| Author |
Topic |
Acrel
Amarr
Blood Covenant |
Posted - 2009.01.31 20:15:00 - [ 1]
Edited by: Acrel on 31/01/2009 20:16:54
I know its early to predict but planning never hurts. Was thinking of a way to be somewhat self suffiecent out in W-Space. My thoughts would be Orca with a mix of combat ships plus some in cargo with decent amount of ammo/drone in hold. Once in W-Space move the orca to a DSS w/cloak. Live out of the Orca till the hold is full then start scanning for a safe way out.
Now the only thing iam kind of iffy about is what would be the best idea for ships needed out in W-Space? Not sure what the Orca can fit in the hanger or hold ship wise. Would think with the type of space a BS might be needed aswell as smaller ships for plexs and other encounters.
edit: Iam planning to do this with 3 alts. One being the Orca *****, 1 combat/explorer, and 1 pure combat.
|
Terminus Vindictus
Caldari |
Posted - 2009.01.31 21:32:00 - [ 2]
Supposedly there's a size limit for ships going through the wormhole, so if that's true it may preclude an Orca from going through. We'll have to wait for more details. |
Tasko Pal
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 08:46:00 - [ 3]
Sounds good to me. I've been going over some solo configurations, myself. Lot of possibilities in this Brave New World.
Orca definitely looks to be a nice ship even if it is too big for a lot of wormholes. Even without cargohold modules or riggings, you have at least 31.5k m3 (36k m3 with level 4 in industrial command ships) of normal cargo and 40k m3 of corporate hangar. Toss in the maintenance hangar, which can hold three hacs or other cruisers (plus some frigs) and I think you have the best likely base station for nomadic W-Space movement.
Orca can't carry bs. So you can't replace them. |
Ancy Denaries
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 09:12:00 - [ 4]
BS would probably be out of the picture anyway, due to how the new rats work. Solo BS wouldn't fare too well against smaller rats. |
Fiben Bolger
Gallente |
Posted - 2009.02.04 17:51:00 - [ 5]
 Originally by: Ancy Denaries
BS would probably be out of the picture anyway, due to how the new rats work. Solo BS wouldn't fare too well against smaller rats.
The Dominix? |
ContractKiller0211
FISKL GUARDS |
Posted - 2009.02.04 21:46:00 - [ 6]
I think i heard someone say that you could anchor a pos but it would be dificult keeping it fueled up |
Prometheus09
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group |
Posted - 2009.02.04 22:32:00 - [ 7]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Edited by: CCP Greyscale on 27/01/2009 14:25:30
We've got a cutoff value (12,000,000kg currently) which is a minimum ship mass that can always use a wormhole while its mass budget is still above 0kg. If this ship takes the budget below 0kg, it collapses. Say then you've got a wormhole with 9,900,000kg left: you can jump a 11,000,000kg cruiser through, but
that'll take it below 0 and it collapses behind you. You could also take 10 1,000,000kg frigates through, and it'd collapse after the last one.
In wormhole systems, a collapsing exit will always spawn a new exit. In K-space a collapsing wormhole will respawn elsewhere in the cluster.
So you will be able to take a orca into any system, however getting back to a safe system will be a little harder. |
Ranged Airman
White Talon Enterprises
New Bastion |
Posted - 2009.02.04 23:53:00 - [ 8]
Trying to figure out how to play in the unknown is probably as much fun as actually doing it (at least for some people  ) So yay! for these kind of posts. It may be a bit hard to find a wormhole which can fit an orca with even more pilots following behind. Of course if you can fit an orca then it might just be lucrative enough. Personally, I think Cruisers, Frigates, and a cloak-fitted deep-space transport are the way to go. Flexibility is huge, and with an emphasis of most bang per kilo, it isn't too hard to see the benefits of having 2 Basilisks(Such a beautiful combination!) and a nice collection of Assault Ships to go through and figure out the strange new environment. Finally... I know this is silly, but if T3 is cruiser-sized stuff then why not bring in your own T2 cruisers to play in the new sandbox? |
ContractKiller0211
FISKL GUARDS |
Posted - 2009.02.05 02:03:00 - [ 9]
In one of the dev blogs says about you can anchor a pos does anyone know if the moons will have rarer moons like dysposium and all that stuff? |
Ranged Airman
White Talon Enterprises
New Bastion |
Posted - 2009.02.05 02:22:00 - [ 10]
ContractKiller, I can't imagine them not being in someplace within w-space :) |
Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project |
Posted - 2009.02.05 10:04:00 - [ 11]
Orca might be a bit too expencive to justify the risks, depending on profitablity and propability of loss ofc. I would suggest going for suicide small tower instead. You can carry tower and 2 months of fuel (if you are rather light on supplies side) in deep space transport. And if that wormhole can tolerate Orca you should be able to press thru 2 deep space transport runs and some 12 or so HAC's on top of that without going nuts over it.
