| Author |
Topic |
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech |
Posted - 2009.02.13 18:44:00 - [ 91]
I tried to have a closer look at the industry side of tech 3. I understand the concept, it seems not to be bad on the first glance - mind you, the concept in general, not the details. I tried to figure out what stuff would be necessary to build a Loki hull. But even with that simple task I failed. I see that Loki blueprint says 1 fullerene interlaced sheets, 10 metallofullerene plating, 10 nanowire composites. But how to get them? There is not a single hint about them. No blueprints, no reactions, no nothing. I am really ****ed off, how can we test things if there is nothing to work with??? And the market is STILL not fixed! I thought you guys wanted our feedback?! How can we give feedback when nothing is available? THERE ARE ONLY 3 WEEKS LEFT!And the **** market still does not work on Sisi. Nothing works! *takes a deep breath and goes oommmmmm* Well ... There three groups of gas, nine types of gas in total. Group 1: C50, C60, C70 Group 2: C28, C72, C84 Group 3: C32, C320, C540 There are 16 reactions in total, sorted into four groups. 1. One type of gas from group 1 necesary, output 100 units per batach 2. One or two types of gas from group 1 necessary, output 80 units 3. Two types of gas from grop 1 and 2 necessary, output 60 units 4. Two types of gas from group 2 and 3 necessary, output 20 units Without knowing how many of these outputs are necessary for the next building steps, it is impossible to evaluate further. Just one thing. If in the building process all of these outputs are necessary, it means that all gas is necessary also. That means HUGE and I mean really f***g huge logistics are necessary. I have serious doubts about these many different gases.Building basic tech3-materials (polymers) means then that 16 reactions are running. If you make the material requirements on the following blueprints (stuff like Nanowire Composites) high, then the tech3 will become insane expensive. If you make the materials requirements low, then there is incentive to search for gas because it is only necessary in few quantities. The whole concept that there are 9 different types of gas - 3 abundant, 3 normal and 3 rare distributed - might sound interesting in theory, but it won't work in practise. However, it is just an assumption that these gases are distributed unevenly, that C320 and C540 is rarest and C50 most common. Can we get clarification about gas rarities?And again, please please, can we have these wormholes on the overview that we can warp there directly without scanning them out first? There is so much to test about these wormhole space and so little time left! Without more data it is impossible to say if this whole supply chain is good or bad. The initial post looked like there was only one gas type  About gas harvesters. Please do not seed any BPO! That would ruin many explorers and will cancel a lot of fun. Instead drop 10-run (or higher runs) bpc into exploration sites in enough quantities. This way you can satisfy multiple goals with one action. |
KingCappo
Seigers of Doom
|
Posted - 2009.02.13 18:56:00 - [ 92]
Any ETA as to when the new mobile labs will be released on Sisi?
|
Horchan
Gallente |
Posted - 2009.02.13 21:14:00 - [ 93]
Edited by: Horchan on 13/02/2009 21:18:01 Originally by: Gnulpie
Stuff
I'm glad you've come to similar conclusions as I have (and thus validating that I'm not entirely insane, just mostly). While studying this all while waiting for things to be seeded, I've come up with a list of things we REALLY need to know: * What is the distribution and rarity of these gas clouds? * What is the distribution and rarity of the hybrid salvage? * How common are the Intact//Wrecked artifacts that we'll need to reverse engineer for the T3 BPC's? * What are the actual material requirements for all the hybrid components, as well as all the subcomponents and base hulls? Until we have all the relevant materials seeded (Hybrid Component BPO's, Experimental Mobile Labs or R-E slots in stations, stats for Subcomponent BPC's, etc), we're basically stuck with speculating on all of this. Edit: Noticed as I posted this a new build is up for download... Let us pray =) |
Kabeil Blackdawn
The Shadow Order
New Eden Research. |
Posted - 2009.02.13 22:16:00 - [ 94]
Originally by: Gnulpie
There is not a single hint about them. No blueprints, no reactions, no nothing.
