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CCP Chronotis

Posted - 2009.02.10 19:10:00 - [1]
 

Updated 1st March

This is a thread for feedback on the process of making a Tech III strategic cruiser.

A breif overview of the Tech II production concept. Read more detailed information in the blog.


  • Hybrid Polymers are made from reacting fullerenes (new types of gas found in wormhole space) with regular minerals using a new reactor/silo

  • Hybrid Components are manufactured from polymers and Sleeper Salvage in a component assembly array or assembly line

  • Subsystems and hulls are manufactured from hybrid components in a new subsystem assembly array or outpost assembly lines

  • Subsystem and hull blueprints are reverse engineered from ancient relics. Reverse engineering works in a similar way to invention does. Reverse engineering research lines are available in a new experimental laboratory mobile lab or outpost research lines



Current Singularity Status - 82565



Resolved Issues



these issues have been resolved in the latest build


  • The reverse engineering of ancient relics will now correctly pick different subsystem blueprints and not just the third variation blueprint.

  • The Hybrid Tuner Interface has been renamed to R.A.M Hybrid Technology to avoid confusion with the invention data interfaces and the differences between the two mechanics and has been moved to the tools group in the market



Known Issues



these are known issues to us which are in the pipeline to be fixed


  • Gas clouds do not show up in space

  • Undocking with gas cloud harvesters will not show your ship model

  • The icon for gas clouds is not shown



Upcoming Changes



these are changes which have been made internally and will hit singularity soon


  • Polymer reaction output quantity has been increased (doubled in most cases)

  • Volumes of gas fullerite gas clouds have been tweaked

  • Volume of polymers have been tweaked

  • Capacity of hybrid polymer silo has been increased to 40,000m3 (the largest polymer will need to be emptied every 8 days currently)



Feedback is most welcome!

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.02.10 19:38:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Batolemaeus on 10/02/2009 19:38:31
The bpc i spotted during my 8ball sessions have a rather nasty skill requirement. Could the skills for the bpc be set globally to the required level for all characters, similar like oyu did when bombs were deployed on sisi?

Jian Gi
Caldari
Exiled Gathering
HELL4S
Posted - 2009.02.10 19:43:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Jian Gi on 10/02/2009 19:46:58
Edited by: Jian Gi on 10/02/2009 19:44:05
lol.

I just got back from work and spend two hours researching for a guide on this.

I guess I should have read the forums first :)

BTW i did a quick trip through empire and i don't seem to find any reverse engineering installations available at stations. Is it only 0.0 outposts?

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.02.10 19:49:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 10/02/2009 20:08:31
Please seed the Experimental Laboratory Mobile Lab.

Also, are no skills at all required to reverse engineer?

Will we be able to influence what racial BPC's it will be or is it just plain random? If so how?

MOOstradamus
Posted - 2009.02.10 20:20:00 - [5]
 

Does anybody really enjoy the POS aspect of EVE, seriously Question

Please don't force this drudgery on us ugh

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.02.10 20:29:00 - [6]
 

Ok, major problem that will prevent testing of this, the "Intact Hull Sections" can't be placed in cargoholds so impossible to move from the stations they are bought in.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.02.10 20:33:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: MOOstradamus
Does anybody really enjoy the POS aspect of EVE, seriously Question

Please don't force this drudgery on us ugh


Any bets if the new labs only can be anchored in 0.3 or lower? Wink

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.02.10 20:37:00 - [8]
 

Sounds great to me!

Harvesting the gas needs surely gas cloud harvester and the gas cloud harvesting skill, right?

I suggest that multiple smaller clouds in a system are better than one huge.

Are the restrictions on the new reactor the same like the moon/biochemical reactors, system security status 0.3 or lower? Can the reverse engineering lab be anchored in high sec?

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.02.10 20:42:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 10/02/2009 23:15:21
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: MOOstradamus
Does anybody really enjoy the POS aspect of EVE, seriously Question

Please don't force this drudgery on us ugh


Any bets if the new labs only can be anchored in 0.3 or lower? Wink


I really hope the assembly arrays and the labs aren't limited to low sec/0.0, but the simple fact that the lines are limited tooutposts seem to confirm it.

It will make this expansion another "large groups only expansion".

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2009.02.10 20:42:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 10/02/2009 20:43:09
Mining in W-Space?

I do not know how much of the stuff will be needed in manufacture nor how much cargo it fills but logistics in mining OPs is a pain in hi sec. In W-Space it'll be considerably harder (if you can get an Orca in maybe not awful but there is that mass limit dealie and Orcas are big). No stations to unload in out there either.

Add to that the gank factor. Just look at how much mining is done in low sec (read very, very little) and consider this will be worse. Undefended 0.0 space (so bubbles and HICs). I know, I know...bring a gang. Fine. Still sounds dicey at best.