So, it's then Small tower (~200 mil with fittings and 2 months of fuel) vs Orca (mobile and cloakable, but 600 mil and needs pilot in it). |
Mr Xanatos |
Posted - 2009.02.05 14:28:00 - [ 12]
The mass allowed by each wormhole will decide what you can bring.
Im gonna try a 3 man fleet first and see how that works out.
1) Falcon for scouting/probing/claoked warp/ECM. Falcons role is to find points of interest, scout them and jam the rats (if possible)
2) A drone boat for warping in on jammed rats and doing the dps. Drone boat will also act as salvager and repper for the fleet.
3) A transport for cloaked storage and resupply.
Id like to spend a few days in there at a time. A small POS would provide some safety against a handfull of PVP pirates provided you set it up correctly. Over time if you can manage to figure out resupply logistics then a medium or large might be possible.
POS logistics will only be possible if the wormholes are 2 way like gates, i.e you scan for one, jump through, realise that its bad space on the other side and turn around and go back into the same wormole. Eventually you will find a safe exit, jump through, pick up more fuel and come back in before it collapses. Repeat over and over increasing your resources in the same location each time.
|
Cade Morrigan
Caldari |
Posted - 2009.02.05 15:20:00 - [ 13]
This stuff is really piquing my interest.
Exploration skills? Check!
Cov-Ops ship? Check!
Recon ship? Check!
Transport? in about 5 weeks!
Now I just need to find a crew to run with... and make a clone with cheap implants. |
Cobra Black |
Posted - 2009.02.05 16:13:00 - [ 14]
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
This stuff is really piquing my interest.
Exploration skills? Check!
Cov-Ops ship? Check!
Recon ship? Check!
Transport? in about 5 weeks!
Now I just need to find a crew to run with... and make a clone with cheap implants.
Finding a crew will be tough, I've managed to gather a handfull or real good guys I trust from my mains Corp but that will prob upset a few people if they leave to go join wormhole living with me. For extended stays I think 2-3 accounts and/or a few friends will be essential. Training alts in indy ships for some hauling of supplies to a wormhole entrance might be a good idea aswell. But, many wormhole corps will probably be formed, keep a look out for them. |
Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project |
Posted - 2009.02.06 07:52:00 - [ 15]
One has 3 character slots per account. So that will mean that 'solo' you can use up to 3 ships in semireasonable way in w-space. It's somewhat juggling with only one account ofc, ie warp to planet or whatever spot is 'safe enough' eject from your alt's ship, then log in main char, go get the ship, etc...
Now 2 accounts have 6 character slots thats a lot better! Let us say 2 'main chars' ie properly trained, can probe and usually use the needed combat ships plus 4 'haulers', let us say for simplicity the infamous '1h-training-out-of-box-wartime-hauler' bestower ones. As propability of loss might be considerable, then no point of rigging their ride ofc, so it's what, approx 12 k m3 room per 'hauler-alt'. All things combined you will have around 50 000 m3 for supplies and later for loot.
So, true solo expedition will not be comfortable, but will be possible with metagaming. 'Solo' in the sense of having multiple accounts will be certainly possible without metagaming and will be even more powerful with metagaming, granting you approx 25 000 m3 of 'storage space' per account when metagaming. Assuming the hole you drill is big enough for that amount of industrials. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas. |
Posted - 2009.02.06 09:42:00 - [ 16]
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 06/02/2009 09:49:04 Originally by: Terminus Vindictus
Supposedly there's a size limit for ships going through the wormhole, so if that's true it may preclude an Orca from going through. We'll have to wait for more details.
I think the real problem is going to be that any sort of "size limit" that will keep capital ships from entering high-sec are likely also going to keep freighters from being able to get into high-sec space. That'd be a real crimp on "cynosural commerce" if you ask me. In time, I don't doubt that w-space will be teeming with people who live there exclusively, but figuring out the logistics of actually doing it is going to require so much trial and error that it's pointless to speculate how to do it pre-release. |
Ydyp Ieva
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 12:07:00 - [ 17]
Have been discussing same last night in corp. Next paragraphe from blog can be linked to this topic: Quote:
The wormholes themselves will be open only for a randomly determined amount of time and can only let through a certain amount of mass before they collapse. Pilots should carefully consider the information their ship's computer gives them about a wormhole before committing to travel through it. Although there will always be a way back to known space from wormhole space, you may have to search long and hard to locate it. And in that process, you may find wormholes that lead you to even more unexplored wormhole systems, launching you on a voyage of exploration the likes of which EVE has never seen before.