The polymer reaction are on the market. The component bpos are on the server as: (subsystem type(offensive, propulsion...)) component (number(1,2,3)) blueprint write 'compoenent' in chat, select it, 'link type' and select the component bpo you want. The generic component seem to be for frame construction, but only number 3 is working. You can already make cost estimate by speculating on the price of gas and salvage. |
Horchan
Gallente |
Posted - 2009.02.14 00:23:00 - [ 95]
Edited by: Horchan on 14/02/2009 00:25:16
Ok, looking at the Subsystem Component blueprints, and with the current blueprints for the core T3 ships, it looks like it will take about 2783 C-50, 604 C-70, 762 C-60, 330 C-28, and 3 C-72 (give or take a bit) to manufacture a core T3 ship.
Note that by the distribution patterns we theorized on, this would mean that over 90% of the fullerite needed to make a core ship is of the "common" variety. I haven't had a chance to look at the subsystem blueprints (or even find them yet), so I can't comment on their fullerite composition/ratios.
However, as long as our hopeful assumption of which gasses are common/uncommon/rare, so far things are looking good.
Edit: I might just be missing it right now, but there appears to be no use for the 'Modified Fluid Router' and 'Neuroptical Input Matrix' Sleeper salvage. Perhaps they'll be put to use in the Subsystem construction? |
Dream Weaver |
Posted - 2009.02.14 00:49:00 - [ 96]
Any chance that a mobile refinery that can refine salvage will be added? As it is now salvage will need to be hauled from WH space to Known space to refine then hauled back to WH space to use in Reactions if setting up a POS in WH space. Even one that can only be used in WH space not known 0.0 space would be great. |
Horchan
Gallente |
Posted - 2009.02.14 01:45:00 - [ 97]
Originally by: Dream Weaver
Any chance that a mobile refinery that can refine salvage will be added? As it is now salvage will need to be hauled from WH space to Known space to refine then hauled back to WH space to use in Reactions if setting up a POS in WH space. Even one that can only be used in WH space not known 0.0 space would be great.
You've never been able to refine salvage. Also, salvage isn't used in the Polymer reactions, minerals and fullerite gas are used. The new salvage will be used to make the subsystem components (and possibly the subsystems themselves, haven't had a chance to look yet). If you mean module and ammo you've looted while there, yes, you'll have to haul it back to a station if you wish to reprocess them. Living in W-space isn't meant to be easy. |
Dream Weaver |
Posted - 2009.02.14 02:04:00 - [ 98]
Poor choice of words. I ment loot. Right now loot from ratting can't be reprocessed in a mobile refinery. What I am asking for, is a mobile refinery that can reprocess the loot. So the minerals from it can be used for the Hybrid Polymers.
I can understand not being able to refine loot in 0.0 space at a POS but hopefully we will have a method of doing so in WH space. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente |
Posted - 2009.02.14 10:11:00 - [ 99]
Originally by: El'essar Viocragh
Originally by: Venkul Mul
So essentially the best WH mining/gas harvesting ship will be a BS or a command ship. But it will be a non dedicated ship (so no bonus for mining/gas harvesting) without offensive capability and maybe even a gimped tank.
A Rokh with either 8 DCML II or 5 GCH I is probably the way to go if you mine the traditional minerals in W-space too (if you have the ability to refit in W).
But that uses up cargo when you find a route to K-space.
I know I will use stuff that I can get in K-space only to fill up my cargo once I secure a route back. Every other scrap of cargo will be filled with W-exclusive toys.
Sure, but while a 5 gas harvester Rokh will be a fine ship, with even some leftover combat capacity, its cargo space will be pitiful. Gas harvesting seem to be one of the most important parts of WH activity. Without the gases the other WH space items are useless, and the required quantities are large. In one of the other post: Originally by: Horchan
Ok, looking at the Subsystem Component blueprints, and with the current blueprints for the core T3 ships, it looks like it will take about 2783 C-50, 604 C-70, 762 C-60, 330 C-28, and 3 C-72 (give or take a bit) to manufacture a core T3 ship.
