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Galactic Tycoon
Posted - 2009.01.28 14:16:00 - [1]
 

I've got some iskies to burn so I feel like buying a new toy.

Which faction ship would you guys rate as the best all rounder?

The look of Ahimmu looks HOT, but I heard it's not very good? Huge disappointment if it is!

The Phantasm looks ok and I'm guessing by the generally higher price for it, means it's a decent ship..?

Vigilant- Again looks great. I'm tempted to go for this right now. It seems to have a 7.5% tracking bonus per level....so I'm guessing it's designed to be fit for speed and do loops around your target with the bonus making sure you can hit them?

Any suggestions welcome. Very Happy

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.01.28 14:40:00 - [2]
 

Ashimmu looks awesome but is sadly terrible

Vigilant is too expensive for a ship that's throwing itself into web range, just use a Deimos if you want to do that, or a rax or a brutix

Phantasm is ridiculously good

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2009.01.28 14:44:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Terianna Eri
Ashimmu looks awesome but is sadly terrible

Vigilant is too expensive for a ship that's throwing itself into web range, just use a Deimos if you want to do that, or a rax or a brutix

Phantasm is ridiculously good


This.

Galactic Tycoon
Posted - 2009.01.28 14:46:00 - [4]
 

Come on guys stop teasing. I need details. Very Happy

Why is the Phantasm so good....the 100% damage mod?

If you know of a decent fitting I'm all ears...

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.01.28 17:34:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Galactic Tycoon
Come on guys stop teasing. I need details. Very Happy

Why is the Phantasm so good....the 100% damage mod?

If you know of a decent fitting I'm all ears...

high damage, utility high for neuts, drone bay, lots and lots of mids for MWD/Point/shield buffer
because shield buffers are really good since you can improve them with rigs and they give you lots of EHP for cruiser/BC class and you can overload invulns and they recharge naturally and they are easy to fit.
also lasers are really good and tracking is really really good and aasdfasdga the phantasm wtfpwns its like a friggin zealot but with antifrig defense or a navy omen but shield buffered and without crippling cap problems and its good

I'm pretty sure Merin will be back again to link you to his phantasm fitting thread; if I felt like blowing 200mil on a cruiser hull (****, I could by an absolution for that!) it'd def be a phantasm.

Vigilant is good but has the same problems as the deimos - it's expensive and its advantages over the brutix aren't going to save it when it willingly flies into web range (although i kinda like the deimos :B)

Ashimmu is just terrible. Terrible fitting, terrible bonuses, not enough mids, no drone bay, TERRIBLE FITTING, no dps, crappy tank, have I mentioned the abysmal fitting yet?

I bought an ashimmu, bought a faction web for it, faction nos, faction warp disruptor, and tried to fit it.
It was absolutely terrible. I bought a curse and fit the faction nos and warp disruptor to it instead and sold the web and ashimmu within a day. It's only good for flying around in space (and even that wore off quickly, the hull isn't THAT cool, curse is cooler imho).

VoiceInTheDesert
Inroads
Posted - 2009.01.28 18:06:00 - [6]
 

Ash sucks cause it's PG blows. It has good bonuses, but you can't fit **** to it cause it doesn't have the fitting required.

Phantasm is cool and, to my knowledge, one of the best glass cannons out there because of it's omgwtfbbq dps and ability to fit a decent buffer tank with shields.

Vigilant is too expensive for what it does (be a fancy Deimos, which is, in turn, just a fancy Thorax).

Kaileen Starsong
Amarr
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.01.28 18:15:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert
Phantasm is cool and, to my knowledge, one of the best glass cannons out there because of it's omgwtfbbq dps and ability to fit a decent buffer tank with shields.



ShockedLaughing

But yeah, Pants' the only pirate faction cruiser worth flying. Cynabal is okay as beefed up Ruppie, but doesn't come close.

Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2009.01.28 18:42:00 - [8]
 

Phantasm, Fleet stabber, and Navy omen are pretty much sex in space.

Phantasm has awesome tank, with awesome nano, with awesome damage. (Half the lasers=more cap for mwd)

Fleet stabber can track like crazy with autos, slap 3 ambit extension rigs on it, fit 5 med drones and have a full armor tank in the 6 lows and go to town.

The Navy omen is similar to the stabber, has a whopping 7 lows for tank and even has room for 5 light drones.

Galactic Tycoon
Posted - 2009.01.28 18:48:00 - [9]
 

Nice....going to get a Phantasm.