So they are mass sensitive not size, so basicly you would even be able to squeeze a carrier through. However that thing got 1 bil kg for its mass. The orca got 130 mil kg. The ships in the ship bay doesn't count for the mass probably, but the ships mass itself is way higher then the mass of the ships you can put in the bay. But even then if you decide to take one of those ships you got to be with 2 players, as the carrier/orca will have to be manned for the cloak to be active. And working without a cloak is and just letting it hang there like a big container is to prone to be stolen. They aren't exactly that hard to scan out with their massive signature radius. And you can bet 90% of the ships in wormhole-space will have scanning equipement. And if you pull it up to groups it is 100%. Also once the time elapses of the original wormhole you will need to find a new one for exit. And nothing going to guarantee you that it won't place you in the middle of a very hostile 0.0 region. So if you ask me and considering points above it is just to risky and to expensive to bring in an orca just for the sake of being able to solo. |
rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises |
Posted - 2009.02.06 13:03:00 - [ 18]
Originally by: Carniflex
Orca might be a bit too expencive to justify the risks, depending on profitablity and propability of loss ofc. I would suggest going for suicide small tower instead. You can carry tower and 2 months of fuel (if you are rather light on supplies side) in deep space transport. And if that wormhole can tolerate Orca you should be able to press thru 2 deep space transport runs and some 12 or so HAC's on top of that without going nuts over it.
So, it's then Small tower (~200 mil with fittings and 2 months of fuel) vs Orca (mobile and cloakable, but 600 mil and needs pilot in it).
the essential thing about the orca is that it is mobile, the cloak is really just a bonus. because most of the T3 stuff i suspect will be found though exploration sites similar to hacking/arch sites in regular space. this means that anyone looking for shiny t3 stuff will need to be constantly moving scanning systems for signatures. try sitting in one system in normal space waiting for a mag site to respawn after you just did the initial one, you arnt likely to get another one for a week. on another note. anyone need a covops pilot with some badass probing skills? :D |
Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project |
Posted - 2009.02.06 13:54:00 - [ 19]
Originally by: rubico1337
Originally by: Carniflex
Orca might be a bit too expencive to justify the risks, depending on profitablity and propability of loss ofc. I would suggest going for suicide small tower instead. You can carry tower and 2 months of fuel (if you are rather light on supplies side) in deep space transport. And if that wormhole can tolerate Orca you should be able to press thru 2 deep space transport runs and some 12 or so HAC's on top of that without going nuts over it.
So, it's then Small tower (~200 mil with fittings and 2 months of fuel) vs Orca (mobile and cloakable, but 600 mil and needs pilot in it).
the essential thing about the orca is that it is mobile, the cloak is really just a bonus. because most of the T3 stuff i suspect will be found though exploration sites similar to hacking/arch sites in regular space. this means that anyone looking for shiny t3 stuff will need to be constantly moving scanning systems for signatures. try sitting in one system in normal space waiting for a mag site to respawn after you just did the initial one, you arnt likely to get another one for a week.
on another note. anyone need a covops pilot with some badass probing skills? :D
While Orca is ofc mobile it's also quite massive, even if you nano it up. Not sure from top of my head, but I think it had mass of approx 250 000 000 kg. So if it's mobile or not in moving thru w-space from system to system sense depends on mass tolerance of 'average' wormhole you find. Compare that to the regular industrials approx 15 000 000 kg, that is only slightly above the regular cruiser. Orca carrying capacity for ships is determined by their size in m3, while wormholes will count the actual mass of ships going thru. |
Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project |
Posted - 2009.02.06 14:20:00 - [ 20]
For reference
Titan ~ 1 700 000 000 kg
Mothership ~ 1 300 000 000 kg
Freighter ~ 1 125 000 000 kg
Dreadnaught ~ 1 200 000 000 kg
Carrier ~ 1 000 000 000 kg
Orca ~250 000 000 kg
Battleship ~ 100 000 000 kg
Hulk ~ 40 000 000 kg
Deep Space transport ~20 000 000 kg
Battlecruiser ~ 15 000 000 kg
Industrial ~15 000 000 kg
Cruiser ~ 12 000 000 kg
Blocade Runner ~10 000 000 kg
Frigate ~ 1 200 000 kg
CCP has confirmed 2 things in that bigger thread (1) Some wormholes will be big enough to let Mothership thru, but they are so rare to event that you will get that mothership out alive is unlikely (in combination of your opposition being pvp like, ie able to kill solo mothership over time that does not have support fleet) (2) Wormholes will have in addition to mass limit also shiptype limit so you will not able to put capital ships into hi sec empire thru womrspace even if you manage to get capital ship onto w-space and find big enough hole into hi sec space.