I have read that the required gases for the core hull of a T3 ship is 4.483 units (not m3). With 5 gas harvesters that is 448.5 minutes of gas harvesting. 7 hours and a half. Beside the low probability (I suppose) of finding all the gas clouds in one location and discarding the rarity, that alone will push the base hull cost at 75 millions (a bare minimum of 10 million/hour). And you could get better return mining 0.0 minerals (if present) in the WH space than mining gas clouds, the exclusive thing of WH space. Hypothesizing a more reasonable pretence of at least 20 millions/hour the gases needed for the hull will cost 150 millions before any processing to produce the advanced materials actually used. So a core hull selling at 200 millions will be cheap. Add the 5 basic components at a mere 20% of the hull cost (40 millions each) and the whole ship will cost 400+ millions. The cost of the core hull will have a huge impact on the value of the other components in my eyes. If the core hull is very costly the other components risk to be worth little as there will be a low number of total ship around, if the core hull cost little the add ons could be priced higher as there will be more demand. I suggest to keep the special material requirement for the core hull low (at most 5 hours to gather them, so about 100 millions) with the ad on sections requiring proportionally more material and work. That way the total quantity of T3 ship will be higher and the market more active. With the aim for a complete ship cost of 400 millions this route will push each section value at 60 millions. |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa |
Posted - 2009.02.14 14:48:00 - [ 100]
Edited by: Lord Fitz on 14/02/2009 14:49:15 Originally by: Joram McRory
Edited by: Joram McRory on 13/02/2009 18:08:05
Originally by: Paranoid MindZ
It will make this expansion another "large groups only expansion".
Was going to post something similar. As with all low and deep 0.0 assests, the major alliances move in and dominate it pushing the remaining 99.98% of Eve out and unable to access them.
I'm not sure where you are gtting your figures from. AFAIK CCP released stats last year saying that ~25% of charracters were in 0.0. I've been living in 0.0 for years and have met a lot of people. 2 Accounts is the norm, and a lot have more than that. For nearly everyone out in 0.0 there are 2 to 3 times as many empire alts in empire. So at least 50% of chracters belong to a 0.0 player.
I know where you're not getting your stats from, and that's not from CCP. NINE percent, that's 9% of the eve characters are in 0.0 space. That's players were logged in a snapshot. That means you're off by 41% and the poster you quote is only off by less than 9%. That you could try and claim otherwise when in Jita you find more pilots than you can find spread across typically any 5 0.0 regions... well... madness. Just look at the players in space on the map. I've lived in 0.0 for many years and I can't see how you could logically claim this. Of course I totally disagree with the other things those players were saying. It most certainly isn't a 0.0 players only expansion. One that is designed to get more people to take more risks, sure, but that's good for the game. It's also going to help lowsec some as well ;) (that's where thirteen (13%) of people reside.). The other 76% of people (rounding) are in highsec. Quite clearly there are many more risk-adverse or casual players in highsec than there are in lowsec. The last patch was fairly involved in highsec with the Orca. There's nothing wrong with promoting lower security space, and in this case, it promotes small group colonisation of the space, not 'large groups only' given the mass limit will make it harder (though not impossible) for larger groups to hold this space. Taking and securing it will require more effort than simply dropping a capital fleet every time something gets attacked. |
Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage |
Posted - 2009.02.14 14:58:00 - [ 101]
I am just old enough to remember when HACs were fairly new and cost hundreds of millions of ISK -- and ISK was more rare and precious then.
There was an enormous amount of sentiment (from folks who couldn't afford to fly the stuff, and from some who could) that no cruiser was worth that kind of money, and that HACs would always just be a frivolous toy for the rich.
The judgment of history proved that to be wrong, but it took a while -- measured in years, not months.
History is about to repeat itself, if T3 ships prove to have a compelling role after the novelty wears off.
In the shorter run, I expect to see a lot of barter as people swap materials to supplement their incomplete supply chains. The formal T3 market will be the playground of the rich and impatient for quite awhile. |
CCP Chronotis
 |
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:59:00 - [ 102]
The original post has been updated to reflect the current status of singularity 79298. |
Mo Li
Infinite ISK.
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 17:39:00 - [ 103]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
The subsystem assembly array ... can be anchored in high sec
This is a change from what you previously announced no? Also, when can we expect the seeding of the experimental labs? |
Horchan
Gallente |
Posted - 2009.02.14 18:11:00 - [ 104]
Edited by: Horchan on 15/02/2009 00:01:35 Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Current Singularity Status - 79298
- The material requirements for reactions and the blueprints are ready for feedback
- The material sources should be available soon when wormhole space opens, however as testing requires; QA or Bughunters may spawn the materials so you can test the individual steps.