With all the above, and again not knowing amounts needed, I expect the mats for this to be quite valuable and T3 exceptionally expensive.

EDIT: Oh yeah...will gas harvesters and the skills become more available than they are now?

Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.10 20:43:00 - [11]
 

hey hey

from an initial read and enjoy perspective it all seems highly convoluted.

Gas+mins >> polymer+sleeper salvage = component
ancient relic+reverse engineering = BPC

component+BPC = hull
component+BPC = subsystem

hull+subsystem = Loki

coupled with new labs, assembly arrays, skills. etc they are gonna be insanly expensive. I know its T3 but thats alot of investment for a builder. its very intensive tbh



Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2009.02.10 20:46:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
I really hope the assembly arrays and the labs aren't limited to low sec/0.0, but the simple fact that the lines are limited to putpost seem to confirm it.


Gad I hope they do not sideline 80% of EVE like this.

The OP says: "new subsystem assembly array or outpost assembly lines."

That reads to me like POS and Outposts.

I would not be surprised if it is low sec only POS though.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.02.10 20:49:00 - [13]
 

Trying to load some of the stuff into my freighter:


"This item cannot be put into cargo containers." while trying to move them into cargo

Only happens with:

Intact Hull Section
Malfunctioning Hull Section
Wrecked Hull Section
Malfunctioning Weapon Subroutines (Intact Weapon Subroutines can be loaded, though)
Wrecked Weapon Subroutines

All others seem to be allowed to reside inside a freighter ;)

CCP Chronotis

Posted - 2009.02.10 20:54:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 10/02/2009 20:08:31
Please seed the Experimental Laboratory Mobile Lab.

Also, are no skills at all required to reverse engineer?

Will we be able to influence what racial BPC's it will be or is it just plain random? If so how?


There are five new science based skills, one for each subsystem (eg engineering subsystem technology). These are also used for manufacture of the subsystems and will be available soon. They will be required in addition to some of the existing skills.

You choose what racial BPC you use through the decryptor. Although they are called decryptors, they are not like invention decryptors, they do not currently modify the output blueprint at all. There is one decryptor for each race and it is required for each job to have at least one.

Quote:
Ok, major problem that will prevent testing of this, the "Intact Hull Sections" can't be placed in cargoholds so impossible to move from the stations they are bought in.

Quote:
Intact Hull Section
Malfunctioning Hull Section
Wrecked Hull Section
Malfunctioning Weapon Subroutines (Intact Weapon Subroutines can be loaded, though)
Wrecked Weapon Subroutines


this has been fixed internally.

Quote:
Are the restrictions on the new reactor the same like the moon/biochemical reactors, system security status 0.3 or lower? Can the reverse engineering lab be anchored in high sec?


the assembly arrays and experimental labs can be anchored anywhere, the polymer reactors must be used in low sec space. There is the possibility we will also add to station assemblylines but these would be expensive.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.02.10 21:00:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
the assembly arrays and experimental labs can be anchored anywhere, the polymer reactors must be used in low sec space. There is the possibility we will also add to station assemblylines but these would be expensive.


Excellent! That sounds as it should be. These are good news!

Slash Bodenski
Posted - 2009.02.10 21:15:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
You choose what racial BPC you use through the decryptor. Although they are called decryptors, they are not like invention decryptors, they do not currently modify the output blueprint at all. There is one decryptor for each race and it is required for each job to have at least one.


Are decrypters consumed in the process? Or are they more like data interfaces that are reusable?

Slash Bodenski

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.02.10 21:30:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 10/02/2009 21:33:24
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 10/02/2009 21:32:55
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
the assembly arrays and experimental labs can be anchored anywhere, the polymer reactors must be used in low sec space. There is the possibility we will also add to station assemblylines but these would be expensive.

I can report that it is not working to anchor the subsystem assembly array in 0.6. I can launch it for corp but when I click anchor nothing happens, not even an error message. I tried to anchor it next to a medium shadow POS in Jel.

Any idea when the skillbooks and labs will be seeded?

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.02.10 21:32:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Slash Bodenski
Are decrypters consumed in the process? Or are they more like data interfaces that are reusable?

Slash Bodenski

Most likely consumed, you have one hybrid decryptor per race and a single Hybrid Tuner Data Interface.

Slash Bodenski
Posted - 2009.02.10 21:42:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Slash Bodenski on 10/02/2009 21:44:26
That's a shame. Not unexpected, but oh well. High barriers to being a vertically integrated shop unless you are really big. Looking forward to seeing the BPCs become available to get an idea of the volumes of material needed. The reaction amounts make little sense without the context of the total needs for a ship/module.

Tharrn
Amarr
Epitoth Fleet Yards
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.11 00:06:00 - [20]
 

Hmm... the Fullerenes are not even listed on the market. How can we get hold of them to test the functionality of the Polymer Reactors?