I assume that they do not classify freighters and orcas as 'capital' ships in that sense, but even so it seems highly unlikely to find big enough hole for freighter in hi sec. Orca ... maybe, but it would be one way trip for you. By the mass alone I would say that if local NPC's are not too scary then doing multiple industrial runs over single capital ship run is more sensible, hell you can get enough minerals in there to build several battleships within the mass limit of single battleship using iteron 5's. Even after you take into account that you need to get also tower and array to do the building on tops of minerals. |
rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises |
Posted - 2009.02.06 14:37:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: rubico1337
Originally by: Carniflex
Orca might be a bit too expencive to justify the risks, depending on profitablity and propability of loss ofc. I would suggest going for suicide small tower instead. You can carry tower and 2 months of fuel (if you are rather light on supplies side) in deep space transport. And if that wormhole can tolerate Orca you should be able to press thru 2 deep space transport runs and some 12 or so HAC's on top of that without going nuts over it.
So, it's then Small tower (~200 mil with fittings and 2 months of fuel) vs Orca (mobile and cloakable, but 600 mil and needs pilot in it).
the essential thing about the orca is that it is mobile, the cloak is really just a bonus. because most of the T3 stuff i suspect will be found though exploration sites similar to hacking/arch sites in regular space. this means that anyone looking for shiny t3 stuff will need to be constantly moving scanning systems for signatures. try sitting in one system in normal space waiting for a mag site to respawn after you just did the initial one, you arnt likely to get another one for a week.
on another note. anyone need a covops pilot with some badass probing skills? :D
While Orca is ofc mobile it's also quite massive, even if you nano it up. Not sure from top of my head, but I think it had mass of approx 250 000 000 kg. So if it's mobile or not in moving thru w-space from system to system sense depends on mass tolerance of 'average' wormhole you find. Compare that to the regular industrials approx 15 000 000 kg, that is only slightly above the regular cruiser.
Orca carrying capacity for ships is determined by their size in m3, while wormholes will count the actual mass of ships going thru.
2.5 million is the size of around two and a half battleships. i highly suspect that the majority of wormholes will be able to accommodate it. the real value of the orca (other than its mobility) really isnt the hauling capacity, even though it can carry more than 2 haulers, its the ship maintenance array, you can stick spare covops ships, and about 5 hacs and 3 AFs in there. thats worth its weight in gold when you lose a ship out there do to the new NPC AI |
Cade Morrigan
Caldari |
Posted - 2009.02.06 14:37:00 - [ 22]
Originally by: rubico1337
anyone need a covops pilot with some badass probing skills? :D
With sentences like these, ensuring proper white-spacing is very important! |
Ralitge boyter
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 14:46:00 - [ 23]
Orca seems the most likely candidate but there is a problem and that is that it will only fit 1 out of X holes... make X big enough and an orca could well be a very dumb thing to bring.
I suspect that CCP will be looking for mostly frigates, cruisers and battle ships out in w-space, for the simple reason that they like PvP, thus taking industrial ships and other carebear craft trough will not make them to happy. They will let us of course but the main goal behind w-space seems to be combat and T3 gear. With the rats being more PvP oriented I think you will find them difficult to handle in a industrial ship.
In fact I expect the new T3 ships to be by far the best ships to hop into w-space get some gear and jump back out again. Simply because they will be in one or more ways superior to their counterparts. I see very few people thinking about that but I would guess that apart from the initial land rush with T2 ships I expect to see mostly T3 ships taking on the better and smarter Sleepers in w-space. |
Terminus Vindictus
Caldari |
Posted - 2009.02.06 14:50:00 - [ 24]
OK, here's an important question: do we know if the wormhole size limitation is a one-time thing for that wormhole, or does it reset every time the wormhole re-opens up in a different system? In other words, if I'm the first one to find the wormhole and go through it with the maximum amount of mass allowed, is the wormhole inaccessible to others until I get out? |
Ikserak tai |
Posted - 2009.02.06 15:01:00 - [ 25]
Edited by: Ikserak tai on 06/02/2009 15:01:52
Running through a one-account solo operation:
(1)Enter wormhole w/Orca with alt 1, warp to planet or designated safe spot, bookmark, then logoff.