Well, assuming our hypothesis on the distribution of the new fullerite gas types is at least somewhat accurate, the distribution for the Polymers looks well designed; a good ratio of "abundant/uncommon/rare" fullerite gas. In my opinion the mineral requirements are inconsequential. The same holds true for the Subsystem Component requirements, at least on the Polymer (and thus fullerite gas) requirement. Still unsure on the Sleeper salvage aspect, as we haven't had a chance to pew pew those and see what we get, how much we get, and what seems to be the "trit bars" of the new salvage. However, all of this still needs to be compared to the actual build requirements for the Subsystems and Ship Hulls. If the current 1/33/33 component requirement is accurate for the base ship hulls, then so far I say they look decently balanced. Most of the fullerite gas needed to build them is from the "abundant" varieties of C-50/70/60, with less than 10% from the "uncommon", making the base hulls fairly simple to build overall, which is good. If there were an excess of subcomponents and a shortage of base hulls, T3 would have been in trouble from the start. I'd need to look at build requirements for the subsystems to make a more educated analysis and feedback on them. Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Known Issues
- The skill requirements for reverse engineering an ancient relic are not listed in the infowindow
- The hull relics require advanced starship engineering datacore/skill
- The Datacore - Defensive Subsystem Technology requires the wrong skill
- Experimental Laboratory mobile lab starbase structure is not seeded on singularity
I realize it's now the weekend, but is there any ETA when these will be seeded/added? I'm really itching to test the reverse engineering and see what kinds of "success"es we get from them. This will also, in my opinion, affect the balance of this whole juggling act. Edit: Another few notes: * How many of what kind of research slots will the Experimental Mobile Labs have? Their current description is void of such info. * Please make sure when you're seeding things that you seed the appropriate skill books for the "(subsystem) Technology" skills needed to use the datacores needed for reverse engineering. (This wasn't listed above, and just wanted to make sure it's on the to-do list). |
Horchan
Gallente |
Posted - 2009.02.15 20:45:00 - [ 105]
Ok, a bit more in detailed analysis of the Subsystem Components and their gas composition:
* ALL components require at least two of the three Abundant gasses; which two varies on the component, and some require all three. C-50 seems to be the most used of these; in components that use it, they average 39% C-50 composition. C-70 is technically used in more components, but in smaller quantities, only averaging 14% of the composition of the components that use it. C-60 tails this group, being both the least used of the Abundant gasses, and used in smaller quantities; it only averages 12% in the components that use it, and is only used in 2/3rd of the components. I won't be looking at the Abundant gasses beyond this.
* Defensive components: Each one requires a different Uncommon gas, which adds for diversity. For two of them ("Integrated Def" and "Reinforced"), this is the only other gas needed, making for reasonable build requirements. The only difficult component requirement would be for the "Defensive" component, which requires the Plutonium polymer, which needs C-32 and C-540, two Rare gasses. I'm assuming this will be the 'advanced' defensive component for the defensive subsystems.
* Electronic components: "Electrochemical" is the easiest here to build, only needing a bit of C-28 to finish off it's manufacture. Then comes "Neurovisual", which requires both C-28 and C-72 to finish, but no Rares, and seems to be the 'middle' component (of note is that Neurovisual requires the most C-72 to build out of all components). The 'advanced' looks to be "Reconfigured", again needing Plutonium polymer, and thus C-32 and C-540.
* Engineering components: It's a bit more difficult to look here, since all three components require at least one Rare gas. However, if I follow the pattern that the Plutonium polymer requirement is for the 'advanced' component, then I can guess that "Fulleroferrocene" is it (it also requires the least amount of Uncommon gas). A step down from that, we have "Optimized" which uses the PPD polymer, which needs C-320 and an obscene amount of C-28. And lastly is the "Integrated Therm" which uses Polyfullerene polymer, which needs C-32 and a some C-84.
* Hull components: All three have rather low gas requirements, with all three using C-28, and only the "Fullerene" needing more (C-72). The "Fullerene" also seems to be special as it's the only one that requires the Control Node salvage to make, and with the current build requirements for the T3 hulls, it looks like only one of these is needed per ship.
