here's my problem with the Stiletto...it's got a 25km lock range...and a bonus that makes T1 disruptors have a 25km range. If you actually tried to USE that range, then you're looking at losing your lock frequently. I'd rather pick up a crow with it's 30km lock range, very nice range on missiles, and a 25km lock range for the low low cost of a T2 disruptor...which you'll get quite a few from loot in gang PVP (I know I have a few in my hangar back home). The other bonus is that if you decide to go scram instead of disruptor with the Crow, kinetic rockets actually get decent range with the 50% velocity bonus, it'll hit 15km or so. The one thing I could see the stiletto do well is scram tackling...having a 6.25 range on a T1 scram would be nice, and if you're orbiting at 6km the 25km lock range wouldn't bother you at all. You could fit a disruptor, scram, web, and MWD, or maybe scram, disruptor, MWD and AB. I could see it being flexible enough to let you do the short range tackling. But I just don't see it being better than the crow for disruptor tackling. |
Rennion |
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:00:00 - [ 13]
The stiletto has 4 midslots making it the easiest inty to fit a sensor booster too. This allows it to make full use of every disrupter increasing bonus going and still have 3 mids available like the other intys which is what makes it so great. |
Biscuit0
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:25:00 - [ 14]
Use an inty to get a warpin on a hostile fleet. THEN DROP A DICTOR ON THEY A55. |
Tzar'rim |
Posted - 2009.02.15 10:31:00 - [ 15]
Stiletto is the best tackler, increased scram range, fit a sensor booster and you can easily get up to 3k scan res. It's fast, small signature and can keep running with MWD and it's point.
|
Kerogen Logos
Journey Construction Ltd.
Apocalypse Now. |
Posted - 2009.02.15 13:14:00 - [ 16]
I just played with EFT a bit, and fitting a sensor booster to the stiletto does give a great scan res, and with a cap power relay II in the lows you've got a cap that'll last for 9 mins or so, and if you hit a nos occasionally, it'll be stable. And to be realistic...a cap that lasts 9 minutes in PVP is more than fine.
It's not quite as fast a crow, but with the sensor booster and a scan res script, it's almost twice the scan res. I might train up Minny Frig V after all... |
Gartel Reiman
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction |
Posted - 2009.02.16 18:57:00 - [ 17]
Originally by: Kerogen Logos
and if you hit a nos occasionally, it'll be stable.
If you hit a NOS occasionally, you will die because you're within 5km of an enemy ship. EFT is good for calculating cap stability etc., but you really need to interpret the viability of the fits beyond the simple figures. Interceptors cannot use NOS because of the range issues, pure and simple. (With the obvious exceptions of those that like to get up close and personal such as a Taranis - but while we're talking tacklers you want to be as far away as possible). Quote:
with a cap power relay II in the lows you've got a cap that'll last for 9 mins or so...a cap that lasts 9 minutes in PVP is more than fine.
Really, a cap that lasts for 2-3 minutes is likely to be fine too, and you'd possibly be better off fitting speed mods (more survivability and better ability to close longer ranges for the initial tackle), depending on how many you already have fitted and what the stacking penalties are looking like. If you're tackling for a fleet, you just have to get the initial tackle and hold it for long enough for your friends to take over. In a situation like this, even 30 seconds cap would be enough (though having more is good, especially if you operate a system ahead of the gang and hold the target down while they jump in and warp to you). It's not quite as fast a crow, but with the sensor booster and a scan res script, it's almost twice the scan res. I might train up Minny Frig V after all...
|
Saaya Illirie
Caldari
Absinthe Brothers
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 19:10:00 - [ 18]
Originally by: Biscuit0
Use an inty to get a warpin on a hostile fleet. THEN DROP A DICTOR ON THEY A55.
Quoted for truth. Dictors best tackle EVAR. Otherwise, get an inty, give it a sebo (inties should have sebo's anyways to boost target speed and target range, if you have 3 mids and they aren't disruptor, mwd, sebo, you're playing the game wrong and need to alt f4) The only reason why an Inty is preferable to an AF is that Inty gets a 5km or so speed, AF gets maybe 2-3km. Meaning that if there is a sniping falcon off at 150km, the inty has the best chance of getting the warpin point on the falcon. For all other tackle, dictors are preferable. |
UMEE
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 20:49:00 - [ 19]
generally, properly fit AF's have the endurance to hold a larger target down for longer. you can tank warrior II's, and have no cap issues with a cap booster and/or small nos. the additional dps is just bonus really. in addition, AF's can go fast enough, 2.5-3.5km/s, which aint bad at all.
if you get into a fast inty, and orbit at 15km and activate your disruptor... drones wont be able to catch you, but a heavy neut will pwn you. if uve got a faction disruptor, different story i guess.
so for gate camps, inties are better. if ure warpin on top of targets and need to hold em down, AF all the way. |
Dors Venabily |
Posted - 2009.02.16 21:23:00 - [ 20]
Originally by: Biscuit0
Use an inty to get a warpin on a hostile fleet. THEN DROP A DICTOR ON THEY A55.
wouldn't cov+dicto be a better combo for this ? |
Biscuit0
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2009.02.16 21:31:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: Dors Venabily
Originally by: Biscuit0
Use an inty to get a warpin on a hostile fleet. THEN DROP A DICTOR ON THEY A55.
wouldn't cov+dicto be a better combo for this ?
The question was which ship to use to tackle in nullsec, AF or Inty, and the manner in which to use them to tackle. I chose interceptors since covert ops weren't a choice, and then chose to use them only to provide a warpin for an Interdictor. Ideally yes, a covert ops would do that job well without spooking your targets. |
Dors Venabily |
Posted - 2009.02.16 21:45:00 - [ 22]
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