Where's this Phantasm fitting thread then? A great ship deserves a great fit. Very Happy

Sakai Kando
Gallente
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.28 19:17:00 - [10]
 

what about the navy vexor?

Soporo
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.28 20:27:00 - [11]
 

Or the lol Navy Caracal. You ask me all these damn things are just way overpriced.

VoiceInTheDesert
Inroads
Posted - 2009.01.28 20:35:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Kaileen Starsong
Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert
Phantasm is cool and, to my knowledge, one of the best glass cannons out there because of it's omgwtfbbq dps and ability to fit a decent buffer tank with shields.



ShockedLaughing

But yeah, Pants' the only pirate faction cruiser worth flying. Cynabal is okay as beefed up Ruppie, but doesn't come close.

I consider a buffer shield to be glass cannon since you don't get any regeneration worth noting from it.

I forgot about the Cynabal. It's pretty cool and not bad for pve stuff, but nothing special in PVP.

Navy Omen plated is also a beast. I know a guy that has 10k armor on his and it just won't die.

Fleet Issue Stabber is kinda cool as well...but you might as well fit a vaga as far as I am aware (not sure, don't fly them).

Kurt Gergard
Caldari
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.28 20:44:00 - [13]
 

And Gila? Any one flew it ?

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2009.01.28 20:45:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 28/01/2009 20:55:17
Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert
Fleet Issue Stabber is kinda cool as well...but you might as well fit a vaga as far as I am aware (not sure, don't fly them).

I hear the Navy Stabber is better on all counts than the Vaga except for EHP. Can't comment on the truth of this, but it's something I keep seeing. I've got the LPs for one of these things and Min Cruiser 5, so I occasionally check out new threads about them.

Originally by: Kurt Gergard
And Gila? Any one flew it ?

Yes. Gila irritates people because they don't know what it does well. First time I took it out early last year, T1-fit Rolling Eyes, I found a Navy Caracal that was reluctant to engage me on account of what I was in. tbh to this day I don't know which of the two ships is actually better between pilots of even skill (I'm sure he'd have wasted me with the fitting I had though.)

But you can go with hybrids or missiles on it as the main weapon system since it gets bonuses to both, it fits a good shield buffer (easily fits two LSE's), and has four lows for three damage mods and a DCU. If you don't have to fit any tackle you get four mid slots for shield extenders and hardeners after your speed mod, and since you get essentially double the Moa's starting shields to begin with your shield buffer is definitely respectable. You can sacrifice a hardener for a TP too if you want.

I do need to take a look at the fitting of this with T2 equipment and my current fitting skills though. It's been at least six months since I've really done anything other than lounge around Domain High Sec in it. AFAIK it will probably have a powergrid issue trying to fit T2 weapons and more than one T2 LSE.

Cade Morrigan
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.28 21:27:00 - [15]
 

The Gila has a CPU problem if you go with missiles and BCUs. I made a pretty fun L3 mission runner out of mine oh, 2 years ago, but from EFT it looks like the crappy cpu is still there.

Galactic Tycoon
Posted - 2009.01.28 21:40:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert
Originally by: Kaileen Starsong
Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert
Phantasm is cool and, to my knowledge, one of the best glass cannons out there because of it's omgwtfbbq dps and ability to fit a decent buffer tank with shields.



ShockedLaughing

But yeah, Pants' the only pirate faction cruiser worth flying. Cynabal is okay as beefed up Ruppie, but doesn't come close.

I consider a buffer shield to be glass cannon since you don't get any regeneration worth noting from it.

I forgot about the Cynabal. It's pretty cool and not bad for pve stuff, but nothing special in PVP.

Navy Omen plated is also a beast. I know a guy that has 10k armor on his and it just won't die.


Fleet Issue Stabber is kinda cool as well...but you might as well fit a vaga as far as I am aware (not sure, don't fly them).


Do you know his fitting?

Cletus Graeme
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.01.28 22:23:00 - [17]
 

What about the Navy Issue Osprey? It seems that CCP gave it an extra midslot as it now has 5 (same as the Navy Issue Caracal) but I'm sure that it had 4 before QR.


Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2009.01.28 23:24:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 28/01/2009 23:24:25
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
The Gila has a CPU problem if you go with missiles and BCUs. I made a pretty fun L3 mission runner out of mine oh, 2 years ago, but from EFT it looks like the crappy cpu is still there.

This is true. I screenshot all the fittings I make in-game that I consider workable so I have them stored for future reference (I only recently started documenting fits in EFT) and I just dug up my old Gila fit. Sure enough there's a co-processor on it.

Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
Posted - 2009.01.28 23:34:00 - [19]
 

Phantasm is awesum. Wink I use active tank on mine (crystals help a lot though).

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2009.01.29 00:19:00 - [20]
 

Ok, more detail now that I'm not posting from class. The faction crusiers, in order of awesomeness:

HACs in all but name:

Phantasm: we all know the Zealot is good, right? The Phantasm trades the often useless optimal bonus (for solo, since you're limited by tackle range) for a tracking bonus, adds another utility high for a neut, adds a 15m3 drone bay to help with the Zealot's frigate problems, and adds a much better tank. The only downside is the extreme cost, bring this down to HAC level and you have the perfect laser ship.

Omen Navy Issue: take a Zealot, trade the optimal bonus for a 25m3 drone bay to solve the Zealot's biggest problem as a solo ship. IMO, not as good an upgrade as the Phantasm, but still a very good choice. As a nice bonus, it's the same price as a Zealot.

Caracal Navy Issue: like the ONI, it's essentially a Cerberus with a drone bay. Same price, same damage output, same or better tank, and a decent speed/agility boost. Unless you're using the Cerb's full 250km range, the CNI is a good alternative. I'm not sure that it's really better, but it's definitely at least equal to the Cerberus.

Stabber Fleet Issue: no falloff bonus, but a 50% tracking bonus is just huge. I haven't flown it personally, but a corp-mate gets good results with a plated setup, using it as a faster Rupture with plenty of mids for tackle/ewar. So I'll trust him that it's a valid alternative to the Vagabond.

Flyable, but not too impressive (and probably not worth the cost):

Vigilant: well, first the good: tracking on a blaster ship is very good. The fourth mid that the Thorax and Deimos have been begging for is even better. Awesome black cammo paint makes it probably the best looking ship in the game. The only downside? Cost. A cruiser's speed and agility advantages are negated in a close-range slugging match, so it's very hard to justify spending the 200 million ISK for a Vigilant when a Brutix brings more dps and tank.

Cynabal: it's an inferior Fleet Stabber. Literally, the extra 25% damage bonus is negated by the Stabber's 5th gun, and the tracking bonus is only 7.5% instead of 10%. Even the drone bay is smaller, at 15m3 instead of 40m3. Oh yes, and just to add insult to injury, it's quite a bit slower. Sure, it does get two utility highs, but that's nowhere near enough to overcome the huge disadvantages. It's not so much that it sucks, after all, the Rupture is considered the best T1 cruiser, and the Cynabal is a better Rupture, but you really expect more for the price tag.

Vexor Navy Issue: it looks like a decent upgrade on paper, 5x guns, a more armor-focused layout than the Ishtar, and then you look at the drone bay: only 100m3. To get any dps upgrade from the Vexor, you have to go with 4x heavy drones, and then say goodbye to all of your versatility. Since for some bizarre reason the Navy Vexor never got a drone bay increase with the bandwidth changes, it's really a crippled ship. Sure, it's better than the Vexor, and not a terrible ship, but for the cost, just get an Ishtar.


Pure trash (aka "I wouldn't fly it even if it was free"):

Ashimmu: web bonus on a 3-mid ship? Check. Neut bonus on a ship with no grid for neuts or a cap booster? Check. No drones or dps? Check. With enough grid/cpu to actually fit something without using all your lows for RCU IIs, it might upgrade to "mediocre", but until then, it's a hangar ornament.

Gila: split weapon layout? Check. Nobody cares, because you don't have grid/cpu for a decent setup anway? Check. And as a Moa, it's not even pretty enough to be a hangar ornament.

"Tier-1" cruisers: they were made to be cheap newbie junk for FW, and it shows. Arguably they're worse than T1, and a joke compared to the HACs and good faction cruisers.


Galactic Tycoon
Posted - 2009.01.29 00:47:00 - [21]
 

Great post Merlin, but the dps for the Omen Navy Issue isn't as good as the Zealots?

If you know any links to good setups for the Omen Navy Issue and Phantasm that would be awesome. I've no idea how to fit them and I can't find a decent setup!

Either way I'm going for O.N.I or Phantasm.

Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
Posted - 2009.01.29 01:11:00 - [22]
 

navy omen looks like this, therefore it is the best.

Tractus Vesica
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.01.29 01:16:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Tractus Vesica on 29/01/2009 01:16:36
I'm saving Caldari Navy LP, for a Fleet Issue Caracal.