* Offensive components: These follow a very similar pattern to the engineering components; all three require at least one Rare gas, one requires Plutonium polymer ("Emergent"), one requires PPD polymer ("Adaptive"), and one requires Polyfullerene polymer ("Warfare"). Otherwise, they all need some C-84 in some form or fashion.
*Propulsion components: "Recalibrated" appears to be the easiest of the three to build, only needing C-28 and C-72 in addition to the Abundant gasses. "Thruster" adds a bit of complexity by needing all three Uncommon gasses, but also not needing as much Abundant gasses, and so not having too high of build requirements. Finally comes "Warp", which matches the 'advanced' component pattern of needing Plutonium polymer, and thus C-540.
Overall, it looks like the engineering and offensive components are one of the more difficult subsystem components to build, with all of them requiring at least one Rare gas, and decent amounts of Uncommon gas, with only vague ways to differentiate the tiers on them. These two component groups also are the only place PPD polymer, and thus C-320 is used.
Otherwise, almost all other 'basic' and 'middle' components only require moderate to small amounts of Uncommon gasses and appear to have very reasonable manufacture costs. The 'advanced' components all follow the pattern of needing Plutonium polymer, and will hopefully be used sparingly in the basic subsystems. |
fightingblind
Gallente
Cryptonym Sleepers
Test Alliance Please Ignore |
Posted - 2009.02.15 22:44:00 - [ 106]
Is there a full list of skills and items that are being released so we don't have to search for them? |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 12:40:00 - [ 107]
Edited by: Pottsey on 16/02/2009 12:41:01
Assuming the S is to imply more the one and a single Fullerene is without the S and more then one Fullerene is Fullerenes then there is a major plot hole here. Basic Fullerene or Fullerenes when you have two or more is common throughout Eve used as superconductors and in the biotech industry. You don't need to go into Sleeper space to get it.
"Fullerene is a molecule composed entirely of carbon. It is usually spherical in shape and can be harmful to living organisms. Basic Fullerene is used as superconductors and in the biotech industry. Complex Fullerene is an advanced version of basic fullerene that only the Jovians know how to produce. It is much harder than basic fullerene and is indestructible by all conventional methods used by the other races and thus useless in the current technological environment. The force involved in breaking it into shards must have been staggering."
Now we have Fullerenes "Fullerenes are a new type of harvestable gas."
So is Fullerene a gas or solid usually spherical in shape? Is Fullerene rare or common?
If the two are different surely they should have a different name. Fullerene or Fullerenes when there is more than one is already common throughout Eve in the storyline. I already have lots of Fullerenes in my hanger and have had lots for years. |
Shirley Serious
Amarr
The Khanid Sisters of Athra
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 13:16:00 - [ 108]
still no fullerenes or experimental labs seeded on markets. |
Horchan
Gallente |
Posted - 2009.02.16 19:12:00 - [ 109]
Originally by: Pottsey
So is Fullerene a gas or solid usually spherical in shape? Is Fullerene rare or common?
I was actually getting confused on the matter as well, but then I realized what I had been reading as "Fuller ene C-50", etc, actually read "Fuller ite C-50". Thus, all the gasses we're supposed to find in W-space are called Fullerites. What this also means is that the Devs are mixing up their own terms in the Dev blog, which mentions Fullerene gas instead of Fullerite gas. |
Sendinal Cortere
Deep Ore Refining |
Posted - 2009.02.16 22:16:00 - [ 110]
Fullerenes are the individual molecules c60 is a molecule comprised of 60 carbon atoms arranged pretty much like a soccer ball
Fullerites are solids composed of fullerenes.
So it's fullerene gas harvested into fullerite solids
a c60 molecule is about 1nm in size and the fullerite harvested is 10m3 so that's
1,000,000,000,000,000,000 fullerenes per cycle.
It's been awhile since I had to know this stuff though.
|
CCP Chronotis
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:22:00 - [ 111]
With the latest sisi build, the production chain has undergone a significant change from the first iteration. The number of materials has been narrowed down as feedback and testing showed the effort needed to acquire such a wide variety of items was far above what was desired in sheer man hours and difficulty of acquiring the materials. The biggest effect was at the subsystem manufacturing stage where the number of different components needed was reduced. As a consequence, the component manufacturing and polymer reactions were also changed.