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2009.02.11 00:25:00 - [21]
 

Will you release skills and these relics on SiSi?

Basically looking for the list of skills that are required and prerequisites!

El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar
Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
Posted - 2009.02.11 00:30:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
  • Hybrid Components are manufactured from polymers and Sleeper Salvage in a component assembly array or assembly line



  • Before the waste calculation change that has been reversed again, component arrays applied their 1.1 material multiplier only to capital components and tools. T2 components were built with a 1.0 multiplier.
    Granted, this may have been a bug, but at least they had a use back then.

    Since then, it simply isn't feasible to use them, even with their 0.75 time multiplier, as 10% higher build cost with the rather inefficient invention output BPCs completely kills production business.

    I therefor suggest you save yourself the trouble of adding the new stuff as buildables to the component arrays. Noone will use them, unless the materials will have an abundancy and price similar to Tritanium in K-space.

    Patri Andari
    Caldari
    Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
    Posted - 2009.02.11 03:30:00 - [23]
     

    Sounds like a real boost to 0.0 eh?

    Kylar Renpurs
    Dusk Blade
    Posted - 2009.02.11 08:23:00 - [24]
     

    TBH, please leave it as convoluted as it is. Creates more market opportunities and sub-careers.

    1. W-space explorer who recovers "stuff", whether salvage, artifacts, gas, and sells on market.
    2. Small/medium-time POS operator kitted out for reacting in low-sec, buying components off market.
    3. Small/medium time POS operator kitted out for manufacturing hulls in high-sec, buying BPCs/components off market/contracts.

    Plus there's always the option of setting up a whole-of-chain setup which manufactures whatever BPCs you have and buying whatever bits you don't get from W-space from market again, selling whatever you recover and don't need.

    ollobrains2
    Gallente
    New Eve Order Holdings
    Posted - 2009.02.11 09:59:00 - [25]
     

    well going into wsapce with comabte ships ( for amols) gas mining or mineral mining even is still not even needing a permanent wspace rpesense.

    All the other pos slots can be setup in low sec even the construction and blending systems u sjust need to source from wspace

    It just adds more variance to wspace.

    Dianalexia
    Posted - 2009.02.11 10:27:00 - [26]
     

    Originally by: CCP Chronotis
    the assembly arrays and experimental labs can be anchored anywhere, the polymer reactors must be used in low sec space. There is the possibility we will also add to station assemblylines but these would be expensive.


    It will be awesome to have assembly line in low-sec and 0.0 stations and outposts only. It will provide a nice boost for these regions, especially for low-sec!

    CCP Chronotis

    Posted - 2009.02.11 12:27:00 - [27]
     

    Originally by: Tharrn
    Hmm... the Fullerenes are not even listed on the market. How can we get hold of them to test the functionality of the Polymer Reactors?



    Originally by: Halada
    Will you release skills and these relics on SiSi?

    Basically looking for the list of skills that are required and prerequisites!


    yes, the remaining materials and skills will be released for testing in the next sisi update.

    Originally by: El'essar Viocragh
    Originally by: CCP Chronotis
  • Hybrid Components are manufactured from polymers and Sleeper Salvage in a component assembly array or assembly line



  • Before the waste calculation change that has been reversed again, component arrays applied their 1.1 material multiplier only to capital components and tools. T2 components were built with a 1.0 multiplier.
    Granted, this may have been a bug, but at least they had a use back then.

    Since then, it simply isn't feasible to use them, even with their 0.75 time multiplier, as 10% higher build cost with the rather inefficient invention output BPCs completely kills production business.


    They are commodities so can be manufactured at stations and the component assembly array. The component assembly array material multiplier has been reduced to 1.0 witn apocrypha.


    Laendra
    Universalis Imperium
    Posted - 2009.02.11 12:52:00 - [28]
     

    Originally by: CCP Chronotis
    The component assembly array material multiplier has been reduced to 1.0 witn apocrypha.


    Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Can you fix the Advanced Ship Assembly Arrays fubar modifier now too? Very Happy

    Horchan
    Gallente
    Posted - 2009.02.11 16:47:00 - [29]
     

    Edited by: Horchan on 11/02/2009 16:47:39
    Originally by: CCP Chronotis
    yes, the remaining materials and skills will be released for testing in the next sisi update.


    Excellent. That was exactly what I was checking this thread for. Do you have an ETA of when the next update will hit Sisi?

    Edit: Also, any chance of adding Reverse Engineering slots to the stations in FD- or surrounding systems?

    Sazuka Kirr
    Caldari
    Trans-Solar Works
    Posted - 2009.02.11 17:26:00 - [30]
     

    Originally by: CCP Chronotis
    • Hybrid Polymers are made from reacting fullerenes (new types of gas found in wormhole space) with regular minerals using a new reactor/silo



    Will these 'new types of gas' come in the same form as the harvestable gas clouds used in booster production?


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