(2)Logon to alt 2, enter wormhole with covops frig, whatever. Move to safe spot, logoff.
(3)Logon to Main, enter wormhole with complex mission runner (BC or BS). Logoff.
Can ships be jettisoned and be scooped to a cargo bay like cargo containers?? If you jettison a Hulk, logoff, and then another alt logs on to get the Hulk. The ship he left can then be scooped to cargohold, after logon/logoff, and then Orca and its contents "disappear"after logoff and thus are safe.
I would say jettisoning/scooping ships would be a crucial factor in a single account solo op. If anyone has Orca experience in this matter the info would be greatly appreciated. |
Dracthera
Minmatar |
Posted - 2009.02.06 15:43:00 - [ 26]
Originally by: Ikserak tai
Edited by: Ikserak tai on 06/02/2009 15:01:52
Running through a one-account solo operation:
(1)Enter wormhole w/Orca with alt 1, warp to planet or designated safe spot, bookmark, then logoff.
(2)Logon to alt 2, enter wormhole with covops frig, whatever. Move to safe spot, logoff.
(3)Logon to Main, enter wormhole with complex mission runner (BC or BS). Logoff.
Can ships be jettisoned and be scooped to a cargo bay like cargo containers?? If you jettison a Hulk, logoff, and then another alt logs on to get the Hulk. The ship he left can then be scooped to cargohold, after logon/logoff, and then Orca and its contents "disappear"after logoff and thus are safe.
I would say jettisoning/scooping ships would be a crucial factor in a single account solo op. If anyone has Orca experience in this matter the info would be greatly appreciated.
That seems like a lot of effort for no reason. Just put all your ships in the Orca hangar and fly them all at once into the wormhole... Once you're inside, you can just undock them from the hangar as needed, use them, then scoop them to the hangar again. |
Ikserak tai |
Posted - 2009.02.06 15:59:00 - [ 27]
Originally by: Dracthera
Originally by: Ikserak tai
Edited by: Ikserak tai on 06/02/2009 15:01:52
Running through a one-account solo operation:
(1)Enter wormhole w/Orca with alt 1, warp to planet or designated safe spot, bookmark, then logoff.
(2)Logon to alt 2, enter wormhole with covops frig, whatever. Move to safe spot, logoff.
(3)Logon to Main, enter wormhole with complex mission runner (BC or BS). Logoff.
Can ships be jettisoned and be scooped to a cargo bay like cargo containers?? If you jettison a Hulk, logoff, and then another alt logs on to get the Hulk. The ship he left can then be scooped to cargohold, after logon/logoff, and then Orca and its contents "disappear"after logoff and thus are safe.
I would say jettisoning/scooping ships would be a crucial factor in a single account solo op. If anyone has Orca experience in this matter the info would be greatly appreciated.
That seems like a lot of effort for no reason. Just put all your ships in the Orca hangar and fly them all at once into the wormhole... Once you're inside, you can just undock them from the hangar as needed, use them, then scoop them to the hangar again.
Can they be undocked without a pilot? and docked sans pilot? On another thread this is somewhat confirmed, just need to be sure before investing in training, etc. |
Dracthera
Minmatar |
Posted - 2009.02.06 16:20:00 - [ 28]
Originally by: Ikserak tai
Can they be undocked without a pilot? and docked sans pilot? On another thread this is somewhat confirmed, just need to be sure before investing in training, etc.
Yes, you can launch a ship from the Orca ship maintenance bay, then board it as you would any other ship in space. The Orca then becomes pilotless. You do what you need to do in your other ship, then come back and board the Orca again, then scoop your other ship back into the Orca maintenance bay. |
Ikserak tai |
Posted - 2009.02.06 16:45:00 - [ 29]
Hate to belabor the point, but will the undocked, pilotless ship remain there if I log-off and then log-on with an alt who can actually fly the ship? |
Dracthera
Minmatar |
Posted - 2009.02.06 17:12:00 - [ 30]
Originally by: Ikserak tai
Hate to belabor the point, but will the undocked, pilotless ship remain there if I log-off and then log-on with an alt who can actually fly the ship?
No idea. I've never logged off while leaving my pilotless ship in space. |
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