Feedback would be appreciated on the latest test build.
|
Kathryn Dougans
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 17:51:00 - [ 112]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
With the latest sisi build, the production chain has undergone a significant change from the first iteration. The number of materials has been narrowed down as feedback and testing showed the effort needed to acquire such a wide variety of items was far above what was desired in sheer man hours and difficulty of acquiring the materials. The biggest effect was at the subsystem manufacturing stage where the number of different components needed was reduced. As a consequence, the component manufacturing and polymer reactions were also changed.
Feedback would be appreciated on the latest test build.
The reactions now all seem to require 1 mineral, and 2 fullerenes, instead of before, where before there were some that only required 2 materials. This simplifies POS construction, and means 1 reactor setup can be repurposed fairly easily to the different reactions. I think this is good, for smaller scale producers. Subsystem blueprints seem easier to understand. Overall, i think this looks good. |
Reluthan Eldom
Really Bad Eggs |
Posted - 2009.02.18 19:48:00 - [ 113]
Experimental labs not being seeded no longer appears in the known issues list, so I assume they've been seeded somewhere now. Are they only in FD- or does anyone know where else they're available? |
Sendinal Cortere
Deep Ore Refining |
Posted - 2009.02.18 20:51:00 - [ 114]
Originally by: Kathryn Dougans
The reactions now all seem to require 1 mineral, and 2 fullerenes, instead of before, where before there were some that only required 2 materials. This simplifies POS construction, and means 1 reactor setup can be repurposed fairly easily to the different reactions. I think this is good, for smaller scale producers.
Subsystem blueprints seem easier to understand.
Overall, i think this looks good.
How does this simplify POS construction? This is not snark. I'm really asking. with 2 material reactions, from my understanding, you need the reactor and three silos(silo, biochem, <reactor>, polymer) with three you need an extra biochemical silo. I'm not that up on POS management though so if I'm missing something obvious, pls forgive, I want to learn. As for the changes it really depends on what is on the other side of those ever so shy w-holes. If low quality w-space has only one type of dead common gas in it then this is a change for the worse. If the likelyhood of finding two or more gas clouds, of differing types, is high even in the empire linking w-space. Then I think it's an overall plus. |
Horchan
Gallente |
Posted - 2009.02.18 20:54:00 - [ 115]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
With the latest sisi build, the production chain has undergone a significant change from the first iteration. The number of materials has been narrowed down as feedback and testing showed the effort needed to acquire such a wide variety of items was far above what was desired in sheer man hours and difficulty of acquiring the materials. The biggest effect was at the subsystem manufacturing stage where the number of different components needed was reduced. As a consequence, the component manufacturing and polymer reactions were also changed.
Feedback would be appreciated on the latest test build.
Oh God. Where to start. =P Let's see... I can definitely understand decreasing the number of different Reactions, Subsystem Components, and Slavage. Before, there was indeed a very large variety needed to make them all. Overall, I think many of the changes were in the right direction. I can't get in game right now to check again, but I would still want to see what the actual component cost to build the Subsystems and Hulls are before I completely agree with the changes. However, I'm not so keen on the idea that all the Components require at least two or three of the exact same salvage. Unless 'Electromechanical Hull Sheeting', 'Powdered C-540 Graphite', and 'Thermal Diffusion Film' drops like candy, the fact that that they're needed in a 5:1 ratio to any other salvage will mean they will be a bottleneck. To be honest, I liked the way that salvage was distributed before, and if a similar distribution could be done using the reduced variety of salvage, I think it will be much better. |
Reluthan Eldom
Really Bad Eggs |
Posted - 2009.02.18 21:41:00 - [ 116]
Quote:
How does this simplify POS construction? This is not snark. I'm really asking. with 2 material reactions, from my understanding, you need the reactor and three silos(silo, biochem, <reactor>, polymer) with three you need an extra biochemical silo. I'm not that up on POS management though so if I'm missing something obvious, pls forgive, I want to learn.
As for the changes it really depends on what is on the other side of those ever so shy w-holes. If low quality w-space has only one type of dead common gas in it then this is a change for the worse. If the likelyhood of finding two or more gas clouds, of differing types, is high even in the empire linking w-space. Then I think it's an overall plus.