I already have a fleet issue hook bill.

loldongs III
Perkone
Posted - 2009.01.29 01:22:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert
Originally by: Kaileen Starsong
Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert
Phantasm is cool and, to my knowledge, one of the best glass cannons out there because of it's omgwtfbbq dps and ability to fit a decent buffer tank with shields.



ShockedLaughing

But yeah, Pants' the only pirate faction cruiser worth flying. Cynabal is okay as beefed up Ruppie, but doesn't come close.

I consider a buffer shield to be glass cannon since you don't get any regeneration worth noting from it.

I forgot about the Cynabal. It's pretty cool and not bad for pve stuff, but nothing special in PVP.

Navy Omen plated is also a beast. I know a guy that has 10k armor on his and it just won't die.

Fleet Issue Stabber is kinda cool as well...but you might as well fit a vaga as far as I am aware (not sure, don't fly them).


That's like calling a rokh a glass cannon.

Cletus Graeme
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.01.29 01:28:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Gneeznow
navy omen looks like this, therefore it is the best.


Not for me Crying or Very sad I still have premium content turned off cos it lags me out in big fights (2007 quad-core PC with 8800 GTS)

P.S Stop forum whoring and make another video puhhhleese! Cool

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.29 01:33:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Gneeznow
navy omen looks like this, therefore it is the best.


Black and white is nice, but Zealot is green :).

Merin got good points, the phantasm is nice, but terribly expencive. so Zealot or Navy Omen is better to start out in. Don't learn ho to fly thoose kinda ships in a Phantasm. Try a Harb first :).

Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
Posted - 2009.01.29 01:34:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Cletus Graeme
Originally by: Gneeznow
navy omen looks like this, therefore it is the best.


Not for me Crying or Very sad I still have premium content turned off cos it lags me out in big fights (2007 quad-core PC with 8800 GTS)

P.S Stop forum whoring and make another video puhhhleese! Cool


wtf my ancient AGP graphics card and 5 year old AMD processor works fine, you are doing something wrong there, stop downloading filth and update your drivers etc

also all the fraps I have collected over the last 6 months is me dying to falcons (falcons are overpowered you heard it here first)

Karrade Krise
Posted - 2009.01.29 01:37:00 - [28]
 

I found out personally that the Navy Omen is capable of r@ping Tanked Assault Frigs...Evil or Very Mad

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2009.01.29 01:57:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 29/01/2009 01:59:53
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon
Great post Merlin, but the dps for the Omen Navy Issue isn't as good as the Zealots?

If you know any links to good setups for the Omen Navy Issue and Phantasm that would be awesome. I've no idea how to fit them and I can't find a decent setup!

Either way I'm going for O.N.I or Phantasm.


Zealot Sansha Issue.


Oh, and the Navy Omen will out-dps the Zealot by a fair margin, gun dps is equal, but the Navy Omen gets drones.


Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Merin got good points, the phantasm is nice, but terribly expencive. so Zealot or Navy Omen is better to start out in. Don't learn ho to fly thoose kinda ships in a Phantasm. Try a Harb first :).


The Harbinger is a pretty bad choice, since it lacks the speed that makes a Phantasm so dangerous. It's a good ship, but it's much more focused on slugging it out with overwhelming dps and tank. If you want a "cheap" learning ship, the Zealot or Navy Omen are much better options. They're not shield tanked, but at least they give you the experience flying a fast laser ship.

loldongs III
Perkone
Posted - 2009.01.29 02:33:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 29/01/2009 01:59:53
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon
Great post Merlin, but the dps for the Omen Navy Issue isn't as good as the Zealots?

If you know any links to good setups for the Omen Navy Issue and Phantasm that would be awesome. I've no idea how to fit them and I can't find a decent setup!

Either way I'm going for O.N.I or Phantasm.


Zealot Sansha Issue.


Oh, and the Navy Omen will out-dps the Zealot by a fair margin, gun dps is equal, but the Navy Omen gets drones.


Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Merin got good points, the phantasm is nice, but terribly expencive. so Zealot or Navy Omen is better to start out in. Don't learn ho to fly thoose kinda ships in a Phantasm. Try a Harb first :).


The Harbinger is a pretty bad choice, since it lacks the speed that makes a Phantasm so dangerous. It's a good ship, but it's much more focused on slugging it out with overwhelming dps and tank. If you want a "cheap" learning ship, the Zealot or Navy Omen are much better options. They're not shield tanked, but at least they give you the experience flying a fast laser ship.


The harb can do it with the shield setup but its sort of limited
a) speed
b) ehp
c) damage
You sort of have to pick 2 or go with a mediocre mix.


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