POS construction is simplified since all reactions now have the same silo + 2 biochem silo + poly reactor + poly silo requirements. Now we don't need to worry about POS setups optimized for 1 gas reactions and setups optimized for two gas reactions. Rotating reactions becomes more straight forward as a result. |
royal killer
Amarr
Shadows Of The Federation
|
Posted - 2009.02.19 08:36:00 - [ 117]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Updated 18th February
Known Issues
No known issues
Lies! there is no such thing! |
Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo |
Posted - 2009.02.20 00:19:00 - [ 118]
have the new BPO's for the new fullerides been seeded yet? |
Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo |
Posted - 2009.02.20 01:10:00 - [ 119]
Originally by: royal killer
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Updated 18th February
Known Issues
No known issues
Lies! there is no such thing!
Can we get some info on the unknown issues then? |
Protheroe |
Posted - 2009.02.20 03:38:00 - [ 120]
TIII Price EstimatesGas HarvestingAssuming the skill bonuses remain the same as they are on SiSi now, Gas Harvesting V will allow the use of a maximum of 5 Gas Cloud Harvesters per ship. With the new T2 Harvesters, that will mean a maximum yield of 9000m3, or 900 fullerenes per hour. Assuming a minimum income from harvesting fullerites in Wormhole space of 18Mil per hour (about 150% of the income from Veldspar at current prices), gives a base price of 20,000 ISK per fullerene (not too far off the cheapest sell orders for gas clouds on TQ). PolymersTaking 20,000 ISK as a minimum value for all fullerenes (price will obviously vary depending on rarity, demand and other factors, but these aren't known well enough yet to speculate) gives the following costs for polymers (including minerals at current prices): - Benzyl Aminofullerene: 507,500.00 ISK
- C3-FTM Acid: 2,120,000.00 ISK
- Fullerene Intercalated Graphite: 66,966.67 ISK
- Fullerite Aramids: 100,040.00 ISK
- Gallium Selenide: 60,040.00 ISK
- Graphene Nanoribbons: 269,066.67 ISK
- Lanthanum Metallofullerene: 133,933.33 ISK
- Methanofullerene: 100,450.00 ISK
- Scandium Metallofullerene: 202,500.00 ISK
Hybrid ComponentsTIII component prices are difficult to estimate as the abundance of the different types of salvage and artifacts needed for reverse engineering BPCs are not known. However, minimum prices based on the polymer ingredient costs above are: - Electromechanical Interface Nexus: 3,685,066.67 ISK
- Emergent Neuroptical Interface: 11,769,866.67 ISK
- Fullerene Intercalated Sheets: 2,435,333.33 ISK
- Integrated Defensive Matrix: 4,040,000.00 ISK
- Integrated Thermoelectric Core: 3,685,066.67 ISK
- Metallofullerene Plating: 1,300,760.00 ISK
- Nanowire Composites: 800,480.00 ISK
- Neuroprotectant Injector Array: 6,038,150.00 ISK
- Temporal Recalibration Unit: 10,102,000.00 ISK
- Thruster Drive Cores: 3,285,066.67 ISK
- Warfare Computation Core: 4,040,000.00 ISK
SubsystemsBased on the above component prices, excluding salvage and BPC costs, minimum subsystem prices are: - Defensive Subsystems: 55,580,786.67 ISK
- Electronic Subsystems: 53,051,223.33 ISK
- Engineering Subsystems: 78,488,893.33 ISK
- Offensive Subsystems: 102,468,063.33 ISK
- Propulsion Subsystems: 44,678,980.00 ISK
There are currently no differences in material requirements between the races or the three variants of each subsystem. Based on the above component prices, the minimum cost of a TIII hull, without the cost of reverse engineering, manufacturing and sleeper salvage ingredients, is 133,377,066.67 ISK. Adding together the subsystem prices gives a minimum cost for the fullerene component required to build a complete Strategic Cruiser of 467,645,013.33 ISK. Some ideas that could affect Fullerene costs- A specialised Gas Harvesting ship
- A Gas Harvesting bonus for one or all exhumers, or another existing ship
- Gas Harvester Upgrades
- Gas Harvester Implants
- Gas Harvester Specialisation skills
- Different volumes for Fullerenes
- The actual gas clouds could be more like raw ores which refine into various quantities of Fullerenes, or can be reacted/processed to produce them
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